| Huni's count 23:26 - Jun 7 with 6054 views | Zx1988 |
I don't do boxing, so help me out a little here please.
I'm seeing a lot of talk on social media about the count for Huni being particularly fast, or otherwise non-standard. Is there any credence to the claims?
Does a boxer merely have to be up before the count of 10, or do they need to be up, compus mentus, and ready to go? |  |
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| Huni's count on 07:38 - Jun 8 with 844 views | _clive_baker_ |
If you watch the clock he gets up 11-12 seconds after he hit the deck.
I thought it odd the ref didn’t appear to assess Huni, I think he could’ve taken a few seconds and let it go on tbh, I’m sure Wardley would be feeling a bit aggrieved if it were the other way around.
Nonetheless it was a big blow and I’m not sure Huni would’ve been too clever after that. We’ll never know though. |  | | |
| Huni's count on 07:39 - Jun 8 with 830 views | rkc123 |
| Huni's count on 01:40 - Jun 8 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
There’s a difference between a referee’s ten count and ten seconds though.
He beat the count by any usual boxing Metrics, especially giving the context of that fight. Look at the Fury knock down in LA on his comeback to Wilder as a pretty clear example of this and time that if you like.
Also the count isn’t actually an exact measure to count you out but for the ref to assess if the guy is ok to continue within that timeframe. This was a pretty harsh/early call. He hadn’t even been hurt previously, was up big and back to his feet, that usually allows you to be further assessed or continue. Let alone than when it’s a count as fast as that, he couldn’t wait to wave it off if we are being honest. [Post edited 8 Jun 2:07]
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He also just beat the count in actual seconds, timed from when he hit the canvas to was on his feet it was just under 10 seconds. It was a ridiculous decision, definitely one favouring the home fighter. Others have said you could see in Huni's eyes he wasn't fit to carry on, well the ref didn't look in his eyes as far as I could tell, also if a fighter beats the count they then usually get checked over by the ref quickly before he resumes the fight, he should have at least had that opportunity. [Post edited 8 Jun 7:41]
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| Huni's count on 07:45 - Jun 8 with 794 views | Blue_Heath |
No VAR helped. | | | |
| Huni's count on 07:50 - Jun 8 with 787 views | NthQldITFC |
My impression in real time was that it was a bit quick, but I haven't watched it back. |  |
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| Huni's count on 07:53 - Jun 8 with 781 views | NthQldITFC |
| Huni's count on 23:35 - Jun 7 by backwaywhen |
Refs decision, he took that bang on the chin , was knackered himself as was Wardley , ref took one look into his eyes to see he was not ready to carry on , I think had he done so Wardley would have finished him off ……note how Honi didn’t protest , he was gone IMO. |
Good point that Huni didn't protest, and that afterwards he was very gracious (endearingly so, much respect).
Maybe not in the rule book, but you'd also consider maybe what Wardley is capable of doing to an unprotected fighter - see Clarke. | |
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| Huni's count on 07:55 - Jun 8 with 778 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| Huni's count on 00:52 - Jun 8 by SitfcB |
Five seconds had gone before the ref even went over to him to count.
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Did not see the fight but from that clip it’s debatable if the count started after five seconds but the ref only counted to five. There was no evidence either of him looking into his eyes. |  | | |
| Huni's count on 08:04 - Jun 8 with 742 views | NthQldITFC |
| Huni's count on 01:40 - Jun 8 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
There’s a difference between a referee’s ten count and ten seconds though.
He beat the count by any usual boxing Metrics, especially giving the context of that fight. Look at the Fury knock down in LA on his comeback to Wilder as a pretty clear example of this and time that if you like.
Also the count isn’t actually an exact measure to count you out but for the ref to assess if the guy is ok to continue within that timeframe. This was a pretty harsh/early call. He hadn’t even been hurt previously, was up big and back to his feet, that usually allows you to be further assessed or continue. Let alone than when it’s a count as fast as that, he couldn’t wait to wave it off if we are being honest. [Post edited 8 Jun 2:07]
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Surely it has to be ten of your actual seconds, otherwise it's always going to be just at the mercy of anybody's agenda (in either direction). Like you, I 'felt' it was quick watching it live, but multiple sources have actually timed it and confirmed it was ten seconds. There can't be any more to it than that really. | |
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| Huni's count on 08:26 - Jun 8 with 712 views | backwaywhen |
| Huni's count on 01:06 - Jun 8 by Jrm_72 |
Ive followed boxing for 30years. Looked a hasty stoppage and a fast count to me. No doubt he wasn't all there still, but you often see benefit of doubt given to fighters winning on the card in the final round.
Don't get me wrong fighter safety is paramount, and I hate that in the UFC you can get away with reigning down fists on an unconscious fighter, but I think given the cards Huni had earnt the right to attempt to clinch out the round.
At the end of day, I've long made peace with boxing having more in common with pro-wrestling than with a legitimate sport.
The result required to appease all parties was a Wardley decisive win, and that's what happened. Everyone moves on happy and a little bit wealthier. [Post edited 8 Jun 1:08]
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He looked back at ringside to see what the count was at , then continues to 10 himself …..10 | | | |
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| Huni's count on 09:25 - Jun 8 with 627 views | Jrm_72 |
| Huni's count on 08:26 - Jun 8 by backwaywhen |
He looked back at ringside to see what the count was at , then continues to 10 himself …..10 |
It's actually 9 and then waves it off, but that's besides the point.
I think the points raised are more around the speed of the count, when the count starts, what number he picks up the count from (pretty sure he goes from 4 to 6 without counting 5), and if its 9 and a wave off (which is what I've seen), whether the referee has properly judged that Huni was in 'not fit state to continue'. He doesnt even look at him before deciding that.
Like I've said, the result fits the 'booking' for the fight and everyone leaves happy. This kind of thing really isn't rare in boxing for those of us that have watched more than just the most hyped of fights. | | | |
| Huni's count on 09:46 - Jun 8 with 575 views | Radlett_blue |
| Huni's count on 09:25 - Jun 8 by Jrm_72 |
It's actually 9 and then waves it off, but that's besides the point.
I think the points raised are more around the speed of the count, when the count starts, what number he picks up the count from (pretty sure he goes from 4 to 6 without counting 5), and if its 9 and a wave off (which is what I've seen), whether the referee has properly judged that Huni was in 'not fit state to continue'. He doesnt even look at him before deciding that.
Like I've said, the result fits the 'booking' for the fight and everyone leaves happy. This kind of thing really isn't rare in boxing for those of us that have watched more than just the most hyped of fights. |
Indeed, referees are in a difficult position as if they let a fighter continue when he can't really defend himself, he can suffer some serious damage as his opponent tries to finish the fight. You can't blame them for being cautious.
I've also seen fights when a boxer has beaten the count, but the referee judges he is in no fit state to continue & the fight is waved off. [Post edited 8 Jun 9:47]
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| Huni's count on 09:51 - Jun 8 with 573 views | starofanglia |
He was barely off his knees at 9 facing the other way. Needs to be on his feet, taking guard facing his opponent at 10. He wasn’t. Correct call. | | | |
| Huni's count on 10:10 - Jun 8 with 558 views | Herbivore |
| Huni's count on 01:27 - Jun 8 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Ah the boxing expert is in the room! Who would have thought someone who spends an entire year moaning about officials and making excuses rushes to the defense when it goes the Ipswich way! |
I know you've probably been dumbed down by being in America for so long, but surely you can still count to 10? It's not hard. |  |
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| Huni's count on 10:11 - Jun 8 with 555 views | Nutkins_Return |
| Huni's count on 23:38 - Jun 7 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Nonsense, learn boxing, it was the first time he’s been hurt in the fight and was up 8-1 or 7-2.
Watch say the Tyson Fury count vs Wilder on his comeback fight compared to this. Do a silent count if you like!
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So many people banging on about 10 seconds. The referee doesn't HAVE to get to 10. If the fighter is seriously hurt it's his job not to send him off to be out in a coma. Ref got this bang on. Huni was dominating that fight but he didn't know where he was. Wardley would have put him in hospital if he'd been sent back out.
Referee has done his job and saved Huni from serious injury. This is how refs should be doing it. The sport can't be like the 80/90s. It's dangerous enough.
Zero complaints from Huni or his camp. Huni is clapping at the end and has his health to go again.
Note after the ref stops it Huni actually pats the ref in acknowledgment. If Huni knew one thing by that point he couldn't fight on. [Post edited 8 Jun 10:17]
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| Huni's count on 10:12 - Jun 8 with 551 views | Herbivore |
| Huni's count on 01:40 - Jun 8 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
There’s a difference between a referee’s ten count and ten seconds though.
He beat the count by any usual boxing Metrics, especially giving the context of that fight. Look at the Fury knock down in LA on his comeback to Wilder as a pretty clear example of this and time that if you like.
Also the count isn’t actually an exact measure to count you out but for the ref to assess if the guy is ok to continue within that timeframe. This was a pretty harsh/early call. He hadn’t even been hurt previously, was up big and back to his feet, that usually allows you to be further assessed or continue. Let alone than when it’s a count as fast as that, he couldn’t wait to wave it off if we are being honest. [Post edited 8 Jun 2:07]
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The count IS to count you out. If you aren't fully up by the count of 10 you are counted out. The ref only assesses if you're fit to continue if you are up by the count of 10. Using the Fury v Wilder fight is a bad example as pretty much everyone felt that was a very slow count and Fury was lucky. | |
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| Huni's count on 10:19 - Jun 8 with 538 views | PhilTWTD |
| Huni's count on 00:56 - Jun 8 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
What did he start the count at? Anyone that knows the sport at all would say this was a pretty fast count. He waved it off without even checking if he was clear eyed as Huni wasn’t looking at him but got back to his feet in time.
Normal procedure would be to touch gloves, ask if he’s ok and then let it go on if he feels he was ok to do so. That didn’t happen but I get plenty of fans that might have watched this don’t often watch the sport. |
I'm no boxing expert, but I've read a few people elsewhere posting that the count is started out of the ring by the time-keeper and the referee, having made sure the other boxer is in his corner, then picks it up, which is what appears to happen and it does appear to get to 10 with Huni looking distinctly wobbly and still in the process of getting to his feet.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |
| Huni's count on 10:19 - Jun 8 with 530 views | Smoresy |
| Huni's count on 09:25 - Jun 8 by Jrm_72 |
It's actually 9 and then waves it off, but that's besides the point.
I think the points raised are more around the speed of the count, when the count starts, what number he picks up the count from (pretty sure he goes from 4 to 6 without counting 5), and if its 9 and a wave off (which is what I've seen), whether the referee has properly judged that Huni was in 'not fit state to continue'. He doesnt even look at him before deciding that.
Like I've said, the result fits the 'booking' for the fight and everyone leaves happy. This kind of thing really isn't rare in boxing for those of us that have watched more than just the most hyped of fights. |
It looks clear to me from the video that the ref syncs with the timekeeper at 4, then takes over at 5 (the first hand gesture he makes - all digits splayed). He waves off the second after 9 when Huni is rising to two feet.
On NthQ's point, I had always thought (but never checked) that 10 seconds from hitting the canvas was the rule for determining KO, to be ready to fight again, but refs have long run their own scripts in how quickly or slowly they decide to count. Maybe discretion is written into the rules, I'm not sure.
I've seen the glacial count in the Fury v Wilder fight mentioned - imo this was a better example of a count gone rogue, so plodding was the pace that night. Would agree this was a home crowd count but I'd also wager it was closer to a strict count than many often are, whether that's a good thing or not.
I'm also not convinced that Huni's camp travelled here happy to lose (on the idea that this outcome pleased everyone). He gave a great account of himself on shorter notice but that would have been a huge win for him. Now it's Wardley who perhaps has the title shot, though he may be better off taking another top 12 opponent.
*For clarity, I would have liked Huni to have been afforded a slightly slower count or more thorough assessment, given his position in the fight at the time. [Post edited 8 Jun 10:30]
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| Huni's count on 10:21 - Jun 8 with 524 views | Herbivore |
| Huni's count on 10:19 - Jun 8 by PhilTWTD |
I'm no boxing expert, but I've read a few people elsewhere posting that the count is started out of the ring by the time-keeper and the referee, having made sure the other boxer is in his corner, then picks it up, which is what appears to happen and it does appear to get to 10 with Huni looking distinctly wobbly and still in the process of getting to his feet.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Yes, the timekeeper at ringside begins the count while the ref makes sure the other fighter has gone to a neutral corner and the ref then picks up the count from there. | |
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| Huni's count on 10:53 - Jun 8 with 477 views | Mullet |
Just protecting his fighter and rightly so. I think Joeys got a bit excited last night reading the the thread.
I also thought not only was Huni superb, but his trainer was brilliant with his mix of strategy and motivation. It’s a cruel sport when you see someone lay down a beating like that and still lose |  |
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| Huni's count on 11:09 - Jun 8 with 465 views | smithy69 |
Anyone who says it’s a quick count or a bad stoppage - has never boxed or been around boxing.
The biggest tell for me is the boxers reaction. When I boxed - I knew if I was done - and the reaction is always a natural one. If it was a bad stoppage you would react. If it was a good one you simply didn’t. The boxer never reacted - and is stumbling backwards with unsteady legs when up after it’s waved off
Someone on the outside of the ring starts the count as soon as he hits the floor. The ref then probably takes up the count when it’s at 5 - after he has moved the other boxer to a neutral corner
The boxer was up at 9 - but clearly not able to fight or protect himself. The fact that neither him nor his corner made any kind of deal over the stoppage says it all . The ref has a job to protect the fighters - and there is no way he was in any position to carry on
Once called off - he is stumbling backwards - his legs have gone [Post edited 8 Jun 11:23]
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| Huni's count on 11:11 - Jun 8 with 452 views | smithy69 |
| Huni's count on 00:56 - Jun 8 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
What did he start the count at? Anyone that knows the sport at all would say this was a pretty fast count. He waved it off without even checking if he was clear eyed as Huni wasn’t looking at him but got back to his feet in time.
Normal procedure would be to touch gloves, ask if he’s ok and then let it go on if he feels he was ok to do so. That didn’t happen but I get plenty of fans that might have watched this don’t often watch the sport. |
Just watch his legs once waved off. He’s all over the place | | | |
| Huni's count on 11:15 - Jun 8 with 441 views | Jrm_72 |
| Huni's count on 09:46 - Jun 8 by Radlett_blue |
Indeed, referees are in a difficult position as if they let a fighter continue when he can't really defend himself, he can suffer some serious damage as his opponent tries to finish the fight. You can't blame them for being cautious.
I've also seen fights when a boxer has beaten the count, but the referee judges he is in no fit state to continue & the fight is waved off. [Post edited 8 Jun 9:47]
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Yes, I completely agree. As I mentioned in an earlier post, you've got to protect the fighters first and foremost. I referenced the UFC as being ridiculous, where fighters are encouraged to hammerfist an unconscious fighter in the head until the referee physically pulls them off. I wouldn't want to see that.
An important factor that I've just discovered is this was in round 10/12 not 10/10 as I originally thought (probably as not a 'proper' title on the line). This gives the referee some cover too - it's only really the final round that the "benefit of the doubt if winnning" rule applies to knockdowns.
Carl Froch vs Jermain Taylor has just come to me as a good example of that actually. Taylor is up by miles in the 12, but has gassed and Froch spends most of the 12 battering him round the ring. Referee lets this go until he really has no option to stop it; Taylor was only 15secs away from holding on. If it had happened in any other round he would have been stopped minutes earlier.
Think probably on balance it's fine. The ref hasn't helped himself with a quicker than needed count and waving it off without a proper look. I think if a more steady count had seen Huni get up at 8, the referee take a proper look at him and then wave it off, there would be far fewer complaints. Optics I guess, but the result is the same so doesn't matter all that much in the grand scheme of things. [Post edited 8 Jun 11:20]
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| Huni's count on 11:28 - Jun 8 with 411 views | WeWereZombies |
| Huni's count on 07:45 - Jun 8 by Blue_Heath |
No VAR helped. |
Maybe but they could at least have used goal line technology. |  |
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| Huni's count on 11:38 - Jun 8 with 402 views | Jrm_72 |
| Huni's count on 10:19 - Jun 8 by Smoresy |
It looks clear to me from the video that the ref syncs with the timekeeper at 4, then takes over at 5 (the first hand gesture he makes - all digits splayed). He waves off the second after 9 when Huni is rising to two feet.
On NthQ's point, I had always thought (but never checked) that 10 seconds from hitting the canvas was the rule for determining KO, to be ready to fight again, but refs have long run their own scripts in how quickly or slowly they decide to count. Maybe discretion is written into the rules, I'm not sure.
I've seen the glacial count in the Fury v Wilder fight mentioned - imo this was a better example of a count gone rogue, so plodding was the pace that night. Would agree this was a home crowd count but I'd also wager it was closer to a strict count than many often are, whether that's a good thing or not.
I'm also not convinced that Huni's camp travelled here happy to lose (on the idea that this outcome pleased everyone). He gave a great account of himself on shorter notice but that would have been a huge win for him. Now it's Wardley who perhaps has the title shot, though he may be better off taking another top 12 opponent.
*For clarity, I would have liked Huni to have been afforded a slightly slower count or more thorough assessment, given his position in the fight at the time. [Post edited 8 Jun 10:30]
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Just picking up on if Huni would be happy to lose. It's kind of the art of "matchmaking", and Warren has decades of experience in padding his fighters' records to prolong everyone's paydays - culminating in the final payday where they lose to the genuine "big cheese" of the division. See Naseem Hamed, Jonny Nelson, Ricky Hatton (before he left Warren post-Tsyzu fight), Joe Calzaghe (for the bulk of his career before again he left), Amir Khan, Audley Harrison. The aim of the game is to match up with someone who is just good enough to preserve your fighter's ranking, will put on a good show, but won't spoil the grand plan by beating them.
Huni took the fight on 5 weeks' notice. Nobody takes a fight on that notice with any notion of winning. In wrestling parlance, Huni is a "jobber to the stars" - beats the "jobbers" beneath him, loses to the guys the promoter wants to push to the top of the card. His script would have been to make Wardley work, lose valiantly, and there will be more paydays like this ahead.
I remember the BBC did an article years ago about journeyman boxers (jobbers), which said if they don't follow the script, they don't get booked/can't earn a living. Same with fighters the same level as Huni - look at what happened to Andy Ruiz vs Joshua. Hardly been good for his career, causing the upset was it? | | | |
| Huni's count on 11:57 - Jun 8 with 360 views | textbackup |
| Huni's count on 01:27 - Jun 8 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Ah the boxing expert is in the room! Who would have thought someone who spends an entire year moaning about officials and making excuses rushes to the defense when it goes the Ipswich way! |
Expert in everything he talks about.
Impressive really |  |
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