| Rayner going in… 22:12 - Nov 15 with 2976 views | SitfcB |
[Post edited 15 Nov 22:12]
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| Rayner going in… on 22:17 - Nov 15 with 2179 views | LeoMuff |
I just can’t see Rayner being electable in any way, would be a disaster for Labour |  |
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| Rayner going in… on 22:25 - Nov 15 with 2120 views | WD19 |
| Rayner going in… on 22:17 - Nov 15 by LeoMuff |
I just can’t see Rayner being electable in any way, would be a disaster for Labour |
Someone needs to remind her that she was the one that resigned and her stuff up wasn’t Starmers fault. He does his own. |  | | |
| Rayner going in… on 22:49 - Nov 15 with 1984 views | Zx1988 |
Probably the closest to a more traditional Labour candidate from the likely runners and riders, but the media would never allow a northern, left-leaning, working class single mum anything like a fair hearing. |  |
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| Rayner going in… on 22:54 - Nov 15 with 1953 views | redrickstuhaart |
She has certain qualities. And the forced resignation was absurd.
But she isnt bright enough to be electable. | | | |
| Rayner going in… on 23:05 - Nov 15 with 1869 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Rayner going in… on 22:49 - Nov 15 by Zx1988 |
Probably the closest to a more traditional Labour candidate from the likely runners and riders, but the media would never allow a northern, left-leaning, working class single mum anything like a fair hearing. |
She has only just been forced to resign. It would be utter madness for her to even try it. |  |
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| Rayner going in… on 23:11 - Nov 15 with 1826 views | DarkBrandon |
| Rayner going in… on 22:54 - Nov 15 by redrickstuhaart |
She has certain qualities. And the forced resignation was absurd.
But she isnt bright enough to be electable. |
I think she is bright enough to be electable.
But I think her class, her background and to an extent her gender make people think she isn’t clever enough to be electable. |  | | |
| Rayner going in… on 23:23 - Nov 15 with 1743 views | J2BLUE |
I could live with this.
Give her a chance to bring some fresh ideas. |  |
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| Rayner going in… on 23:27 - Nov 15 with 1719 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
I love Angela Rayner!
(But only if she goes all the way)
Not like that!
Who are you?
Michael Gove???
Disgusting!!!
No, only if she goes all the way in taking out Starmer. | | | |
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| Rayner going in… on 23:29 - Nov 15 with 1700 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Rayner going in… on 23:23 - Nov 15 by J2BLUE |
I could live with this.
Give her a chance to bring some fresh ideas. |
Like she isn't an antisemite! You just wait and see. |  |
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| Rayner going in… on 00:03 - Nov 16 with 1580 views | Plums |
| Rayner going in… on 22:49 - Nov 15 by Zx1988 |
Probably the closest to a more traditional Labour candidate from the likely runners and riders, but the media would never allow a northern, left-leaning, working class single mum anything like a fair hearing. |
She clearly has ambitions but in this case, she's probably more use as an excellent stalking horse for Burnham. |  |
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| Rayner going in… on 05:58 - Nov 16 with 1327 views | chicoazul |
| Rayner going in… on 22:17 - Nov 15 by LeoMuff |
I just can’t see Rayner being electable in any way, would be a disaster for Labour |
I think having a working class woman in charge is just about the only way labour see off reform. |  |
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| Rayner going in… on 07:20 - Nov 16 with 1197 views | Perublue |
| Rayner going in… on 05:58 - Nov 16 by chicoazul |
I think having a working class woman in charge is just about the only way labour see off reform. |
Gillian Duffy if she’s still around ? |  |
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| Rayner going in… on 08:22 - Nov 16 with 1031 views | Churchman |
| Rayner going in… on 23:11 - Nov 15 by DarkBrandon |
I think she is bright enough to be electable.
But I think her class, her background and to an extent her gender make people think she isn’t clever enough to be electable. |
I guess it depends on your definition of bright. Rayner left school at 16 with no qualifications and subsequently gained a vocational one in social care. Rees-Mogg gained a first class degree in history at Trinity Oxford. I wouldn’t trust that creature JRM as far as could kick him.
I also came across Chris Grayling when he was in Dept of Transport and whilst he too gained a history degree (Cambridge), he’s possibly the most stupid man I’ve ever clapped eyes on. Finding the handle on his coffee cup seemed to be a real challenge. A real idiot.
In other words, qualifications do not determine whether or not somebody is bright enough or good enough to do the job. Nor should gender, race, class, age, background or anything else like that. Is somebody able? It’s all that matters.
Is Rayner good enough? Don’t know her but she appears a smooth operator from afar. I suspect it’s actually her politics that’ll determine that. If Labour move to the left, which it probably will, I think it’ll put itself at more risk than it already is. [Post edited 16 Nov 8:27]
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| Rayner going in… on 08:58 - Nov 16 with 876 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Rayner going in… on 08:22 - Nov 16 by Churchman |
I guess it depends on your definition of bright. Rayner left school at 16 with no qualifications and subsequently gained a vocational one in social care. Rees-Mogg gained a first class degree in history at Trinity Oxford. I wouldn’t trust that creature JRM as far as could kick him.
I also came across Chris Grayling when he was in Dept of Transport and whilst he too gained a history degree (Cambridge), he’s possibly the most stupid man I’ve ever clapped eyes on. Finding the handle on his coffee cup seemed to be a real challenge. A real idiot.
In other words, qualifications do not determine whether or not somebody is bright enough or good enough to do the job. Nor should gender, race, class, age, background or anything else like that. Is somebody able? It’s all that matters.
Is Rayner good enough? Don’t know her but she appears a smooth operator from afar. I suspect it’s actually her politics that’ll determine that. If Labour move to the left, which it probably will, I think it’ll put itself at more risk than it already is. [Post edited 16 Nov 8:27]
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The Labour Party needs to remember what happened to the Tory party. Events that lead to the birth of Reform and a split in the traditional Tory vote.
Starmer needs to move his policies to the left, Corbyn & Co wait in the wings. Once they are better established they could attract the likes of Rayner to cross the floor and join them.
The consequences of that happening are unthinkable. |  |
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| Rayner going in… on 09:04 - Nov 16 with 832 views | Churchman |
| Rayner going in… on 08:58 - Nov 16 by Pinewoodblue |
The Labour Party needs to remember what happened to the Tory party. Events that lead to the birth of Reform and a split in the traditional Tory vote.
Starmer needs to move his policies to the left, Corbyn & Co wait in the wings. Once they are better established they could attract the likes of Rayner to cross the floor and join them.
The consequences of that happening are unthinkable. |
If they move to the left or the party splits, they will let either a reconstituted tory party and/or Reform in.
The whole political scene looks a total clusterfck to me. | | | |
| Rayner going in… on 09:18 - Nov 16 with 782 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Rayner going in… on 09:04 - Nov 16 by Churchman |
If they move to the left or the party splits, they will let either a reconstituted tory party and/or Reform in.
The whole political scene looks a total clusterfck to me. |
Agee could be a Reform government with LibDem official opposition.
Starmer needs to stop dithering and decide where he wants to take us. Time he acted like a leader and took control.
The crazy way they are planning the budget is an example of his rudderless style of leadership. | |
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| Rayner going in… on 09:21 - Nov 16 with 776 views | jasondozzell |
I can't believe how far behind so much of the population is. From the moment the dreadful Mandelson/Mcsweeney project to wreck the left and install this government began we were doomed to a huge Reform majority government.
Breathless talk of Burnham, Rayner leadership bods is irrelevant.
It was clear that Starmer and co were not geniuses, there was no plan, and that everyone who thought this was going to be the adults back in the room and liked the idea of 'sensible moderates' has been had. That's embarrassing for the hacks who looked the other way whilst this fraud was being concocted knowing full well what was going on, so they obviously don't like to own up to it. |  | | |
| Rayner going in… on 09:24 - Nov 16 with 757 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Rayner going in… on 09:18 - Nov 16 by Pinewoodblue |
Agee could be a Reform government with LibDem official opposition.
Starmer needs to stop dithering and decide where he wants to take us. Time he acted like a leader and took control.
The crazy way they are planning the budget is an example of his rudderless style of leadership. |
I think that as it stands right now the likely outcomes are a coalition or a hung parliament. The good thing is the genuine threat to the traditional two party system. The bad thing is the potential lack of any clear direction and policy. There is still a long way to go before any general election. | |
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| Rayner going in… on 09:44 - Nov 16 with 698 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Rayner going in… on 09:18 - Nov 16 by Pinewoodblue |
Agee could be a Reform government with LibDem official opposition.
Starmer needs to stop dithering and decide where he wants to take us. Time he acted like a leader and took control.
The crazy way they are planning the budget is an example of his rudderless style of leadership. |
What have they done wrong with the budget?
As far as I can see they did not announce income tax hikes, nor did they announce a reversal of such a policy. Its just what commentators have said. | | | |
| Rayner going in… on 09:46 - Nov 16 with 685 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Rayner going in… on 09:44 - Nov 16 by redrickstuhaart |
What have they done wrong with the budget?
As far as I can see they did not announce income tax hikes, nor did they announce a reversal of such a policy. Its just what commentators have said. |
I can see at least a couple of possibilities.
1 They did leak it either to test the water or knowing they wouldn't actually enact it and then take the credit for not actually raising them.
2 Someone in the media decided to make up that they were going to raise them as a smear maybe partly because they thought it inevitable they would have to do so anyway. | |
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| Rayner going in… on 09:48 - Nov 16 with 680 views | redrickstuhaart |
| Rayner going in… on 09:46 - Nov 16 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I can see at least a couple of possibilities.
1 They did leak it either to test the water or knowing they wouldn't actually enact it and then take the credit for not actually raising them.
2 Someone in the media decided to make up that they were going to raise them as a smear maybe partly because they thought it inevitable they would have to do so anyway. |
I suspect they have talked to people, and that it was under consideration. But thats normal and reasonable. The media have made a story about dithering and u turns, without them ever having announced a decision! | | | |
| Rayner going in… on 09:48 - Nov 16 with 676 views | lowhouseblue |
| Rayner going in… on 09:44 - Nov 16 by redrickstuhaart |
What have they done wrong with the budget?
As far as I can see they did not announce income tax hikes, nor did they announce a reversal of such a policy. Its just what commentators have said. |
but they did send the income tax rise to the obr for their modelling? i think there is no doubt that they have been unofficially briefing on the various budget options - with the result being one contradictory story after another and general confusion and falling public / market confidence. the budget is absolutely critical politically and economically and it would be hard to argue that the months prior have been anything other than muddle and chaos. i'm still hoping the final budget will have enough positive surprises to be a success. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Rayner going in… on 09:59 - Nov 16 with 640 views | Churchman |
| Rayner going in… on 09:21 - Nov 16 by jasondozzell |
I can't believe how far behind so much of the population is. From the moment the dreadful Mandelson/Mcsweeney project to wreck the left and install this government began we were doomed to a huge Reform majority government.
Breathless talk of Burnham, Rayner leadership bods is irrelevant.
It was clear that Starmer and co were not geniuses, there was no plan, and that everyone who thought this was going to be the adults back in the room and liked the idea of 'sensible moderates' has been had. That's embarrassing for the hacks who looked the other way whilst this fraud was being concocted knowing full well what was going on, so they obviously don't like to own up to it. |
I think that slightly misses the point. The elephant in the room is immigration. Nobody in politics mainstream parties wants to talk about it do anything about it for lots of reasons. They haven’t done ever since Blair/Brown’s open door policy started in the 90s. It is a political career ender for them.
Yet tackle it and Reform is finished instantly. Reform cannot do anything about Brexit. Everyone knows that’s a complete disaster so it’s one platform is ending unlimited migration to this country probably in a stupid and cruel a way as they can devise.
Labour still tacitly support unlimited immigration and the tories have no problem with it otherwise it’d have taken steps to do something about it years ago beyond idiotic token schemes like Ruanda. It hardly affects them in their millionaire residences and villas abroad.
The Home Office Minister is talking about it on BBC today and they’ll be talking about it until hell freezes over or until they announce a review. They’ve been in power 18 months now and saw what was happening many years before that and wanted nothing to do with it. But for the threat of Reform, they wouldn’t be interested in gassing on about schemes like Denmark’s now.
If they translate the talk into action and people see that, Reform will disappear overnight back under the mossy rocks they came from - and good riddance. Carry on trying to make the elephant go away with talk and a tea towel and the nightmare you present of the bonkers brigade getting in will happen.
There is nothing wrong with the moderate middle ground. I confess that I by nature am ‘centre left’ if I’m to be pigeon holed. Is that a failed position? Possibly, but aren’t they all? Alastair Darling’s proposals as Chancellor were by far the most sensible for the 2010 - control of public finances plus investment. I’d define them as centre left, but by then Labour were played out so allowed that oily fraud Cameron in.
Starmer appears all wind and p£ss to me. I agree with Ben Elton. Thatcher might have been beyond loathsome, but she had principles you could identify, however wrong they were (and boy were they wrong). What does Starmer offer? No idea. Does he have any beliefs or principles? Has he ever done anything beyond waffle? I heard he was useless at CPS - but a legal dude will confirm or refute that.
Burnham appears more pragmatic to me and from afar seems to offer far more clarity and leadership skills than Starmer. Are you right in saying that’s irrelevant? Possibly, but a half way decent leader might be a start. | | | |
| Rayner going in… on 10:01 - Nov 16 with 626 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Rayner going in… on 09:48 - Nov 16 by lowhouseblue |
but they did send the income tax rise to the obr for their modelling? i think there is no doubt that they have been unofficially briefing on the various budget options - with the result being one contradictory story after another and general confusion and falling public / market confidence. the budget is absolutely critical politically and economically and it would be hard to argue that the months prior have been anything other than muddle and chaos. i'm still hoping the final budget will have enough positive surprises to be a success. |
Would it be unusual to send through a variety of options for modelling? I would assume it would be very poor not to consider the impact of lots of different options. | |
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| Rayner going in… on 10:07 - Nov 16 with 596 views | lowhouseblue |
| Rayner going in… on 10:01 - Nov 16 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Would it be unusual to send through a variety of options for modelling? I would assume it would be very poor not to consider the impact of lots of different options. |
yes a variety of serious options. the problem they have, and the reason why they are floating so many things as possibilities, is that they need to establish what the back benches will put up with. the issue with the income tax rise is not that it failed the obr test but it was clear it would cause serious trouble in the parliamentary party. the same goes for the stuff mahmood is discussing today - will labour mps vote for it? (if it can only be got through with support from the tories that is suicide for starmer). | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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