| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: 19:39 - Sep 14 with 4539 views | Zx1988 |
https://www.instagram.com/p/Dd
Sorry I can't find a link that'll embed here, but the Guardian also cover it here:
https://www.theguardian.com/mu
The gist of it is thus:
Macklemore was touring with Ed Sheeran, and spoke out at the Metlife stadium in support of Palestine. Since then, Ed has been forced (or chosen, depending on your stance) to remove him from the tour, after a number of US stadium owners refused to allow the tour to visit if Macklemore was on the bill.
Nothing hateful, nothing anti-semitic, just the mere act of saying 'Free Palestine' on a stage in front of 90,000 people. |  |
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| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 09:44 - Sep 15 with 958 views | WeWereZombies |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 09:19 - Sep 15 by balcombeblue |
No, they didn't represent an existential threat. But Hamas and their terrorist alliances across the region did and probably still do. It's a shame that Hamas don't value the lives of people in Gaza as much as we do. This is evident in many past statements form Hamas about necessary sacrifice.
20 years ago, Hamas had the chance to join the political mainstream. Instead they chose to enrich themselves, arm themselves, oppress their people, divert aid, build terrorist infrastructure and resume rocket attacks on Israel which culminated in the attacks on the 7th.
I personally think framing these deaths as 'mass murder' is incorrect. Noting again that it is highly contested. I also avoid the term 'genocide' because of its obvious historical context.
Following the 7th, what would you have chosen as the correct path for Israel to take? This is the question I continually try to find an answer to. |
Well after almost three years of inconsiderate onslaught and deeply oppressive to a civilian population IDF tactics Israel has still failed to eliminate HAMAS (and the 'Iron Dome' that was supposed to exist before the seventh of October, 2023 failed to contain HAMAS). So the only solution left is the two state solution, as argued for by former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert amongst others.
It will be difficult to establish (how do you join the West Bank to Gaza ? How do you re-settle Israeli settlers ?) and very difficult to maintain (and to give Palestinians a free vote within their borders) but so many other parts of the World share similar problems. We have one in the United Kingdom. The only way forward is to ceasse prevaricating and get on with the necessary political solution if we want the fighting and terrorism to be reduced. |  |
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| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 09:47 - Sep 15 with 950 views | StokieBlue |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 09:19 - Sep 15 by balcombeblue |
No, they didn't represent an existential threat. But Hamas and their terrorist alliances across the region did and probably still do. It's a shame that Hamas don't value the lives of people in Gaza as much as we do. This is evident in many past statements form Hamas about necessary sacrifice.
20 years ago, Hamas had the chance to join the political mainstream. Instead they chose to enrich themselves, arm themselves, oppress their people, divert aid, build terrorist infrastructure and resume rocket attacks on Israel which culminated in the attacks on the 7th.
I personally think framing these deaths as 'mass murder' is incorrect. Noting again that it is highly contested. I also avoid the term 'genocide' because of its obvious historical context.
Following the 7th, what would you have chosen as the correct path for Israel to take? This is the question I continually try to find an answer to. |
The killing of 17000+ children and another 40000-50000 civilians isn't mass murder?
I'm out, enjoy the rest of your day.
SB |  |
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| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 09:49 - Sep 15 with 933 views | lowhouseblue |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 09:19 - Sep 15 by balcombeblue |
No, they didn't represent an existential threat. But Hamas and their terrorist alliances across the region did and probably still do. It's a shame that Hamas don't value the lives of people in Gaza as much as we do. This is evident in many past statements form Hamas about necessary sacrifice.
20 years ago, Hamas had the chance to join the political mainstream. Instead they chose to enrich themselves, arm themselves, oppress their people, divert aid, build terrorist infrastructure and resume rocket attacks on Israel which culminated in the attacks on the 7th.
I personally think framing these deaths as 'mass murder' is incorrect. Noting again that it is highly contested. I also avoid the term 'genocide' because of its obvious historical context.
Following the 7th, what would you have chosen as the correct path for Israel to take? This is the question I continually try to find an answer to. |
hamas and their iranian backers represented an existential threat. they proved that on oct 7th.
with an enemy which is intentionally imbedded around and under a civilian population casualty rates are unavoidably high. that is a fundamental fact in the conflict and it is an asymmetry that hamas has consciously created as a tactic and has ruthlessly sought to exploit. that the casualty rate has been high, in the context of a dense urban population which hamas is in reality using as a shield, doesn't imply that a high casualty rate was desired. it however does raise the original questions again as to whether such israeli action was proportionate and whether there were realistically achievable war aims. but valid criticism of israel's approach can't alter the fundamental responsibility of hamas and iran. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 09:55 - Sep 15 with 911 views | Blueschev |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 09:19 - Sep 15 by balcombeblue |
No, they didn't represent an existential threat. But Hamas and their terrorist alliances across the region did and probably still do. It's a shame that Hamas don't value the lives of people in Gaza as much as we do. This is evident in many past statements form Hamas about necessary sacrifice.
20 years ago, Hamas had the chance to join the political mainstream. Instead they chose to enrich themselves, arm themselves, oppress their people, divert aid, build terrorist infrastructure and resume rocket attacks on Israel which culminated in the attacks on the 7th.
I personally think framing these deaths as 'mass murder' is incorrect. Noting again that it is highly contested. I also avoid the term 'genocide' because of its obvious historical context.
Following the 7th, what would you have chosen as the correct path for Israel to take? This is the question I continually try to find an answer to. |
You're second paragraph is simply untrue. Hamas were never given the chance to join the "political mainstream", Gaza was essentially sealed off from the world as soon as they won the election. An election they only won because the Palestinians were desperate and voiceless.
Were you a Palestinian, what would you have chosen as the correct path after 1948? |  | | |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 10:07 - Sep 15 with 875 views | JohnTy |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 09:55 - Sep 15 by Blueschev |
You're second paragraph is simply untrue. Hamas were never given the chance to join the "political mainstream", Gaza was essentially sealed off from the world as soon as they won the election. An election they only won because the Palestinians were desperate and voiceless.
Were you a Palestinian, what would you have chosen as the correct path after 1948? |
I am getting lazy - so some AI slop
"For decades, Israeli policy—particularly under Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu—indirectly supported and propped up Hamas as part of a deliberate "divide and rule" strategy to fracture the Palestinian national movement and prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state." |  | | |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 10:17 - Sep 15 with 845 views | NthQldITFC |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 09:49 - Sep 15 by lowhouseblue |
hamas and their iranian backers represented an existential threat. they proved that on oct 7th.
with an enemy which is intentionally imbedded around and under a civilian population casualty rates are unavoidably high. that is a fundamental fact in the conflict and it is an asymmetry that hamas has consciously created as a tactic and has ruthlessly sought to exploit. that the casualty rate has been high, in the context of a dense urban population which hamas is in reality using as a shield, doesn't imply that a high casualty rate was desired. it however does raise the original questions again as to whether such israeli action was proportionate and whether there were realistically achievable war aims. but valid criticism of israel's approach can't alter the fundamental responsibility of hamas and iran. |
Horrific though it was, October 7th did not prove representation of an existential threat.
As for your second para, where do you expect any resistance or freedom fighters or terrorists if you prefer to call them that, to operate from, when a whole people has been progressively crammed into a smaller and smaller area by land grabs, systematic infrastructure demolition and - what's it called again? oh yes - pretty much self-admitted ethnic cleansing. |  |
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| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 10:27 - Sep 15 with 824 views | balcombeblue |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 09:55 - Sep 15 by Blueschev |
You're second paragraph is simply untrue. Hamas were never given the chance to join the "political mainstream", Gaza was essentially sealed off from the world as soon as they won the election. An election they only won because the Palestinians were desperate and voiceless.
Were you a Palestinian, what would you have chosen as the correct path after 1948? |
The idea that a blockade stopped Hamas from joining the mainstream is certainly a nuanced one and certainly one that is lost on me.
For some additional context, Egypt also sealed the border, concerned about terrorist infiltration into Northern Sinai.
But more than that, it was in 2007 that Israel revoked the ability of Palestinians to cross into Israel to work following violent control from Hamas. Even then, Israel reopened the border and up to 20,000 Gazans had the right to work in Israel (and exercised that right). Even the Guardian reported this before the 7th.
https://www.theguardian.com/wo
Then the 7th happened and all of a sudden it's a genocide?
To your last question, I would need to read far more about the 1948, 2000 and 2008 offerings of a potential two state solution. I am not sure a two-state solution has ever been accepted by either side. Notwithstanding that, Hamas and many before them have done the Palestinians a continued injustice. |  | | |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 10:27 - Sep 15 with 822 views | lowhouseblue |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 10:17 - Sep 15 by NthQldITFC |
Horrific though it was, October 7th did not prove representation of an existential threat.
As for your second para, where do you expect any resistance or freedom fighters or terrorists if you prefer to call them that, to operate from, when a whole people has been progressively crammed into a smaller and smaller area by land grabs, systematic infrastructure demolition and - what's it called again? oh yes - pretty much self-admitted ethnic cleansing. |
both hamas and iran seek the destruction of israel. oct 7th embodied that.
land grabs etc don't apply gaza following the 2005 israeli withdrawal.
hamas as an occupying force funded and armed by iran has dug itself in under a civilian population. i don't know the best response to that. i think israel's response has been disproportionate because it has never had realistically achievable war aims. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 10:34 - Sep 15 with 797 views | balcombeblue |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 09:47 - Sep 15 by StokieBlue |
The killing of 17000+ children and another 40000-50000 civilians isn't mass murder?
I'm out, enjoy the rest of your day.
SB |
That term is disputed, unless we apply the term 'mass murder' to all conflict and war zones. To me again, it invokes a reference back to the holocaust in the same way using the term genocide does.
Using a passive-aggressive sign-off to end the conversation is a shame, as it avoids engaging with the actual legal and historical distinctions being made | | | |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 10:59 - Sep 15 with 745 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 10:17 - Sep 15 by NthQldITFC |
Horrific though it was, October 7th did not prove representation of an existential threat.
As for your second para, where do you expect any resistance or freedom fighters or terrorists if you prefer to call them that, to operate from, when a whole people has been progressively crammed into a smaller and smaller area by land grabs, systematic infrastructure demolition and - what's it called again? oh yes - pretty much self-admitted ethnic cleansing. |
Hamas came to power in Gaza and then seized it, murdering political rivals (and have continued to do so post occupation). Even the Palestinians in West Bank sought alternative leadership. Have you seen how fortified the border is with Egypt- they are all too aware of the threat of Hamas and part of the reason Hamas are ‘contained’ to Gaza.
It’s a fair view to consider Oct 7th as being not an existential threat to Israel. Therefore what do you think were Hamas’ motivations? And what do you think Hamas expected the Israeli response to be? Why would freedom fighters invite the destruction of their own state, or was it simply about maintaining their own power at a horrific cost to Palestinian civilians. | | | |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 11:03 - Sep 15 with 733 views | bartyg |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 10:59 - Sep 15 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Hamas came to power in Gaza and then seized it, murdering political rivals (and have continued to do so post occupation). Even the Palestinians in West Bank sought alternative leadership. Have you seen how fortified the border is with Egypt- they are all too aware of the threat of Hamas and part of the reason Hamas are ‘contained’ to Gaza.
It’s a fair view to consider Oct 7th as being not an existential threat to Israel. Therefore what do you think were Hamas’ motivations? And what do you think Hamas expected the Israeli response to be? Why would freedom fighters invite the destruction of their own state, or was it simply about maintaining their own power at a horrific cost to Palestinian civilians. |
Hamas forced Israel's hand- they had no option but to kill tens of thousands of civilians. |  |
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| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 11:13 - Sep 15 with 716 views | Blueschev |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 10:59 - Sep 15 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
Hamas came to power in Gaza and then seized it, murdering political rivals (and have continued to do so post occupation). Even the Palestinians in West Bank sought alternative leadership. Have you seen how fortified the border is with Egypt- they are all too aware of the threat of Hamas and part of the reason Hamas are ‘contained’ to Gaza.
It’s a fair view to consider Oct 7th as being not an existential threat to Israel. Therefore what do you think were Hamas’ motivations? And what do you think Hamas expected the Israeli response to be? Why would freedom fighters invite the destruction of their own state, or was it simply about maintaining their own power at a horrific cost to Palestinian civilians. |
I think Hamas' desired outcome from October 7th was for Israel to react disproportionately, turning the tide of world opinion against it, which is exactly what has happened. They showed no regard for human suffering on their own people as they saw said suffering as part of the "cause". I also expect that the events on October 7th went "better" than they ever expected. | | | |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 11:23 - Sep 15 with 693 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 11:03 - Sep 15 by bartyg |
Hamas forced Israel's hand- they had no option but to kill tens of thousands of civilians. |
Israel have a long history of disproportionate responses do they not? Plenty on here predicted the outcome, so it’s unfathomable that Hamas didn’t. Fairly safe to assume they considered ordinary Palestinians acceptable collateral damage, in the same way as the IDF. | | | |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 20:03 - Sep 15 with 466 views | reusersfreekicks |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 07:51 - Sep 15 by HairBearBunch |
Like that, everyone that doesn't join pro-palestinian protest etc is colluding with the Israelies etc ?
Perhaps for many people who have less interest in world affairs, it's simply not something that is in their everyday thoughts. That in no way equates to collusion or a 'total lack of spine'. |
Let's hope you're never a victim of oppression and genocide and that the rest of the world doesn't have your don't give a sh1t attitude |  | | |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 22:28 - Sep 15 with 427 views | Zx1988 |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 08:19 - Sep 15 by Zx1988 |
Morning, Glassers.
Now you're up and engaging with the thread again, do you want to discuss the points I've raised which rather suggest that this has nothing to do with anti-semitism, and everything to do with trying to silence a pro-Palestine voice? |
Hello? Has anyone seen Glassers?
He seems to have disappeared after being challenged, which is most unlike him. | |
| Not a prophet, or a stone-age man; just a mortal with potential of a superman. | | Poll: | Worst Ginger? |
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| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 22:53 - Sep 15 with 400 views | GlasgowBlue |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 22:28 - Sep 15 by Zx1988 |
Hello? Has anyone seen Glassers?
He seems to have disappeared after being challenged, which is most unlike him. |
Sorry but I don’t feel that I can have a sensible conversation with the poster who referred to the killer of those three beautiful girls murdered in Southport as a “victim”. So follow somebody else around a message board mate. |  |
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| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 23:42 - Sep 15 with 349 views | reusersfreekicks |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 11:03 - Sep 15 by bartyg |
Hamas forced Israel's hand- they had no option but to kill tens of thousands of civilians. |
Basically what they are saying on here isn't it?
Like if the UK govt had slaughtered thousands of Irish people due to the actions of the ira | | | |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 00:07 - Sep 16 with 299 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 22:53 - Sep 15 by GlasgowBlue |
Sorry but I don’t feel that I can have a sensible conversation with the poster who referred to the killer of those three beautiful girls murdered in Southport as a “victim”. So follow somebody else around a message board mate. |
Taking passive aggressive to new levels tonight! |  |
| "They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches." | | Poll: | What you watching. |
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| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 00:50 - Sep 16 with 276 views | reusersfreekicks |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 07:51 - Sep 15 by GlasgowBlue |
Yiuve been very vocal on the Palestinian genocide. Your conscience is clear. However….
You’ve never spoken out against antisemitism. So you are colluding with it.
You’ve never spoken out against the Sudan genocide. So you are colluding with it.
You’ve never spoken out against the Myanmar genocide. So you are colluding with it.
You’ve never spoken out against the ethnic violence in DRC. So you are colluding with it.
You’ve never spoken out against the Chinese persecution, mass detention, and birth-prevention policies directed at Uyghurs. So you are colluding with it.
That’s how it works. Yes? |
Oh well done.
I have spoken out against anti semitism including on threads you have made or contributed to. But you do you and make stuff up.
You know what I meant in principle but have twisted it to your own purposes as you always do. Sheeran was faced with the Palestine issue and took the path of zero resistance and has said nothing. I wouldn't do the same about Palestine or any of the other heartbreaking injustices you refer to.
It's clear you want less about Palestine on the board but don't seem to have the ability to police the board in the way you think you should have | | | |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 01:08 - Sep 16 with 261 views | pointofblue |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 00:50 - Sep 16 by reusersfreekicks |
Oh well done.
I have spoken out against anti semitism including on threads you have made or contributed to. But you do you and make stuff up.
You know what I meant in principle but have twisted it to your own purposes as you always do. Sheeran was faced with the Palestine issue and took the path of zero resistance and has said nothing. I wouldn't do the same about Palestine or any of the other heartbreaking injustices you refer to.
It's clear you want less about Palestine on the board but don't seem to have the ability to police the board in the way you think you should have |
Though why should celebrities have to take a side in the Palestine situation if they don't want to? Or, if they are forced to do so, does that mean they should with every single thing that is happening in and to the world? Russia and Ukraine? China's actions towards Tibet? Global warming? AI? The British Parliament's take on euthanasia? Perhaps everyone in the public sphere should be forced to sit down and outline their take on every subject before they can be interviewed or promote themselves?
The world is so polarised and divided nowadays I'm not surprised people want to stay quiet about personal opinions. Credit to those who speak publicly. Perhaps some of those have less to lose. I can understand why others don't. Whatever they do or say will be wrong. | |
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| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 02:12 - Sep 16 with 222 views | Joey_Joe_Joe_Junior |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 22:53 - Sep 15 by GlasgowBlue |
Sorry but I don’t feel that I can have a sensible conversation with the poster who referred to the killer of those three beautiful girls murdered in Southport as a “victim”. So follow somebody else around a message board mate. |
Wow!
I didn’t see that but literally nothing surprises me on this board. |  |
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| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 06:01 - Sep 16 with 170 views | GlasgowBlue |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 00:50 - Sep 16 by reusersfreekicks |
Oh well done.
I have spoken out against anti semitism including on threads you have made or contributed to. But you do you and make stuff up.
You know what I meant in principle but have twisted it to your own purposes as you always do. Sheeran was faced with the Palestine issue and took the path of zero resistance and has said nothing. I wouldn't do the same about Palestine or any of the other heartbreaking injustices you refer to.
It's clear you want less about Palestine on the board but don't seem to have the ability to police the board in the way you think you should have |
As somebody who who has stated on numerous times that Netanyahu is a war criminal who should be on trial in The Hague, the likes of Smotrich and Ben-Gvir are terrorists, that the settlements should not only cease but should be dismantled and believe wholeheartedly in a two state solution, why would I want “less about Palestine on the board”. You seem to be conflating a person of Jewish heritage with Jewish family members who actively speaks out against antisemitism with being a supporter of the Israeli government. I find that abhorrent and insulting.
*And it’s antisemitism, not anti semitism. Please use the preferred spelling.
https://holocaustremembrance.c
**A Google search of TWTD.co.uk/reusersfreekicks/antisemitism throws us just three results.
https://www.google.com/search?
Having checked all three threads there isn’t a single condemnation of antisemitism from you. I’m sure you can link me to your history of speaking out against antisemitism. In that case I would be happy to apologise and admit my mistake. | |
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| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 06:19 - Sep 16 with 159 views | Benters |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 22:53 - Sep 15 by GlasgowBlue |
Sorry but I don’t feel that I can have a sensible conversation with the poster who referred to the killer of those three beautiful girls murdered in Southport as a “victim”. So follow somebody else around a message board mate. |
Crikey ! I didn’t see that. |  |
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| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 08:49 - Sep 16 with 67 views | reusersfreekicks |
| What the fair, sane, decent, and humane world is up against: on 06:01 - Sep 16 by GlasgowBlue |
As somebody who who has stated on numerous times that Netanyahu is a war criminal who should be on trial in The Hague, the likes of Smotrich and Ben-Gvir are terrorists, that the settlements should not only cease but should be dismantled and believe wholeheartedly in a two state solution, why would I want “less about Palestine on the board”. You seem to be conflating a person of Jewish heritage with Jewish family members who actively speaks out against antisemitism with being a supporter of the Israeli government. I find that abhorrent and insulting.
*And it’s antisemitism, not anti semitism. Please use the preferred spelling.
https://holocaustremembrance.c
**A Google search of TWTD.co.uk/reusersfreekicks/antisemitism throws us just three results.
https://www.google.com/search?
Having checked all three threads there isn’t a single condemnation of antisemitism from you. I’m sure you can link me to your history of speaking out against antisemitism. In that case I would be happy to apologise and admit my mistake. |
Sorry for using the wrong spelling that was a genuine mistake.
Again you have twisted things and sought to label me.
In the past you have complained that people talking about Palestine don't reference other episodes of oppression and murder enough. That is what I meant. I resent you twisting it to infer antisemitism but that is not the first time you have done that and won't he last.
If I am offering agreement on a thread re antisemitism I will not have necessarily used the term.
I can't help it if you don't believe me. That's up to you | | | |
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