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Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 18:13 - Sep 15 by giant_stow
I don't understand the downvotes to this - seems like a reasonable counter to the suggestion that Uni students' brains can't handle crappy ideas. Maybe I've missed the point.
Kirk wasn't just innocently laying out his views in the same way a tutor would teach. He was doing so in a manipulative way, using every logical fallacy in the book, and then editing the results to make himself look good. Whether college kids in America have the criticial thinking skills to appreciate these tricks, I don't know, but there's a reason he targetted young people.
Lowers saying things like "in that case the syllabus should be censored" is just doing his bad faith nonsense again. The two are not remotely comparable. And if someone on the left were doing the same thing as Kirk that would be equally wrong, but I'm not sure why he's brought up that whatabouterry because we were discussing Kirk.
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 17:24 - Sep 15 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior
That's just BS really. What's the issue with him debating college students?
He was very young when he came on the scene and his rise up the MAGA movement was on campus, so it's not hugely surprising he was talking to Gen Z bracket, he was only 31 himself. University should be the time people engage in open debate and discussions.
You can't tell me morons like James O'Brian and his producers don't try and get the most stereotypical "Sun reader" type call they can pushed though so he can belittle them and promote his own YouTube feed with edits. It's across the spectrum and largely irrelevant.
Challenge his view rather his content production. Everyone has an audience, that's how they all make money and it's certainly not exclusive to the right.
Whatever you think of James O'Brien I doubt you'll find a revolting back catalogue of quotes that Charlie Kirk had. Not to mention bussing people to the Capitol die the siege, or putting some lecturers names on lists that made their lives hell. His speech caused a lot of pain and harm
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Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 18:35 - Sep 15 with 746 views
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 18:28 - Sep 15 by reusersfreekicks
Whatever you think of James O'Brien I doubt you'll find a revolting back catalogue of quotes that Charlie Kirk had. Not to mention bussing people to the Capitol die the siege, or putting some lecturers names on lists that made their lives hell. His speech caused a lot of pain and harm
As I said challenge his views, my response was to Joe about who he was debating and his content edits for his audience, I actually wonder if you bother reading sometimes.
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 18:11 - Sep 15 by redrickstuhaart
The situation he sets up is one where he is prepped and the other party is not. Worse still, they are presumably selective about what actually goes into the clips.
Worse still, the tactics employed are not those of someone interested in a genuine debate. But the average student who is challenged off the cuff on a campus because they are faced with an objectionable view, are in no position to spot and deal with that.
college students are typically bright and many are well informed and very politically engaged. compared with any other demographic they are likely to be amongst the most politically clued up. they also don't have to debate with him. i agree with you that turning it into clips is entirely in his control and can be distorted. but inviting students to enter into a debate seems positive. students who engage in politics are not vulnerable and are more than used to responding to stuff they disagree with.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 18:36 - Sep 15 with 745 views
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 18:21 - Sep 15 by The_Flashing_Smile
Kirk wasn't just innocently laying out his views in the same way a tutor would teach. He was doing so in a manipulative way, using every logical fallacy in the book, and then editing the results to make himself look good. Whether college kids in America have the criticial thinking skills to appreciate these tricks, I don't know, but there's a reason he targetted young people.
Lowers saying things like "in that case the syllabus should be censored" is just doing his bad faith nonsense again. The two are not remotely comparable. And if someone on the left were doing the same thing as Kirk that would be equally wrong, but I'm not sure why he's brought up that whatabouterry because we were discussing Kirk.
Ok, thanks for the answer - appreciated
Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 18:21 - Sep 15 by The_Flashing_Smile
Kirk wasn't just innocently laying out his views in the same way a tutor would teach. He was doing so in a manipulative way, using every logical fallacy in the book, and then editing the results to make himself look good. Whether college kids in America have the criticial thinking skills to appreciate these tricks, I don't know, but there's a reason he targetted young people.
Lowers saying things like "in that case the syllabus should be censored" is just doing his bad faith nonsense again. The two are not remotely comparable. And if someone on the left were doing the same thing as Kirk that would be equally wrong, but I'm not sure why he's brought up that whatabouterry because we were discussing Kirk.
there's nothing bad faith in the argument. if you think that students - and particularly those engaged in politics - are too vulnerable and lack the critical thinking skills to engage in debate then where do you draw the line. can they vote? can they form views on other areas of politics. does their lack of critical thinking skills mean that there's only one political view point that it's unsafe for them to encounter? or are there other ideas they need to be protected from? it is incredibly patronising to pretend that highly engaged college students can't identify a manipulative argument for what it is and aren't able to critically form their own views. once you start seeing university students as politically fragile and vulnerable and intellectually non-robust then where does it stop? so far the only dividing line seems to be ideas that you disagree with.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 18:43 - Sep 15 by lowhouseblue
there's nothing bad faith in the argument. if you think that students - and particularly those engaged in politics - are too vulnerable and lack the critical thinking skills to engage in debate then where do you draw the line. can they vote? can they form views on other areas of politics. does their lack of critical thinking skills mean that there's only one political view point that it's unsafe for them to encounter? or are there other ideas they need to be protected from? it is incredibly patronising to pretend that highly engaged college students can't identify a manipulative argument for what it is and aren't able to critically form their own views. once you start seeing university students as politically fragile and vulnerable and intellectually non-robust then where does it stop? so far the only dividing line seems to be ideas that you disagree with.
What bit of 'Whether college kids in America have the criticial thinking skills to appreciate these tricks, I don't know" are you struggling with? Where have I said they should be protected from ideas?
More straw manning, the sort of thing Kirk liked to do. Are you sure you know nothing about him?
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 18:48 - Sep 15 by The_Flashing_Smile
What bit of 'Whether college kids in America have the criticial thinking skills to appreciate these tricks, I don't know" are you struggling with? Where have I said they should be protected from ideas?
More straw manning, the sort of thing Kirk liked to do. Are you sure you know nothing about him?
"Kirk wasn't just innocently laying out his views in the same way a tutor would teach. He was doing so in a manipulative way, using every logical fallacy in the book"
surely that can only be a problem if the students lack the skills to see those arguments for what they are. if you are able to see the arguments as manipulative and logically fallacious then why can't the students? unless you do think students are unable to properly deal with his arguments then i don't see what you can possibly be concerned about?
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 18:57 - Sep 15 with 575 views
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 18:54 - Sep 15 by lowhouseblue
"Kirk wasn't just innocently laying out his views in the same way a tutor would teach. He was doing so in a manipulative way, using every logical fallacy in the book"
surely that can only be a problem if the students lack the skills to see those arguments for what they are. if you are able to see the arguments as manipulative and logically fallacious then why can't the students? unless you do think students are unable to properly deal with his arguments then i don't see what you can possibly be concerned about?
I haven't commented on the students, I was making a comment on Kirk's dishonest debating style and providing nuance and context to the idea that he was just a debater.
Why are you only answering this and avoiding the post where I showed you attacking me for something I didn't say about you?
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 18:57 - Sep 15 by The_Flashing_Smile
I haven't commented on the students, I was making a comment on Kirk's dishonest debating style and providing nuance and context to the idea that he was just a debater.
Why are you only answering this and avoiding the post where I showed you attacking me for something I didn't say about you?
Why haven’t you just blocked him?
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Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 19:22 - Sep 15 with 496 views
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 17:35 - Sep 15 by lowhouseblue
it seems that we're being asked to believe that college students - one of the most politically active and engaged age groups in the US - can't be exposed to open debate because they lack the skills and sophistication to properly understand the issues and they will seduced by the tricks and blarney of the mature and experienced debater. at least if that experienced debater is right wing. clearly left wing views that are the standard fare in most US liberal arts colleges are no threat to the emotional and intellectual development of anyone. plus we are told that until someone's frontal lobe is fully developed (about 25) they lack the higher level cognitive skills to be exposed to right wing arguments - i assume left wing arguments are again absolutely fine and higher level cognitive skills aren't required. i wonder what the fully developed frontal lobe argument (again generally 25) means for the voting age or the age at which people can be given irreversible gender affirming medical interventions? i guess it's only right wing views they can't safely process. jeez.
The quote addresses a great debater. A great debater should debate peers. He isn't a great debater and he doesn't debate peers.
Students often get the better of him, he just cuts that content on his channel. He puts up the videos of him owning the worst student debators.
Take his debates in Cambridge, he got owned multiple times. It was embarrassing for him. He uploads it on his channel with the most brutal bits of him being owned removed.
Funny how you are still defending him despite saying you are leaving the thread and despite saying and demonstrating you know nothing about him.
[Post edited 15 Sep 19:25]
Submit your 1-24 league prediction here -https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/514096/page:1 - for the opportunity to get a free Ipswich top.
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 18:57 - Sep 15 by The_Flashing_Smile
I haven't commented on the students, I was making a comment on Kirk's dishonest debating style and providing nuance and context to the idea that he was just a debater.
Why are you only answering this and avoiding the post where I showed you attacking me for something I didn't say about you?
"Whether college kids in America have the criticial thinking skills to appreciate these tricks, I don't know, but there's a reason he targetted young people."
so what is the 'reason that he targeted young people'? you sate that there is a reason so what do you believe it to be?
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 19:30 - Sep 15 with 451 views
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 19:23 - Sep 15 by lowhouseblue
"Whether college kids in America have the criticial thinking skills to appreciate these tricks, I don't know, but there's a reason he targetted young people."
so what is the 'reason that he targeted young people'? you sate that there is a reason so what do you believe it to be?
Would your debating skills as a 20 year old be on a par with your debating skills as a 30 year old? Do you really think you wouldn't have improved in that regards with a decade more experience?
If it is your career to debate people, do you think you would fair better against people where it is not their career or also their career?
The answers seem pretty obvious.
Submit your 1-24 league prediction here -https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/514096/page:1 - for the opportunity to get a free Ipswich top.
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 19:22 - Sep 15 by Kropotkin123
The quote addresses a great debater. A great debater should debate peers. He isn't a great debater and he doesn't debate peers.
Students often get the better of him, he just cuts that content on his channel. He puts up the videos of him owning the worst student debators.
Take his debates in Cambridge, he got owned multiple times. It was embarrassing for him. He uploads it on his channel with the most brutal bits of him being owned removed.
Funny how you are still defending him despite saying you are leaving the thread and despite saying and demonstrating you know nothing about him.
[Post edited 15 Sep 19:25]
i'm not defending him. read what i have posted. i am objecting to the idea that college students need to be protected from particular political ideas because they lack critical thinking skills or their frontal lobe has yet to fully develop. it is a nonsense argument. it is insulting. students are often highly politically engaged as your examples show. they are not vulnerable or fragile and they have the skills to form their own views without needing to be protected from controversial ideas or cunning debating skills.
i agree with you that if he was editing content to misrepresent those debates that is dishonest and a distortion.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 19:34 - Sep 15 with 409 views
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 19:22 - Sep 15 by Kropotkin123
The quote addresses a great debater. A great debater should debate peers. He isn't a great debater and he doesn't debate peers.
Students often get the better of him, he just cuts that content on his channel. He puts up the videos of him owning the worst student debators.
Take his debates in Cambridge, he got owned multiple times. It was embarrassing for him. He uploads it on his channel with the most brutal bits of him being owned removed.
Funny how you are still defending him despite saying you are leaving the thread and despite saying and demonstrating you know nothing about him.
[Post edited 15 Sep 19:25]
He was taken to pieces and had several of his "gotcha" tricks horribly exposed at that Cambridge event. Preparation, intelligence and honest editing counts for a lot...
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Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 19:36 - Sep 15 with 374 views
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 19:30 - Sep 15 by Kropotkin123
Would your debating skills as a 20 year old be on a par with your debating skills as a 30 year old? Do you really think you wouldn't have improved in that regards with a decade more experience?
If it is your career to debate people, do you think you would fair better against people where it is not their career or also their career?
The answers seem pretty obvious.
again, lots of politically engaged students have stunning debating skills. they are well informed and politically astute. all of them can form their own views on the material and people they encounter. that is precisely why they are at university - to encounter ideas and decide what they think. the idea that students can't critically interrogate and assess political arguments is patronising and insulting.
[Post edited 15 Sep 19:37]
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
-2
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 19:45 - Sep 15 with 349 views
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 19:36 - Sep 15 by lowhouseblue
again, lots of politically engaged students have stunning debating skills. they are well informed and politically astute. all of them can form their own views on the material and people they encounter. that is precisely why they are at university - to encounter ideas and decide what they think. the idea that students can't critically interrogate and assess political arguments is patronising and insulting.
[Post edited 15 Sep 19:37]
You didn't answer either questions. We know the answers. Yes you are better than you were 10 years ago. Yes, a professional debater is going to have a tougher time against another professional debater.
The original quote was about him being a being a great debater. Whether he encounters some students that are smart or not is besides the point. He picks students because he can guarantee some aren't and will upload the worst of them.
I don't agree with someone like Ben Shapiro, who has somewhat of a similar political standpoint, and also does the same student debating trick. But he goes out and debates other professionals debaters. He is nowhere near Ben Shapiro, who is a respectable debater, not a great.
[Post edited 15 Sep 19:46]
Submit your 1-24 league prediction here -https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/514096/page:1 - for the opportunity to get a free Ipswich top.
From three days ago, but just listened to it on my break. Think this wraps up most of my opinions. Gives a snapshot for those that know next to nothing about him.
Submit your 1-24 league prediction here -https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/514096/page:1 - for the opportunity to get a free Ipswich top.
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 19:23 - Sep 15 by lowhouseblue
"Whether college kids in America have the criticial thinking skills to appreciate these tricks, I don't know, but there's a reason he targetted young people."
so what is the 'reason that he targeted young people'? you sate that there is a reason so what do you believe it to be?
Because debating kindergarten children would've been a bit obvious?
Kroppers has laid it out pretty well, I don't need to add more.
Despite being asked, you're still avoiding answering my other point where I showed you got things completely wrong.
Dishonest, bad faith. Like others, I won't waste any more time on you.
Far right politico Charlie Kirk just shot in the neck in Utah on 19:36 - Sep 15 by lowhouseblue
again, lots of politically engaged students have stunning debating skills. they are well informed and politically astute. all of them can form their own views on the material and people they encounter. that is precisely why they are at university - to encounter ideas and decide what they think. the idea that students can't critically interrogate and assess political arguments is patronising and insulting.
[Post edited 15 Sep 19:37]
No-one says students can't critically interrogate and assess political arguments. STOP MAKING STRAW MEN. People are suggesting he only debated with people who had the least debating experience (other than children). Those who fared well were edited out.
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