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Eurovision song contest on 12:28 - May 17 by Sarge
Bang on. A lot of people seem to think it’s this contest that pops up out of nowhere once a year but for many of the other countries it’s the end of a months-long public process of national selections and public votes etc.
A lot of people in this country also consider it a joke contest for a bit of a laugh which is not how it’s treated in most other countries. Sweden’s selection process is one of the biggest events of the year, Italy’s is selected via the biggest music festival in the country.
With the exception of last night, good songs tend to do well whether they’re serious or not. Ukraine 2007 being a prime example, bizarre but catchy and memorable. Espresso Machiatto last year was similar in style to ours this year except more put together musically and memorable and thus came third.
Bottom line is aside from a rare success in 2022 we put in crap songs decided by committee in a BBC office somewhere instead of getting the public on board like almost every other successful broadcaster.
[Post edited 17 May 12:29]
Good points. Most music industry experts would tell you that the worst thing you can do is try to write a song specifically FOR a competition, or sync brief.
The best example I can think of for this was Flying The Flag by Scooch. It was 3 minutes of pointing out every Eurovision stereotype they could cram in.
I'm not saying that's what Sam did, and I've got nothing against the guy, but that model will rarely produce a quality song.
Many of the entries are not to my musical taste, but I can appreciate if they have been well written, even if I wouldn't put them on a playlist.
I think you are right that the UK audience has a large contingent that watch it for a laugh, and if it's not taken seriously, why would songwriters want to apply to enter?
Eurovision song contest on 12:39 - May 17 by pointofblue
If you don't mind me asking, why don't you wish to write a song for Eurovision? And if other British songwriters are taking the same approach perhaps that's why we're struggling.
If you check out my previous message to Sarge, you'll see why in there.
If it's considered a 'bit of camp fun, just a laugh' by a large proportion of the UK audience, it's not a huge incentive if you are serious about your art.
The year Sam Ryder won, the promotion campaign was excellent, in the UK and all over Europe. They paired an excellent song with a decent campaign. Exactly what many other countries do. Since then, the promotion has been scant, and the quality of songs poorer.
We had the model to succeed, yet cast it aside with later entries.
I do write songs, but don't care to write one for that competition, thanks.
Enjoy your Sunday. "Try to choose the path of being nice".
[Post edited 17 May 12:01]
Erm, no nerve hit here. I'm just saying it's nonsense to say it's easy - otherwise everyone would be doing it! In what way have I not been nice? I hardly think "claptrap" is particularly offensive!
Erm, no nerve hit here. I'm just saying it's nonsense to say it's easy - otherwise everyone would be doing it! In what way have I not been nice? I hardly think "claptrap" is particularly offensive!
I think the 'if you think it's so easy why don't you write a song?' was a bit passive aggressive. But I had just woken up, so I may have been a bit over sensitive.
Not entirely true. Music taste is, certainly, subjective, however popular music is normally formulaic.
Outside of some exceptions, chart topping music tends to follow certain formulas. Stock, Aitken and Waterman made a career out of it.
(usual caveats apply, your mileage may vary, returns can go down as well as up, consult your medical practitioner)
This isn't chart topping music though, it's Eurovision! Very few, if any, of last night's songs will be hits in the official charts. And very few famous/established artists enter. It's not like the World Cup where we put forward our best players. The UK entry makes the point perfectly - all the sucessful artists this country produces and we put forward an unknown (by the mainstream) youtuber who's never been anywhere near the charts.
I think the 'if you think it's so easy why don't you write a song?' was a bit passive aggressive. But I had just woken up, so I may have been a bit over sensitive.
Blimey, just woken up at midday? Big Eurovision party?!
Good points. Most music industry experts would tell you that the worst thing you can do is try to write a song specifically FOR a competition, or sync brief.
The best example I can think of for this was Flying The Flag by Scooch. It was 3 minutes of pointing out every Eurovision stereotype they could cram in.
I'm not saying that's what Sam did, and I've got nothing against the guy, but that model will rarely produce a quality song.
Many of the entries are not to my musical taste, but I can appreciate if they have been well written, even if I wouldn't put them on a playlist.
I think you are right that the UK audience has a large contingent that watch it for a laugh, and if it's not taken seriously, why would songwriters want to apply to enter?
[Post edited 17 May 12:43]
“ Most music industry experts would tell you that the worst thing you can do is try to write a song specifically FOR a competition”
*ahem*. That didn’t hold back the Scots with this all time classic :)
I quite enjoyed it last night. I thought Sweden would do a lot better than they did, but maybe it was too generic dance. I quite like the ones with haunting voices like Ukraine and the fella with mirrors. And of course the Euro trash metal stuff lol
Just come back from the Balkans and often travel in Eastern Europe and Baltics. There is no hate for UK or their politics transfered to Eurovision. It is purely that our songs have not been up to the production and marketing and the actual song not very good. When we get it together they have no issues with voting for us. Everyone thinks Ireland is loved by Europe and causes no offence and know how to enter a winning song. UK have won it more recently than Ireland. Ireland are in a time warp and the songs they enter are just not very good anymore. I witness their selection process and it is excruciating. UK can win if they enter something that is a winning song.
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Eurovision song contest on 21:34 - May 17 with 436 views
But us taking the piss out of it, including how we broadcast it, is insulting to plenty of Countries. There are Countries that see the Eurovision as an opportunity to show a National identity that has been denied them over years through oppression that isn't always understood by Western Countries. If you are Lithuania and sing a song about Russian oppression in Lithuanian and then get a smug Graham Norton (Irish) making comments about a costume on our National Broadcaster, or whatever, how are you supposed to feel to the UK. The real issue is the UK think it's a joke. Most of the Countries don't for very good reasons.
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Eurovision song contest on 21:42 - May 17 with 429 views
Eurovision song contest on 11:45 - May 17 by redrickstuhaart
Was there not a massive sense of cultural appropriation about the winner? I have literally only seen 30 seconds, but some white Bulgarian women repeatedly making noise with a tone / accent that sounds like some agressive Jamaican ragamuffin type stuff?
No, everything is culrural appropriation if you want to find it.
Eurovision song contest on 21:34 - May 17 by ClareBlue
But us taking the piss out of it, including how we broadcast it, is insulting to plenty of Countries. There are Countries that see the Eurovision as an opportunity to show a National identity that has been denied them over years through oppression that isn't always understood by Western Countries. If you are Lithuania and sing a song about Russian oppression in Lithuanian and then get a smug Graham Norton (Irish) making comments about a costume on our National Broadcaster, or whatever, how are you supposed to feel to the UK. The real issue is the UK think it's a joke. Most of the Countries don't for very good reasons.
So people in Lithuania are watching the BBC and listening to Graham Norton are they?
And he doesn't smugly take the piss out of anyone's national costume. Stop making stuff up.
Eurovision song contest on 21:34 - May 17 by ClareBlue
But us taking the piss out of it, including how we broadcast it, is insulting to plenty of Countries. There are Countries that see the Eurovision as an opportunity to show a National identity that has been denied them over years through oppression that isn't always understood by Western Countries. If you are Lithuania and sing a song about Russian oppression in Lithuanian and then get a smug Graham Norton (Irish) making comments about a costume on our National Broadcaster, or whatever, how are you supposed to feel to the UK. The real issue is the UK think it's a joke. Most of the Countries don't for very good reasons.
Not sure, we did win in 1997, but for example France last won in 1977 and Spain 1969. Some countries just don't write songs that the Eurovision audience like.
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Eurovision song contest on 11:17 - May 18 with 242 views
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