| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska 20:42 - Aug 15 with 2561 views | ElderGrizzly |
While on a red carpet š
They then drive off like best buddies in Trumpās car.
I donāt remember Zelensky getting such a warm welcome [Post edited 15 Aug 20:43]
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| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 23:00 - Aug 15 with 855 views | Perublue |
| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 22:35 - Aug 15 by Axeldalai_lama |
What? Putin's reminding trump of the urinating call girl video he allegedly has? |
Two presidents one beast [Post edited 15 Aug 23:03]
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| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 23:25 - Aug 15 with 773 views | lowhouseblue |
the fundamental test here is which one are people going to call a fascist? [Post edited 15 Aug 23:36]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 00:24 - Aug 16 with 661 views | Ryorry |
| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 23:00 - Aug 15 by Perublue |
Two presidents one beast [Post edited 15 Aug 23:03]
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Two dictators masquerading as Presidents.
Republican-voting Americans remind me of people brainwashed by cult leaders.
Sickening. |  |
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| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 00:48 - Aug 16 with 645 views | urbanpenguin |
Not any more. History can be rewritten - just as economic data is a moveable feast, or political borders can be simply shifted, so to can this clapping be removed, as the White House have now done from the official footage. |  | | |
| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 06:25 - Aug 16 with 570 views | WD19 |
| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 20:45 - Aug 15 by ArnoldMoorhen |
The red carpet and handshake are standard for a Head of State.
The clapping isn't. |
Putin ensured Trump received the clap when he visited Moscow once. |  | | |
| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 07:19 - Aug 16 with 524 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 00:48 - Aug 16 by urbanpenguin |
Not any more. History can be rewritten - just as economic data is a moveable feast, or political borders can be simply shifted, so to can this clapping be removed, as the White House have now done from the official footage. |
Ah, so this version is now the āfakeā one. Whatās happening over there is all very sinister. I always thought it was hyperbole to talk about him using force to have a third term (or rather, just not end his second one), but theyāre well on the way. |  |
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| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 07:53 - Aug 16 with 483 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 00:24 - Aug 16 by Ryorry |
Two dictators masquerading as Presidents.
Republican-voting Americans remind me of people brainwashed by cult leaders.
Sickening. |
Ok, Iām going to add the usual disclaimer that I believe Trump is an appalling human being.
But having spent the best part of a month travelling across over 4500 miles and 20 States in the USA last month, I think the reality is different to the perception of a large majority of Republican voters.
My Mrs is doing a Politics degree as a mature student at Uni, and Iāve always had a healthy interest in politics so wherever we went we were keen to gage the options from the locals of Trump. What we came away with was that the majority of Republican voters fore not brainwashed nasty racists. They were mostly people who didnāt particularly like Trump as a person but felt a renewed sense of national pride in their country. People who were very comfortable in their own skins as Americans in a way that we arenāt as Brits. How we are slightly embarrassed or apologetic about expressing patriotism.
One guy who couldnāt bring himself to vote for either Trump or a Hillary in 2016 went with Trump this time because he felt very let down by the Democrats, that Biden appeared very weak both nationally and on the world stage and that he was angry how Bidenās mental decline had been covered up by the party establishment.
My eldest son lives in St Augustine, Florida and We got an invite to a block party on 4th July. The host was a Hispanic former Marine and undercover cop who had travelled the world so wasnāt somebody with very insular views but his sense of the USA was that its is a country that really doesnāt need anyone else. that they can pretty much make or grow anything they need themselves. There was logic to his argument but no undercurrent of xenophobia or nastiness.
One person at the block party had a MAGA cap, another person was wearing a T Shirt which said āelect a clown expect a circusā with a picture of Trump done up in clown make up. From what we read in the media and social media I might have expected that the MAGA group to take her around the back of the garage and kick the sh1t out if her. The reality couldnāt have been further than the truth. They all enjoyed friendly banter.
And that was pretty much the mood throughout our entire journey. The people were great and Iāve never experienced so much respect and manners from young people.
Iād not been to the States for twenty years so I really wasnāt sure what to expect, we both said after Trump humiliated Zelenskyy in the White House that had we not booked the flights and had family we wanted to visit that we were reluctant to put a penny in the US economy. But Iām glad we did because it gave us a different perspective of the people out there. |  |
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| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 08:14 - Aug 16 with 445 views | iamatractorboy |
| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 07:53 - Aug 16 by GlasgowBlue |
Ok, Iām going to add the usual disclaimer that I believe Trump is an appalling human being.
But having spent the best part of a month travelling across over 4500 miles and 20 States in the USA last month, I think the reality is different to the perception of a large majority of Republican voters.
My Mrs is doing a Politics degree as a mature student at Uni, and Iāve always had a healthy interest in politics so wherever we went we were keen to gage the options from the locals of Trump. What we came away with was that the majority of Republican voters fore not brainwashed nasty racists. They were mostly people who didnāt particularly like Trump as a person but felt a renewed sense of national pride in their country. People who were very comfortable in their own skins as Americans in a way that we arenāt as Brits. How we are slightly embarrassed or apologetic about expressing patriotism.
One guy who couldnāt bring himself to vote for either Trump or a Hillary in 2016 went with Trump this time because he felt very let down by the Democrats, that Biden appeared very weak both nationally and on the world stage and that he was angry how Bidenās mental decline had been covered up by the party establishment.
My eldest son lives in St Augustine, Florida and We got an invite to a block party on 4th July. The host was a Hispanic former Marine and undercover cop who had travelled the world so wasnāt somebody with very insular views but his sense of the USA was that its is a country that really doesnāt need anyone else. that they can pretty much make or grow anything they need themselves. There was logic to his argument but no undercurrent of xenophobia or nastiness.
One person at the block party had a MAGA cap, another person was wearing a T Shirt which said āelect a clown expect a circusā with a picture of Trump done up in clown make up. From what we read in the media and social media I might have expected that the MAGA group to take her around the back of the garage and kick the sh1t out if her. The reality couldnāt have been further than the truth. They all enjoyed friendly banter.
And that was pretty much the mood throughout our entire journey. The people were great and Iāve never experienced so much respect and manners from young people.
Iād not been to the States for twenty years so I really wasnāt sure what to expect, we both said after Trump humiliated Zelenskyy in the White House that had we not booked the flights and had family we wanted to visit that we were reluctant to put a penny in the US economy. But Iām glad we did because it gave us a different perspective of the people out there. |
That's interesting to read, thanks.
But for me it just compounds my feeling of total cognitive dissonance around a hell of a lot of Americans who vote for Trump. They can appear nice, polite, generous to a fault in person, and yet they are actively supporting an absolute monster who is doing real harm to millions of people. There's a disconnect there that is unfathomable to me. The man (and the sinister group that many think are pulling the strings, 'Project 2025') are quite clearly out to damage democratic (small d) institutions and processes, intimidate and bully organisations and people into toeing the line, illegally detaining and deporting people who have not been found guilty of committing any crimes, will likely undermine public confidence in safe vaccinations, grift drift grift off the back of his position with a conflict of interest that you wouldn't believe. Sorry, started off on the usual Trump rant there, but it is very hard not to. I just can't fathom anyone with a decent bone in their body justifying a vote for him, regardless of how useless they might feel the Dems are (which I could understand them feeling completely). [Post edited 16 Aug 8:15]
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| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 08:15 - Aug 16 with 434 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 07:53 - Aug 16 by GlasgowBlue |
Ok, Iām going to add the usual disclaimer that I believe Trump is an appalling human being.
But having spent the best part of a month travelling across over 4500 miles and 20 States in the USA last month, I think the reality is different to the perception of a large majority of Republican voters.
My Mrs is doing a Politics degree as a mature student at Uni, and Iāve always had a healthy interest in politics so wherever we went we were keen to gage the options from the locals of Trump. What we came away with was that the majority of Republican voters fore not brainwashed nasty racists. They were mostly people who didnāt particularly like Trump as a person but felt a renewed sense of national pride in their country. People who were very comfortable in their own skins as Americans in a way that we arenāt as Brits. How we are slightly embarrassed or apologetic about expressing patriotism.
One guy who couldnāt bring himself to vote for either Trump or a Hillary in 2016 went with Trump this time because he felt very let down by the Democrats, that Biden appeared very weak both nationally and on the world stage and that he was angry how Bidenās mental decline had been covered up by the party establishment.
My eldest son lives in St Augustine, Florida and We got an invite to a block party on 4th July. The host was a Hispanic former Marine and undercover cop who had travelled the world so wasnāt somebody with very insular views but his sense of the USA was that its is a country that really doesnāt need anyone else. that they can pretty much make or grow anything they need themselves. There was logic to his argument but no undercurrent of xenophobia or nastiness.
One person at the block party had a MAGA cap, another person was wearing a T Shirt which said āelect a clown expect a circusā with a picture of Trump done up in clown make up. From what we read in the media and social media I might have expected that the MAGA group to take her around the back of the garage and kick the sh1t out if her. The reality couldnāt have been further than the truth. They all enjoyed friendly banter.
And that was pretty much the mood throughout our entire journey. The people were great and Iāve never experienced so much respect and manners from young people.
Iād not been to the States for twenty years so I really wasnāt sure what to expect, we both said after Trump humiliated Zelenskyy in the White House that had we not booked the flights and had family we wanted to visit that we were reluctant to put a penny in the US economy. But Iām glad we did because it gave us a different perspective of the people out there. |
I didnāt attend and specific political events when I was out there in his first term, so canāt comment on how politicos mixed. The main observation I had was that people didnāt talk about politics. It wasnāt raised and if you mentioned Trump or Hillary, the response was largely an eye roll or shrug, or maybe a quick āyeah, we donāt really talk about thatā and then the subject was changed. Real life certainly wasnāt the highly charged adversarial political environment we see online. Mind you, he wasnāt deploying the military to blue states on pretences at that point. | |
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| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 08:17 - Aug 16 with 427 views | Plums |
| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 07:53 - Aug 16 by GlasgowBlue |
Ok, Iām going to add the usual disclaimer that I believe Trump is an appalling human being.
But having spent the best part of a month travelling across over 4500 miles and 20 States in the USA last month, I think the reality is different to the perception of a large majority of Republican voters.
My Mrs is doing a Politics degree as a mature student at Uni, and Iāve always had a healthy interest in politics so wherever we went we were keen to gage the options from the locals of Trump. What we came away with was that the majority of Republican voters fore not brainwashed nasty racists. They were mostly people who didnāt particularly like Trump as a person but felt a renewed sense of national pride in their country. People who were very comfortable in their own skins as Americans in a way that we arenāt as Brits. How we are slightly embarrassed or apologetic about expressing patriotism.
One guy who couldnāt bring himself to vote for either Trump or a Hillary in 2016 went with Trump this time because he felt very let down by the Democrats, that Biden appeared very weak both nationally and on the world stage and that he was angry how Bidenās mental decline had been covered up by the party establishment.
My eldest son lives in St Augustine, Florida and We got an invite to a block party on 4th July. The host was a Hispanic former Marine and undercover cop who had travelled the world so wasnāt somebody with very insular views but his sense of the USA was that its is a country that really doesnāt need anyone else. that they can pretty much make or grow anything they need themselves. There was logic to his argument but no undercurrent of xenophobia or nastiness.
One person at the block party had a MAGA cap, another person was wearing a T Shirt which said āelect a clown expect a circusā with a picture of Trump done up in clown make up. From what we read in the media and social media I might have expected that the MAGA group to take her around the back of the garage and kick the sh1t out if her. The reality couldnāt have been further than the truth. They all enjoyed friendly banter.
And that was pretty much the mood throughout our entire journey. The people were great and Iāve never experienced so much respect and manners from young people.
Iād not been to the States for twenty years so I really wasnāt sure what to expect, we both said after Trump humiliated Zelenskyy in the White House that had we not booked the flights and had family we wanted to visit that we were reluctant to put a penny in the US economy. But Iām glad we did because it gave us a different perspective of the people out there. |
Thank you for sharing this, I think it's important experiences such as yours are heard and understood. The alternative is even more entrenched, divisive positions being taken and the slide towards polarity continuing.
Overlaying complexity with simplicity rarely ends well! |  |
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| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 08:26 - Aug 16 with 414 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 08:14 - Aug 16 by iamatractorboy |
That's interesting to read, thanks.
But for me it just compounds my feeling of total cognitive dissonance around a hell of a lot of Americans who vote for Trump. They can appear nice, polite, generous to a fault in person, and yet they are actively supporting an absolute monster who is doing real harm to millions of people. There's a disconnect there that is unfathomable to me. The man (and the sinister group that many think are pulling the strings, 'Project 2025') are quite clearly out to damage democratic (small d) institutions and processes, intimidate and bully organisations and people into toeing the line, illegally detaining and deporting people who have not been found guilty of committing any crimes, will likely undermine public confidence in safe vaccinations, grift drift grift off the back of his position with a conflict of interest that you wouldn't believe. Sorry, started off on the usual Trump rant there, but it is very hard not to. I just can't fathom anyone with a decent bone in their body justifying a vote for him, regardless of how useless they might feel the Dems are (which I could understand them feeling completely). [Post edited 16 Aug 8:15]
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Thatās a good counter. A big disconnect, agreed. Weāre back to that Sleepwalking into fascism stuff, but on steroids this time.
There have been some good posts on this point so far. | |
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| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 08:55 - Aug 16 with 375 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 07:19 - Aug 16 by Swansea_Blue |
Ah, so this version is now the āfakeā one. Whatās happening over there is all very sinister. I always thought it was hyperbole to talk about him using force to have a third term (or rather, just not end his second one), but theyāre well on the way. |
He has militarised Washington DC, and put a direct appointee in charge of the Police Force.
Nobody can get him out of the White House until he is ready to leave.
It's gobsmacking that people haven't cottoned on to this yet.
The Democrats are bringing legal challenges, which will ultimately reach the (rigged, Pro-Trump) Supreme Court. Once that make their decision, it will be set in stone. They have one chance to save democracy in the USA.
The Senate and House are both under Republican control, and have rolled over at every previous opportunity.
He has every branch of power locked up.
If you have friends in the USA, encourage them to leave. | | | |
| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 09:11 - Aug 16 with 346 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 08:55 - Aug 16 by ArnoldMoorhen |
He has militarised Washington DC, and put a direct appointee in charge of the Police Force.
Nobody can get him out of the White House until he is ready to leave.
It's gobsmacking that people haven't cottoned on to this yet.
The Democrats are bringing legal challenges, which will ultimately reach the (rigged, Pro-Trump) Supreme Court. Once that make their decision, it will be set in stone. They have one chance to save democracy in the USA.
The Senate and House are both under Republican control, and have rolled over at every previous opportunity.
He has every branch of power locked up.
If you have friends in the USA, encourage them to leave. |
Better to advise them to stand firm and make their vote count.
I wonder how many Democrats found it difficult to vote for a woman of colour. A few shared by several American friends. They also believe there was a degree of rigging involved. |  |
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| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 09:23 - Aug 16 with 308 views | redrickstuhaart |
The outcome was entirely as predicted.
Trump got his tummy tickled. The prospect of "severe consequences" is now off the menu. TACO. Nothing else changed.
Business as usual for Russia in Ukraine. | | | |
| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 09:35 - Aug 16 with 257 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 09:23 - Aug 16 by redrickstuhaart |
The outcome was entirely as predicted.
Trump got his tummy tickled. The prospect of "severe consequences" is now off the menu. TACO. Nothing else changed.
Business as usual for Russia in Ukraine. |
And itās perfectly set up for Trump to berate/blame Zelensky on Monday in Washington when they meet | | | |
| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 09:49 - Aug 16 with 218 views | DJR |
| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 07:53 - Aug 16 by GlasgowBlue |
Ok, Iām going to add the usual disclaimer that I believe Trump is an appalling human being.
But having spent the best part of a month travelling across over 4500 miles and 20 States in the USA last month, I think the reality is different to the perception of a large majority of Republican voters.
My Mrs is doing a Politics degree as a mature student at Uni, and Iāve always had a healthy interest in politics so wherever we went we were keen to gage the options from the locals of Trump. What we came away with was that the majority of Republican voters fore not brainwashed nasty racists. They were mostly people who didnāt particularly like Trump as a person but felt a renewed sense of national pride in their country. People who were very comfortable in their own skins as Americans in a way that we arenāt as Brits. How we are slightly embarrassed or apologetic about expressing patriotism.
One guy who couldnāt bring himself to vote for either Trump or a Hillary in 2016 went with Trump this time because he felt very let down by the Democrats, that Biden appeared very weak both nationally and on the world stage and that he was angry how Bidenās mental decline had been covered up by the party establishment.
My eldest son lives in St Augustine, Florida and We got an invite to a block party on 4th July. The host was a Hispanic former Marine and undercover cop who had travelled the world so wasnāt somebody with very insular views but his sense of the USA was that its is a country that really doesnāt need anyone else. that they can pretty much make or grow anything they need themselves. There was logic to his argument but no undercurrent of xenophobia or nastiness.
One person at the block party had a MAGA cap, another person was wearing a T Shirt which said āelect a clown expect a circusā with a picture of Trump done up in clown make up. From what we read in the media and social media I might have expected that the MAGA group to take her around the back of the garage and kick the sh1t out if her. The reality couldnāt have been further than the truth. They all enjoyed friendly banter.
And that was pretty much the mood throughout our entire journey. The people were great and Iāve never experienced so much respect and manners from young people.
Iād not been to the States for twenty years so I really wasnāt sure what to expect, we both said after Trump humiliated Zelenskyy in the White House that had we not booked the flights and had family we wanted to visit that we were reluctant to put a penny in the US economy. But Iām glad we did because it gave us a different perspective of the people out there. |
My two Republican relatives will have voted for Trump this time. They are both educated and decent people.
I met one of them and his wife back in 2017 and they were both a little sheepish about voting for Trump but I came to the conclusion that as Republicans they just wouldn't vote for a Democrat.
Maybe Trump's greatest achievement is to get people who are not traditionally Republican to vote for him. And it mustn't be forgotten that the standard of living for many Americans has stagnated or gone backwards for many years. Indeed, there was an article in the Guardian last year about a former steel town where some were voting for Trump not because they thought he would necessarily solve their problems but because voting Democrat for decades had not got them anywhere.
In many ways there are parallels to the current situation in the UK. [Post edited 16 Aug 9:52]
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| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 10:12 - Aug 16 with 175 views | Radlett_blue |
| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 09:23 - Aug 16 by redrickstuhaart |
The outcome was entirely as predicted.
Trump got his tummy tickled. The prospect of "severe consequences" is now off the menu. TACO. Nothing else changed.
Business as usual for Russia in Ukraine. |
Ending the war is in the interests of both Russia & Ukraine. But for this to happen, there has to be some form of compromise. Putin isn't going to walk quietly away and say "hmm...that was a bit of a mistake". So Russia has to get something tangible in any negotiation or the war will continue. Ukraine will certainly need some guarantees about its future security, but who is going to back up these guarantees?
The real error in al this was the West, especially Europe, doing nothing when Putin annexed the Crimean peninsula, beyond some words and a few sanctions. This clearly convinced him that Europe wasn't prepared to go to war over Ukraine & subsequent events proved that view to be correct. |  |
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| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 10:12 - Aug 16 with 173 views | lowhouseblue |
| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 07:53 - Aug 16 by GlasgowBlue |
Ok, Iām going to add the usual disclaimer that I believe Trump is an appalling human being.
But having spent the best part of a month travelling across over 4500 miles and 20 States in the USA last month, I think the reality is different to the perception of a large majority of Republican voters.
My Mrs is doing a Politics degree as a mature student at Uni, and Iāve always had a healthy interest in politics so wherever we went we were keen to gage the options from the locals of Trump. What we came away with was that the majority of Republican voters fore not brainwashed nasty racists. They were mostly people who didnāt particularly like Trump as a person but felt a renewed sense of national pride in their country. People who were very comfortable in their own skins as Americans in a way that we arenāt as Brits. How we are slightly embarrassed or apologetic about expressing patriotism.
One guy who couldnāt bring himself to vote for either Trump or a Hillary in 2016 went with Trump this time because he felt very let down by the Democrats, that Biden appeared very weak both nationally and on the world stage and that he was angry how Bidenās mental decline had been covered up by the party establishment.
My eldest son lives in St Augustine, Florida and We got an invite to a block party on 4th July. The host was a Hispanic former Marine and undercover cop who had travelled the world so wasnāt somebody with very insular views but his sense of the USA was that its is a country that really doesnāt need anyone else. that they can pretty much make or grow anything they need themselves. There was logic to his argument but no undercurrent of xenophobia or nastiness.
One person at the block party had a MAGA cap, another person was wearing a T Shirt which said āelect a clown expect a circusā with a picture of Trump done up in clown make up. From what we read in the media and social media I might have expected that the MAGA group to take her around the back of the garage and kick the sh1t out if her. The reality couldnāt have been further than the truth. They all enjoyed friendly banter.
And that was pretty much the mood throughout our entire journey. The people were great and Iāve never experienced so much respect and manners from young people.
Iād not been to the States for twenty years so I really wasnāt sure what to expect, we both said after Trump humiliated Zelenskyy in the White House that had we not booked the flights and had family we wanted to visit that we were reluctant to put a penny in the US economy. But Iām glad we did because it gave us a different perspective of the people out there. |
good post. the democrats' understanding why people voted for trump has to start with recognising the decency of the majority of those voters. you don't change things by demonising those who you need to vote for you. someone needs to emerge for the democrats who can reflect the renewed sense of national pride that you encountered.
i think the us is very divided by class, education and geography. if you were in various university towns, eg in california or the north east, i wonder if you would encounter similar tolerance of opposing views. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 10:44 - Aug 16 with 107 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 07:53 - Aug 16 by GlasgowBlue |
Ok, Iām going to add the usual disclaimer that I believe Trump is an appalling human being.
But having spent the best part of a month travelling across over 4500 miles and 20 States in the USA last month, I think the reality is different to the perception of a large majority of Republican voters.
My Mrs is doing a Politics degree as a mature student at Uni, and Iāve always had a healthy interest in politics so wherever we went we were keen to gage the options from the locals of Trump. What we came away with was that the majority of Republican voters fore not brainwashed nasty racists. They were mostly people who didnāt particularly like Trump as a person but felt a renewed sense of national pride in their country. People who were very comfortable in their own skins as Americans in a way that we arenāt as Brits. How we are slightly embarrassed or apologetic about expressing patriotism.
One guy who couldnāt bring himself to vote for either Trump or a Hillary in 2016 went with Trump this time because he felt very let down by the Democrats, that Biden appeared very weak both nationally and on the world stage and that he was angry how Bidenās mental decline had been covered up by the party establishment.
My eldest son lives in St Augustine, Florida and We got an invite to a block party on 4th July. The host was a Hispanic former Marine and undercover cop who had travelled the world so wasnāt somebody with very insular views but his sense of the USA was that its is a country that really doesnāt need anyone else. that they can pretty much make or grow anything they need themselves. There was logic to his argument but no undercurrent of xenophobia or nastiness.
One person at the block party had a MAGA cap, another person was wearing a T Shirt which said āelect a clown expect a circusā with a picture of Trump done up in clown make up. From what we read in the media and social media I might have expected that the MAGA group to take her around the back of the garage and kick the sh1t out if her. The reality couldnāt have been further than the truth. They all enjoyed friendly banter.
And that was pretty much the mood throughout our entire journey. The people were great and Iāve never experienced so much respect and manners from young people.
Iād not been to the States for twenty years so I really wasnāt sure what to expect, we both said after Trump humiliated Zelenskyy in the White House that had we not booked the flights and had family we wanted to visit that we were reluctant to put a penny in the US economy. But Iām glad we did because it gave us a different perspective of the people out there. |
So will they all be comfortable with ICE and the dismantling of democracy.
With key depts being defunded? With RFK 's anti vaccine push.
Being nice and respectful people is fine but ushering in authoritarianism and fascism is inexcusable. How could you vote for an obvious narcissistic liar who provoked the Capitol riots? [Post edited 16 Aug 10:49]
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| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 10:47 - Aug 16 with 99 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 07:53 - Aug 16 by GlasgowBlue |
Ok, Iām going to add the usual disclaimer that I believe Trump is an appalling human being.
But having spent the best part of a month travelling across over 4500 miles and 20 States in the USA last month, I think the reality is different to the perception of a large majority of Republican voters.
My Mrs is doing a Politics degree as a mature student at Uni, and Iāve always had a healthy interest in politics so wherever we went we were keen to gage the options from the locals of Trump. What we came away with was that the majority of Republican voters fore not brainwashed nasty racists. They were mostly people who didnāt particularly like Trump as a person but felt a renewed sense of national pride in their country. People who were very comfortable in their own skins as Americans in a way that we arenāt as Brits. How we are slightly embarrassed or apologetic about expressing patriotism.
One guy who couldnāt bring himself to vote for either Trump or a Hillary in 2016 went with Trump this time because he felt very let down by the Democrats, that Biden appeared very weak both nationally and on the world stage and that he was angry how Bidenās mental decline had been covered up by the party establishment.
My eldest son lives in St Augustine, Florida and We got an invite to a block party on 4th July. The host was a Hispanic former Marine and undercover cop who had travelled the world so wasnāt somebody with very insular views but his sense of the USA was that its is a country that really doesnāt need anyone else. that they can pretty much make or grow anything they need themselves. There was logic to his argument but no undercurrent of xenophobia or nastiness.
One person at the block party had a MAGA cap, another person was wearing a T Shirt which said āelect a clown expect a circusā with a picture of Trump done up in clown make up. From what we read in the media and social media I might have expected that the MAGA group to take her around the back of the garage and kick the sh1t out if her. The reality couldnāt have been further than the truth. They all enjoyed friendly banter.
And that was pretty much the mood throughout our entire journey. The people were great and Iāve never experienced so much respect and manners from young people.
Iād not been to the States for twenty years so I really wasnāt sure what to expect, we both said after Trump humiliated Zelenskyy in the White House that had we not booked the flights and had family we wanted to visit that we were reluctant to put a penny in the US economy. But Iām glad we did because it gave us a different perspective of the people out there. |
As you know, I spend a lot of my working life in the USA and working amongst political operatives and you are correct to say the majority of Republican voters (and Democrat to be clear!) are decent had working people who want tie best for the families (first) and then their country.
The loudest vocal ones we see amplified on social media are absolutely not what America is, but it is easy to think that from afar.
Trump (or his advisors to be exact) tapped into the fear of that family/country unity being threatened and he didnāt matter whether that was from within or from an overseas source. Even better for them was that it was a combination of both, hence the stories of rogue nations working with Democrats to rig elections etc.
Most Americans are also born into a party, depending on where they live etc. Itās very much a tribal thing and the overall voting numbers donāt change hugely either way.
You mention Florida and hispanic community and they in a majority voted for Trump in 2024 in Florida. A similar situation to the UK where 2nd generation immigrants are āthreatenedā by those they see coming in now. Itās what Braverman etc tap into with Farage here.
What canāt be overlooked though, is Trump is (almost unchallenged) cutting away at those foundations of US life that most of those Republicans hold dear. And they donāt realise, or just arenāt believing it because he has done a fantastic job of getting him and his media outlets to be considered the single source of truth.
What is happening on the streets of the USA is absolutely not normal, but 99.9% of Americans on both sides are personally unaffected so they will either carry on as normal or not believe it anyway,
Iāve got 8 more trips to the US starting September through December and it is obvious on the ground how things have changed. I was last there in June and I expect iāll see more subtle changes in September again. Itās the frogs being slowly cooked analogy for the US right now because no-one believes the thermometer | | | |
| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 10:55 - Aug 16 with 73 views | iamatractorboy |
| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 10:12 - Aug 16 by lowhouseblue |
good post. the democrats' understanding why people voted for trump has to start with recognising the decency of the majority of those voters. you don't change things by demonising those who you need to vote for you. someone needs to emerge for the democrats who can reflect the renewed sense of national pride that you encountered.
i think the us is very divided by class, education and geography. if you were in various university towns, eg in california or the north east, i wonder if you would encounter similar tolerance of opposing views. |
This is where I begin to struggle. In politics, within certain acceptable norms, I can totally understand people being able to get along with, even be great friends with, others who share a difference in opinion, voting etc. There are people on here who I am sure are good people and I know I'd disagree with on aspects of politics. But when you have someone beyond any level of decency (Trump), then as far as I am concerned, a vote for him changes someone's values, and what they see as an acceptable level of stench when they hold their nose and tick the box on the ballot slip, to such a degree that I do not see them as a moral, decent person any longer. Some of you may see this as hyperbolic and 'holier than thou' or pearl-clutching. But in my definition of a decent person, a vote for Trump does not exist. It's automatically disqualifying. Just my view. | | | |
| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 11:14 - Aug 16 with 31 views | Ryorry |
| Clapping Putin as he arrives in Alaska on 07:53 - Aug 16 by GlasgowBlue |
Ok, Iām going to add the usual disclaimer that I believe Trump is an appalling human being.
But having spent the best part of a month travelling across over 4500 miles and 20 States in the USA last month, I think the reality is different to the perception of a large majority of Republican voters.
My Mrs is doing a Politics degree as a mature student at Uni, and Iāve always had a healthy interest in politics so wherever we went we were keen to gage the options from the locals of Trump. What we came away with was that the majority of Republican voters fore not brainwashed nasty racists. They were mostly people who didnāt particularly like Trump as a person but felt a renewed sense of national pride in their country. People who were very comfortable in their own skins as Americans in a way that we arenāt as Brits. How we are slightly embarrassed or apologetic about expressing patriotism.
One guy who couldnāt bring himself to vote for either Trump or a Hillary in 2016 went with Trump this time because he felt very let down by the Democrats, that Biden appeared very weak both nationally and on the world stage and that he was angry how Bidenās mental decline had been covered up by the party establishment.
My eldest son lives in St Augustine, Florida and We got an invite to a block party on 4th July. The host was a Hispanic former Marine and undercover cop who had travelled the world so wasnāt somebody with very insular views but his sense of the USA was that its is a country that really doesnāt need anyone else. that they can pretty much make or grow anything they need themselves. There was logic to his argument but no undercurrent of xenophobia or nastiness.
One person at the block party had a MAGA cap, another person was wearing a T Shirt which said āelect a clown expect a circusā with a picture of Trump done up in clown make up. From what we read in the media and social media I might have expected that the MAGA group to take her around the back of the garage and kick the sh1t out if her. The reality couldnāt have been further than the truth. They all enjoyed friendly banter.
And that was pretty much the mood throughout our entire journey. The people were great and Iāve never experienced so much respect and manners from young people.
Iād not been to the States for twenty years so I really wasnāt sure what to expect, we both said after Trump humiliated Zelenskyy in the White House that had we not booked the flights and had family we wanted to visit that we were reluctant to put a penny in the US economy. But Iām glad we did because it gave us a different perspective of the people out there. |
āfelt a renewed sense of national pride in their countryā.
I rest my case!
Iamatractorboy (edit - in his first ie 08.14 post) said it far better than I could ever hope to, but you have my uppie as well for very interesting reporting. [Post edited 16 Aug 11:31]
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