| Controversial I know. 09:49 - Jul 5 with 6989 views | OldFart71 |
Yes I am aware that it's controversial. Probably classed as sexist, but I dislike women commentators/pundits in football.
Before anyone says I don't believe a woman's place is either in the kitchen or the bedroom. They have every right to be on a par with men in any aspect of life. |  | | |  |
| Controversial I know. on 11:37 - Jul 5 with 793 views | Whos_blue |
| Controversial I know. on 11:19 - Jul 5 by lazyblue |
I don’t think is necessary either , it’s purely box ticking and honestly it doesn’t work as well particularly for match commentary. |
In what way is it box ticking?
Does this apply to every woman in any job or just football? |  |
| "Look, I don't wanna be the same as everybody else. That's why I'm a Mod, see?" |
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| Controversial I know. on 11:43 - Jul 5 with 768 views | Churchman |
| Controversial I know. on 11:18 - Jul 5 by Trequartista |
"How can they truly understand it from an expert perspective any more than a male understand women’s football?"
In the same way that many top managers have never played top level football. It's not a sexist argument you are making above, I just feel there is no evidence to back it up. Does Wayne Rooney really have more tactical insight than Emma Hayes? I just don't see it. [Post edited 5 Jul 11:18]
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Second paragraph - I’d be surprised if Rooney had more technical expertise than my cat so no, probably not.
It comes back to the way in which men and women play the game and indeed some other sports like cricket and tennis.
I’ll try and put it another way. Would I prefer a pundit to be say Lee Dixon or a bloke who turned out for Dartford in his prime. Given I detest Dixon’s punditry probably Harry Hapless from Dartford, but in reality, what does Harry know about it never having played at that level? More than me, less than him. If I have to suffer the Shearers or whistling Murphy it has to be better than you, me or Harry.
I’ve never liked pundits if I’m honest and tend to hit the mute switch anyway. They only ever tell you what you’ve just seen so why bother? There was a classic in the 20/20 cricket yesterday. ‘Last season 300 runs were scored’. Later, ‘ought to get 220 for a par score’. End of India’s innings 190 ‘par score’. England bat and after a struggle win with an over to spare. ‘India were 20 runs short’. Thanks Athers and co!
Happy to be challenged on this. It’s just an opinion or a feeling. |  | | |
| Controversial I know. on 11:47 - Jul 5 with 744 views | eireblue |
| Controversial I know. on 11:43 - Jul 5 by Churchman |
Second paragraph - I’d be surprised if Rooney had more technical expertise than my cat so no, probably not.
It comes back to the way in which men and women play the game and indeed some other sports like cricket and tennis.
I’ll try and put it another way. Would I prefer a pundit to be say Lee Dixon or a bloke who turned out for Dartford in his prime. Given I detest Dixon’s punditry probably Harry Hapless from Dartford, but in reality, what does Harry know about it never having played at that level? More than me, less than him. If I have to suffer the Shearers or whistling Murphy it has to be better than you, me or Harry.
I’ve never liked pundits if I’m honest and tend to hit the mute switch anyway. They only ever tell you what you’ve just seen so why bother? There was a classic in the 20/20 cricket yesterday. ‘Last season 300 runs were scored’. Later, ‘ought to get 220 for a par score’. End of India’s innings 190 ‘par score’. England bat and after a struggle win with an over to spare. ‘India were 20 runs short’. Thanks Athers and co!
Happy to be challenged on this. It’s just an opinion or a feeling. |
Have you been coached by a female in a sport? |  | | |
| Controversial I know. on 11:49 - Jul 5 with 741 views | Churchman |
| Controversial I know. on 11:31 - Jul 5 by chicoazul |
So the Champions League final is a different sport from Felixstowe v Sudbury. Except it isn’t , is it. |
But as a preference if I have to suffer a pundit view, I’d prefer to hear it from Hitzlesberger (just how good is his English btw?) than a hoofer from Sudbury.
Same sport, different level. | | | |
| Controversial I know. on 11:50 - Jul 5 with 749 views | Trequartista |
| Controversial I know. on 11:43 - Jul 5 by Churchman |
Second paragraph - I’d be surprised if Rooney had more technical expertise than my cat so no, probably not.
It comes back to the way in which men and women play the game and indeed some other sports like cricket and tennis.
I’ll try and put it another way. Would I prefer a pundit to be say Lee Dixon or a bloke who turned out for Dartford in his prime. Given I detest Dixon’s punditry probably Harry Hapless from Dartford, but in reality, what does Harry know about it never having played at that level? More than me, less than him. If I have to suffer the Shearers or whistling Murphy it has to be better than you, me or Harry.
I’ve never liked pundits if I’m honest and tend to hit the mute switch anyway. They only ever tell you what you’ve just seen so why bother? There was a classic in the 20/20 cricket yesterday. ‘Last season 300 runs were scored’. Later, ‘ought to get 220 for a par score’. End of India’s innings 190 ‘par score’. England bat and after a struggle win with an over to spare. ‘India were 20 runs short’. Thanks Athers and co!
Happy to be challenged on this. It’s just an opinion or a feeling. |
Harry Hapless who made it at as far as Dartford could also be Jose Mourinho who made 35 appearances for local side Grupo Desportivo de Sesimbra though. |  |
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| Controversial I know. on 11:54 - Jul 5 with 728 views | Meadowlark |
| Controversial I know. on 10:05 - Jul 5 by NBVJohn |
That's an important question.
I felt uncomfortable about how irritating I found them, and then I quickly realised that I don't find them any more or less irritating then the male pundits and commentators.
Increasingly I watch games with the sound off. |
As I keep saying, why don't they give us an option of turning off the commentary and just leaving the crowd noise? Must be easy to do. |  | | |
| Controversial I know. on 11:55 - Jul 5 with 724 views | Radlett_blue |
| Controversial I know. on 11:04 - Jul 5 by Churchman |
The OP posed an interesting question. Nothing more.
Mrs C doesn’t like blokes commentating on certain women’s’ sports either for the same reason I gave in the other post. It has nothing to do with a paternal society and her preference is more to do with understanding what they are looking at/expertise than pure gender. Women’s football is different to men’s - it’s as simple as that.
A lot of people hate. It’s not restricted to sex or anything else. Less or more than in the past? One for debate, but it’s a very different world now to say 50 years ago, WW1 and 2 before that where opportunities for women were far more restrictive than they are now. It’s been a long journey and a long way to go (equal pay etc) on so many things.
As it goes I think threads like this do help. Discussing things openly always does. The sort of judgement of your third paragraph in my view doesn’t. The discussion may change minds or otherwise but it’ll do no harm. |
Pundits is more nuanced as there are some terrible male pundits (Rooney etc) but also some equally poor female pundits. However, I rarely listen to the punditry anyway, but I dislike female commentators because I find the higher pitch of their voice irritating, especially when something exciting happens & they start shrieking. This is down to physiology. However, Jason Cundy was hounded off Twitter for saying this some years ago. |  |
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| Controversial I know. on 11:56 - Jul 5 with 708 views | Benters |
I don’t mind as long as they are tasty 😋 [Post edited 5 Jul 11:58]
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| Controversial I know. on 12:00 - Jul 5 with 715 views | ipswichtillidie |
It’s not controversial. Some people like to make it that way but I too prefer the voice of a male commentator rather than that of a female voice. Each to their own I guess. |  |
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| Controversial I know. on 12:02 - Jul 5 with 709 views | Churchman |
| Controversial I know. on 11:47 - Jul 5 by eireblue |
Have you been coached by a female in a sport? |
I went to boys only schools from 11 and pure sporting wise during and after (football, rugby, cricket, squash etc), no.
I have been coached by women in other stuff like different forms of fitness training and the majority of work colleagues over the years were women. I only had one criteria. Good or not good. Simple as that, including who I mentored at the end. They could have been Romulans for all I cared. | | | |
| Controversial I know. on 12:03 - Jul 5 with 704 views | Churchman |
| Controversial I know. on 11:50 - Jul 5 by Trequartista |
Harry Hapless who made it at as far as Dartford could also be Jose Mourinho who made 35 appearances for local side Grupo Desportivo de Sesimbra though. |
Ahh, but Happy H never worked at the highest level as a manager and had a boss like Bobby Robson! | | | |
| Controversial I know. on 12:05 - Jul 5 with 703 views | bartyg |
| Controversial I know. on 11:04 - Jul 5 by Churchman |
The OP posed an interesting question. Nothing more.
Mrs C doesn’t like blokes commentating on certain women’s’ sports either for the same reason I gave in the other post. It has nothing to do with a paternal society and her preference is more to do with understanding what they are looking at/expertise than pure gender. Women’s football is different to men’s - it’s as simple as that.
A lot of people hate. It’s not restricted to sex or anything else. Less or more than in the past? One for debate, but it’s a very different world now to say 50 years ago, WW1 and 2 before that where opportunities for women were far more restrictive than they are now. It’s been a long journey and a long way to go (equal pay etc) on so many things.
As it goes I think threads like this do help. Discussing things openly always does. The sort of judgement of your third paragraph in my view doesn’t. The discussion may change minds or otherwise but it’ll do no harm. |
Some real gutter threads around at the moment but treating this like "legitimate debate" is really embarrassing.
Women aren't from Venus, Men aren't from Mars. There is no inherent advantage that a man would have in understanding or reviewing a football match. I'm not sure how your wife puts up with your patronising views. |  |
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| Controversial I know. on 12:06 - Jul 5 with 684 views | Churchman |
| Controversial I know. on 11:54 - Jul 5 by Meadowlark |
As I keep saying, why don't they give us an option of turning off the commentary and just leaving the crowd noise? Must be easy to do. |
I’d be fully in favour of that. | | | |
| Controversial I know. on 12:08 - Jul 5 with 675 views | Kievthegreat |
| Controversial I know. on 10:26 - Jul 5 by Churchman |
Actually I feel the same. I wondered if it’s sexism. Don’t do isms so no. Is it because it’s a relatively recent phenomena. Maybe, but I don’t think so. Is it because they are no good. No, there’s just as many dreadful male commentators and pundits including the abysmal Shearer and whine merchant Dixon.
I think it’s because women’s football, like cricket and some other sports, is fundamentally different. How can they truly understand it from an expert perspective any more than a male understand women’s football?
The contradiction is that I have no problem with it with things like athletics, gymnastics, winter sports so maybe it comes down to familiarity.
I have no problem with women like Scott, Logan and Cates (all excellent) chairing panels but somehow that’s different.
Just for balance, Mrs C feels the same way. The one that drives her nuts is the cricket commentator Lydia Greenway, or Lydia Dustbin, as she likes to call her.
An interesting thread/question. |
"women’s football, like cricket and some other sports, is fundamentally different."
This is a weird take. They play the same rules as men. It's different players and different tactics, different physicality. However those things are just as prevalent in different leagues and levels of men's football. Braintree Town and Barcelona still play the same sport in the same way that Ipswich Men and Women's do. Different teams, styles physicality and skill, but still the same sport.
"The contradiction is that I have no problem with it with things like athletics, gymnastics, winter sports so maybe it comes down to familiarity.", ".there’s just as many dreadful male commentators"
It feels like you're so close to recognising something you excused yourself of without any cause at the start of your post. |  | | |
| Controversial I know. on 12:08 - Jul 5 with 666 views | Smoresy |
| Controversial I know. on 11:19 - Jul 5 by Churchman |
You’ve lost me on that one. |
Do you feel the same about male commentators who didn't play the game to a notable level? Quick examples off the top of my head would be Bruce-Ball, John Murray, Martin Tyler, Peter Drury, John Motson, Barry Davies, Kenneth Wolstenholme.. actually, off the top of my head I don't know of a male lead commentator who enjoyed a professional career prior to broadcasting.
And do you feel the same about male pundits who never played? R5L's regular contributors include Julien Laurens, Tim Vickery, Guilem Balague, "statman Dave".. I find the journalists and analysts often to be more insightful and engaging than your Rooney and Giroud, personally.
If you have issues with the above too then you're being consistent. Otherwise, it looks probable that your issue is simply women's voices and faces in the man cave rather than anything more substantial than that. Because women are equally capable of using their brains to study, watch and opine on the men's game obviously, much as they can't play elite men's football (something they share with 99.9% of men, including Mourinho and McKenna). | | | |
| Controversial I know. on 12:09 - Jul 5 with 656 views | Ryorry |
| Controversial I know. on 12:06 - Jul 5 by Churchman |
I’d be fully in favour of that. |
It's available on my 2014 Sony 40" TV - 'football mode' enables you to watch/hear a match as if you were sitting in the crowd. |  |
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| Controversial I know. on 12:11 - Jul 5 with 630 views | chicoazul |
| Controversial I know. on 11:49 - Jul 5 by Churchman |
But as a preference if I have to suffer a pundit view, I’d prefer to hear it from Hitzlesberger (just how good is his English btw?) than a hoofer from Sudbury.
Same sport, different level. |
So it is the same sport. We got there in the end. |  |
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| Controversial I know. on 12:14 - Jul 5 with 627 views | Trequartista |
| Controversial I know. on 12:03 - Jul 5 by Churchman |
Ahh, but Happy H never worked at the highest level as a manager and had a boss like Bobby Robson! |
Sure but if countless people who have not played at the highest level have the insight to become top managers at the top level, with or without the mentorship of Sir Bobby, then it follows that countless people from the same pool of those having not played at the highest level can handle a bit of punditry. [Post edited 5 Jul 12:14]
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| Controversial I know. on 12:14 - Jul 5 with 607 views | eireblue |
| Controversial I know. on 12:02 - Jul 5 by Churchman |
I went to boys only schools from 11 and pure sporting wise during and after (football, rugby, cricket, squash etc), no.
I have been coached by women in other stuff like different forms of fitness training and the majority of work colleagues over the years were women. I only had one criteria. Good or not good. Simple as that, including who I mentored at the end. They could have been Romulans for all I cared. |
So they weren’t worse, and improved you if they were good.
So same as men then. | | | |
| Controversial I know. on 12:18 - Jul 5 with 589 views | Churchman |
| Controversial I know. on 12:14 - Jul 5 by eireblue |
So they weren’t worse, and improved you if they were good.
So same as men then. |
Of course. If somebody improves you they do just that. If there is somebody more qualified than them who do you prefer? | | | |
| Controversial I know. on 12:23 - Jul 5 with 567 views | Trequartista |
| Controversial I know. on 12:05 - Jul 5 by bartyg |
Some real gutter threads around at the moment but treating this like "legitimate debate" is really embarrassing.
Women aren't from Venus, Men aren't from Mars. There is no inherent advantage that a man would have in understanding or reviewing a football match. I'm not sure how your wife puts up with your patronising views. |
I oppose the argument put forward by Churchman, but that's a misrepresentation of his position, he has made it clear that his opinion also applies to men who have not played at the highest level. | |
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| Controversial I know. on 12:24 - Jul 5 with 556 views | Churchman |
| Controversial I know. on 12:05 - Jul 5 by bartyg |
Some real gutter threads around at the moment but treating this like "legitimate debate" is really embarrassing.
Women aren't from Venus, Men aren't from Mars. There is no inherent advantage that a man would have in understanding or reviewing a football match. I'm not sure how your wife puts up with your patronising views. |
The OP perfectly positioned the thread. I believe it’s a legitimate debate. You don’t. That’s fine, you are entitled to your opinion.
What my wife puts up with or doesn’t has nothing whatsoever to do with you. As for patronising a definition is ‘speaking or behaving towards someone in a way that seems friendly, but actually displays a sense of superiority.’
At no time whatsoever have I displayed any sense of superiority in this discussion. It’s purely about offering a view that may or may not be challenged. | | | |
| Controversial I know. on 12:34 - Jul 5 with 518 views | Churchman |
| Controversial I know. on 12:08 - Jul 5 by Smoresy |
Do you feel the same about male commentators who didn't play the game to a notable level? Quick examples off the top of my head would be Bruce-Ball, John Murray, Martin Tyler, Peter Drury, John Motson, Barry Davies, Kenneth Wolstenholme.. actually, off the top of my head I don't know of a male lead commentator who enjoyed a professional career prior to broadcasting.
And do you feel the same about male pundits who never played? R5L's regular contributors include Julien Laurens, Tim Vickery, Guilem Balague, "statman Dave".. I find the journalists and analysts often to be more insightful and engaging than your Rooney and Giroud, personally.
If you have issues with the above too then you're being consistent. Otherwise, it looks probable that your issue is simply women's voices and faces in the man cave rather than anything more substantial than that. Because women are equally capable of using their brains to study, watch and opine on the men's game obviously, much as they can't play elite men's football (something they share with 99.9% of men, including Mourinho and McKenna). |
Barry Davies, the great Peter Jones did commentary on the game. They related what was happening not offering an opinion on it (if they did it was rare). You could listen and you felt like you were at the game. Punditry now is a series of opinions. It’s different as far as I’m concerned.
Second paragraph - I’m not entirely sure who those people are apart from Balague who I think is a journalist. Assuming I’m right, no wouldn’t have any time for them (don’t listen to the radio sport much in fear of hearing the appalling Jim White and friends).
As far as voices are concerned, I actually prefer the sound of women’s voices and I don’t have a man cave. | | | |
| Controversial I know. on 12:35 - Jul 5 with 507 views | Churchman |
| Controversial I know. on 12:09 - Jul 5 by Ryorry |
It's available on my 2014 Sony 40" TV - 'football mode' enables you to watch/hear a match as if you were sitting in the crowd. |
I’ve got a Sony tv. I’ll try that! Ta! | | | |
| Controversial I know. on 12:40 - Jul 5 with 483 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Controversial I know. on 10:10 - Jul 5 by Mullet |
Some are good, some are ok, some are sh1t just like the men. The fact that they’re women which bothers you is sexist though. There’s not a debate about that. |
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