| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich 20:13 - May 26 with 2468 views | ITFC_Essex |
I know that's a bit of an odd reference, but during our last two seasons, there has been a vocal minority wanting Kieran McKenna out, and a larger group questioning whether we have been right to offer him such a big contract and stick by him.
It's worth remembering that not so long ago, Norwich had Daniel Farke, a manager the envy of most of the EFL, who had won them two 2nd division titles and had them playing some good football. On top of that, the off-field progress was huge at Norwich, and the club, on paper, was going places. Because Norwich were not strong in the Premier League, and success was not immediate, Norwich fans, not being the brightest bunch, screamed, shouted, pushed, and prodded until he was out of the door. Norwich were seemingly nothing without Farke and have been stuck, more or less, in the middle of the Championship ever since. Leeds stuck with Farke after he failed to deliver in the first season. He then won his third 2nd tier title with Leeds, and they will be playing in the Premier League again next season under him.
I am going to say something that might upset some, but even if we go down again next season, assuming McKenna wants to be here, he absolutely shouldn't be sacked. Trying to establish Town in the Premier League after so many years falling behind will take time, and might need several goes before we get it right. Sure, I get why he might want to move on, but it is not something we should be hurrying. Seeing people expecting us to sign Bowen, Foden, and co. I just despair. It's very unrealistic. Even if you look at what Sunderland did, they were very lucky all those foreign gems clicked, but that's a once-in-a-decade miracle; we have been there ourselves. It is not the norm and wouldn't necessarily work for us the same way if we went that route either.
I am not saying we will be relegated, we have the perfect scenario this time bar Spurs staying up (as on paper West Ham would have been the weaker prospect) with Coventry and Hull arguably being less prepared than we are for the Premier League, with the likes of Sunderland in Europe, with extra games coming thick and fast, Forest and Palace potentially on the slide and with both Sunderland and Leeds potentially suffering second season syndrome, next season will be as good a chance as any to stay up. Even Everton are due a drop!
Let's stick with it and not push a very good manager out, just because. [Post edited 26 May 20:16]
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| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 20:27 - May 26 with 2361 views | Vic |
Point of order - NO ONE is expecting us to sign Foden or Bowen. I think it was Northsuffolkblue who used their names in irony, but no one has really said we should be after them |  |
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| Ahem on 20:57 - May 26 with 2213 views | unstableblue |
| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 20:27 - May 26 by Vic |
Point of order - NO ONE is expecting us to sign Foden or Bowen. I think it was Northsuffolkblue who used their names in irony, but no one has really said we should be after them |
I did suggest that Bowen was perfect for our team and survival
And that’s the kind of ambition we’ll need to survive
But it was a little tongue in cheek, because he’s a top tier player and extremely unlikely to join Town
Spurs bound perhaps as part of their new look Son, Kane, Kulusevski triumvirate
But you know he’s nearly 30, Essex living (Weill London Essex) and is no longer pushing for England. Why not have a huge impact here??
Nurse nurse increase the medication
I do hope we make some MASSIVE signings though [Post edited 26 May 21:16]
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| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 21:32 - May 26 with 2078 views | jayessess |
I totally agree that we should try and stick with McKenna as long as we possibly can. The thing with coaches is that you have to take a general view of their quality and go with it, don't let difficult patches sway you too much.
That said, if things go badly this season, I suspect we'll be as unreasonable as a fan base as anyone else. [Post edited 26 May 21:32]
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| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 21:33 - May 26 with 2071 views | pointofblue |
I think it depends HOW we go down, if we do go down. If we show signs of improvement on 2024/25, and make a better fight of survival than before, then perhaps the step is still too big, but we're building and 2027/28 could be a Leeds-like push for promotion once again. But if we look even more out of our depth than we did last time, then questions are going to be asked - whether that's of recruitment, tactics or both. |  |
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| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 22:03 - May 26 with 1935 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 20:27 - May 26 by Vic |
Point of order - NO ONE is expecting us to sign Foden or Bowen. I think it was Northsuffolkblue who used their names in irony, but no one has really said we should be after them |
I used them in irony because there had been two threads started by people who seemed to genuinely think they were possible.
Both threads got shot down very quickly. |  |
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| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 22:06 - May 26 with 1921 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
Another thing to note about Farke is that many Leeds fans wanted him out when they weren't promoted first time of asking and there were still many who wanted him gone after they had got promoted!
There will always be impatient fans as well as some trolls. | |
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| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 22:09 - May 26 with 1907 views | BelsteadCav |
👏🏻 |  |
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| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 00:02 - May 27 with 1687 views | ITFC_Essex |
| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 20:27 - May 26 by Vic |
Point of order - NO ONE is expecting us to sign Foden or Bowen. I think it was Northsuffolkblue who used their names in irony, but no one has really said we should be after them |
Social media says otherwise! It's been painful! Delap is awful now too.... apparently. | |
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| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 05:24 - May 27 with 1562 views | LA_Tractor_Boy |
| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 21:33 - May 26 by pointofblue |
I think it depends HOW we go down, if we do go down. If we show signs of improvement on 2024/25, and make a better fight of survival than before, then perhaps the step is still too big, but we're building and 2027/28 could be a Leeds-like push for promotion once again. But if we look even more out of our depth than we did last time, then questions are going to be asked - whether that's of recruitment, tactics or both. |
Agree with this.
The recruitment team have to give KMc the tools to do his job. If the recruitment team don't deliver, we can't blame KMc if we're out of our depth again.
But if they do deliver and KMc doesn't show enough flexibility in his tactics, then questions will rightly be asked of him. | | | |
| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 07:12 - May 27 with 1354 views | Blue_Heath |
| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 21:33 - May 26 by pointofblue |
I think it depends HOW we go down, if we do go down. If we show signs of improvement on 2024/25, and make a better fight of survival than before, then perhaps the step is still too big, but we're building and 2027/28 could be a Leeds-like push for promotion once again. But if we look even more out of our depth than we did last time, then questions are going to be asked - whether that's of recruitment, tactics or both. |
I agree with this, last time around it was Lambertesque at times but having come from L1 in two seasons with a team that over achieved all was forgiven.
I fully expect we will come back down again looking at the league this year. We are reliant on someone having a massive collapse as well as finishing above Hull/Cov with the wildcard of a 60 point deduction for the mancs.
That said I want to see improvement especially the home results and try and get over 30 points which won't be easy. If we come back down on 20 points and one win at home again questions would need to be asked.
A lot of lessons hopefully learnt from this season and last, the amount of gelling time this year was a particular concern given only 38 games in the prem. Can we actually unearth some more Matusiwa types that will be good enough for the prem or will it be more Azon's/Akpom's?
To stay up we need a great start with 25 points by xmas which is more than we got in the whole season last time.
I just hope we can be more competitive and see 3 or 4 wins at home and the odd special away day. | |
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| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 07:15 - May 27 with 1346 views | Churchman |
Excellent post.
There are plenty that want the manager gone. He knows; he’s mentioned it and I still think he might make a step up to a bigger, more established club where he and his team will get strong, unqualified support. I hope not. He has been integral in the growth of this club from the wreckage left by Evans.
Is McKenna the best manager on the planet? Of course not, but he’s a very very good one who is still learning. I like the way his teams try to play football too. As far as I’m concerned he stays as long as he wants to.
He will probably have learned more about managing in the relegation season than the rest of his career put together. You always do when things don’t work out. It’s when you learn about people; the strong and the weak but most of all about yourself.
Nobody has a devine right to success. After 20 years of decline, anyone who claims to support this club will know that. So when you get owners and a manager like we have along with three promotions and a growing club it should be enjoyed and celebrated. What we are witnessing on and off the pitch is astonishing. These are the days, though to read some of the stuff on here you wouldn’t believe it.
We are not Sunderland or anyone else. I’m glad. They got it very right last season and I’m so pleased for them and my mackem chums. But it was a route fraught with risk and while we can learn from it, how they went about it was not necessarily right or possible for every club.
The ambition of our owners should not be questioned and McKenna is right when he says we are starting from a much better place than two years ago. They got plenty wrong last time. It was depressing. But overriding that for me is that they gave it a proper go. They tried and that in any aspect of life is enough - the trick is to keep going, keep improving. Overall I believe they are doing that. [Post edited 27 May 13:00]
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| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 07:31 - May 27 with 1293 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
It was an incredibly small minority that called for KM to go, plenty of us had doubts about whether we were making best use of our huge resources (that includes recruitment as much as on field). I’d definitely want him to stay if we go down - he’s the best man to get us back (3 promotions in 4 years).
I’d like to see some improvement from our last effort up there though, and a more pragmatic style. Playing out from the back, and drawing a high press versus teams like Man City is just suicidal given the gulf in quality. | | | |
| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 07:47 - May 27 with 1233 views | wkj |
Guilty secret, but I found it hard to dislike Farke, even when he was at Norwich |  |
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| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 07:53 - May 27 with 1204 views | Churchman |
| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 07:47 - May 27 by wkj |
Guilty secret, but I found it hard to dislike Farke, even when he was at Norwich |
He always reminds me of the bloke who goes to the electric chair in The Green Mile
Edit: I’ve always thought him ok too. Dirty Leeds were right to stick by him. Good manager. [Post edited 27 May 7:58]
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| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 09:21 - May 27 with 985 views | darkhorse28 |
Why would it take us longer than it did Brighton, Brentford, Bournemouth, Sunderland?
Serious question. Why? If not that Ashton and McKenna as an acis aren’t good enough?
There’s parts of management McKenna clearly isn’t elite at, talent id, and I’ve personally never asked he be sacked, and do actually agree with you, but if we go down again, and assuming we spend £100 million, that will be £300 million on players not good enough to stay in th division, when other clubs, including Leeds, did it for a third of that, it would suggest being miles off good enough.
And while McKenna is young and improving, Ashton is neither.
And BTW. Football moves quickly. Farke was hounded at Leeds when they were behind us with 10 times our resources .., he’s had a great season, clearly a good manager and coach, BUT they’ve had fantastic talent ID, through their owners, some amazing players like Okkfor and Stach.., they’re genuinely a level above any of our signings, and that wasn’t Farke.
If McKenna had Leeds’ talent ID you’d be right, but he doesn’t, he had Mark Ashton, and if we go down, retaining the status quo isn’t the solution.
You can’t spend that amount for failure - you only need to miss out coming back two seasons and your club is finished!!!
You know we did it by ONE point right? Those are the margins.
It’s not possible to keep expecting McKenna coaching to mitigate what is REALLY poor recruitment, it doesn’t work.
If we go down. Ashton had to go. If he hasn’t brought in people MUCH better than him at talent ID.
A 65 year old form a massively failed Man Utd period, looks 100% Mark, control more important tbh an outcomes.
Relegation will be failure…, and when you have world class resources and profile, why wouldn’t you want better?? Ashton out if we go down, out if we stay up (in my world) we can build around McKenna weaknesses, we can’t around Marks.
It does fascinate me tho.
If we’d appointed a Perrera let day, when McKenna lifted his skirt to Brighton, and given him the money we spent…., do you think we’d be better or worse off right now??
Not an easy one. Conjecture. Pretty good chance a manager of that level, would have kept us up, clubs at the bottom of this league can and do attract world class managers, with lots of trophies, networks. And a body of work that dwarfs what we’ve achieved in the EFL.
I don’t know why that wouldn’t be an opportunity rather than a threat.
Huge risk in replacing McKenna unless we are forced to, at any point, buy after another relegation, there will have to be scrutiny.
And I think that’s going to make you feel bad, and quite a few others too, and that’s a shame, because any change when you have these resources, is a massive opportunity to grow and develop MORE, not a threat.
Ashton though. He simply isn’t good enough at this level.
I do hope he proves me very wrong though. Staying up by a point would be a huge success. | | | |
| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 11:10 - May 27 with 867 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
Norwich fans (and board) treated Alex Neill similarly. Another very good manager. He is the one Celtic should go for, if O'Neill re-retires.
I agree with what you say, but hope that Kieran McKenna shows he has learned from last time, though, and adjusts his tactics and system to suit the Premier League.
If we finish third bottom, but take it to the end of the season, then we will have outperformed our pre-season ranking and financial status, and that would indicate progress.
A 20 point season would probably mean that McKenna himself would know that he can't take us any further, and it would be sensible for him to look for a "bigger fish in a smaller pond" situation, where he can play his brand of attacking football and win most games. | | | |
| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 13:34 - May 27 with 693 views | ElderGrizzly |
| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 22:06 - May 26 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Another thing to note about Farke is that many Leeds fans wanted him out when they weren't promoted first time of asking and there were still many who wanted him gone after they had got promoted!
There will always be impatient fans as well as some trolls. |
There are commentators and fans still saying Farke should be sacked now as he is holding them back. |  | | |
| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 13:36 - May 27 with 689 views | Metal_Hacker |
| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 13:34 - May 27 by ElderGrizzly |
There are commentators and fans still saying Farke should be sacked now as he is holding them back. |
I've a number of Leeds supporting mates and work colleagues up here in Yorkshire with that exact same view
"Boring football , holding us back , one dimensional ......" |  |
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| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 13:54 - May 27 with 626 views | farkenhell |
| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 07:47 - May 27 by wkj |
Guilty secret, but I found it hard to dislike Farke, even when he was at Norwich |
Farkenhell! | | | |
| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 14:18 - May 27 with 563 views | farkenhell |
| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 09:21 - May 27 by darkhorse28 |
Why would it take us longer than it did Brighton, Brentford, Bournemouth, Sunderland?
Serious question. Why? If not that Ashton and McKenna as an acis aren’t good enough?
There’s parts of management McKenna clearly isn’t elite at, talent id, and I’ve personally never asked he be sacked, and do actually agree with you, but if we go down again, and assuming we spend £100 million, that will be £300 million on players not good enough to stay in th division, when other clubs, including Leeds, did it for a third of that, it would suggest being miles off good enough.
And while McKenna is young and improving, Ashton is neither.
And BTW. Football moves quickly. Farke was hounded at Leeds when they were behind us with 10 times our resources .., he’s had a great season, clearly a good manager and coach, BUT they’ve had fantastic talent ID, through their owners, some amazing players like Okkfor and Stach.., they’re genuinely a level above any of our signings, and that wasn’t Farke.
If McKenna had Leeds’ talent ID you’d be right, but he doesn’t, he had Mark Ashton, and if we go down, retaining the status quo isn’t the solution.
You can’t spend that amount for failure - you only need to miss out coming back two seasons and your club is finished!!!
You know we did it by ONE point right? Those are the margins.
It’s not possible to keep expecting McKenna coaching to mitigate what is REALLY poor recruitment, it doesn’t work.
If we go down. Ashton had to go. If he hasn’t brought in people MUCH better than him at talent ID.
A 65 year old form a massively failed Man Utd period, looks 100% Mark, control more important tbh an outcomes.
Relegation will be failure…, and when you have world class resources and profile, why wouldn’t you want better?? Ashton out if we go down, out if we stay up (in my world) we can build around McKenna weaknesses, we can’t around Marks.
It does fascinate me tho.
If we’d appointed a Perrera let day, when McKenna lifted his skirt to Brighton, and given him the money we spent…., do you think we’d be better or worse off right now??
Not an easy one. Conjecture. Pretty good chance a manager of that level, would have kept us up, clubs at the bottom of this league can and do attract world class managers, with lots of trophies, networks. And a body of work that dwarfs what we’ve achieved in the EFL.
I don’t know why that wouldn’t be an opportunity rather than a threat.
Huge risk in replacing McKenna unless we are forced to, at any point, buy after another relegation, there will have to be scrutiny.
And I think that’s going to make you feel bad, and quite a few others too, and that’s a shame, because any change when you have these resources, is a massive opportunity to grow and develop MORE, not a threat.
Ashton though. He simply isn’t good enough at this level.
I do hope he proves me very wrong though. Staying up by a point would be a huge success. |
If I've understood you correctly, you want Ashton out if we go down or if we stay up because of his perceived weaknesses. Despite saying that staying up would be a huge success (and I agree with you on that).
You then say that you hope Ashton proves you wrong. What would he need to do to prove you wrong, in light of the fact that if we should achieve "huge success", you would still want him to go anyway? | | | |
| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 17:15 - May 27 with 355 views | Blue_In_Boston |
| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 05:24 - May 27 by LA_Tractor_Boy |
Agree with this.
The recruitment team have to give KMc the tools to do his job. If the recruitment team don't deliver, we can't blame KMc if we're out of our depth again.
But if they do deliver and KMc doesn't show enough flexibility in his tactics, then questions will rightly be asked of him. |
I'm not as forgiving as some, the performance of KMc and the recruitment team in regard to the quality of players brought in, I judge as one. I find it hard to believe that our manager does not have a big say, even a final shout, before a signing is made.
As pointed out earlier in the thread, we are in a good position this time around, as much to do with who we have been promoted alongside, Sunderland in Europe etc... If we are to go down again significant progress needs to have been shown compared to two years ago. | | | |
| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 18:52 - May 27 with 252 views | grow_our_own |
"Ashton though. He simply isn’t good enough at this level." - agreed. Bournemouth showed the leap almost straight from L1 to Prem is possible. Ashton's player research / negotiating was atrocious summer of 2024 and winter 24/25. KM can turn water into wine, but not sewage (Ben Godfrey) into wine. Disappointing that we seem to be retaining him this summer, but if we go down, sacking Ashton should be an absolute no brainer. | | | |
| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 20:34 - May 27 with 132 views | jasondozzell |
| We must learn from Daniel Farke being sacked by Norwich on 07:12 - May 27 by Blue_Heath |
I agree with this, last time around it was Lambertesque at times but having come from L1 in two seasons with a team that over achieved all was forgiven.
I fully expect we will come back down again looking at the league this year. We are reliant on someone having a massive collapse as well as finishing above Hull/Cov with the wildcard of a 60 point deduction for the mancs.
That said I want to see improvement especially the home results and try and get over 30 points which won't be easy. If we come back down on 20 points and one win at home again questions would need to be asked.
A lot of lessons hopefully learnt from this season and last, the amount of gelling time this year was a particular concern given only 38 games in the prem. Can we actually unearth some more Matusiwa types that will be good enough for the prem or will it be more Azon's/Akpom's?
To stay up we need a great start with 25 points by xmas which is more than we got in the whole season last time.
I just hope we can be more competitive and see 3 or 4 wins at home and the odd special away day. |
It was not Lambertesque. Just total nonsense. |  | | |
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