| Salary negotiations - advice? 08:32 - Aug 11 with 3407 views | Zx1988 |
I recently found out at work that I'm currently on significantly less than a junior colleague (I've made my way through the ranks over the last decade, so have never received a 'competitive' salary review that comes with switching employers), and I've reached out to management to suggest my package might need review, as it's worse in all areas than other similar competitors within the market.
They've, predictably, come back with the usual 'how much were you looking for, then?' response, and I'm keen not to be the first to anchor my position.
I've gone back with a polite response along the lines of 'you regularly say you benchmark against the wider market, so I'd be interested to understand where you feel that my package should now sit', but are there any broader recommendations on strategy, or how to move on if they remain insistent that I'm going to be the first one to name a figure?
I'm pretty sure I suffer from an element of Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria as part of a wider ADHD diagnosis, so I'd much rather we could dispense with all the theatre of negotiation, and just have a simple and honest 'this is our best offer' proposal put on the table. |  |
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| Salary negotiations - advice? on 08:39 - Aug 11 with 2880 views | TIB |
I’d not mention that you’ve heard another colleagues salary, that can open up a can of worms, but, if you’re certain this junior colleagues salary is true, then it’s fair to ask for a review.
If it was me, I’d be asking for above their salary factoring in your experience and loyalty to the company and then backing it factually with similar roles salaries.
Always an awkward subject but one that’s hard to avoid if you can show you are being underpaid compared to competitors. |  |
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| Salary negotiations - advice? on 08:40 - Aug 11 with 2873 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
I’d say the most important thing is to be confident that if the negotiation goes badly, you have an alternative. It sounds like in your sector you are paid at the low end, so presumably one of your competitors would, hypothetically at least, be willing to pay you more. So if you have a degree of confidence that, if push comes to shove, you could jump ship, then put forward a proposal at the high end of what is the going rate. Good luck. |  |
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| Salary negotiations - advice? on 08:43 - Aug 11 with 2833 views | Perublue |
Millennial cohort … aren’t you ?
Just a wild stab in the dark. |  |
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| Salary negotiations - advice? on 08:44 - Aug 11 with 2816 views | itfckenty |
If I was you, I would do the following:
1. research your role and find out what the market salary would be in your area.
2. write a journal of everything you do per year, and if this equates to generate revenue, note what the achievements have been over the past X years - any revenue generated on your behalf that exceeds expectations, can be used to garner the pay increase.
that's what I have done previously in my role, but I have had to have relevant info as to why I should have an increase, rather than X Colleague earns XYZ.
the key is market salary and your worth to the business, but writing all this info down really does help I found.
companies generally do not want to pay more, plus sometimes they test your aptitude by not requesting too much - if you could reasonable, but fair - your more likely to get what you deserve.
hope that helps. |  | | |
| Salary negotiations - advice? on 08:52 - Aug 11 with 2710 views | JimmyJazz |
Look for another job. That should give you a reasonable basis of what the salaries are for similar positions (that you can then use for a review or to back up your asking salary). If you find other jobs are similarly waged, then despite what the junior colleague is paid, you know your current wage is in the right ballpark |  |
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| Salary negotiations - advice? on 08:53 - Aug 11 with 2709 views | bobbys_vision |
n/t [Post edited 11 Aug 17:42]
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| Salary negotiations - advice? on 09:25 - Aug 11 with 2438 views | Rozz |
| Salary negotiations - advice? on 08:44 - Aug 11 by itfckenty |
If I was you, I would do the following:
1. research your role and find out what the market salary would be in your area.
2. write a journal of everything you do per year, and if this equates to generate revenue, note what the achievements have been over the past X years - any revenue generated on your behalf that exceeds expectations, can be used to garner the pay increase.
that's what I have done previously in my role, but I have had to have relevant info as to why I should have an increase, rather than X Colleague earns XYZ.
the key is market salary and your worth to the business, but writing all this info down really does help I found.
companies generally do not want to pay more, plus sometimes they test your aptitude by not requesting too much - if you could reasonable, but fair - your more likely to get what you deserve.
hope that helps. |
I've had a similar situation in the past where I was in a role from intern level and worked up. Another production manager (same role as me) was recruited to share responsibilities in place of an outgoing head of department. I was relatively junior, but working my arse off and (IMHO) very good at what I was doing.
Although the new hire was more experienced, I used the companies job advert for the role to make the case that I was performing all of their responsibilities with proficiency, and pressed them to find areas on the JD where I was not performing equally. Their experience argument soon fell down, although it was awkward and I had to hold my nerve through a lot of the usual gaslighting around "people my age want everything now".
It changed my life at the time from struggling / eating savings to survive in London to actually being able to build a personal life. It also revealed the kind of employer I was working for, what values I wanted from my next employers and what not to stand for.
By the way, AI can be incredibly useful for quickly sounding out ideas and strategies for these kinds of things:
"Bullet point a strategy for salary negotiations for a long term employee who has discovered a new hire in a more junior position is earning more money."
It can give you salary averages, structured arguments, advice on presentation etc. Always verify with your own research. |  | | |
| Salary negotiations - advice? on 09:38 - Aug 11 with 2341 views | OldFart71 |
Sometimes it will depend on whether you job is unique and you would be able to get a similar job elsewhere which would give you a better income.
Have you tried approaching another firm with the intention of leaving your current employment if they cannot match what another company would offer.
I know my daughter has on several occasions pointed out to her bosses that the job she does is/was lower paid than an equivalent elsewhere and has achieved an increase in her salary as a result.
Of course there's a need for a certain amount of caution as you don't want to end up with no job at all. | | | |
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| Salary negotiations - advice? on 09:41 - Aug 11 with 2317 views | Meadowlark |
10-20% more than the colleague. (They need to compensate for the fact you've been underpaid for so long)
I was in a similar position once. The company advertised a similar role and published the salary, which was quite a lot more than I was getting. I resigned. They quickly re-assessed my pay. I was prepared to leave had they not done so.
Perhaps a bit extreme, but companies will take you for granted if you just get on with your work and don't make a fuss. |  | | |
| Salary negotiations - advice? on 09:43 - Aug 11 with 2307 views | crouchendyachtclub |
| Salary negotiations - advice? on 08:44 - Aug 11 by itfckenty |
If I was you, I would do the following:
1. research your role and find out what the market salary would be in your area.
2. write a journal of everything you do per year, and if this equates to generate revenue, note what the achievements have been over the past X years - any revenue generated on your behalf that exceeds expectations, can be used to garner the pay increase.
that's what I have done previously in my role, but I have had to have relevant info as to why I should have an increase, rather than X Colleague earns XYZ.
the key is market salary and your worth to the business, but writing all this info down really does help I found.
companies generally do not want to pay more, plus sometimes they test your aptitude by not requesting too much - if you could reasonable, but fair - your more likely to get what you deserve.
hope that helps. |
This is good advice.
I sit the other side of the table so any way that you can demonstrate value, whether it’s from incremental revenue, cost savings or time savings will be useful to keep that front of mind because it gets lost during the year.
Ultimately they will be looking to pay you the minimum that they can to keep you so you will struggle to reach parity if they don’t think you have a credible alternative. Even then that can sometimes fall down if the company decides they will take the hit to replace you in a different period.
The flip side to this is if you’re genuinely a top performer. They are the ones that you see getting the above market raises and early promotions. If you have a strong hand then it becomes much easier to get what you want. | | | |
| Salary negotiations - advice? on 09:47 - Aug 11 with 2271 views | JammyDodgerrr |
The easiest way is to look at the jobs available, perhaps even talk to recruiters and get a feel for what is out there. They might even be able to sort you out a few conversations which you can leverage to your advantage, with no intention of taking the job. |  |
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| Salary negotiations - advice? on 09:53 - Aug 11 with 2219 views | sohamblue74 |
Good luck for the negotiations.
Also remember that you can research average salary and salary range data (to a reasonable degree of accuracy) on glassdoor, by location, job title, etc. | | | |
| Salary negotiations - advice? on 09:59 - Aug 11 with 2172 views | SonOfSpock |
Much like other commentors above, simply provide the business with facts:
Figures from websites such as GlassDoor, Indeed etc for your industry.
Examples of job adverts for your role/experience ideally with salary/benefits listed (nice passive aggressive hint that you've looked).
Then summarise with:
"Based on the attached evidence I therefore think that £XX.000 is a fair remuneration based on the market and my experience and the value I add to ACME Inc"
Based on the figures you've seen, decide on a figure that is good for you and backed by the research you've done. Be prepared to find another job if they don't play ball. Also, it costs a business money to recruit and train up new staff so paying somebody more who has the experience in place will work out cheaper for them.
Remember, there is no such thing as company loyalty. Business will look to pay people the bare minimum they can get away with and as your firm has brought in a junior on more money than you I think this proves it. |  | | |
| Salary negotiations - advice? on 10:01 - Aug 11 with 2153 views | eireblue |
If you have time read Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss. |  | | |
| Salary negotiations - advice? on 10:02 - Aug 11 with 2151 views | Devereuxxx |
I agree with previous comments advising you to not mention a comparison to colleagues' salaries. Companies get really funny about that. Focus on arguments which outline why you require a pay rise, rather than a comparison to others. Factors to bring in can be time since last pay review, rate of inflation, any additional responsibilities given etc.
Bear in mind that if there if HR involvement - they are there to protect the company. In the same way they will be trying to advance the company's best interest, you can try and advance your own. Don't be afraid to have a number in mind, and suggest a larger number. They will undoubtably counter and hopefully you'll end up close to the number you're satisfied with. |  | | |
| Salary negotiations - advice? on 10:22 - Aug 11 with 2044 views | SaleAway |
There's some good advice in here... key points to be aware.
1. you might not like the idea of negotiation, but that is what it is, so you have to be prepared. know what your red lines are. If they don't budge, are you prepared to leave?
2. Consider how your package is structured. Which bits are most valuable to you. I spent a lot of time in one company asking them to stop giving me pay rises, but to give me more annual leave, for example.
3. Show your value. Don't just ask based on knowing what someone else is earning. Base it on your performance metrics.
4. Be prepared to have a few tough days where you might feel that you are butting up against a brick wall. Be patient, but also know your management structure. If you're not getting anywhere, sometimes its worth going around a bottleneck.
Here's my story. I joined my last employer as a software engineer, when the business was a start up. over the years, I progressed, took some management roles, and became one of the most senior members of the delivery team. During that time, I became aware, like you, that I was being paid less than other people doing my job. The company had been trying to normalise pay for a while, bringing in more structured bands etc, for different seniority levels. I found out that I wasn't even in my pay band... So, I waited for my annual review. Got brilliant feedback, no areas to improve. Basically, got told I was doing a great job. Pay review came around. Standard increase.... basically inflation... still below the pay band. So I documented my thoughts to the business.
1. I was being paid below the corporate salary band for my seniority.
2. My pay rise for that year was minimal, despite a great annual review.
3. A "good" pay rise, would have taken me into the pay band
This is where it got messy. My (relatively new) manager told me that I was at the top of the band so I couldn't expect a big increase. I disputed this, at which point he claimed I was in the seniority level below. So I clarified this for him, and expected an appropriate adjustment. About a week later, they came back and clarified that my pay award was based on my correct seniority. So I circled back to why despite an excellent review, I had only a minimal raise. Got told I needed to do more. Asked what, as I had hit all my targets, and not been given other things that I needed to do. Tumbleweed.
At this point, I was gone. I was sending my CV out, and starting to talk to recruitment agencies, as I decided that if they didn't value me, then I'd find somewhere that did. I was genuinely upset though, I'd spent 15 years there, being generally well looked after, but something felt really off about the messages I was getting. I didn't want to leave. I liked my work, I liked my colleagues, I just didn't feel I was being treated fairly.
So I went with one last attempt. I emailed the head of HR, laid out my story, and told him how I didn't feel that I had been treated fairly, and that I was confused by the process, where I was being given mixed messages, and no real answers. I told him that I was looking outside the business for new roles, because I felt the company clearly didn't value what I was doing. About 4 hours later, I was called into a meeting, where they offered me a much bigger pay rise than I had been expecting at any point, and way more than i would ever had asked for. It turned out, my manager was constrained by the business rules that had been put in place about the total value of increases he was allowed to give, and had basically run out of money, and instead of going to his boss to ask for more, had basically just stonewalled me. Once it got out to the wider business that I was thinking of leaving, more money was found.
So, as I say, know your value, but be prepared to step away if they won't meet your red lines. | |
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| Salary negotiations - advice? on 10:48 - Aug 11 with 1917 views | MJallday |
1) do your research. glassdoor/indeed/internet etc
2) always go above. if you say £25k because your colleague is on 25k then they'll give you 25k. you say 40k. they might say, ok 30k.
3) the fact theyre willing to have that conversation is a good thing.
4) be prepared to demonstrate your worth. ive done x,y,z etc...
5) dont make threats. that will make them shrink back into their own bodies. |  |
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| Salary negotiations - advice? on 12:49 - Aug 11 with 1608 views | Zx1988 |
Thanks all - some really valuable points there.
To give a little context (in the time-honoured TWTD style) and to flesh things out a bit...
I work for a well-known fast food franchise, as a one-star member of staff.
My salary is currently £100 per day with a statutory minimum pension, and I have a target to flip 240 burgers a day. I'm a senior burger flipper with management and training responsibilities. I'm also a specialist in pickle-placement, which is a highly specialised skill that very few fast food staff possess, and almost none in my geographic area.
I've spoken to a couple of competing chains, both of which will offer me £134 a day - with one also offering 17% pension - and a more junior role - essentially the 'just do your job and go home' version of what I have.
Two colleagues I know about are on £124 and £105 a day, with targets of 190 and 180 burgers respectively. They're the same age and star-level as me, with the same qualifications, but have the more junior 'just do your job and go home' roles, with no specialist knowledge.
The restaurant is currently in the process of replacing the £105/day colleague, as they got a better offer elsewhere, and the advert is offering £124/day.
So there's definitely a decent element of underpayment there, both against internal knowledge (which I won't use), as well as against the company's own advertised figures, and what's on offer elsewhere. | |
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| Salary negotiations - advice? on 13:02 - Aug 11 with 1523 views | lurcher |
Employers rarely do something until an employee resigns. Even mentioning that you know what someone else is on is difficult, typically employees are contractually obliged not to talk about their renumeration. So raising the concern would get the other employee into trouble. Your employer could well benchmark against the market, but that doesn't mean they every employee is getting the market rate, there will be a distribution. I have worked for big financial services organisations and I have seen huge differences between salaries and packages at the same grade,100 -150 thousand in some cases. It is all about what you can negotiate. I would look for another role and leave, the reality is nobody is actually looking out for you, only you. |  | | |
| Salary negotiations - advice? on 13:18 - Aug 11 with 1435 views | Kropotkin123 |
I'd like fair market value. What does your salary data suggest for my years of experience and your performance evaluation? |  |
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| Salary negotiations - advice? on 13:58 - Aug 11 with 1264 views | eireblue |
| Salary negotiations - advice? on 12:49 - Aug 11 by Zx1988 |
Thanks all - some really valuable points there.
To give a little context (in the time-honoured TWTD style) and to flesh things out a bit...
I work for a well-known fast food franchise, as a one-star member of staff.
My salary is currently £100 per day with a statutory minimum pension, and I have a target to flip 240 burgers a day. I'm a senior burger flipper with management and training responsibilities. I'm also a specialist in pickle-placement, which is a highly specialised skill that very few fast food staff possess, and almost none in my geographic area.
I've spoken to a couple of competing chains, both of which will offer me £134 a day - with one also offering 17% pension - and a more junior role - essentially the 'just do your job and go home' version of what I have.
Two colleagues I know about are on £124 and £105 a day, with targets of 190 and 180 burgers respectively. They're the same age and star-level as me, with the same qualifications, but have the more junior 'just do your job and go home' roles, with no specialist knowledge.
The restaurant is currently in the process of replacing the £105/day colleague, as they got a better offer elsewhere, and the advert is offering £124/day.
So there's definitely a decent element of underpayment there, both against internal knowledge (which I won't use), as well as against the company's own advertised figures, and what's on offer elsewhere. |
I appreciate you need to be fair to the team, and there maybe constraints that you personally have to work within.
From my research, I think if you needed to go to market and fill this role, and attract someone with my experience, you would be offering a salary in the range, £134 to £147.
Is there anyone you can approach in the business to see how we could close that gap between my salary and that range. | | | |
| Salary negotiations - advice? on 14:16 - Aug 11 with 1197 views | stiff_talking |
| Salary negotiations - advice? on 13:58 - Aug 11 by eireblue |
I appreciate you need to be fair to the team, and there maybe constraints that you personally have to work within.
From my research, I think if you needed to go to market and fill this role, and attract someone with my experience, you would be offering a salary in the range, £134 to £147.
Is there anyone you can approach in the business to see how we could close that gap between my salary and that range. |
Is it a good time to ask for an increase ? | | | |
| Salary negotiations - advice? on 14:16 - Aug 11 with 1198 views | chicoazul |
I’d suggest that if you are on much less than a junior colleague doing the same job you have a claim under the Equality Act 2010. Look into that. |  |
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| Salary negotiations - advice? on 15:39 - Aug 11 with 1022 views | Guthrum |
| Salary negotiations - advice? on 12:49 - Aug 11 by Zx1988 |
Thanks all - some really valuable points there.
To give a little context (in the time-honoured TWTD style) and to flesh things out a bit...
I work for a well-known fast food franchise, as a one-star member of staff.
My salary is currently £100 per day with a statutory minimum pension, and I have a target to flip 240 burgers a day. I'm a senior burger flipper with management and training responsibilities. I'm also a specialist in pickle-placement, which is a highly specialised skill that very few fast food staff possess, and almost none in my geographic area.
I've spoken to a couple of competing chains, both of which will offer me £134 a day - with one also offering 17% pension - and a more junior role - essentially the 'just do your job and go home' version of what I have.
Two colleagues I know about are on £124 and £105 a day, with targets of 190 and 180 burgers respectively. They're the same age and star-level as me, with the same qualifications, but have the more junior 'just do your job and go home' roles, with no specialist knowledge.
The restaurant is currently in the process of replacing the £105/day colleague, as they got a better offer elsewhere, and the advert is offering £124/day.
So there's definitely a decent element of underpayment there, both against internal knowledge (which I won't use), as well as against the company's own advertised figures, and what's on offer elsewhere. |
Have you thought of applying for the better-paid position, just to make the point?
(This may do more harm than good, so don't take my advice on this)
However, it does give you a legitimate route to knowing what the job is considered worth by the company, without dropping your colleague in it. |  |
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| Salary negotiations - advice? on 15:59 - Aug 11 with 946 views | Zx1988 |
| Salary negotiations - advice? on 15:39 - Aug 11 by Guthrum |
Have you thought of applying for the better-paid position, just to make the point?
(This may do more harm than good, so don't take my advice on this)
However, it does give you a legitimate route to knowing what the job is considered worth by the company, without dropping your colleague in it. |
Interestingly I got ChatGPT to do a trawl based on the advert I know about and its wording - it revealed an advert for a Senior Specialist Burger Flipper (essentially my role without management/training), with a salary of £134 per day.
So I've got that tucked in the back pocket to support my case when they, inevitably, come back with the usual 'we can't afford to pay you more than £x' argument. | |
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