| Category One 11:16 - Mar 18 with 2933 views | BudapestByBlimp |
The club made a big push about gaining Category One status several years back and if memory serves me correct we missed out by 0.5% (or thereabouts). Given the club's repeated assertions that we need to produce or own players does anyone know why we didn't achieve the marginal gains required to reach Category One.
Disclaimer - I know nothing of the category ratings, what they entail, their success rates etc, but I'm just curious as to why things didn't progress. |  | | |  |
| Category One on 11:24 - Mar 18 with 2156 views | MattinLondon |
I don’t know the specifics but seem to remember that the club didn’t have a particular software package available at its training ground - sounds too bizarre to have failed on.
But, wasn’t there the feeling that the auditors didn’t want a club from outside the PL from having a category one academy and they were looking at ways to fail the club? |  | | |
| Category One on 11:41 - Mar 18 with 2116 views | BlueWorldOrder |
| Category One on 11:24 - Mar 18 by MattinLondon |
I don’t know the specifics but seem to remember that the club didn’t have a particular software package available at its training ground - sounds too bizarre to have failed on.
But, wasn’t there the feeling that the auditors didn’t want a club from outside the PL from having a category one academy and they were looking at ways to fail the club? |
That is how Evans span it, yeah. But he also told the national press a mob of supporters burned down our training ground a few weeks ago. Our Academy isn't very good these days and has been in steady decline since Evans took over. |  |
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| Category One on 11:54 - Mar 18 with 2061 views | MattinLondon |
| Category One on 11:41 - Mar 18 by BlueWorldOrder |
That is how Evans span it, yeah. But he also told the national press a mob of supporters burned down our training ground a few weeks ago. Our Academy isn't very good these days and has been in steady decline since Evans took over. |
A bit like every other aspect of the club.
Evans out. | | | |
| Category One on 12:02 - Mar 18 with 2033 views | Darth_Koont |
| Category One on 11:24 - Mar 18 by MattinLondon |
I don’t know the specifics but seem to remember that the club didn’t have a particular software package available at its training ground - sounds too bizarre to have failed on.
But, wasn’t there the feeling that the auditors didn’t want a club from outside the PL from having a category one academy and they were looking at ways to fail the club? |
Something about playing level reached by recent Academy graduates as well, wasn’t there? Which I seem to remember was also a Catch-22 stitch-up for non-Prem clubs. |  |
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| Category One on 16:15 - Mar 18 with 1905 views | chrismakin |
Wasnt it even smaller than that something like 0.02% |  |
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| Category One on 16:19 - Mar 18 with 1900 views | PhilTWTD |
| Category One on 12:02 - Mar 18 by Darth_Koont |
Something about playing level reached by recent Academy graduates as well, wasn’t there? Which I seem to remember was also a Catch-22 stitch-up for non-Prem clubs. |
That was the biggest factor, too few players had come through in the previous five years. The software thing was a secondary issue, I think.
Since then the goalposts have moved and it's harder and more and more expensive to attain. There's also been a feeling that the Premier League doesn't particularly want non-top flight clubs to be cat one.
When the EPPP was envisaged it wasn't expected that so many clubs would go cat one, it was meant for the really big clubs at the time but now there's something like 27 or 28.
Town still have cat one as a serious aim, I know Lee O'Neill very much wants to do it but I don't see it happening in League One. |  | | |
| Category One on 16:27 - Mar 18 with 1868 views | BseaBlue |
| Category One on 16:19 - Mar 18 by PhilTWTD |
That was the biggest factor, too few players had come through in the previous five years. The software thing was a secondary issue, I think.
Since then the goalposts have moved and it's harder and more and more expensive to attain. There's also been a feeling that the Premier League doesn't particularly want non-top flight clubs to be cat one.
When the EPPP was envisaged it wasn't expected that so many clubs would go cat one, it was meant for the really big clubs at the time but now there's something like 27 or 28.
Town still have cat one as a serious aim, I know Lee O'Neill very much wants to do it but I don't see it happening in League One. |
I dont see it happening under Evans if it means investment in infrastructure! |  | | |
| Category One on 16:29 - Mar 18 with 1857 views | PhilTWTD |
| Category One on 16:27 - Mar 18 by BseaBlue |
I dont see it happening under Evans if it means investment in infrastructure! |
Academy already costs £2m a year and if I remember rightly it was suggested that cat one would double it. I know it was seriously being considered prior to Covid, although I suspect only on a return to the Championship. | | | |
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| Category One on 16:31 - Mar 18 with 1848 views | MattinLondon |
| Category One on 16:29 - Mar 18 by PhilTWTD |
Academy already costs £2m a year and if I remember rightly it was suggested that cat one would double it. I know it was seriously being considered prior to Covid, although I suspect only on a return to the Championship. |
Phil, what are the main advantages to having a category one academy? Can you just recruit more youngsters from a wider area? | | | |
| Category One on 16:31 - Mar 18 with 1847 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Category One on 16:29 - Mar 18 by PhilTWTD |
Academy already costs £2m a year and if I remember rightly it was suggested that cat one would double it. I know it was seriously being considered prior to Covid, although I suspect only on a return to the Championship. |
I had £5m figure in the back of my head. It's a lot of money for us and I can't see it happening in a month of Sundays. Presumably it's not included in FFP rules though? |  |
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| Category One on 16:35 - Mar 18 with 1832 views | chrismakin |
| Category One on 16:31 - Mar 18 by Swansea_Blue |
I had £5m figure in the back of my head. It's a lot of money for us and I can't see it happening in a month of Sundays. Presumably it's not included in FFP rules though? |
How different is cat 1 really unless you're a prem side
Even if you are cat 1 in champ or league 1.. wouldnt the prem.sides still come and grab all your best youngsters for tribunal compensation. | |
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| Category One on 16:38 - Mar 18 with 1826 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Category One on 16:35 - Mar 18 by chrismakin |
How different is cat 1 really unless you're a prem side
Even if you are cat 1 in champ or league 1.. wouldnt the prem.sides still come and grab all your best youngsters for tribunal compensation. |
I suspect that would be the case. People would be more likely to also pick a PL club given a choice. Not that I know much about it. Isn't the biggest benefit that you are allowed to recruit from a larger geographical area if you're a Cat 1? | |
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| Category One on 16:40 - Mar 18 with 1819 views | PhilTWTD |
| Category One on 16:31 - Mar 18 by MattinLondon |
Phil, what are the main advantages to having a category one academy? Can you just recruit more youngsters from a wider area? |
Theoretically it gives you more ability to poach youngsters from other clubs before they've signed scholarships. Cat one would help to some degree on that and might help us keep hold of a more but whether it would make a big difference I'm not sure. Man City, Arsenal etc would still be a bigger draw for kids and they're the clubs we've lost players to in recent years.
The main thing which Bryan Klug cited when I spoke to him about it a number of years ago was the games programme, being able to play the bigger clubs and the better players as opposed to the teams we play now. | | | |
| Category One on 16:40 - Mar 18 with 1811 views | PhilTWTD |
| Category One on 16:31 - Mar 18 by Swansea_Blue |
I had £5m figure in the back of my head. It's a lot of money for us and I can't see it happening in a month of Sundays. Presumably it's not included in FFP rules though? |
No, outside FFP rules, although as it stands there are no FFP rules for League One going into next year as the salary cap has been scrapped. | | | |
| Category One on 16:42 - Mar 18 with 1792 views | chrismakin |
| Category One on 16:40 - Mar 18 by PhilTWTD |
No, outside FFP rules, although as it stands there are no FFP rules for League One going into next year as the salary cap has been scrapped. |
Am I right in thinking it's also to late for the EFL to bring g in any form of cap for next season as needs at least 6 months notice? | |
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| Category One on 16:42 - Mar 18 with 1793 views | MattinLondon |
| Category One on 16:40 - Mar 18 by PhilTWTD |
Theoretically it gives you more ability to poach youngsters from other clubs before they've signed scholarships. Cat one would help to some degree on that and might help us keep hold of a more but whether it would make a big difference I'm not sure. Man City, Arsenal etc would still be a bigger draw for kids and they're the clubs we've lost players to in recent years.
The main thing which Bryan Klug cited when I spoke to him about it a number of years ago was the games programme, being able to play the bigger clubs and the better players as opposed to the teams we play now. |
On a similar subject Phil, do you know how the youngsters are doing who went to arsenal and Man City? | | | |
| Category One on 16:44 - Mar 18 with 1787 views | hype313 |
| Category One on 16:40 - Mar 18 by PhilTWTD |
Theoretically it gives you more ability to poach youngsters from other clubs before they've signed scholarships. Cat one would help to some degree on that and might help us keep hold of a more but whether it would make a big difference I'm not sure. Man City, Arsenal etc would still be a bigger draw for kids and they're the clubs we've lost players to in recent years.
The main thing which Bryan Klug cited when I spoke to him about it a number of years ago was the games programme, being able to play the bigger clubs and the better players as opposed to the teams we play now. |
£4m seems a hefty charge to essentially cast the net a little bit wider and doesn't offer the security of your talent from the big boys.
I'm no Evans fan, but that would seem like a colossal amount of money for a club in League One. |  |
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| Category One on 16:45 - Mar 18 with 1782 views | chrismakin |
| Category One on 16:44 - Mar 18 by hype313 |
£4m seems a hefty charge to essentially cast the net a little bit wider and doesn't offer the security of your talent from the big boys.
I'm no Evans fan, but that would seem like a colossal amount of money for a club in League One. |
I wouldnt do it unless a prem club.
Recruit for promotion purposes and once in the prem then concentrate on bringing in youth but seeing 1 or 2 coming in not aiming for 50% academy products. | |
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| Category One on 16:46 - Mar 18 with 1781 views | itfcjoe |
| Category One on 16:19 - Mar 18 by PhilTWTD |
That was the biggest factor, too few players had come through in the previous five years. The software thing was a secondary issue, I think.
Since then the goalposts have moved and it's harder and more and more expensive to attain. There's also been a feeling that the Premier League doesn't particularly want non-top flight clubs to be cat one.
When the EPPP was envisaged it wasn't expected that so many clubs would go cat one, it was meant for the really big clubs at the time but now there's something like 27 or 28.
Town still have cat one as a serious aim, I know Lee O'Neill very much wants to do it but I don't see it happening in League One. |
I think the Pl not wanting non PL teams to get it was a bit of an excuse - Brighton, Derby and Leeds all achieved that status whilst having been outside the top flight for a very long epriod |  |
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| Category One on 17:40 - Mar 18 with 1697 views | BudapestByBlimp |
Thanks everyone for your responses. | | | |
| Category One on 17:45 - Mar 18 with 1688 views | ZXBlue |
I would say that it is because it is a closed shop and the goalposts get moved to keep the little lower clubs out. |  | | |
| Category One on 17:52 - Mar 18 with 1675 views | TieDyedIn95 |
| Category One on 16:29 - Mar 18 by PhilTWTD |
Academy already costs £2m a year and if I remember rightly it was suggested that cat one would double it. I know it was seriously being considered prior to Covid, although I suspect only on a return to the Championship. |
Might be a slightly unpopular opinion, but you may recall at the time of Royle leaving us, apparently the main difference between he and Sheepshanks was Royle was in favour of disbanding the academy for a season or so and using the funds to get the club back into the Premier League first, well maybe Royle at the time was right given what's happened since! |  |
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| Category One on 17:54 - Mar 18 with 1671 views | PhilTWTD |
| Category One on 16:46 - Mar 18 by itfcjoe |
I think the Pl not wanting non PL teams to get it was a bit of an excuse - Brighton, Derby and Leeds all achieved that status whilst having been outside the top flight for a very long epriod |
Perhaps more the case that Premier League clubs didn't want too many more joining them, which inevitably came from outside the top flight.
This post has been edited by an administrator | | | |
| Category One on 17:59 - Mar 18 with 1643 views | PhilTWTD |
| Category One on 16:42 - Mar 18 by chrismakin |
Am I right in thinking it's also to late for the EFL to bring g in any form of cap for next season as needs at least 6 months notice? |
They didn't need it last season. They were going to consult with the clubs about what they're going to do to next on the League One FFP front. | | | |
| Category One on 18:57 - Mar 18 with 1536 views | George03 |
| Category One on 17:59 - Mar 18 by PhilTWTD |
They didn't need it last season. They were going to consult with the clubs about what they're going to do to next on the League One FFP front. |
Do you suspect it will be back to a % of revenue type cap, rather than a set amount like this year? [Post edited 18 Mar 2021 18:58]
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