| When this is done and dusted 14:16 - Mar 30 with 3661 views | bluelagos |
One thing that is glaringly obvious to me is that there isn't a proper independent supporters voice.
The official supporters club response was a statement of nothingness.
Blue Action. Could they evolve into being more out spoken? (My preference but are they even open to non A Block members?)
Matt Holland - he would never realistically fill this role.
The press - so dependent on access to the club that they seem reluctant to press the club hard.
The various supporter podcast things - think like the press they are scared of being properly critical.
Maybe there is a space for a truly independent supporters voice? Cos to be honest, I've felt we don't currently hear one from any of the above.
Lots of teams have truly independent supporters clubs, not convinced we do...
Thoughts?
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| When this is done and dusted on 17:30 - Mar 30 with 728 views | victorysquad |
Yes I think it is needed, and I think you could lead it. |  |
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| When this is done and dusted on 17:33 - Mar 30 with 717 views | bluelagos |
| When this is done and dusted on 17:30 - Mar 30 by victorysquad |
Yes I think it is needed, and I think you could lead it. |
No chance pal.
Needs someone way more open to bringing others along. If I ever got in front of Ashton he might need a body guard :-)
Really not my skillset.
I reckon a Joe F or Dubbers would be perfect...
Edit - I would happily help in a side role if it ever happened. Which I doubt it will. Am still most in favour of Blue Action expanding their remit. [Post edited 30 Mar 17:34]
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| When this is done and dusted on 17:40 - Mar 30 with 687 views | HighgateBlue |
One problem is that not all supporters have the same voice on this.
The views of TWTD are not the same as the views of fans more broadly.
One has to accept that there is even a substantial minority who would /vote/ for Farage (not that I can understand such a position).
Then there is a large unvocal mass of people who just want to move on, and think this has been done to death.
I'm not in that camp either, because of Ashton's apparent lying (or refusal to explain what he says the truth is). But this group of people is big. One can deride other online platforms (facebook, twitter, whatever), but a lot of people exist who think very differently from you, and also from me.
For what it's worth, I agree with the way that Blue Action have handled this. They don't really purport to represent one opinion of all fans, and I think that's fair enough. That's not really their role. But if there is to be an entity that /does/ represent all fans then it will naturally not be expressing a strong view that you approve of, but that is not agreed with by a whole ton of fans. I think that's the problem.
I know that Blue Monday has had a lot of critics today, and fine, fair enough, but I do think that their lack of vehemence on this issue is actually reflective of a lot of the fanbase. And to me, every fan is a proper fan, regardless of whether they agree with me, or whether they have loads of away points.
I know you're not saying "why can't the official supporters club just agree with me and shout about it", but short of asking for that to happen, I don't think the thing that you want to happen can happen. |  | | |
| When this is done and dusted on 17:41 - Mar 30 with 672 views | grow_our_own |
| When this is done and dusted on 15:52 - Mar 30 by SuffolkPunchFC |
OK, playing devil's advocate here, and not based on my views - just trying to take a step back, and be objective about this...
How many people voted on these polls? 100 at most. However strongly the feeling may seem on this forum, it isn't credibly representative. All it shows is that 60+ people want Ashton gone.
Maybe X can give us a better indication?
The Ashton message - over 8.1k likes.
The most commented on negative response to that video from @CobboldMassive - 2.8k likes.
That's a better sample - and would suggest closer to 25% are unhappy (although not a direct corelation to wanting Ashton out). And this completely ignores the many fans who are ambivalent / uninterested, and not even participating.
Maybe not what many people on here want to hear, but the calls for Ashton to go could well be in a minority by some way. You could even possibly extrapolate it to a lot less than 10% when taking into account those who don't even feel strongly enough to engage.
This is not a very complete or scientific assessment, but the noise on the TWTD forum *may* not be representative of the sentiment elsewhere.
Just a little food for thought ... [Post edited 30 Mar 20:08]
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So you're saying people on X, a general social media platform, and one many non-right-wingers have abandoned, is more representative of Ipswich supporters than TWTD, a dedicated Ipswich supporters site that hasn't had an exodus of any one political constituency? Lol. [Post edited 30 Mar 17:42]
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| When this is done and dusted on 17:51 - Mar 30 with 631 views | grow_our_own |
| When this is done and dusted on 17:19 - Mar 30 by SitfcB |
Absolute made up crap.
Are you behind that Facebook protest event page then?
As that’s stating the same stat. |
This one:
https://www.facebook.com/event
?
No, but thanks for the heads-up x | | | |
| When this is done and dusted on 17:55 - Mar 30 with 614 views | lowhouseblue |
what if the supporters don't all agree? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| When this is done and dusted on 17:59 - Mar 30 with 611 views | bluelagos |
| When this is done and dusted on 17:40 - Mar 30 by HighgateBlue |
One problem is that not all supporters have the same voice on this.
The views of TWTD are not the same as the views of fans more broadly.
One has to accept that there is even a substantial minority who would /vote/ for Farage (not that I can understand such a position).
Then there is a large unvocal mass of people who just want to move on, and think this has been done to death.
I'm not in that camp either, because of Ashton's apparent lying (or refusal to explain what he says the truth is). But this group of people is big. One can deride other online platforms (facebook, twitter, whatever), but a lot of people exist who think very differently from you, and also from me.
For what it's worth, I agree with the way that Blue Action have handled this. They don't really purport to represent one opinion of all fans, and I think that's fair enough. That's not really their role. But if there is to be an entity that /does/ represent all fans then it will naturally not be expressing a strong view that you approve of, but that is not agreed with by a whole ton of fans. I think that's the problem.
I know that Blue Monday has had a lot of critics today, and fine, fair enough, but I do think that their lack of vehemence on this issue is actually reflective of a lot of the fanbase. And to me, every fan is a proper fan, regardless of whether they agree with me, or whether they have loads of away points.
I know you're not saying "why can't the official supporters club just agree with me and shout about it", but short of asking for that to happen, I don't think the thing that you want to happen can happen. |
"One problem is that not all supporters have the same voice on this. "
This is exactly my point - and I am not advocating for a group that represents all fans in any way shape or form.
I am advocating a voice for the traditional/legacy fan who essentially feels unrepresented at the moment on issues around pricing / safe standing / policing / travel / match times etc.
I'd like to see that voice heard - and those who don't agree, that's fine, would be welcome to make their own voice heard.
But by trying to represent all voices - no voices actually get heard. Just the sort of bland rubbish we've had from the supporters group and the podcast guys. The inevitable sitting on a fence which achieves what? | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 18:24 - Mar 30 with 545 views | The_Jackal |
Think you could be onto something but not sure how it would be representative? Other than some kind of membership and voting system. |  | | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 18:32 - Mar 30 with 505 views | bluelagos |
| When this is done and dusted on 18:24 - Mar 30 by The_Jackal |
Think you could be onto something but not sure how it would be representative? Other than some kind of membership and voting system. |
It would be nice to asked wouldn't it :-)
But I probably wasn't all that clear. Am not advocating a replacement supporters club to represent all fans.
I'm advocating a voice/club bit like the FSA - one that focuses on legacy football issues like pricing / safe standing / policing / kick off times.
Fans who want the opposite or are indifferent would be welcome not to join. | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 18:48 - Mar 30 with 467 views | The_Jackal |
| When this is done and dusted on 18:32 - Mar 30 by bluelagos |
It would be nice to asked wouldn't it :-)
But I probably wasn't all that clear. Am not advocating a replacement supporters club to represent all fans.
I'm advocating a voice/club bit like the FSA - one that focuses on legacy football issues like pricing / safe standing / policing / kick off times.
Fans who want the opposite or are indifferent would be welcome not to join. |
I’ve not thought it through so might not be feasible but I kinda like the idea of an elected structure in principle. The difference being that it’s truly independent.
Meetings to debate issues.
Then membership vote on key topics and put the full results to the club.
If there’s a large majority on certain things then may be room to negotiate on an action / outcome.
Would need to be realistic on what’s covered though. Pointless lobbying for things like changes in kick off times. The club will know it’s not popular but TV picks etc already set out in contractual agreements. | | | |
| When this is done and dusted on 18:55 - Mar 30 with 434 views | bluelagos |
| When this is done and dusted on 18:48 - Mar 30 by The_Jackal |
I’ve not thought it through so might not be feasible but I kinda like the idea of an elected structure in principle. The difference being that it’s truly independent.
Meetings to debate issues.
Then membership vote on key topics and put the full results to the club.
If there’s a large majority on certain things then may be room to negotiate on an action / outcome.
Would need to be realistic on what’s covered though. Pointless lobbying for things like changes in kick off times. The club will know it’s not popular but TV picks etc already set out in contractual agreements. |
Very good points. Kind of the point of thread - between us we might get some really good calls.
All I know is what we have now just doesn't seem to represent anyone if I'm honest.
Bland fence sitting - there has to be a better way? | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 19:01 - Mar 30 with 420 views | chantryblueboy |
| When this is done and dusted on 15:52 - Mar 30 by SuffolkPunchFC |
OK, playing devil's advocate here, and not based on my views - just trying to take a step back, and be objective about this...
How many people voted on these polls? 100 at most. However strongly the feeling may seem on this forum, it isn't credibly representative. All it shows is that 60+ people want Ashton gone.
Maybe X can give us a better indication?
The Ashton message - over 8.1k likes.
The most commented on negative response to that video from @CobboldMassive - 2.8k likes.
That's a better sample - and would suggest closer to 25% are unhappy (although not a direct corelation to wanting Ashton out). And this completely ignores the many fans who are ambivalent / uninterested, and not even participating.
Maybe not what many people on here want to hear, but the calls for Ashton to go could well be in a minority by some way. You could even possibly extrapolate it to a lot less than 10% when taking into account those who don't even feel strongly enough to engage.
This is not a very complete or scientific assessment, but the noise on the TWTD forum *may* not be representative of the sentiment elsewhere.
Just a little food for thought ... [Post edited 30 Mar 20:08]
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Ashton’s message on X has 518 likes and 1800 replies lol
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| When this is done and dusted on 19:13 - Mar 30 with 386 views | Dubtractor |
| When this is done and dusted on 19:01 - Mar 30 by chantryblueboy |
Ashton’s message on X has 518 likes and 1800 replies lol
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What is the general mood of the replies?
Assuming you've sampled them! |  |
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| When this is done and dusted on 19:15 - Mar 30 with 381 views | bluelagos |
| When this is done and dusted on 19:13 - Mar 30 by Dubtractor |
What is the general mood of the replies?
Assuming you've sampled them! |
I had a quick look -
The most liked replies are from Reform supporters upset that Ashton apologised.
The viewing (close to 4m) suggests most are clearly non Towen fans viewing (Cos we big, but not that big) - and presumably it's non town fans commenting and liking replies etc. [Post edited 30 Mar 19:16]
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| When this is done and dusted on 19:30 - Mar 30 with 348 views | positivity |
| When this is done and dusted on 19:15 - Mar 30 by bluelagos |
I had a quick look -
The most liked replies are from Reform supporters upset that Ashton apologised.
The viewing (close to 4m) suggests most are clearly non Towen fans viewing (Cos we big, but not that big) - and presumably it's non town fans commenting and liking replies etc. [Post edited 30 Mar 19:16]
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if it's x and about reform, probably a high percentage of bots too... | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 19:33 - Mar 30 with 336 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| When this is done and dusted on 15:42 - Mar 30 by J2BLUE |
That does sound like a good idea.
The OG TBs |
The Chat Room 7.. a comeback story |  |
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| When this is done and dusted on 19:49 - Mar 30 with 303 views | Vic |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:49 - Mar 30 by hype313 |
Do you really think Ashton would listen? it's all lip service at best. Look at how he reacted with BA from the recent post on here.
Think people need to realise that we're just a pound note to the club, |
Where do you draw the line though? Who do you listen to and who do you not listen to? Listening doesn’t mean doing what those people want. Any football club by its very nature will have a hugely diverse following - the best you can do is chart a middle ground. Any leader knows that to lead is to invite criticism from all sides! For myself I use that as my weather vain - if I’m getting stick from all side then I know I’m keeping fairly balanced! |  |
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| When this is done and dusted on 20:13 - Mar 30 with 237 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| When this is done and dusted on 19:01 - Mar 30 by chantryblueboy |
Ashton’s message on X has 518 likes and 1800 replies lol
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The statement from Tuesday, not the video. [Post edited 30 Mar 20:15]
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| When this is done and dusted on 20:14 - Mar 30 with 226 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| When this is done and dusted on 19:49 - Mar 30 by Vic |
Where do you draw the line though? Who do you listen to and who do you not listen to? Listening doesn’t mean doing what those people want. Any football club by its very nature will have a hugely diverse following - the best you can do is chart a middle ground. Any leader knows that to lead is to invite criticism from all sides! For myself I use that as my weather vain - if I’m getting stick from all side then I know I’m keeping fairly balanced! |
"The best you can do is chart a middle ground."
Which is why we are where we are, isn't it? Wise words Ashton needs to reread because he most certainly has failed in that recently. |  |
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| When this is done and dusted on 20:29 - Mar 30 with 184 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| When this is done and dusted on 14:54 - Mar 30 by JakeITFC |
It has surprised me that a lot of people are seemingly nonplussed by having a CEO/Chairman who has pissed off a good proportion of his own staff and players, lied and shown a fair bit of incompetence in doing so.
The fallout from his apology seems to have just divided people into camps of pro-Reform and anti-Reform but left a big pool of people who aren't either of those things necessarily but don't want to get dragged into a culture war (understandably). The untruthful negligence of Ashton seems to have dropped from the agenda a touch. |
Tbf that seems to be entirely the result of one side of the argument (definitely not sympathetic to Reform, lol) repeatedly trying to frame the debate as such! |  |
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| When this is done and dusted on 20:43 - Mar 30 with 150 views | HighgateBlue |
| When this is done and dusted on 17:59 - Mar 30 by bluelagos |
"One problem is that not all supporters have the same voice on this. "
This is exactly my point - and I am not advocating for a group that represents all fans in any way shape or form.
I am advocating a voice for the traditional/legacy fan who essentially feels unrepresented at the moment on issues around pricing / safe standing / policing / travel / match times etc.
I'd like to see that voice heard - and those who don't agree, that's fine, would be welcome to make their own voice heard.
But by trying to represent all voices - no voices actually get heard. Just the sort of bland rubbish we've had from the supporters group and the podcast guys. The inevitable sitting on a fence which achieves what? |
Ah OK, maybe I misunderstood exactly what you were seeking.
I think I understand your underlying frustration. The club needed to show leadership, even if that was an admission of error, of weakness even. It did not. It allowed a frustrating vacuum to emerge. Many of us were looking around hoping that Spartacus would stand up and have his say. And yes, there was more blandness forthcoming, including from the main supporters entity. V. Frustrating.
(Although I find it hard to criticise them as they were seeking to represent a wide range of fans and just say /some/thing).
If one now creates an entity which speaks (loudly and proudly) for one strain of fan, however right you think that strain of fan is, that merely constitutes a splinter group, or at least a division or fissure within the fanbase. Ashton would shrug, and the only people hearing the loud disagreement between fans would be other fans.
So I'm really not sure that trying to beat one kind of drum more loudly is the answer.
Here's an idea:
I think that all of the supporters entities should get together and put a list of questions to Ashton about what happened. If there is a united front between a number of groups, maybe relayed to Ashton by a joint group of journalists (TWTD and the local raaaags), it will be very difficult for the Club to refuse to answer, and even if they don't answer on their own terms, they will surely be forced to give us some more crumbs of information, with which we can then decide what to do.
I do think that unity, so far as possible, is the best approach.
Maybe even by suggesting the above, I'm violating my own point, because some would say "no, don't ask questions, move on". In which case, yes I guess I'm guilty of the same thing. But I do wonder where we drift to as a fanbase if Ashton just rides this out and says nothing. | | | |
| When this is done and dusted on 20:45 - Mar 30 with 143 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| When this is done and dusted on 15:40 - Mar 30 by Dubtractor |
So it's you and I.
I wonder who the other 3 are? |
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| When this is done and dusted on 20:47 - Mar 30 with 128 views | bluelagos |
| When this is done and dusted on 20:43 - Mar 30 by HighgateBlue |
Ah OK, maybe I misunderstood exactly what you were seeking.
I think I understand your underlying frustration. The club needed to show leadership, even if that was an admission of error, of weakness even. It did not. It allowed a frustrating vacuum to emerge. Many of us were looking around hoping that Spartacus would stand up and have his say. And yes, there was more blandness forthcoming, including from the main supporters entity. V. Frustrating.
(Although I find it hard to criticise them as they were seeking to represent a wide range of fans and just say /some/thing).
If one now creates an entity which speaks (loudly and proudly) for one strain of fan, however right you think that strain of fan is, that merely constitutes a splinter group, or at least a division or fissure within the fanbase. Ashton would shrug, and the only people hearing the loud disagreement between fans would be other fans.
So I'm really not sure that trying to beat one kind of drum more loudly is the answer.
Here's an idea:
I think that all of the supporters entities should get together and put a list of questions to Ashton about what happened. If there is a united front between a number of groups, maybe relayed to Ashton by a joint group of journalists (TWTD and the local raaaags), it will be very difficult for the Club to refuse to answer, and even if they don't answer on their own terms, they will surely be forced to give us some more crumbs of information, with which we can then decide what to do.
I do think that unity, so far as possible, is the best approach.
Maybe even by suggesting the above, I'm violating my own point, because some would say "no, don't ask questions, move on". In which case, yes I guess I'm guilty of the same thing. But I do wonder where we drift to as a fanbase if Ashton just rides this out and says nothing. |
Brilliant post.
Maybe someone in the supporters club is reading it and could take it on? | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 21:06 - Mar 30 with 92 views | bluelagos |
For info. Just messaged the BA guys on their FB page and it's basically the A Block.and not open to others
Shame, but it is what it is .
And to reiterate, I don't for a minute criticise them, think they are brilliant at what they do....would just like them to do more! | |
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| When this is done and dusted on 21:08 - Mar 30 with 88 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| When this is done and dusted on 21:06 - Mar 30 by bluelagos |
For info. Just messaged the BA guys on their FB page and it's basically the A Block.and not open to others
Shame, but it is what it is .
And to reiterate, I don't for a minute criticise them, think they are brilliant at what they do....would just like them to do more! |
Whilst I appreciate your wishes, I like the fact BA has one common aim and is sticking to it. Their aim is to improve the atmosphere in the ground. Their members will have a range of opinions and views and will be free to join other groups accordingly. | |
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