| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers 08:15 - Mar 31 with 5724 views | urbanpenguin |
People keep writing on here that TWTD is full of "left wingers", or even worse "the far woke".
But is it? I didn't want to do a poll because that would only descend into a binfire, but I am nonetheless interested in the fact some people think this website has an Overton Window further to the left than other places in the world.
I suspect that what's actually happening is that those people who otherwise post on Twitter/X or in closed family Facebook groups are here suddenly encountering different views and counter opinions where normally there's a bubble of agreement.
That doesn't mean that everybody here is left wing, just that perhaps it slightly more reflects a broader society, but they cannot get their minds around that and so just believe and shout that they are drowning in a sea of lefties.
Or perhaps, for no logical reason I can imagine, a thirty year old website run by a couple of football fans has somehow turned into a Suffolk amalgam of Tribune, Pravda and The Morning Star, just with more content about Bontcho. [Post edited 31 Mar 8:17]
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| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 13:40 - Mar 31 with 651 views | bluelagos |
| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 10:22 - Mar 31 by LA_Tractor_Boy |
I admire people like the Hillsborough families and Alan Bates, but few of us have that much determination. Look at the pain they all had to go through to 'beat' the institution.
Most people just argue about it as we're seeing on this forum. |
Agree most people just argue about it - but allow me to share a thought on the Hillsborough campaign
Had the campaigning been left to the bereaved, nothing would have happened. But a group of fans, Hillsborough Survivors stepped up. They met with the bereaved and jointly created the Hillsborough Justice Campaign.
They refused to be silent and even then, would have achieved nothing without people outside their group. They used social media, refused to take one step back and stood firm on their beliefs.
Of course you are right, many people made big sacrifices but I can tell you not one would look back and not be part of the biggest fight for justice the UK has ever seen.
And like I say, ordinary fans and then fans from other clubs slowly joined in.
Now no-one for a minute is suggesting that the issues of Ashton and Farage are close to the injustice of Hillsborough - of course they are not. But when it comes to a "point of principle" you'd be amazed how people can stand firm.
And for many that it exactly what it is, whether it's facilitating Farage reform, whether it's lying to and disrespecting the fan base or whether it's the contempt shown to Blue Action - many people feel this is wrong and no, we won't simply shut up or move on.
My genuine advice - accept it because I can feel it, and imho when the mood is this strong - the damage is done. The loss of trust is terminal for Ashton - how it plays out, who knows.
But it is just a matter of time imho |  |
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| This forum has always…. on 13:54 - Mar 31 with 586 views | Benters |
| This forum has always…. on 12:21 - Mar 31 by J2BLUE |
*grabs a pen to play up vote bingo* |
Have another! |  |
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| This forum has always…. on 13:59 - Mar 31 with 561 views | Benters |
| This forum has always…. on 12:24 - Mar 31 by Herbivore |
Astute and accurate posts often get upvotes on TWTD. |
Tap in Herbi. | |
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| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 14:02 - Mar 31 with 564 views | bluelagos |
| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 12:38 - Mar 31 by lowhouseblue |
left v. right isn't the only spectrum. there is a group on here, and it's true about online politics more generally, who are intolerant and blinkered and who see politics in terms of certainty. they refuse to accept that others can hold different opinions legitimately, reject diversity of view, and a large part of what they post is simply intended to deny the legitimacy of political disagreement. so just as there is a left - right spectrum there is an acceptance v. denial of political plurality spectrum, and we have a group on here who are alas at the denial end of the latter. |
Is there about 40 of them? | |
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| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 14:04 - Mar 31 with 549 views | J2BLUE |
| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 14:02 - Mar 31 by bluelagos |
Is there about 40 of them? |
7, once you remove the alt accounts |  |
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| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 14:06 - Mar 31 with 534 views | positivity |
| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 14:02 - Mar 31 by bluelagos |
Is there about 40 of them? |
i can think of one... |  |
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| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 14:07 - Mar 31 with 527 views | positivity |
| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 14:04 - Mar 31 by J2BLUE |
7, once you remove the alt accounts |
who are all these alt accounts, j2? would like to get some time management advice from them! | |
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| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 14:11 - Mar 31 with 497 views | urbanpenguin |
| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 13:40 - Mar 31 by bluelagos |
Agree most people just argue about it - but allow me to share a thought on the Hillsborough campaign
Had the campaigning been left to the bereaved, nothing would have happened. But a group of fans, Hillsborough Survivors stepped up. They met with the bereaved and jointly created the Hillsborough Justice Campaign.
They refused to be silent and even then, would have achieved nothing without people outside their group. They used social media, refused to take one step back and stood firm on their beliefs.
Of course you are right, many people made big sacrifices but I can tell you not one would look back and not be part of the biggest fight for justice the UK has ever seen.
And like I say, ordinary fans and then fans from other clubs slowly joined in.
Now no-one for a minute is suggesting that the issues of Ashton and Farage are close to the injustice of Hillsborough - of course they are not. But when it comes to a "point of principle" you'd be amazed how people can stand firm.
And for many that it exactly what it is, whether it's facilitating Farage reform, whether it's lying to and disrespecting the fan base or whether it's the contempt shown to Blue Action - many people feel this is wrong and no, we won't simply shut up or move on.
My genuine advice - accept it because I can feel it, and imho when the mood is this strong - the damage is done. The loss of trust is terminal for Ashton - how it plays out, who knows.
But it is just a matter of time imho |
Very true. Last year I met some survivors of Grenfell as they were in Milan for an art exhibition at the Triennale that was focused on injustice and the built landscape, amongst other things. The Grenfell United group of survivors, families and allies has been resolute and powerful. More, they have looked far beyond Grenfell to offer advice and solidarity with community groups from Milan and Madrid (from memory) who also suffered tragic (though thankfully less deadly) huge fires due to combustible cladding and design shortcuts.
These, Hillsborough, Post Office, and also thousands of people that make changes at smaller, often far less visible, levels are ongoing evidence that there is value to protest and that both politics is part of every facet of society and culture, as well as it being something we can all actually impact rather than passively have it happen unto us.
(if interested, the write ups on the Triennale and its themes are here https://www.wallpaper.com/arch and here https://www.wallpaper.com/desi [Post edited 31 Mar 14:13]
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| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 14:24 - Mar 31 with 463 views | bluelagos |
| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 14:11 - Mar 31 by urbanpenguin |
Very true. Last year I met some survivors of Grenfell as they were in Milan for an art exhibition at the Triennale that was focused on injustice and the built landscape, amongst other things. The Grenfell United group of survivors, families and allies has been resolute and powerful. More, they have looked far beyond Grenfell to offer advice and solidarity with community groups from Milan and Madrid (from memory) who also suffered tragic (though thankfully less deadly) huge fires due to combustible cladding and design shortcuts.
These, Hillsborough, Post Office, and also thousands of people that make changes at smaller, often far less visible, levels are ongoing evidence that there is value to protest and that both politics is part of every facet of society and culture, as well as it being something we can all actually impact rather than passively have it happen unto us.
(if interested, the write ups on the Triennale and its themes are here https://www.wallpaper.com/arch and here https://www.wallpaper.com/desi [Post edited 31 Mar 14:13]
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If there's a silver lining for me in being at Hillsborough, it's knowing so many brilliant campaigners. Briefly met the head of Grenfell United (can't remember his name) at Parliament for a Hillsborough Law meeting he was speaking at around 2 years ago.
It just blows you away how much ordinary people can achieve when they are motivated enough.
Funnily enough I remember posting on here 7 years ago saying did anyone seriously think anyone would be held to account? We all know the answer... | |
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| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 14:25 - Mar 31 with 458 views | grow_our_own |
| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 11:13 - Mar 31 by WarkOfTheTown |
Generally, those of us on the left believe in fairness, inclusion and equality. We believe people should pay their fair share of taxes, with the wealthiest paying more than those on lower incomes. We want to protect institutions like the NHS, and we are concerned about climate change.
Those on the right are generally selfish, who take little or no accountability for their actions, and care little for those outside of their family and friendship groups.
Note my use of the word generally |
I think "society-good, liberty-bad" is almost as misguided as "liberty-good, society-bad". Need a mix of these virtues, that's why I vote centrist (generally centre-left). History is littered with great sounding egalitarian ideologies on paper, but when actually applied to real human nature, end in dictatorships and gulags. Public/private ownership isn't always good, more people than just central planners have a functioning brain, absence a strong welfare safety-net is cruel, and markets harness hope: the most powerful human emotion. Need to grow out of the 20th century's false choices between left and right. My political philosophy pitched in a lift. [Post edited 31 Mar 14:27]
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| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 14:31 - Mar 31 with 436 views | Ewan_Oozami |
6 pages in 6 hours?
Dare I look? |  |
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| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 14:33 - Mar 31 with 426 views | TheMoralMajority |
| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 14:31 - Mar 31 by Ewan_Oozami |
6 pages in 6 hours?
Dare I look? |
It started well, improved a bit, and then took a bit of a downwards turn before plateauing. I think there is plenty of scope for this one to still plumb the depths yet. |  |
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| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 14:34 - Mar 31 with 415 views | Bigalhunter |
| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 13:01 - Mar 31 by J2BLUE |
Well obviously you are not going to agree.
I respect your right to disagree, even though I think it's completely wrong. You just tell me i've become a parody.
The next steps are for back up to arrive, move the goalposts, all up vote each other and then finally, once the nightshift begins, release Big Al to come and call us something hilarious like tweedles or dummies. |
I’ll certainly claim tweedles until someone can prove otherwise…
Wtf, it’s still daylight!
My J2 parody radar is all over the place with this woke clock changing nonsense.
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| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 14:41 - Mar 31 with 399 views | Bigalhunter |
| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 14:04 - Mar 31 by J2BLUE |
7, once you remove the alt accounts |
I believe it’s TWTD tradition to request some evidence at this stage?
If only I knew how to do that amusing eating popcorn gif thingy… [Post edited 31 Mar 14:55]
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| This forum has always…. on 14:44 - Mar 31 with 390 views | bartyg |
| This forum has always…. on 11:23 - Mar 31 by J2BLUE |
100% this.
With a rolling cast of the same 10ish core posters with their alt log ins who absolutely dominate any political thread. |
We all got the text that this thread was going up and had our responses ready, didn't you? |  |
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| This forum has always…. on 14:47 - Mar 31 with 382 views | bartyg |
| This forum has always…. on 11:47 - Mar 31 by Benters |
Brilliant post. |
Our own William F. Buckley Jr chimes in. | |
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| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 14:57 - Mar 31 with 350 views | positivity |
| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 14:31 - Mar 31 by Ewan_Oozami |
6 pages in 6 hours?
Dare I look? |
if you ignore the usual suspects trying to derail it, there's some interesting stuff to be had from the adults in the room (left and right) | |
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| This forum has always…. on 14:58 - Mar 31 with 329 views | Benters |
| This forum has always…. on 14:47 - Mar 31 by bartyg |
Our own William F. Buckley Jr chimes in. |
Who? | |
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| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 14:59 - Mar 31 with 330 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 13:14 - Mar 31 by urbanpenguin |
This has been a genuinely interesting and open conversation of a few pages, with questions and answers and insight.
I hope that the few people who have just found the thread and are now throwing out monosyballic comments spend a few minutes to (properly) read through the chat before trying to turn it into the binfire I mentioned in the opening post. |
I'm still working my way through the thread Urbs, I'll get there shortly.... | |
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| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 15:10 - Mar 31 with 274 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 14:57 - Mar 31 by positivity |
if you ignore the usual suspects trying to derail it, there's some interesting stuff to be had from the adults in the room (left and right) |
Have to say, this has been a reasonably polite thread (probably we're all still thinking of Phil's traumas these past few days!), it's a bit of a TWTD soul-searcher following the Ashton revelations and while I've only actually met one regular poster IRL as he had a seat next to me in SBR upper for a while and thought I was a Battenberg hater - soon put him straight on that one!), I feel I know many of you much better following Urbs OP....which I think is a positive thing! | |
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| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 15:35 - Mar 31 with 224 views | Herbivore |
| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 15:10 - Mar 31 by Ewan_Oozami |
Have to say, this has been a reasonably polite thread (probably we're all still thinking of Phil's traumas these past few days!), it's a bit of a TWTD soul-searcher following the Ashton revelations and while I've only actually met one regular poster IRL as he had a seat next to me in SBR upper for a while and thought I was a Battenberg hater - soon put him straight on that one!), I feel I know many of you much better following Urbs OP....which I think is a positive thing! |
Yeah, it stayed pretty civil. A few minor gripes from some but nobody biting too hard on the bait which kept the thread largely on the straight and narrow. |  |
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| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 16:40 - Mar 31 with 140 views | DJR |
My political views were formed during the first of the general elections in 1974 when I was 14 and avidly watched the TV coverage.
Those views were mainstream Labour then and they haven't moved to the right one bit since then.
Sadly, the centre has moved increasingly to the right these last 50 years, with Corbyn's views on things like nationalisation now regarded as hard left, when even the Tories favoured nationalisation back then.
It is also interesting to note that One Nation Tories are no longer welcome in today's Tory Party. [Post edited 31 Mar 16:44]
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| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 16:49 - Mar 31 with 119 views | DJR |
| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 08:46 - Mar 31 by Herbivore |
You probably fall into the classical liberal position really. |
Orange Book (or classical) liberalism and social conservatism was at the heart of the coalition government. [Post edited 31 Mar 17:13]
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| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 16:54 - Mar 31 with 96 views | urbanpenguin |
| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 16:40 - Mar 31 by DJR |
My political views were formed during the first of the general elections in 1974 when I was 14 and avidly watched the TV coverage.
Those views were mainstream Labour then and they haven't moved to the right one bit since then.
Sadly, the centre has moved increasingly to the right these last 50 years, with Corbyn's views on things like nationalisation now regarded as hard left, when even the Tories favoured nationalisation back then.
It is also interesting to note that One Nation Tories are no longer welcome in today's Tory Party. [Post edited 31 Mar 16:44]
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I do find it astounding that people who in the late 80s/early 90s that were commonly thought of as fairly to the right fiscally and socially, people like Major, Hurd et al, are now wheeled out by media as centrists to offer some balance to what is happening with the current Tories and Labour - and I think that speaks volumes over that rightward shift in just 30 years. | | | |
| TWTD is a hotbed of left wingers on 16:59 - Mar 31 with 81 views | DJR |
Changing subjects slightly, why I wonder do I come across so many people who are willing to trot out Trump/Farage/Lowe soundbites when in conversation with me?
It can be total strangers on a bus or neighbours.
Given my nature, I tend to politely go along with it whilst trying to change the subject because from what they say there is no way of persuading them otherwise but this is not something I would ever dream of doing.
Does anyone else experience this sort of thing which I am sure never used to go on?
Indeed, only yesterday in Spain, I spoke to someone in an adjoining property who was waxing lyrical about Lowe in preference to Farage, the irony lost on him that he himself was an immigrant to Spain. [Post edited 31 Mar 17:03]
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