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Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 09:10 - Sep 13 by The_Flashing_Smile
Wow, that is genuinely shocking.
It is, but it’s not even a 5 on the Kirk-richter scale, who everyone is leaping to the defence of.
I watched the Newsagents podcast yesterday about him/his assassination. I didn’t agree with it all but they did very succinctly manage to describe who he was, what he stood for, the lies, division and hate he perpetuated, where he sat in the current power structure that occupies America and even discussed the bizarre ululation as being ‘killed for having an opinion’ and ‘talking common sense’ which has infected the UK, seemingly because many just have no idea who he was, what he stood for, etc.
Highly recommend for those who were not really familiar with Kirk before his assassination.
[Post edited 13 Sep 9:19]
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Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 09:19 - Sep 13 with 1053 views
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 09:15 - Sep 13 by Libero
It is, but it’s not even a 5 on the Kirk-richter scale, who everyone is leaping to the defence of.
I watched the Newsagents podcast yesterday about him/his assassination. I didn’t agree with it all but they did very succinctly manage to describe who he was, what he stood for, the lies, division and hate he perpetuated, where he sat in the current power structure that occupies America and even discussed the bizarre ululation as being ‘killed for having an opinion’ and ‘talking common sense’ which has infected the UK, seemingly because many just have no idea who he was, what he stood for, etc.
Highly recommend for those who were not really familiar with Kirk before his assassination.
[Post edited 13 Sep 9:19]
Yeah it does annoy me when people talk about "just having an opinion" like it's something really innocent. It depends what that opinion is and what it incites. Not all opinions are equal, and not equally harmless either!
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 09:19 - Sep 13 by ElderGrizzly
It is, but this is what Trump wants and needs. Division and hatred
Not just ‘wants’ but consistently actively stokes- Those who can’t see what’s happening are susceptible to being carried away with these quasi-fascists. It’s chilling.
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Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 09:42 - Sep 13 with 961 views
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 08:26 - Sep 13 by GlasgowBlue
Hitler was a Nazi. Nazism differs greatly from fascism inasmuch as racial hatred and genocide of races thought of as inferior is at the heart of Nazism whereas as fascism traditioniibaly focussed on totalitarianism and nationalism without the racial hatred. Hitler took the parts of fascism he liked and devolved a whole new evil concept.
That’s why I posted last night that people shouldn’t throw around terms like Nazis and fascist at people whose views we find abhorrent. And I completely reject the views of Charlie Kirk. But using terms that people don’t completely understand, such as fascism, is very sixth form imo and comes with deliberate shock factor, we can’t call everyone we disagree with Nazis or fascist. It trivialises both terms.
But what I’ve written is probably too wordy to inspire somebody to pick up a gun and kill him whereas throwing around words like fascist isnt.
Most of Charlie Kirk’s abhorrent views come from the point of his religious beliefs. He was basically a white toothed clean cut version of the Westborough baptists. He was a right wing Christian conservative. His views were also all over the place with his anti vax stance during COVID etc. he spread misinformation and his support of Trump was desperately at odds with his religious beliefs. It’s hard to put Charlie Kirk into one particular box.
Did he share sone views that could be attributed to fascism? Yes. But then so do many far right religious groups such as the Taliban, the Iranian regime etc. That doesn’t make them fascists and it’s just an oversimplification to call him one. It’s lazy name calling from people with little understanding of history and what fascism actually is.
Edit. I wish I had more time to contribute to this but I’m off somewhere so may return to this later or tomorrow.
[Post edited 13 Sep 8:33]
The term fascist or Nazi is a bit like the term Marxist or Communist in the sense that it intended as a slur and rarely used correctly when it comes to politics in the West. Indeed, the terms fascist and Communist were commonly banded about when I first became interested in politics in the 1970s to the extent that they became rather knock-about and so lost their true meaning.
When it comes to the term fascist or Nazi, I would only use them in relation to groups like the Proud Boys or the EDL. I might add there is perhaps a certain irony that people like Tommy Robinson now seem to find common cause with the Jewish people and Israel (presumably because they are not Muslims), although I imagine that amongst such groups antisemitism is probably not far below the surface.
As regards Trump, I think the term demagogue is the best way to describe him although that word seems to have gone out of fashion.
This is the definition in Wikipedia.
"A demagogue is a political leader in a democracy who gains popularity by arousing the common people against elites, especially through oratory that whips up the passions of crowds, appealing to emotion by scapegoating out-groups, exaggerating dangers to stoke fears, lying for emotional effect, or other rhetoric that tends to drown out reasoned deliberation and encourage fanatical popularity. Demagogues overturn established norms of political conduct, or promise or threaten to do so."
And of course Trump's prominent supporters (in lesser leadership roles) behave in a similar way to that. Indeed, it is difficult to imagine Trump not being succeeded by a Republican candidate who fits that mould.
[Post edited 13 Sep 10:28]
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Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 10:04 - Sep 13 with 897 views
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 08:33 - Sep 13 by ElderGrizzly
I understand it perfectly well, even at a patronising 6th form way,
I’m purposefully using their language against them which GOP and their MAGA have used in the last 48 hours.
My point of course was the clip, which you’ve totally missed where the President’s biggest cheerleaders and biggest news TV show just floated euthanasia against homeless and mentally ill people. And no-one batted an eyelid
I'm going to get told off by the Mrs for bing on my phone but that "sixth form" line wasn't aimed at you Grizzers.
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 21:05 - Sep 12 by redrickstuhaart
What part of silencing opposition, deporting foreigners, arresting people without trial, undercover snatch squads on teh streets, putting military into opposition controlled cities on a false premise etc etc etc is not "fascist"?
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 08:42 - Sep 13 by Libero
Time to dig out the basic definition, seeing as the apologists are getting louder.
“Fascism is characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived interest of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy”
It’s sounding a bit fascist isn’t it… But you know, they’re probably *just* saying and doing fascist things and not *actually* some form of quasi-fascists. 🥲
[Post edited 13 Sep 8:44]
be interesting to see how people with "they're not even slightly fascist" views, define fascism.
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 09:42 - Sep 13 by DJR
The term fascist or Nazi is a bit like the term Marxist or Communist in the sense that it intended as a slur and rarely used correctly when it comes to politics in the West. Indeed, the terms fascist and Communist were commonly banded about when I first became interested in politics in the 1970s to the extent that they became rather knock-about and so lost their true meaning.
When it comes to the term fascist or Nazi, I would only use them in relation to groups like the Proud Boys or the EDL. I might add there is perhaps a certain irony that people like Tommy Robinson now seem to find common cause with the Jewish people and Israel (presumably because they are not Muslims), although I imagine that amongst such groups antisemitism is probably not far below the surface.
As regards Trump, I think the term demagogue is the best way to describe him although that word seems to have gone out of fashion.
This is the definition in Wikipedia.
"A demagogue is a political leader in a democracy who gains popularity by arousing the common people against elites, especially through oratory that whips up the passions of crowds, appealing to emotion by scapegoating out-groups, exaggerating dangers to stoke fears, lying for emotional effect, or other rhetoric that tends to drown out reasoned deliberation and encourage fanatical popularity. Demagogues overturn established norms of political conduct, or promise or threaten to do so."
And of course Trump's prominent supporters (in lesser leadership roles) behave in a similar way to that. Indeed, it is difficult to imagine Trump not being succeeded by a Republican candidate who fits that mould.
[Post edited 13 Sep 10:28]
JD Vance is Thiel’s man. Their succession is very much in place and it takes it up a notch from where it is now
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Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 11:03 - Sep 13 with 667 views
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 10:45 - Sep 13 by Trequartista
I didn’t realise Charlie Kirk had so much power
Errr what?
Charlie Kirk had some truly obnoxious views and actively stirred culture wars in effective support of what Trump's administration (which is doing all the things I referenced and much more) is doing.
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Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 11:13 - Sep 13 with 626 views
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 23:17 - Sep 10 by Swailsey
It is awful that he has died, horrific, terrible and there’s no place for it.
But. I find it extremely sad that so much coverage is being given to this, so much outrage on certain platforms, when atrocities around the world are now barely mentioned.
This is in no way a comment trying to damped the significance of the murder - it’s abhorrent. But the media and so many people’s minds are just so easily swayed and led. A man in is shot in a familiar environment to many and people are over it like a fly on sh*t, but where is the wider daily public outrage from our leaders about the rest of the world’s crimes?
Somehow it seems to be a pattern that the moment deaths become so large and so frequent, people almost detach themselves from them and see them only as a number.
“X reported dead in Gaza today” appears DAILY on the news, almost as a passing thought. Where’s the outrage about that? Why aren’t people shouting up and down endlessly? Every life is as important as the rest right? Or does it only count if it’s caught on camera and sent around Twitter?
This may well be coming across badly, but I always think about it at times like this.
Where was the coverage when the American solider immolated himself in the name of Gaza last year? It was buried. There was literally 1 post and 3 replies about it on here.
RIP to CK, sincerely. But the world is so fu*ked and uneven.
[Post edited 10 Sep 23:33]
I still come back to this. I can’t believe the amount of airtime this continues to get, in comparison to Melissa and Mark Hortman and other atrocities.
The fact he’s being hailed and reinvented as some sort of free-speech hero is troubling too.
Who said: "Colin Healy made Cesc Fabregas look like Colin Healy"? | We miss you TLA
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Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 11:20 - Sep 13 with 584 views
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 09:15 - Sep 13 by Libero
It is, but it’s not even a 5 on the Kirk-richter scale, who everyone is leaping to the defence of.
I watched the Newsagents podcast yesterday about him/his assassination. I didn’t agree with it all but they did very succinctly manage to describe who he was, what he stood for, the lies, division and hate he perpetuated, where he sat in the current power structure that occupies America and even discussed the bizarre ululation as being ‘killed for having an opinion’ and ‘talking common sense’ which has infected the UK, seemingly because many just have no idea who he was, what he stood for, etc.
Highly recommend for those who were not really familiar with Kirk before his assassination.
[Post edited 13 Sep 9:19]
Fortunately for us all Steve Bannon is at the flag shagging party in London today to help wind down the divisive rhetoric.
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 18:08 - Sep 12 by GlasgowBlue
This is what happens when people throw around the term fascist without actually knowing what a fascist is. People have views that many of us find abhorrent. Debate them. But using a term such as fascist takes things to the next level.
Isn't it at least as dangerous to ignore clear fascist trends until it is too late?
fascism /ˈfaʃɪz(ə)m/ noun
1. an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. ▪ extremely authoritarian, intolerant, or oppressive ideas or behaviour: "an outright ban is just fascism" ▪ very intolerant or domineering views or practices in a particular area: "this is yet another example of health fascism in action"
Tell me these concerning trends are not present in any political parties and governments in the US, the UK, and continental Europe.
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 11:23 - Sep 13 by Nthsuffolkblue
Isn't it at least as dangerous to ignore clear fascist trends until it is too late?
fascism /ˈfaʃɪz(ə)m/ noun
1. an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. ▪ extremely authoritarian, intolerant, or oppressive ideas or behaviour: "an outright ban is just fascism" ▪ very intolerant or domineering views or practices in a particular area: "this is yet another example of health fascism in action"
Tell me these concerning trends are not present in any political parties and governments in the US, the UK, and continental Europe.
You get the impression these people would have been saying the same things in the 1930s.
This is genuinely appalling and shameless from the MP for Claptrap. Paying tribute to a man who opposes British values, had no real presence here until his death etc all to cosy up to Trump should see some sort of sanction from the house.
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 11:50 - Sep 13 by Mullet
This is genuinely appalling and shameless from the MP for Claptrap. Paying tribute to a man who opposes British values, had no real presence here until his death etc all to cosy up to Trump should see some sort of sanction from the house.
That's utterly shocking! You mean he turned up to the House of Commons? Did he have no offers of any other work in the US or even the UK at all?
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 12:05 - Sep 13 by Nthsuffolkblue
That's utterly shocking! You mean he turned up to the House of Commons? Did he have no offers of any other work in the US or even the UK at all?
It's a way of distracting attention from the house in Clacton.
It's sad - I see so many Americans on social media extolling the benefits of the UK, having been here as sort of the military etc. every time I watch a clip I cannot help but think we're simply a few years behind them.
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