| Social care 09:33 - Jul 27 with 2888 views | LeoMuff |
Why is Burnham not allowed to raise taxes to solve social care ? Seems an odd take from Kemi.
Considering the cost and scale of the problem surely it’s inevitable and I would certainly pay extra for it, you can’t truly fix the health service without solving this.
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| Social care on 09:35 - Jul 27 with 1914 views | NthQldITFC |
Even from the perspective of the anti-tax brigade, you'd think that it would be clear that such a move would pay back handsomely within five years or so. |  |
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| Social care on 09:36 - Jul 27 with 1903 views | BlueBadger |
Look, if the better off have to actually do something to support the country they live in rather than cream off huge amounts of money whilst avoiding taxes through accountancy loopholes I think we can all agree that that's the nightmare scenario. |  |
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| Social care on 09:47 - Jul 27 with 1839 views | ElderGrizzly |
Farage was objecting to it too, off the back of any tax rises. And as a second hammer blow, they would make it more expensive to employ those who are traditionally employed in social care
https://www.theguardian.com/po
Badenoch wants austerity-like measures for other departments to pay for it. There is nothing left to cut, especially with a renewed commitment to 3.5% on defence.
I did like a proposal I heard over the weekend though.
Landlords who own more than 2 houses have a steeply increasing council tax and stamp duty to pay. It's already 100% more for Council Tax where I live for a 2nd home, but I'd heard proposals of that becoming 200% for the next, 250% for the 3rd extra.
And each new home bought over the two would attract the maximum 12% stamp duty no matter the value - normally that band is for over £1.5m
We also need the 2% wealth tax proposed before on assets over £10m. [Post edited 27 Jul 9:49]
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| Social care on 09:53 - Jul 27 with 1799 views | GavTWTD |
He "cant" raise taxes as it would be against the manifesto. I get that so it'd have to be in the next one should he make it. Might be wise anyway. Hes got a lot to get on with and be more clued up to whats required |  |
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| Social care on 09:57 - Jul 27 with 1744 views | Swansea_Blue |
That’s goes against the cultist ideology of the likes of the IEA, as brought to us by Liz Truss and Kwasi Kwarteng. And given the amount of coverage the IEA get, everyone thinks unfounded tax cuts are the only way forward. Which is bizarre given that the last experiment lead to some of the largest drops in household available income in modern times (for mortgage holders).
Although there’s also a genuine issue with especially lower to median earners having been disproportionately hit by Osbourne’s austerity and welfare cuts and Hunt’s freezing of tax thresholds. So with people feeling financially squeezed (even if personal effective tax rates are low by historic standards) I can understand why there would be opposition to paying more tax (more than usual - nobody really wants to pay more tax at any time). |  |
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| Social care on 10:00 - Jul 27 with 1716 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Social care on 09:53 - Jul 27 by GavTWTD |
He "cant" raise taxes as it would be against the manifesto. I get that so it'd have to be in the next one should he make it. Might be wise anyway. Hes got a lot to get on with and be more clued up to whats required |
Isn’t the manifesto commitment only for a few core taxes? He must have a lot of wiggle room around the sides of those. | |
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| Social care on 10:38 - Jul 27 with 1586 views | BrianTablet |
I think you are confusing Badenoch's motivation to actually make a positive change to society with her motivation to 'win' a political battle and gain power. |  |
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| Social care on 10:40 - Jul 27 with 1568 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Social care on 10:00 - Jul 27 by Swansea_Blue |
Isn’t the manifesto commitment only for a few core taxes? He must have a lot of wiggle room around the sides of those. |
Given most previous Governments put their fingers in their ears and said "what manifesto", I'd hope they are bolder in their vision.
We don't need to go back to the country. Labour has a 5 year mandate effectively and if the same outcome is achieved, we shouldn't be whining about how we get there.
I saw a Tory stooge last night saying because week 1 went well for Burnham he'll call an election in the Autumn. Why?! He has a working majority of 166. He can literally do anything.
Why have an election and risk that being destroyed?
It's what annoyed me with Biden and the Democrats in the USA too, when they had both houses and the Presidency. They did feck all with it. [Post edited 27 Jul 10:41]
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| Social care on 10:42 - Jul 27 with 1546 views | chicoazul |
Because we already pay gigantic levels of tax and get next to fck all for it? |  |
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| Social care on 10:49 - Jul 27 with 1506 views | Plums |
| Social care on 09:47 - Jul 27 by ElderGrizzly |
Farage was objecting to it too, off the back of any tax rises. And as a second hammer blow, they would make it more expensive to employ those who are traditionally employed in social care
https://www.theguardian.com/po
Badenoch wants austerity-like measures for other departments to pay for it. There is nothing left to cut, especially with a renewed commitment to 3.5% on defence.
I did like a proposal I heard over the weekend though.
Landlords who own more than 2 houses have a steeply increasing council tax and stamp duty to pay. It's already 100% more for Council Tax where I live for a 2nd home, but I'd heard proposals of that becoming 200% for the next, 250% for the 3rd extra.
And each new home bought over the two would attract the maximum 12% stamp duty no matter the value - normally that band is for over £1.5m
We also need the 2% wealth tax proposed before on assets over £10m. [Post edited 27 Jul 9:49]
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We should also introduce a business rate escalator for landlords who leave high street commercial premises empty. |  |
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| Social care on 11:07 - Jul 27 with 1440 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Social care on 10:49 - Jul 27 by Plums |
We should also introduce a business rate escalator for landlords who leave high street commercial premises empty. |
Leave them empty and then amazingly apply for permission for housing conversion | | | |
| Social care on 11:15 - Jul 27 with 1424 views | J2BLUE |
| Social care on 10:42 - Jul 27 by chicoazul |
Because we already pay gigantic levels of tax and get next to fck all for it? |
Agree.
Yet we still spend far more than we take in taxes. With NHS, military and social care bills going up it seems pretty obvious we need to cut spending in some areas. As soon as it's mentioned people start shouting about austerity. No one would manage their household finances like that but for the country it seems to be absolutely fine. |  | | |
| Social care on 11:32 - Jul 27 with 1384 views | bluelagos |
| Social care on 10:42 - Jul 27 by chicoazul |
Because we already pay gigantic levels of tax and get next to fck all for it? |
NHS, Education, roads, fire and emergency services, state pension, unemployment and sick benefits, bins collected, our defences...
What did our taxes ever do for any of us eh Chico. |  |
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| Social care on 11:42 - Jul 27 with 1337 views | underspaces |
The proposed changes are set to cost £18.5bn per year.
We could just use the 'Trump tax' of an extra £20bn per year for branded medicines to solve social care. Would be a much better use of money considering NICE are only predicting an extra 3 new medicines getting through appraisal every year with the doubling of meds expenditure.
Will be something for DHSC to ponder! |  | | |
| Social care on 11:45 - Jul 27 with 1329 views | Churchman |
| Social care on 11:15 - Jul 27 by J2BLUE |
Agree.
Yet we still spend far more than we take in taxes. With NHS, military and social care bills going up it seems pretty obvious we need to cut spending in some areas. As soon as it's mentioned people start shouting about austerity. No one would manage their household finances like that but for the country it seems to be absolutely fine. |
Attached is some stats on government spending.
https://www.gov.uk/government/
The health and social care budget is the big one. |  | | |
| Social care on 11:58 - Jul 27 with 1268 views | bluestandard |
| Social care on 09:47 - Jul 27 by ElderGrizzly |
Farage was objecting to it too, off the back of any tax rises. And as a second hammer blow, they would make it more expensive to employ those who are traditionally employed in social care
https://www.theguardian.com/po
Badenoch wants austerity-like measures for other departments to pay for it. There is nothing left to cut, especially with a renewed commitment to 3.5% on defence.
I did like a proposal I heard over the weekend though.
Landlords who own more than 2 houses have a steeply increasing council tax and stamp duty to pay. It's already 100% more for Council Tax where I live for a 2nd home, but I'd heard proposals of that becoming 200% for the next, 250% for the 3rd extra.
And each new home bought over the two would attract the maximum 12% stamp duty no matter the value - normally that band is for over £1.5m
We also need the 2% wealth tax proposed before on assets over £10m. [Post edited 27 Jul 9:49]
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It really amazes me how much vitriol there seems to be for landlords these days. Bearing in mind that it would seem that its the small landlord which is attracting the greatest ire. Why? |  | | |
| Social care on 12:07 - Jul 27 with 1228 views | J2BLUE |
We need to cut some spending. £129bn deficit spending last year. Probably heading to £150bn with increases to defence etc.
We cannot be adding half a trillion to the national debt every 3-4 years. We spent £130bn on debt interest last year. Nearly 10% of government spending. Adding more debt is clearly not the answer. | | | |
| Social care on 12:20 - Jul 27 with 1187 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Social care on 12:07 - Jul 27 by J2BLUE |
We need to cut some spending. £129bn deficit spending last year. Probably heading to £150bn with increases to defence etc.
We cannot be adding half a trillion to the national debt every 3-4 years. We spent £130bn on debt interest last year. Nearly 10% of government spending. Adding more debt is clearly not the answer. |
Pensions is the answer. Everyone points to Scandinavian social democracy as their favoured model, yet they don’t want pension reform (I.e move them to the private sector). Denmark debt to gdp ratio is about 1/3 of the UK, and the taxes as a percentage of gdp isn’t that much higher.
The ratio of tax payers to pensioners has halved in the last 60 years, anything else is tinkering around the edges. | | | |
| Social care on 12:30 - Jul 27 with 1153 views | Mullet |
| Social care on 11:58 - Jul 27 by bluestandard |
It really amazes me how much vitriol there seems to be for landlords these days. Bearing in mind that it would seem that its the small landlord which is attracting the greatest ire. Why? |
Probably the housing crisis and cost of living. |  |
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| Social care on 12:35 - Jul 27 with 1119 views | bluestandard |
| Social care on 12:30 - Jul 27 by Mullet |
Probably the housing crisis and cost of living. |
And how are small landlords responsible for this? | | | |
| Social care on 12:39 - Jul 27 with 1100 views | lazyblue |
Nearly give half my income away as it is! | | | |
| Social care on 12:39 - Jul 27 with 1099 views | Mullet |
| Social care on 12:35 - Jul 27 by bluestandard |
And how are small landlords responsible for this? |
As in the cause? Possibly it’s accepted they’re not. As people exacerbating it, I think it’s fairly common to see people resent landlords for hoarding stock and resources, being driven by profit when people are struggling because rents and mortgages only go up.
I’m more intrigued why you think they’d get or deserve sympathy from people who are struggling. | |
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| Social care on 12:43 - Jul 27 with 1080 views | bluestandard |
| Social care on 12:39 - Jul 27 by Mullet |
As in the cause? Possibly it’s accepted they’re not. As people exacerbating it, I think it’s fairly common to see people resent landlords for hoarding stock and resources, being driven by profit when people are struggling because rents and mortgages only go up.
I’m more intrigued why you think they’d get or deserve sympathy from people who are struggling. |
I don't think landlords, or any one sector of the economy for that matter, deserve sympathy over and above everyone else. What I see , demonstrated perfectly by the OP of the comment I replied to, is what I believe is a fundamental misunderstanding of what is driving the hosing crisis / cost of living to which you refer. Happy to discuss, but conscious that this is a social care thread! | | | |
| Social care on 12:52 - Jul 27 with 1039 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Social care on 11:15 - Jul 27 by J2BLUE |
Agree.
Yet we still spend far more than we take in taxes. With NHS, military and social care bills going up it seems pretty obvious we need to cut spending in some areas. As soon as it's mentioned people start shouting about austerity. No one would manage their household finances like that but for the country it seems to be absolutely fine. |
A country is nothing like a household, and besides many households carry more debt as a proportion of income than the government. The average household with a mortgage (about a third of households) is about £200k in debt. We all borrow against the future, not just governments. | |
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| Social care on 13:07 - Jul 27 with 952 views | J2BLUE |
| Social care on 12:52 - Jul 27 by Swansea_Blue |
A country is nothing like a household, and besides many households carry more debt as a proportion of income than the government. The average household with a mortgage (about a third of households) is about £200k in debt. We all borrow against the future, not just governments. |
Both need to balance the books or suffer later, as we are now seeing with nearly 10% of our income going towards servicing the debt interest.
Your example isn't the best either because people need to live somewhere. They could be debt free and rent but they still need to find the rent payment each month. At least with a mortgage you are likely gaining some equity each month and hopefully one day will own that property outright.
The government needs to cut spending. Even if we raise taxes the deficit will remain very large. We are spending £130bn a year on debt interest. Surely you are not arguing against cutting spending if possible? I am not suggesting we go full Elon and start cutting random things with no plan. We really do need to assess our priorities though and probably make some hard choices. We cannot keep adding to the debt and increasing the cost of servicing it. The US spends 19% of federal income on servicing debt.
We need to act now. | | | |
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