| Venezuela under attack (n/t) 06:40 - Jan 3 with 13920 views | Perublue |
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| I agree.. but it is a mistruth on 17:40 - Jan 3 with 942 views | unstableblue |
| This is just surreal.. I just listened to the full Fox Trump interview on 17:00 - Jan 3 by NthQldITFC |
Presumably his 300k figure is some arbitrary percentage of all deaths (not just ODs) where 'drugs' can in some way be said to have played a part.
I'm all for putting in a heavy tackle on the stupid orange bastard, but we've got to be careful that we're not playing by the same (lack of) rules that he doesn't adhere to. |
I think its really important, as you state, never to use false information to counter the orange racist narcissist, fall onto his world of continual lying
But again the 300k is way off the mark, as per below article. And in this AI summary:
"Deaths from secondary factors of drug use in the U.S. are those indirectly attributable to drug misuse rather than pharmacological overdose, including chronic disease complications, infectious disease sequelae, accidents, and mental health crises. While overdose accounts for the majority (~96%), an estimated 4–5 thousand deaths per year occur from these secondary or indirect causes alone, highlighting the broader public health impact of substance use"
It is interesting to note that the US has 48k suicides annually, 35% are alcohol and drug related. Which again gives a little credence to Trump point of view, but these are factored in and take them to 100k only.
https://www.factcheck.org/2025/09/trump-again-overstates-number-of-drug-overdose
Of real note is that drug related deaths were on the decline in the US prior to Trump's second term.
But its important to get back to the MAIN point - whether its 100k or 300k, Trump is justifying his regime change in Venezuela on the US drug deaths, where it is fact that Venezuela has very little impact. And in his speech justifying the operation he moved the focus to Mexico.
Coming back to your valid challenge - Venezuela refused to cooperate with the US on drug counter measures, unlike the countries where the majority of drugs are trafficked. So that does give a minor justification, albeit that is because Venezuela has broken off all economic (ahem) and diplomatic cooperation. |  |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 17:43 - Jan 3 with 922 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 15:17 - Jan 3 by StokieBlue |
Whilst the US is the largest producer a lot of that is fracking which is more expensive than traditional methods. Absolutely oil plays a part in this action, Venezuelan oil is much cheaper to extract.
Trump has literally just announced that the US will be heavily involved in Venezuelan oil:
"We have the greatest oil companies in the world, the biggest, the greatest, and we’re going to be very much involved in it."
Given he's just broken international law with the attack and detainment operations I doubt he really cares much about the oil being sanctioned. He will just use it domestically.
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Major oil refineries in US are also set up to refine heavy oils, as found in Venezuela or Canada , not the lighter oils being extracted by fracking.
Not only US get cheaper oil it also reduces imports from Canada. |  |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 17:51 - Jan 3 with 865 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 15:24 - Jan 3 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
I literally said it was more expensive to produce in the US. Hence why flooding it with Venezuelan oil would kill their own domestic industry and all the industry that supports it. The US built up its status to largest produce in the world to benefit their economy and provide energy security. Flooding it with Venezuelan reserves would end that. If you have any knowledge of the energy sector you’ll know the oil motive is an outdated and lazy conclusion. The US industry relies on a commodity price so it’s to their benefit that prices rise from where they are now. They’ve quite literally benefited from loss of Russian output and increased their exports to Europe as a consequence.
The only US involvement would be contracts to its producers, Venezuela kicked out all the Western expertise and have subsequently struggled to reach capacity output. [Post edited 3 Jan 15:27]
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US exports more oil than it imports. I asked Google AI to compare US oil imports/ exports.
This was the response
The U.S. is a major player in global oil markets, both importing and exporting significant volumes, and recently became a net petroleum exporter (meaning total petroleum exports exceeded imports) in recent years, including 2023, though it remains a net importer of crude oil specifically. The key reason for this paradox is the difference in crude oil types: U.S. refineries are optimized to process heavier, sour crude (often imported), while the booming U.S. production yields lighter, sweeter crude, which is exported, generating higher value. | |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 18:06 - Jan 3 with 825 views | DJR |
A bit like Gaza, Starmer is keeping his head down when it comes to breaches of international law. No doubt many Western nations will follow suit.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy4qgvwxp08o
This from article on the Chatham House website.
"Professor Marc Weller, Programme Director, International Law Programme, Chatham House
International law prohibits the use of force as a means of national policy. Short of a UN Chapter VII mandate, force is only available in response to an armed attack or possibly to rescue a population under imminent threat of extermination.
Clearly, none of these requirements are fulfilled by the US’s armed operation against Venezuela. The US interest in repressing the drugs trade or claims that the Maduro government was in essence a criminal enterprise offers no legal justification."
The West really is losing its moral authority when it comes to the rules-based international order. And looked at objectively, it is difficult to distinguish what Putin has tried to do and what Trump has done, because each involves the attempted toppling of the regime of a sovereign nation that each disapproves of.
[Post edited 3 Jan 18:09]
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 18:16 - Jan 3 with 763 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 18:06 - Jan 3 by DJR |
A bit like Gaza, Starmer is keeping his head down when it comes to breaches of international law. No doubt many Western nations will follow suit.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy4qgvwxp08o
This from article on the Chatham House website.
"Professor Marc Weller, Programme Director, International Law Programme, Chatham House
International law prohibits the use of force as a means of national policy. Short of a UN Chapter VII mandate, force is only available in response to an armed attack or possibly to rescue a population under imminent threat of extermination.
Clearly, none of these requirements are fulfilled by the US’s armed operation against Venezuela. The US interest in repressing the drugs trade or claims that the Maduro government was in essence a criminal enterprise offers no legal justification."
The West really is losing its moral authority when it comes to the rules-based international order. And looked at objectively, it is difficult to distinguish what Putin has tried to do and what Trump has done, because each involves the attempted toppling of the regime of a sovereign nation that each disapproves of.
[Post edited 3 Jan 18:09]
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One would hope Starmer would say something like this:
"We in the Western democracies use our force to defend our way of life. We do not use it to walk into other people’s countries, independent sovereign territories. If you are pronouncing a new law that wherever Communism reigns against the will of the people... there the United States shall enter, then we are going to have really terrible wars in the world." |  |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 18:18 - Jan 3 with 771 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 18:06 - Jan 3 by DJR |
A bit like Gaza, Starmer is keeping his head down when it comes to breaches of international law. No doubt many Western nations will follow suit.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy4qgvwxp08o
This from article on the Chatham House website.
"Professor Marc Weller, Programme Director, International Law Programme, Chatham House
International law prohibits the use of force as a means of national policy. Short of a UN Chapter VII mandate, force is only available in response to an armed attack or possibly to rescue a population under imminent threat of extermination.
Clearly, none of these requirements are fulfilled by the US’s armed operation against Venezuela. The US interest in repressing the drugs trade or claims that the Maduro government was in essence a criminal enterprise offers no legal justification."
The West really is losing its moral authority when it comes to the rules-based international order. And looked at objectively, it is difficult to distinguish what Putin has tried to do and what Trump has done, because each involves the attempted toppling of the regime of a sovereign nation that each disapproves of.
[Post edited 3 Jan 18:09]
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Presumably if Russia force a vote in the UN on the subject of US aggression the UK will abstain | |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 18:20 - Jan 3 with 759 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 17:51 - Jan 3 by Pinewoodblue |
US exports more oil than it imports. I asked Google AI to compare US oil imports/ exports.
This was the response
The U.S. is a major player in global oil markets, both importing and exporting significant volumes, and recently became a net petroleum exporter (meaning total petroleum exports exceeded imports) in recent years, including 2023, though it remains a net importer of crude oil specifically. The key reason for this paradox is the difference in crude oil types: U.S. refineries are optimized to process heavier, sour crude (often imported), while the booming U.S. production yields lighter, sweeter crude, which is exported, generating higher value. |
I know, the US is the largest producer in the world. I’m not sure if you are trying to reinforce my point it’s a hugely profitable industry for the US - one which has benefited from the Ukrainian war firstly the fall in Russian production raising prices, and secondly being able to export to markets (in Europe) which previously relied on Russia. The US will now benefit from crude prices going up due to the instability they’ve created.
They wouldn’t be able to export Venezuelan sources oil to Europe as it is subject to sanctions (which is why most of it goes to rogue regimes like Cuba). We are in a period of incredibly soft oil prices, lots of countries are scaling back production as margins are so thin - the US don’t need cheaper oil, and won’t benefit as it will result in their own industry having to scale back production. It directly employs over 2m Americans, and probably tenfold that in the supporting industries, mostly in Republican states. [Post edited 3 Jan 18:24]
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 18:28 - Jan 3 with 726 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 18:06 - Jan 3 by DJR |
A bit like Gaza, Starmer is keeping his head down when it comes to breaches of international law. No doubt many Western nations will follow suit.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy4qgvwxp08o
This from article on the Chatham House website.
"Professor Marc Weller, Programme Director, International Law Programme, Chatham House
International law prohibits the use of force as a means of national policy. Short of a UN Chapter VII mandate, force is only available in response to an armed attack or possibly to rescue a population under imminent threat of extermination.
Clearly, none of these requirements are fulfilled by the US’s armed operation against Venezuela. The US interest in repressing the drugs trade or claims that the Maduro government was in essence a criminal enterprise offers no legal justification."
The West really is losing its moral authority when it comes to the rules-based international order. And looked at objectively, it is difficult to distinguish what Putin has tried to do and what Trump has done, because each involves the attempted toppling of the regime of a sovereign nation that each disapproves of.
[Post edited 3 Jan 18:09]
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Not sure the West has had much moral authority since Blair and Bush invaded Iraq on manufactured evidence - exactly the same M.O as Putin.
Starmer probably would look like a hypocrite as well given his unwavering support of the War on Gaza. | | | |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 18:32 - Jan 3 with 710 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 18:28 - Jan 3 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Not sure the West has had much moral authority since Blair and Bush invaded Iraq on manufactured evidence - exactly the same M.O as Putin.
Starmer probably would look like a hypocrite as well given his unwavering support of the War on Gaza. |
See also Suez. We’ve got a proud history of throwing our weight around unjustly. |  |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 18:47 - Jan 3 with 670 views | Mercian |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 17:39 - Jan 3 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
For it’s size, it’s technically one only the richest countries in the world and has one of the poorest standard of living. It had a government that wasn’t democratically elected, it’s corrupt and exploits its people. Many have labeled it a narco-state.
It likely is a good thing for the Venezuelan people longer term if that’s your question, hence the expat celebrations in places like Miami at the moment. |
The same way that it was a good thing for The Iraqi and Afghan people? Both countries are flourishing two decades after the Americans (and us) came to "liberate" them and the "liberation" of Iran seems to be imminent as well. There are reports of joyous crowds gathering in Ottawa and Nuuk getting on their knees praying for Saint Donald to liberate them also. Of course this is all bull crap but your statement deserves no more than a BS reply. [Post edited 3 Jan 18:49]
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 18:50 - Jan 3 with 653 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 18:32 - Jan 3 by Swansea_Blue |
See also Suez. We’ve got a proud history of throwing our weight around unjustly. |
GSTK
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 18:50 - Jan 3 with 653 views | NthQldITFC |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 18:16 - Jan 3 by GlasgowBlue |
One would hope Starmer would say something like this:
"We in the Western democracies use our force to defend our way of life. We do not use it to walk into other people’s countries, independent sovereign territories. If you are pronouncing a new law that wherever Communism reigns against the will of the people... there the United States shall enter, then we are going to have really terrible wars in the world." |
...or even just a light socialist state.
Or a capitalist state which offers good access to the goodies in the Arctic. Hell, why not an island on the western side of Europe that could serve as an unsinkable aircraft carrier in case they want to bomb France or Germany if they don't toe the line. |  |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 18:53 - Jan 3 with 633 views | DJR |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 18:16 - Jan 3 by GlasgowBlue |
One would hope Starmer would say something like this:
"We in the Western democracies use our force to defend our way of life. We do not use it to walk into other people’s countries, independent sovereign territories. If you are pronouncing a new law that wherever Communism reigns against the will of the people... there the United States shall enter, then we are going to have really terrible wars in the world." |
I didn't realise that Greenland was a communist state.  | | | |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 18:56 - Jan 3 with 622 views | DJR |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 18:28 - Jan 3 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Not sure the West has had much moral authority since Blair and Bush invaded Iraq on manufactured evidence - exactly the same M.O as Putin.
Starmer probably would look like a hypocrite as well given his unwavering support of the War on Gaza. |
I did think that as I was writing my last paragraph but I think it is only more recently that the expression "international rules-based order" has become a slogan the West has used. | | | |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 18:58 - Jan 3 with 618 views | Mercian |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 18:53 - Jan 3 by DJR |
I didn't realise that Greenland was a communist state. |
The Overton Window is so far to the right in The US that Musolini is considered a communist to a huge number of Americans. I kid you not. | | | |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 19:02 - Jan 3 with 598 views | DJR |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 18:06 - Jan 3 by DJR |
A bit like Gaza, Starmer is keeping his head down when it comes to breaches of international law. No doubt many Western nations will follow suit.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy4qgvwxp08o
This from article on the Chatham House website.
"Professor Marc Weller, Programme Director, International Law Programme, Chatham House
International law prohibits the use of force as a means of national policy. Short of a UN Chapter VII mandate, force is only available in response to an armed attack or possibly to rescue a population under imminent threat of extermination.
Clearly, none of these requirements are fulfilled by the US’s armed operation against Venezuela. The US interest in repressing the drugs trade or claims that the Maduro government was in essence a criminal enterprise offers no legal justification."
The West really is losing its moral authority when it comes to the rules-based international order. And looked at objectively, it is difficult to distinguish what Putin has tried to do and what Trump has done, because each involves the attempted toppling of the regime of a sovereign nation that each disapproves of.
[Post edited 3 Jan 18:09]
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Mealy-mouthed reaction from the EU.
Kaja Kallas, EU high representative for foreign affairs and security policy, said in a post on X that the European Union is closely monitoring the situation in Venezuela.
“I have spoken with Secretary of State Marco Rubio and our Ambassador in Caracas... The EU has repeatedly stated that Mr Maduro lacks legitimacy and has defended a peaceful transition,” she said.
“Under all circumstances, the principles of international law and the UN Charter must be respected. We call for restraint. The safety of EU citizens in the country is our top priority,” Kallas added. | | | |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 19:03 - Jan 3 with 586 views | Mullet |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 19:02 - Jan 3 by DJR |
Mealy-mouthed reaction from the EU.
Kaja Kallas, EU high representative for foreign affairs and security policy, said in a post on X that the European Union is closely monitoring the situation in Venezuela.
“I have spoken with Secretary of State Marco Rubio and our Ambassador in Caracas... The EU has repeatedly stated that Mr Maduro lacks legitimacy and has defended a peaceful transition,” she said.
“Under all circumstances, the principles of international law and the UN Charter must be respected. We call for restraint. The safety of EU citizens in the country is our top priority,” Kallas added. |
It’s worrying that we might see “us” in a pincer between the Russians and a far right USA with its own puppet in charge. |  |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 19:06 - Jan 3 with 569 views | Mercian |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 19:02 - Jan 3 by DJR |
Mealy-mouthed reaction from the EU.
Kaja Kallas, EU high representative for foreign affairs and security policy, said in a post on X that the European Union is closely monitoring the situation in Venezuela.
“I have spoken with Secretary of State Marco Rubio and our Ambassador in Caracas... The EU has repeatedly stated that Mr Maduro lacks legitimacy and has defended a peaceful transition,” she said.
“Under all circumstances, the principles of international law and the UN Charter must be respected. We call for restraint. The safety of EU citizens in the country is our top priority,” Kallas added. |
I voted for Starmer last time and if there was an election now I would probably vote for him again and I despise him. That is the state our nation is in. He is still better than Mini Trump Nige. We really do live in a glass house. | | | |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 19:23 - Jan 3 with 507 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 18:50 - Jan 3 by NthQldITFC |
...or even just a light socialist state.
Or a capitalist state which offers good access to the goodies in the Arctic. Hell, why not an island on the western side of Europe that could serve as an unsinkable aircraft carrier in case they want to bomb France or Germany if they don't toe the line. |
It's a quote from a time where we were afraid to criticize our closest ally. [Post edited 3 Jan 19:23]
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 19:40 - Jan 3 with 467 views | GlasgowBlue |
Macron: “The Venezuelan people are today rid of Nicolás Maduro’s dictatorship and can only rejoice.”
“By seizing power and trampling on fundamental freedoms, Nicolás Maduro gravely undermined the dignity of his own people.”
“The upcoming transition must be peaceful, democratic, and respectful of the will of the Venezuelan people. We wish that President Edmundo González Urrutia, elected in 2024, can swiftly ensure this transition.” | |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 19:46 - Jan 3 with 445 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 19:40 - Jan 3 by GlasgowBlue |
Macron: “The Venezuelan people are today rid of Nicolás Maduro’s dictatorship and can only rejoice.”
“By seizing power and trampling on fundamental freedoms, Nicolás Maduro gravely undermined the dignity of his own people.”
“The upcoming transition must be peaceful, democratic, and respectful of the will of the Venezuelan people. We wish that President Edmundo González Urrutia, elected in 2024, can swiftly ensure this transition.” |
Whilst nobody would condone the military action, it will hopefully mean the 8m Venezuelan’s who fled the Chavez and Maduro regimes can return home. Their human rights abuses led to the world’s biggest refugee crisis, with about 3m in Colombia alone. | | | |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 19:51 - Jan 3 with 421 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 19:46 - Jan 3 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Whilst nobody would condone the military action, it will hopefully mean the 8m Venezuelan’s who fled the Chavez and Maduro regimes can return home. Their human rights abuses led to the world’s biggest refugee crisis, with about 3m in Colombia alone. |
I hope that the Iranian people will be next to get rid of their dictatorial regime. And again, without interference from the west. So many brave people taking to the streets and it's getting little coverage over here. | |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 20:01 - Jan 3 with 403 views | Perublue |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 19:46 - Jan 3 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Whilst nobody would condone the military action, it will hopefully mean the 8m Venezuelan’s who fled the Chavez and Maduro regimes can return home. Their human rights abuses led to the world’s biggest refugee crisis, with about 3m in Colombia alone. |
Sorry, but I condone the military action….totally agree with the rest of your post. | |
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| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 20:12 - Jan 3 with 373 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Venezuela under attack (n/t) on 19:40 - Jan 3 by GlasgowBlue |
Macron: “The Venezuelan people are today rid of Nicolás Maduro’s dictatorship and can only rejoice.”
“By seizing power and trampling on fundamental freedoms, Nicolás Maduro gravely undermined the dignity of his own people.”
“The upcoming transition must be peaceful, democratic, and respectful of the will of the Venezuelan people. We wish that President Edmundo González Urrutia, elected in 2024, can swiftly ensure this transition.” |
"Thank you Donald." | |
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