| Wise after the event. 15:37 - Jul 16 with 2554 views | carlo88 |
I played the match back again today, very different when you're not emotionally involved anymore. Thing that struck me most was that neither the BBC commentator or co-commentator Alan Shearer or the studio guests made even a squeak of a reference or criticism of the defensive subs until after they equalised. Soon as the match was finished they were all piling in, including the studio. And according to all the media today it was all so obvious. |  | | |  |
| Wise after the event. on 15:41 - Jul 16 with 2259 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
Not in every WhatsApp group I was in or people I was with, screaming at the TV watching it happen in real time. |  |
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| Wise after the event. on 15:41 - Jul 16 with 2261 views | RadioOrwell |
The second I saw Gordon replaced with a defender I said …. Oh we’ve fkd it. |  | | |
| Wise after the event. on 15:42 - Jul 16 with 2258 views | BlueBadger |
On one hand, the job of the commentary team is to report events as they happen which not allow for insights and analysis, however on the other, Shearer is a terrible 'expert' summariser who has Fanous Roy levels of insight but without the Press Conference King's entertainment factor. [Post edited 16 Jul 17:40]
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| Wise after the event. on 15:44 - Jul 16 with 2225 views | You_Bloo_Right |
More a reflection on the quality of commentator, co-commentator and studio pundits if you ask me.
Which, of course, you didn't but there it is. |  |
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| Wise after the event. on 15:46 - Jul 16 with 2218 views | J2BLUE |
I said to my dad, surely we are not going to sit back for 30 mins?
We barely left our half. It was like a game of Wembley and we chose to be the defence.
Imagine saying to Argentina they can have half an hour all out attack against all out defence. They would have jumped at it. |  | | |
| Wise after the event. on 15:46 - Jul 16 with 2215 views | TractorJack |
Me and my mate both turned to each other on 62 mins and said we can't sit this deep for the rest of the game. |  | | |
| Wise after the event. on 15:49 - Jul 16 with 2185 views | carlo88 |
Agree with everything said and I couldn't believe he took Gordon off. Didn't seem to bother Shearer & chums though. | | | |
| Wise after the event. on 15:49 - Jul 16 with 2173 views | Benters |
| Wise after the event. on 15:46 - Jul 16 by J2BLUE |
I said to my dad, surely we are not going to sit back for 30 mins?
We barely left our half. It was like a game of Wembley and we chose to be the defence.
Imagine saying to Argentina they can have half an hour all out attack against all out defence. They would have jumped at it. |
It truly was bonkers to think that was the right thing to do.
Even my cats knew it was wrong. |  |
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| Wise after the event. on 16:00 - Jul 16 with 2071 views | badadski |
| Wise after the event. on 15:49 - Jul 16 by Benters |
It truly was bonkers to think that was the right thing to do.
Even my cats knew it was wrong. |
It was amazingly bad game management from Tuchel, worse than pub league.
Enzo was taking pot shots and getting closer and closr each time until he scored, Messi was given the freedom of the whole midfield due to midfielders being able to cover the massive expanse we left by bringing on so many defenders. It was suicide, how many times did we let them have the same, dangerous short corner and still no one went to pick up Messi from them all game. The same for allowing Enzo to have the ball in space and shoot.
Literally Enzo, Messi and Mccallister have been the dangerous 3 for the majority of the tournament. Tuchek could have literally brought on Rashford, Saka and Madueke to shadow them and run non stop for 25 minutes and that would have likely been job done but no, he brings on defenders and gives them the freedom of Amercia to dictate play and swing balls into the box or play to the edge of our box time and time again due to no one being able to harry them.
He should be having nightmares for the rest of his life over his decisions, if he had gone for what he said he was going to do and swap it up and continue attacking but then we lose then so be it, but to go against his own methodology and turn into Southgate is unforgivable. The irony is if Henderson had not fallen over like an old man he could have been 1 of the 3 players to help in the last 20 minutes needed. oh well |  | | |
| Wise after the event. on 16:43 - Jul 16 with 1790 views | LeoMuff |
| Wise after the event. on 16:00 - Jul 16 by badadski |
It was amazingly bad game management from Tuchel, worse than pub league.
Enzo was taking pot shots and getting closer and closr each time until he scored, Messi was given the freedom of the whole midfield due to midfielders being able to cover the massive expanse we left by bringing on so many defenders. It was suicide, how many times did we let them have the same, dangerous short corner and still no one went to pick up Messi from them all game. The same for allowing Enzo to have the ball in space and shoot.
Literally Enzo, Messi and Mccallister have been the dangerous 3 for the majority of the tournament. Tuchek could have literally brought on Rashford, Saka and Madueke to shadow them and run non stop for 25 minutes and that would have likely been job done but no, he brings on defenders and gives them the freedom of Amercia to dictate play and swing balls into the box or play to the edge of our box time and time again due to no one being able to harry them.
He should be having nightmares for the rest of his life over his decisions, if he had gone for what he said he was going to do and swap it up and continue attacking but then we lose then so be it, but to go against his own methodology and turn into Southgate is unforgivable. The irony is if Henderson had not fallen over like an old man he could have been 1 of the 3 players to help in the last 20 minutes needed. oh well |
Was exactly what he was specially employed not to do, Croatia, Italy, France in euros and world cups.
So frustrating that we had them exactly where we wanted them chasing the game 1-0 down with 20 mins left, a situation made for fast attacking wingers/strikers Watkins, Saka, Maduake, Eze, Rashford.
The one thing you don’t do of sitting back is leave on your 33 year old striker without pace, and take off your midfielders that can pick a pass and hold the ball under pressure.
If you sit deep you have to have pace on to make them think twice about encamping on your 18 yard line, we had reams of it on the bench and got Burn, Konza, O Reilly
Absolute mind blowing decisions, I would like explanations in some form over the next few weeks as to why, as Tuchel is paid huge cash to do the opposite of last night. |  |
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| Wise after the event. on 17:04 - Jul 16 with 1673 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| Wise after the event. on 16:43 - Jul 16 by LeoMuff |
Was exactly what he was specially employed not to do, Croatia, Italy, France in euros and world cups.
So frustrating that we had them exactly where we wanted them chasing the game 1-0 down with 20 mins left, a situation made for fast attacking wingers/strikers Watkins, Saka, Maduake, Eze, Rashford.
The one thing you don’t do of sitting back is leave on your 33 year old striker without pace, and take off your midfielders that can pick a pass and hold the ball under pressure.
If you sit deep you have to have pace on to make them think twice about encamping on your 18 yard line, we had reams of it on the bench and got Burn, Konza, O Reilly
Absolute mind blowing decisions, I would like explanations in some form over the next few weeks as to why, as Tuchel is paid huge cash to do the opposite of last night. |
He should be fired. It's not like a club game where you can try something different next week, that was the moment.
What an earth is the point in extending him before a ball was kicked in USA? | |
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| Wise after the event. on 17:46 - Jul 16 with 1534 views | Ftnfwest |
I did find that pretty unsavoury tbh. The one who defended them for the tournament as a whole was Joe hart, far more measured. Clear the previous two games had taken a lot out of them but the pundits were practically saying that tuchel instructed them to drop deep. They clearly did that automatically and reacted/panicked on that later on. Yes was surprised when he didn’t replace Gordon with Rashford at that point. |  | | |
| Wise after the event. on 17:53 - Jul 16 with 1495 views | mellowblue |
glutton for punishment, it won't get any better ! | | | |
| Wise after the event. on 17:54 - Jul 16 with 1488 views | Swansea_Blue |
It shows that we’re far more observant/ clued up than the commentators and pundits then, as people were going nuts on here from about 60 mins. Or as nuts as we go. More tutting loudly and politely suggesting we were playing a dangerous game. Of course, we’d done the same defensive shut out in the two previous games, so a little bit of you hoped it would work again despite all the evidence that it wasn’t working. |  |
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| Wise after the event. on 17:55 - Jul 16 with 1484 views | nrb1985 |
| Wise after the event. on 17:04 - Jul 16 by Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
He should be fired. It's not like a club game where you can try something different next week, that was the moment.
What an earth is the point in extending him before a ball was kicked in USA? |
I don’t blame them for extending. If he’d had a brilliant tournament he could have walked away for free this summer to a good job.
Nobody could have forseen how spectacularly he’d sh1t the bed last night though.
I do agree though, he should probably get his P45 after that. I guess cost of paying up his contract and lack of available alternatives will prevent that though. | | | |
| Wise after the event. on 18:00 - Jul 16 with 1457 views | Vic |
| Wise after the event. on 16:00 - Jul 16 by badadski |
It was amazingly bad game management from Tuchel, worse than pub league.
Enzo was taking pot shots and getting closer and closr each time until he scored, Messi was given the freedom of the whole midfield due to midfielders being able to cover the massive expanse we left by bringing on so many defenders. It was suicide, how many times did we let them have the same, dangerous short corner and still no one went to pick up Messi from them all game. The same for allowing Enzo to have the ball in space and shoot.
Literally Enzo, Messi and Mccallister have been the dangerous 3 for the majority of the tournament. Tuchek could have literally brought on Rashford, Saka and Madueke to shadow them and run non stop for 25 minutes and that would have likely been job done but no, he brings on defenders and gives them the freedom of Amercia to dictate play and swing balls into the box or play to the edge of our box time and time again due to no one being able to harry them.
He should be having nightmares for the rest of his life over his decisions, if he had gone for what he said he was going to do and swap it up and continue attacking but then we lose then so be it, but to go against his own methodology and turn into Southgate is unforgivable. The irony is if Henderson had not fallen over like an old man he could have been 1 of the 3 players to help in the last 20 minutes needed. oh well |
FWIW - my thoughts. We'd lost it well before the subs and their goal. As soon as we scored we seemed to lose any ability to close them down as we had been doing so effectively. We dropped further and further back until all 10 outfield players were often on or around our pen area.
I'm struggling to believe that this was Tuchels idea. Surely this has to be down to the players. |  |
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| Wise after the event. on 18:04 - Jul 16 with 1448 views | LeoMuff |
| Wise after the event. on 17:46 - Jul 16 by Ftnfwest |
I did find that pretty unsavoury tbh. The one who defended them for the tournament as a whole was Joe hart, far more measured. Clear the previous two games had taken a lot out of them but the pundits were practically saying that tuchel instructed them to drop deep. They clearly did that automatically and reacted/panicked on that later on. Yes was surprised when he didn’t replace Gordon with Rashford at that point. |
We had the players on the bench to give extra legs and pace to move up the pitch, we did the opposite by putting on defenders, those players had been used sparingly and would be fully up to 20 mins plus ET.
I don’t know what Tuchel instructed them to do, but putting on defenders who aren’t going to retain the ball to get you up the pitch will have that effect. Just before they scored we had 6 defenders on plus Kane, Bellingham and Roger’s who looked spent.
I doubt anyone would criticise if he had gone with Saka, Rashford, Mainoo, Maduaeke and lost 2-1.
Why keep Kane on and Rogers ? Baffling . | |
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| Wise after the event. on 18:07 - Jul 16 with 1416 views | GlasgowBlue |
It was pretty obvious in real time that we were inviting far too much pressure on ourselves after going ahead.
If an idiot like me could see it then surely TT should have done. [Post edited 16 Jul 18:11]
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| Wise after the event. on 18:36 - Jul 16 with 1313 views | Garv |
| Wise after the event. on 18:00 - Jul 16 by Vic |
FWIW - my thoughts. We'd lost it well before the subs and their goal. As soon as we scored we seemed to lose any ability to close them down as we had been doing so effectively. We dropped further and further back until all 10 outfield players were often on or around our pen area.
I'm struggling to believe that this was Tuchels idea. Surely this has to be down to the players. |
Players are getting off lightly here.
Tuchel made the subs that suited the way his team was playing, one could argue.
But yes obviously he should have been more positive.
Collective disaster really. |  |
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| Wise after the event. on 19:03 - Jul 16 with 1216 views | J2BLUE |
| Wise after the event. on 18:36 - Jul 16 by Garv |
Players are getting off lightly here.
Tuchel made the subs that suited the way his team was playing, one could argue.
But yes obviously he should have been more positive.
Collective disaster really. |
Every week you see managers on TV telling their players to get up the pitch and press rather than retreat back towards goal.
England didn't seem willing to cross the halfway line. I have never seen anything like that before in a game like this with two evenly matched teams. A non league team away to Man City in the cup? Fine, minimise the damage. England in a semi final against a team with that attacking talent? Madness. | | | |
| Wise after the event. on 19:14 - Jul 16 with 1197 views | armchaircritic59 |
For me it's a 50/50 split. Tuchel and players. No doubt the subs were on the more negative than positive side. However I somehow think he didn't say to them something like " Ok guys, we need to see if we can close this up now and keep it tight, and I don't want to see one single attempt at an attacking move ". There were still players out there who most certainly could do it, but didn't. Argentina are weakest at full back positions, as we saw but never got tested after 55 minutes. We played with no more than 10 men or less for virtually the entire match after Paredes had " Psyched " Bellingham out almost from the start with a " welcome to the game " tackle. Bellingham turned round and laughed at him. Well Paredes had the last laugh, about 90+ minutes of it, as Bellingham completely disappeared out of the game and didn't want to know. Kane was not much better. The two world class stars that we have, pretty much both anonymous. 9 man team? If so, it's a combination of a miracle and luck that we only lost by one. Negative mindset with modern day coaches isn't helping the game for sure, but it's not all down to them, though quite a lot is, it's true. |  | | |
| Wise after the event. on 20:05 - Jul 16 with 1121 views | Leaky |
| Wise after the event. on 18:07 - Jul 16 by GlasgowBlue |
It was pretty obvious in real time that we were inviting far too much pressure on ourselves after going ahead.
If an idiot like me could see it then surely TT should have done. [Post edited 16 Jul 18:11]
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Seems like we are all idiots then as we all saw it. We were either to win 1-0 or lose.As soon as they equalised we were on our way home and I think the players new it. [Post edited 16 Jul 20:08]
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| Wise after the event. on 02:42 - Jul 17 with 812 views | Kropotkin123 |
My family/friend group chat was saying it. I live in Vancouver, I was watching it in a meeting room with Canadians and other nationalities. A French coworker was messaging their French mates back home. Everyone saying exactly the same thing. No outlet, not stop crosses getting into the box, subs too defensive, almost inevitable that England will concede.
To pretend that it is people being wise after the fact is more crazy then persisting Tuchel persisting with the tactics and personnel changes. |  |
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| Wise after the event. on 06:03 - Jul 17 with 731 views | Benters |
| Wise after the event. on 18:04 - Jul 16 by LeoMuff |
We had the players on the bench to give extra legs and pace to move up the pitch, we did the opposite by putting on defenders, those players had been used sparingly and would be fully up to 20 mins plus ET.
I don’t know what Tuchel instructed them to do, but putting on defenders who aren’t going to retain the ball to get you up the pitch will have that effect. Just before they scored we had 6 defenders on plus Kane, Bellingham and Roger’s who looked spent.
I doubt anyone would criticise if he had gone with Saka, Rashford, Mainoo, Maduaeke and lost 2-1.
Why keep Kane on and Rogers ? Baffling . |
It was never going to happen fancy try to sit back for 30 mins against Argentina. | |
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| Wise after the event. on 06:31 - Jul 17 with 690 views | franz_tyson |
If it's all on the players and part of the England DNA..... why even pay 5 million quid a year for an elite coach to NOT being able to influence his team?
Sorry, but we've some world class players who play abroad and for top clubs in the PL and who also are experienced at Champions League level. So their minds go to mush when they' take a lead 30-35 minutes from the end? 55 minutes of going toe to toe with a team .... and then having the audacity of scoring.... and then becoming the most timid, nervous Nellie's of all time was so bizarre.
The substitutions are everything. Just simply keep on doing what you're doing and put on like for like. He changed the side completely by putting on defenders and effectively sending us back into our own penalty area. Why didn't he see this and try to get us back playing up the field? It' was an absolute gift to the opposition.
When nothing needs changing ( apart from fresh legs) isn't the smartest thing to do is the very least? This is on Tuchel .... who wanted to make this a masterclass of coaching on the world stage.... and it backfired spectaculary. | | | |
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