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Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 16:15 - Jul 1 by MattinLondon
The old free speech debate throws up a lot of hypocrisy on both sides of this debate.
Not so long ago a lot of people on the right were angry because the wife of a councillor lost the plot on Twitter and called for hotels housing asylum seekers to be burnt down - she actively encouraged behaviour which could have killed innocent people and she was righty jailed.
Now the same people who were defending her are now calling on Bob Vylan to face charges and possible serve jail time. And a lot of people defending his chant etc were defending that woman being jailed.
It’s at best hypocrisy, at worst gross double standards (think both are different).
It’s easy to dismiss his chant as that of middle class people just trying to be hip and jump on the Palestinian cause but if those images are shown to people over there, they might well encounsge more violence. So I think that Bob Vylan should face sanction.
But I don’t think that he’s words were antisemitic - they were certainly anti-Israeli government as well as anti IDF but that’s not the same as collective Jew hating. I know that the head Rabbi thinks so but o think he’s wrong.
The real victims of this debacle are (again) the Palestinian people. Are we talking about their continued murder, their continued suffering? Yes, but not as much as the chatter surrounding an ill-advised chant. A chant which will simply allow the Israeli PM to play the victim and allow him and his evil cabinet more justification in their actions. Shame, just a shame.
My opinion is that the cases are quite different, in that one was directed at vulnerable people already under significant threat at the time, whilst the other was a reaction to mass slaughter carried out by one of the most advanced militaries in the world with tacit consent from our own government.
Lucy Connolly's sentence was ridiculous however, and only served to create a martyr for those who would destroy free speech for all but those who agree with them given the chance. Court sanctioned community work with refugees would have been a far more beneficial sentence to have been handed out, both for her and society.
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Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 16:45 - Jul 1 with 2381 views
They, like you, are cleary trying to make it something that it's not. Just as the Daily Fail did yesterday. It's disgusting, you know exactly what you're doing, and you should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself.
He won't be Just the board police/board elite/usual crowd ganging up against him. Awful logic being used
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Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 16:47 - Jul 1 with 2374 views
Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 16:31 - Jul 1 by BloomBlue
Why are both different?
She called for the death or people, he called for the death of people.
She encouraged others, he did the same.
Her comment could result in the death of innocent people. You're assumed every one in the IDF is guilty. Somewhere taken as hostages, he is calling for the death of those.
She removed the X comment, he has said he stands by the comment.
She was jailed which if you believe in the law of the land that was correct (personally I thought the prison length was extreme). But what he said isn't any different, they both called for the death of people.
I didn’t say that they were different.
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Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 17:05 - Jul 1 with 2304 views
Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 16:39 - Jul 1 by Blueschev
My opinion is that the cases are quite different, in that one was directed at vulnerable people already under significant threat at the time, whilst the other was a reaction to mass slaughter carried out by one of the most advanced militaries in the world with tacit consent from our own government.
Lucy Connolly's sentence was ridiculous however, and only served to create a martyr for those who would destroy free speech for all but those who agree with them given the chance. Court sanctioned community work with refugees would have been a far more beneficial sentence to have been handed out, both for her and society.
The other difference was one was actionable (and was), the other is a threat which was impossible to act upon.
That's the difference when it comes to sentencing hate speech, and why Lucy Connelly got a custodial sentence.
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Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 17:28 - Jul 1 with 2238 views
Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 09:58 - Jul 1 by lowhouseblue
isn't that the point he's making though. art is / can be political, but to be so it needs to challenge and cause people see something fresh, rather than just incite a crowd into a one line chant?
I think you must be misremembering a supposed golden age when the political utterances of pop stars (as opposed to folk singers) was anything but rather simplistic.
[Post edited 1 Jul 17:39]
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Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 17:52 - Jul 1 with 2156 views
Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 17:39 - Jul 1 by DJR
I think you must be misremembering a supposed golden age when the political utterances of pop stars (as opposed to folk singers) was anything but rather simplistic.
[Post edited 1 Jul 17:39]
Well, where would we be without this hey, Thatcher Gorbachev pffft.
Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 16:39 - Jul 1 by Blueschev
My opinion is that the cases are quite different, in that one was directed at vulnerable people already under significant threat at the time, whilst the other was a reaction to mass slaughter carried out by one of the most advanced militaries in the world with tacit consent from our own government.
Lucy Connolly's sentence was ridiculous however, and only served to create a martyr for those who would destroy free speech for all but those who agree with them given the chance. Court sanctioned community work with refugees would have been a far more beneficial sentence to have been handed out, both for her and society.
Although a former Supreme Court judge was cited on a podcast I was listening to today saying it was totally reasonable and proportionate. Sorry I can’t recall their name but it was on a Slow Newscast about Truss and her lurch to the lunatic far right fringes.
I find the false narrative around her sentence by the right wing revolting too. It basically reveals that she is one of them, and they are all a glass too many of sauv blank away from doing the same is how it reads to me.
The censorship of BV and Kneecap seem to have bolstered them far more than harmed them. I guess Rod Stewart didn’t get censored because his support for mass death and suffering was implicit.
Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 16:31 - Jul 1 by BloomBlue
Why are both different?
She called for the death or people, he called for the death of people.
She encouraged others, he did the same.
Her comment could result in the death of innocent people. You're assumed every one in the IDF is guilty. Somewhere taken as hostages, he is calling for the death of those.
She removed the X comment, he has said he stands by the comment.
She was jailed which if you believe in the law of the land that was correct (personally I thought the prison length was extreme). But what he said isn't any different, they both called for the death of people.
Feck me. You genuinely think wanting refugees burning to death in hotels is the same as wanting to kill soldiers murdering people queuing for food?
There are some extraordinary mentals leaps, and then there's this. Absolute shame on you.
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 19:53 - Jul 1 with 2005 views
Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 17:56 - Jul 1 by Mullet
Although a former Supreme Court judge was cited on a podcast I was listening to today saying it was totally reasonable and proportionate. Sorry I can’t recall their name but it was on a Slow Newscast about Truss and her lurch to the lunatic far right fringes.
I find the false narrative around her sentence by the right wing revolting too. It basically reveals that she is one of them, and they are all a glass too many of sauv blank away from doing the same is how it reads to me.
The censorship of BV and Kneecap seem to have bolstered them far more than harmed them. I guess Rod Stewart didn’t get censored because his support for mass death and suffering was implicit.
There was a lot of pretty dishonest euphemisms around it - newspaper articles not quoting what she actually said/did, people claiming she'd been prosecuted for "hurty words" etc.
Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 14:26 - Jul 1 by leitrimblue
Anybody else committing genocide and murdering thousands of unarmed women and children
So if we see things your way, anyone calling for the deaths of Nazis during the holocaust were not calling fir the deaths of murderous scumbags committing genocide on an industrial scale but where instead calling for the deaths of Christians as they were all Christians?
Excellent mental gymnastics
Is he now trying to conflate criticism of the IDF with criticism of all Jews? Disgusting. Is there any limit to his disingenuity? (rhetorical question). I was tempted to take him off ignore as it’s making the thread unreadable, but if that’s the level of dishonesty I won’t bother.
“1. I think politicians should let the law take its course and avoid comments on individual cases where charges might be possible.”
Agreed. It’s ridiculous that this is taking up the time of the House. The Glastonbury Fedtival can police it if they don’t want him back. The CPS can prosecute if they think a crime has been committed. There’s no reason for politicians to get involved unless they’re playing populist politics, which we all should have had enough of.
Feck me. You genuinely think wanting refugees burning to death in hotels is the same as wanting to kill soldiers murdering people queuing for food?
There are some extraordinary mentals leaps, and then there's this. Absolute shame on you.
Is it not the same thing as far as the law is concerned though i.e. hate speech for advocating killing doesn't take into account who you are issuing the death threats too - like if you murder a paedo you'd get the same sentence as if you murder mother teresa?
Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 23:05 - Jul 1 by Trequartista
Is it not the same thing as far as the law is concerned though i.e. hate speech for advocating killing doesn't take into account who you are issuing the death threats too - like if you murder a paedo you'd get the same sentence as if you murder mother teresa?
Why on earth would you make this distinction? Do you think you're being clever whilst belittling people's lives?
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 23:17 - Jul 1 with 1481 views
Bob Vylan at Glastonbury.. on 00:23 - Jul 2 by Swailsey
Oh really? I wasn’t aware he had that background, assuming we are talking about the same person. I thought he was well thought of generally?
Now I know what you’re talking about, can verify SB’s comments - unfortunately I was a recipient of some of the aforementioned PMs etc. A lot of other stuff similarly not widely seen as late at night & quickly deleted. Kids read the site.
A thread like this will always be divisive and positions can become heated. Even trading barbs can be ok if kept in check. However, a line was crossed with one particular comment. I just couldn't see what it brought to the debate. It was completely out of kilter with the points being made. I politely asked the poster to consider editing/removing the particular comment and was told to screw myself. I'm not and never have been the board Police (whoever/whatever that may mean), but the comment was unacceptable and I didn't particularly care for the comment towards me. It seems nature has taken its course and a cooling off period is in place. This feels about the right conclusion to me.
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