| The Boats keep coming 20:35 - Aug 13 with 4566 views | onceablue |
Regardless of the 1 in 1 out Labour policy Gimmick that has absolutely no chance of working
1600 people have arrived in 4 days in 26 boats
If the sea remains calm this will be the norm certainly for August/september
Macron has completely mugged Starmer off. No wonder he was kissing and hugging Kier
The French want rid of the Migrant camps and won’t be happy until they are all gone.
The only thing that will stop the boats is the Weather.
The current Government or who ever is in charge needs to come clean and admit there is no answer
It won’t be long until we see 100,000 a year arriving by this method
I totally get it that everyone wants to live in a perceived Civilised society but how the hell do we pay for it
The Tories created a 22 billion black hole over 14 years the Labour Party have created a 50 billion black hole in 12 months!!!!!!
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| The Boats keep coming on 11:42 - Aug 14 with 565 views | Ely_Blue |
| The Boats keep coming on 20:48 - Aug 13 by Pinewoodblue |
We have no authority to stop the boats leaving France it is out of our control. |
Well what reform and the Brexit gang will not tell you about is the Dublin agreement! |  |
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| The Boats keep coming on 11:46 - Aug 14 with 548 views | RamRob |
| The Boats keep coming on 10:02 - Aug 14 by Mullet |
That’s a pathetic cop out. If someone says racist stuff, not calling it out is a moral failure. It’s atypical tactic of the racists to pretend their views are valid. We used to shoot Nazis not elect them.
“Valid concerns” being wrapped up with genuine issues are not worth tolerating. If people can express problems without racism that’s a different discussion entirely. But allowing the bigots to hide behind that, isn’t acceptable.
I can’t see anyone happy with the current situation, but we don’t need another Moseley or Powell these days. |
Pathetic cop-out? - this is precisely my point, you've responded to my bland comment by talking about calling out racism and quoting a term I didn't use. You've assumed my morality and made a judgment on what you thought I meant rather than what I actually wrote.
I agree that calling out people being racist is morally correct, but the leap in logic in assuming someone is racist because they think too many migrants are arriving in such a short space of time without adequate services to support them is surely going a bit too far. Don't dismiss the underlying problem here. Plus this is Britain, surely we're allowed to moan about it, just as much as you can moan about others people's opinions.
It's the "you can't have an opinion because I think you're racist" attitude that I can't stand. |  |
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| The Boats keep coming on 11:48 - Aug 14 with 541 views | BlueNomad |
In 2023, the UK spent £4.3 billion on supporting refugees and asylum seekers within the UK, which was 0.58% of its Gross National Income (GNI), according to ReliefWeb. This spending includes costs associated with housing, food, and other forms of support. While this figure represents a significant portion of the UK's aid budget, it's important to note that this spending is classified as "in-donor refugee costs" and is distinct from other forms of overseas development funding.
To think that so many people, including the OP, think we should behave differently than other European countries, including Turkey, who spend far more.
I would ask whether he thinks Afghanistan, Iran, Syria and Sudan are safe places? They are the four countries who provide the most asylum seekers. [Post edited 14 Aug 11:54]
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| The Boats keep coming on 12:33 - Aug 14 with 471 views | Mullet |
| The Boats keep coming on 11:17 - Aug 14 by lowhouseblue |
jeez, again your only response to someone who disagrees with you is to call them names and attempt to delegitimise them rather than engage with what they have posted. do you have any response to the arguments i've made? - rather than just labelling me as a bad person. 'intellectualise' and 'academic stuff' only works as an insult if you can actually counter what has been said.
yes i posted about the need for a national child grooming enquiry. that was something that you opposed but has now been accepted by the government. you will remember that my argument was that the grooming gang scandal was one of the greatest state failures in modern times involving state agencies - councils, the police, social services - failing to protect very vulnerable children despite thousands of children being raped and abused. my call was to have an enquiry so that public bodies and public servants could be fully held to account. if you think i posted anything other than that, or made any other claims then please do post a link. again can you engage with my argument - which is also now the government' position - or do you just want to use the issue in an attempt to point score?
but there's a pattern here. we have people online generally - and some on here specifically - who refuse to accept that any views other than their own can ever be held legitimately. if someone disagrees with them it isn't that that person has different views or experiences or values - it can only ever be that that person is flawed: they are idiots, or racists or far right or fascists. so what we end up with is a refusal to discuss ideas or engage in constructive argument and instead you attack anyone who disagrees with you, label them and claim that they are bad people and unworthy of debate. the systematic attempt to delegitimise disagreement and just to claim that anyone with different views to your is so deeply flawed as not to merit debate is an intellectual dead end pursued by people with no concept of critical thinking. you can of course label that as 'pseudo intellectualising' if it enables you to avoid engaging with it. |
I’ve not called you a single name there. |  |
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| The Boats keep coming on 12:35 - Aug 14 with 462 views | Mullet |
| The Boats keep coming on 11:46 - Aug 14 by RamRob |
Pathetic cop-out? - this is precisely my point, you've responded to my bland comment by talking about calling out racism and quoting a term I didn't use. You've assumed my morality and made a judgment on what you thought I meant rather than what I actually wrote.
I agree that calling out people being racist is morally correct, but the leap in logic in assuming someone is racist because they think too many migrants are arriving in such a short space of time without adequate services to support them is surely going a bit too far. Don't dismiss the underlying problem here. Plus this is Britain, surely we're allowed to moan about it, just as much as you can moan about others people's opinions.
It's the "you can't have an opinion because I think you're racist" attitude that I can't stand. |
There was nothing bland about it. If people say and do racist things we can’t make that equivalence with them as just “concerns” - that’s what lead to Farage being a household name.
I’ve made no assumptions at all about you, which is pretty telling. | |
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| The Boats keep coming on 12:40 - Aug 14 with 447 views | noggin |
"I totally get it that everyone wants to live in a perceived Civilised society but how the hell do we pay for it"
Same way we paid to destabilise the places they came from? |  |
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| The Boats keep coming on 12:56 - Aug 14 with 398 views | RamRob |
| The Boats keep coming on 12:35 - Aug 14 by Mullet |
There was nothing bland about it. If people say and do racist things we can’t make that equivalence with them as just “concerns” - that’s what lead to Farage being a household name.
I’ve made no assumptions at all about you, which is pretty telling. |
Again, gone off on your own tangent.
I never said you made an assumption about me.
How is it telling? | |
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| The Boats keep coming on 12:59 - Aug 14 with 375 views | Mullet |
| The Boats keep coming on 12:56 - Aug 14 by RamRob |
Again, gone off on your own tangent.
I never said you made an assumption about me.
How is it telling? |
“You’ve assumed my morality…”etc
You don’t seem to know what you’ve even posted. Perhaps when you’re calmer you’ll apologise too eh? | |
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| The Boats keep coming on 13:09 - Aug 14 with 346 views | Swansea_Blue |
| The Boats keep coming on 10:15 - Aug 14 by Radlett_blue |
We have over 100,000 people claiming asylum in the UK each year & this steadily rises. So does the number arriving in small boats (over 37,000 last year).
The big problem is that, while IMO many of these are spurious claims, these still have to be processed, with asylum seekers using human rights lawyers & well versed in what sort of story is likely to bring success. Then appeals, etc. The cost of this is now well over £5bn each year and rising sharply. This should not be a party political issue - the Tories failed to deal with it despite 14 years in power & despite his promises, Starmer also has no answers. People are frustrated with this & hence they turn to Reform. |
The majority of asylum claims are successful, so the sooner we can process them the quicker they can start working and contributing taxes. A large reason for the escalating bill is the breakdown of the system (along with all other public services after 15+ years of austerity). Unfortunately, refugees aren’t going to disappear. There are far too many conflicts for that and climate change impacts are only going to make matters worse. |  |
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| The Boats keep coming on 13:09 - Aug 14 with 342 views | Libero |
| The Boats keep coming on 21:46 - Aug 13 by Swansea_Blue |
They’re not entitled to benefits |
There is absolutely no point giving these people any objective facts, they care not for them. [Post edited 14 Aug 13:10]
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| The Boats keep coming on 13:12 - Aug 14 with 330 views | Herbivore |
| The Boats keep coming on 11:17 - Aug 14 by lowhouseblue |
jeez, again your only response to someone who disagrees with you is to call them names and attempt to delegitimise them rather than engage with what they have posted. do you have any response to the arguments i've made? - rather than just labelling me as a bad person. 'intellectualise' and 'academic stuff' only works as an insult if you can actually counter what has been said.
yes i posted about the need for a national child grooming enquiry. that was something that you opposed but has now been accepted by the government. you will remember that my argument was that the grooming gang scandal was one of the greatest state failures in modern times involving state agencies - councils, the police, social services - failing to protect very vulnerable children despite thousands of children being raped and abused. my call was to have an enquiry so that public bodies and public servants could be fully held to account. if you think i posted anything other than that, or made any other claims then please do post a link. again can you engage with my argument - which is also now the government' position - or do you just want to use the issue in an attempt to point score?
but there's a pattern here. we have people online generally - and some on here specifically - who refuse to accept that any views other than their own can ever be held legitimately. if someone disagrees with them it isn't that that person has different views or experiences or values - it can only ever be that that person is flawed: they are idiots, or racists or far right or fascists. so what we end up with is a refusal to discuss ideas or engage in constructive argument and instead you attack anyone who disagrees with you, label them and claim that they are bad people and unworthy of debate. the systematic attempt to delegitimise disagreement and just to claim that anyone with different views to your is so deeply flawed as not to merit debate is an intellectual dead end pursued by people with no concept of critical thinking. you can of course label that as 'pseudo intellectualising' if it enables you to avoid engaging with it. |
People engage in debate on here all the time, it's just most of them now refuse to engage in debate with you. There are reasons for that and it's not that they aren't capable of debate. |  |
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| The Boats keep coming on 13:19 - Aug 14 with 300 views | lowhouseblue |
| The Boats keep coming on 12:33 - Aug 14 by Mullet |
I’ve not called you a single name there. |
and that's all you got from my post? your post included:
"your swing to the far right narrative."
"You can pseudo intellectualise"
"the place you come from is pretty clear."
"dishonest"
rather than engage with the arguments posted you belittle and insult the poster. you're not quite as bad as hebivore, but if ever you're inclined to bemoan the simplistic divisiveness of social media and online discussion just remember that's you. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The Boats keep coming on 13:23 - Aug 14 with 280 views | reusersfreekicks |
| The Boats keep coming on 11:32 - Aug 14 by marcus1642 |
This isn't about cheap labour. It's not about illegal immigration. What we have to look at is the total net migration. It's huge. 1.3 million immigrants on universal credit. Huge. So what is the end game here? What are successive governments trying to achieve by allowing unchecked immigration both legal and illegal? But don't worry there're all coming to a hotel near you to fully integrate into our society. Free accommodation, free phones, free gambling money and free to work in the gig economy (tax free of course) Clearly the ruling classes have a plan for the Country. Figured it out yet? |
Full of myths and b/s
Try facts |  | | |
| The Boats keep coming on 13:25 - Aug 14 with 273 views | lowhouseblue |
| The Boats keep coming on 13:12 - Aug 14 by Herbivore |
People engage in debate on here all the time, it's just most of them now refuse to engage in debate with you. There are reasons for that and it's not that they aren't capable of debate. |
so then respond to the points i have made in this thread? show up my incapability with your dazzling prowess.
but of course you don't / can't do that. you don't engage in discussion but you disparage the poster. you don't debate so all you do is try to delegitimise anyone who challenges you. it's pathetic. you are a pebble of intellectual fragility rattling loudly in a tin of utmost certainty.  | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The Boats keep coming on 13:25 - Aug 14 with 273 views | Mullet |
| The Boats keep coming on 13:19 - Aug 14 by lowhouseblue |
and that's all you got from my post? your post included:
"your swing to the far right narrative."
"You can pseudo intellectualise"
"the place you come from is pretty clear."
"dishonest"
rather than engage with the arguments posted you belittle and insult the poster. you're not quite as bad as hebivore, but if ever you're inclined to bemoan the simplistic divisiveness of social media and online discussion just remember that's you. |
That isn’t name calling that’s simply being descriptive - we aren’t all at fault for what you post. It’s odd that two people on here are complaining about being called out for what they write and blame us.
Honestly, I’ve found your turn in recent months astonishing and some of what you post disgusting. You’re not even very good at the game you try and play and get uppity when you lose at it. | |
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| The Boats keep coming on 13:31 - Aug 14 with 239 views | lowhouseblue |
| The Boats keep coming on 13:25 - Aug 14 by Mullet |
That isn’t name calling that’s simply being descriptive - we aren’t all at fault for what you post. It’s odd that two people on here are complaining about being called out for what they write and blame us.
Honestly, I’ve found your turn in recent months astonishing and some of what you post disgusting. You’re not even very good at the game you try and play and get uppity when you lose at it. |
"That isn’t name calling that’s simply being descriptive" - come on now, you're not six.
"I’ve found your turn in recent months astonishing and some of what you post disgusting." but you say that without examples. you are free to challenge what someone posts when they post it - prove them wrong - vague generalisations are just a cheap insult.
"You’re not even very good at the game you try and play and get uppity when you lose at it." your response for being called out for posting insults is, guess what, to post more insults. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The Boats keep coming on 13:37 - Aug 14 with 222 views | reusersfreekicks |
| The Boats keep coming on 09:51 - Aug 14 by lowhouseblue |
agree with you about brexit being central to this. it has changed the pattern of immigration completely. not only has it increased the level of net immigration to historically unprecedented levels - tripling it after 2000 compared to pre-2016 - but it has changed the character of the migrants - we now have a much higher proportion who are unskilled and unqualified and many more who are economically inactive. pre-brexit the economic benefit from immigration was significantly positive, we now have a high proportion of low skilled migrants who are estimated to be a long-term net draw on public funds. the loss of the dublin agreement has also been a negative for the uk.
but i don't agree with the second part of your post which is just an attempt to frame any debate about the current level of immigration, and opposition to the current level, as 'racist', 'idiots', 'far right', 'propoganda', 'fascism' etc. it's the usual trick to delegitimise views on the current level of immigration that you disagree with rather than engage with those views. you quote claimed polling - well according to ipsos 2/3rds think current immigration is too high. if we want to avoid farage we need to engage with those people rather than try to paint the majority of the public as racists and idiots. |
Do you have evidence for the net draw assertion
You seem to think all anti-immigration supporters are well informed people deeply impacted by immigration.
The town I live in has hardly any Immigants based here yet a high proportion of the people I meet in pubs/bars trot out the same old myths and mis-information. The level of racial prejudice is very much on the increase.
Your efforts to give Farage et al legitimacy mirrors what you did for Trump.
Long words don't hide true agendas [Post edited 14 Aug 13:41]
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| The Boats keep coming on 13:41 - Aug 14 with 201 views | Pinewoodblue |
| The Boats keep coming on 13:31 - Aug 14 by lowhouseblue |
"That isn’t name calling that’s simply being descriptive" - come on now, you're not six.
"I’ve found your turn in recent months astonishing and some of what you post disgusting." but you say that without examples. you are free to challenge what someone posts when they post it - prove them wrong - vague generalisations are just a cheap insult.
"You’re not even very good at the game you try and play and get uppity when you lose at it." your response for being called out for posting insults is, guess what, to post more insults. |
Can someone remind me what this thread was about.
I’m sure it wasn’t about Lowhouse. |  |
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| The Boats keep coming on 13:46 - Aug 14 with 185 views | lowhouseblue |
| The Boats keep coming on 13:37 - Aug 14 by reusersfreekicks |
Do you have evidence for the net draw assertion
You seem to think all anti-immigration supporters are well informed people deeply impacted by immigration.
The town I live in has hardly any Immigants based here yet a high proportion of the people I meet in pubs/bars trot out the same old myths and mis-information. The level of racial prejudice is very much on the increase.
Your efforts to give Farage et al legitimacy mirrors what you did for Trump.
Long words don't hide true agendas [Post edited 14 Aug 13:41]
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the net draw is the obr figures for migrants who are below average wage or are economically inactive - they together are a very large proportion of recent arrivals.
i think a very large majority of people in the uk think that past immigration has been a success and are supportive of it - their concern is with the current unprecedented level. i don't think that supports your link to racial prejudice. there is undoubtedly a racist minority.
as i said in my post one factor lots of people point to is housing. can you explain how given our extreme housing crisis which impacts lots of people severely we have been able to accommodate a net addition of 3 million people over 4 years without any impact?
i have no time for farage - i'm convinced that if we are to avoid farage as pm this government must significantly reduce net immigration.
what did i do for trump? a link please - all i'm aware of posting is that people voted for trump because they had lost trust in the democrat establishment. that's not an unusual view. [Post edited 14 Aug 13:47]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The Boats keep coming on 13:50 - Aug 14 with 170 views | lowhouseblue |
| The Boats keep coming on 13:41 - Aug 14 by Pinewoodblue |
Can someone remind me what this thread was about.
I’m sure it wasn’t about Lowhouse. |
post what you want it to be about. express a view, respond to counter views. what do you want the thread to include? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| The Boats keep coming on 13:56 - Aug 14 with 139 views | Herbivore |
| The Boats keep coming on 13:25 - Aug 14 by lowhouseblue |
so then respond to the points i have made in this thread? show up my incapability with your dazzling prowess.
but of course you don't / can't do that. you don't engage in discussion but you disparage the poster. you don't debate so all you do is try to delegitimise anyone who challenges you. it's pathetic. you are a pebble of intellectual fragility rattling loudly in a tin of utmost certainty. |
I engage in debate with people frequently on here, just not with you. You know why, I've explained it clearly to you and pointed out examples of you doing the things that make debating with you a pointless and unpleasant experience.
Enjoy your afternoon. | |
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| The Boats keep coming on 13:58 - Aug 14 with 116 views | nrb1985 |
| The Boats keep coming on 11:42 - Aug 14 by DanTheMan |
If Governments could stop asylum seekers / actually illegal immigration tomorrow, they would. It serves them no purpose other than to get people annoyed.
In terms of migration, people are not having enough children, the population is getting older, and people are living longer with increasingly difficult health requirements. Retirees are increasingly making up a larger proportion of society, and we've given them a triple lock pension that goes up when the economy is not doing well.
So instead of attempting to tackle the actual issue (lack of children), we're relying on immigration to keep the whole thing running to a certain extent. |
Agree totally with the middle paragraph.
Very good report from HSBC out today about our ageing population — bit wordy, but the below was enlightening.
Triple lock needs to be amended and means tested. Apparently it now costs THREE times what it was expected to be!
"Pension ages across the world are very hard to move, and are rarely moved at any speed. The highest in the world is 67 (in Australia and Sweden amongst a few others; the UK on course to reach the same level over the next few years). Some, however, are pushing higher, with Denmark making a recent shift to raise it to 70 by 2040 as a result of the policy of tying retirement age to life expectancy, and now lifting the retirement age by one year every five years.
However, as outlined above, 70 is probably the minimum needed to even get close to getting pensioner to non-pensioner ratios back into check. As a result, on paper, public pensions may have to get much less generous – a challenge as, although many pensioners are wealthy, poverty rates for others are already high: according to OECD data, between 10–20% of over 65s have incomes below 50% of median household incomes in most OECD economies. As a result, any cuts to pension amounts would need to protect the most vulnerable, or at least be means tested.
At the very least, governments are likely to need to consider limiting how much pensions rise. In the UK, the ‘triple lock’ on pensions means that the state pension rises each year by the highest rate out of inflation, wage growth, or 2.5%. This is now set to cost three times more than it was initially estimated.
But raising the retirement age is now more plausible (at least in theory) than ever before – given the shift in the nature of work away from physical to more service-heavy roles, we could see workers more likely to be able to stay in the workforce until they’re 70 or 75. As charts 24 and 25 show, this would almost entirely reset the demographic pyramid problem. Trimming the value of pensions may also encourage people to stay in the workforce for longer – although if people have been able to accumulate large private pensions, they are likely to retire earlier. As a result, some sort of means testing to state pensions may be needed." [Post edited 14 Aug 14:00]
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| The Boats keep coming on 14:06 - Aug 14 with 91 views | RamRob |
| The Boats keep coming on 12:59 - Aug 14 by Mullet |
“You’ve assumed my morality…”etc
You don’t seem to know what you’ve even posted. Perhaps when you’re calmer you’ll apologise too eh? |
Point taken, I did say that. I'm human I make mistakes. To be honest it was more an observation than an assumption, I'll run it past ChatGPT in future
You have proven my point, didn't want to engage and tried to reframe the discussion without once addressing what I actually wrote. I even agreed with you when you made the point about calling out racism when I never stated otherwise, but it needs to actually be racist not just people questioning current events.
Most of what I wrote were generalisations not aimed at anyone in particular. I am calm, but thank you for your concern. | |
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| The Boats keep coming on 14:10 - Aug 14 with 67 views | lowhouseblue |
| The Boats keep coming on 13:56 - Aug 14 by Herbivore |
I engage in debate with people frequently on here, just not with you. You know why, I've explained it clearly to you and pointed out examples of you doing the things that make debating with you a pointless and unpleasant experience.
Enjoy your afternoon. |
again pathetic and a weak cop out. you get challenged, you can't defend your views, instead you belittle people. you do it all the time. the 'no debate' strategy towards those with different views is a complete dead end.
how about you stop down arrowing my every post and in return i won't expect any reasoned responses from you. also, you only need to state your good wishes for my afternoon once, i'll take it as read from now on. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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