| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction 13:57 - Mar 22 with 2927 views | unstableblue |
.. and other such myths??
I have a small group of friends who have been in a bit of an echo chamber together and have gone very extreme in their views: 'the harmless virus', government control is out of control, the whole Covid-19 reaction is a farce, genuinely as much risk as typical winter flu, BBC are the worst and government controlled, masks invade civil liberties.
I should add these are very bright people, who claim much research, but they are going very 'gammon', consuming certain media channels, 'thought' leaders, and its now causing rifts with other friends. I've avoided it, but am wondering.
Yes I think the deaths have been overstated; and yes the damage to the economy is a VERY significant risk as compared to the impact of the virus; the wait list and deferred treatment is a VERY big concern....
BUt the position this group take seems just wrong. I go to reputable news outlets, and I get this?:
https://www.ft.com/video/0cd6f9f9-664e-40f9-bad4-dde59d7c746c
What are your views on Covid? do you have friends similarly extreme? are they lost and not worth continuing with? get them back to Portman Road so they've got something else to get worked up about? |  |
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| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 14:14 - Mar 22 with 1617 views | wkj |
There are people on here with dead relatives that are all the proof you need that Covid was not an over reaction.
/end of thread. [Post edited 22 Mar 2021 14:15]
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| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 14:23 - Mar 22 with 1615 views | BlueBadger |
I've seen dozens of corpses, spoken to dozens of distressed families over the phone and via Zoom, held the hands of dozens of the dying and have essentially traumatised myself to the point where I'm not going to be able to work in ITU again.
Anyone spouting 'let's play down 140,000+ mourning families 'bullsh1t around me is rapidly going to find themselves NOT my friend anymore and on the receiving end of a gobful.
They're not 'bright people', they're wilfully ignorant borderline sociopaths.
140,000+ people, the fourth highest death toll in the world is, unless you're also a wilfully ignorant borderline sociopath yourself, NOT overstating it.
Economies can be repaired, delays to elective lists can be caught up with. Corpses can't.
[Post edited 22 Mar 2021 14:59]
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| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 14:25 - Mar 22 with 1578 views | vilanovablue |
| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 14:14 - Mar 22 by wkj |
There are people on here with dead relatives that are all the proof you need that Covid was not an over reaction.
/end of thread. [Post edited 22 Mar 2021 14:15]
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I know people who have multiple friends and family die which I think is all the proof I need. Also look at excess mortality stats the last time the figures were that high was when we were fighting a world war. |  | | |
| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 14:30 - Mar 22 with 1562 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
They don't sound like very bright people.
Honestly, why would governments make this up? It's a worldwide thing - when have the governments of the world EVER agreed on something?
And what do you mean the deaths are overstated? Why would they be (surely if anything the govt. would UNDERstate them to look like they're doing a better job)?
And then you see the hell the NHS staff are going through in the various reports on the wards. Are these all making it up too?
What is this 'research' your mates are claiming? It's a bit vague. 'Research' to them could be watching David Ike videos.
Anyone doubting this virus, and the severity of it, is a moron IMO. And an offensive one at that. Thankfully I don't have any friends like that. I understand people love being controversial, and conspiracy theories can be exciting, but when it comes to belittling the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, it's a fecking disgrace. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 14:35 - Mar 22 with 1538 views | DropCliffsNotBombs |
In the past, your 'mates' were dickheads about Town and our football under MM.
Seems they've branched out. |  | | |
| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 14:36 - Mar 22 with 1527 views | BlueBadger |
| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 14:35 - Mar 22 by DropCliffsNotBombs |
In the past, your 'mates' were dickheads about Town and our football under MM.
Seems they've branched out. |
It's OK because most of the deaths weren't very 'technical'. | |
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| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 14:36 - Mar 22 with 1534 views | unstableblue |
| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 14:14 - Mar 22 by wkj |
There are people on here with dead relatives that are all the proof you need that Covid was not an over reaction.
/end of thread. [Post edited 22 Mar 2021 14:15]
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Completely get your point. It is that simple. They would say that there were similar levels of excess deaths in 2018 which is BS from my research.
I have a friend with long Covid, who's in a terrible state. Again that is reason enough.
I guess you've put into mind, that there is no justification for their position and they should be treated with disdain. | |
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| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 14:36 - Mar 22 with 1524 views | Herbivore |
Your mates are bellends, give them a dry slap. |  |
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| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 14:37 - Mar 22 with 1526 views | BlueBadger |
| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 14:36 - Mar 22 by unstableblue |
Completely get your point. It is that simple. They would say that there were similar levels of excess deaths in 2018 which is BS from my research.
I have a friend with long Covid, who's in a terrible state. Again that is reason enough.
I guess you've put into mind, that there is no justification for their position and they should be treated with disdain. |
'Yes I think the deaths have been overstated'
As should you, frankly. | |
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| HELPFUL - thanks team; (n/t) on 14:46 - Mar 22 with 1493 views | unstableblue |
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| One of my mates..... on 14:56 - Mar 22 with 1459 views | Bloots |
....died from it a couple of weeks ago, he was a husband and a father, as well as a "mate" to many people.
It's very real.
I didn't need confirmation that it was real before he died, because I'm not an idiot.
Your friends, however, are idiots. |  |
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| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 15:04 - Mar 22 with 1423 views | gordon |
What do you mean by: 'yes I think deaths have been overstated' - do you think there is a conspiracy to make our COVID response seem even worse than it actually has been? [Post edited 22 Mar 2021 15:05]
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| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 15:06 - Mar 22 with 1418 views | bluelagos |
I think the key to challenging CV deniers, is the number of excess deaths, figures produced by the ONS and independent of any government spin. And as you pointed out, the figures for the past year are way in excess of previous years, including years where say Flu was bad.
The other thing I'd ask of them, is do they think every other country is also suffering a "harmless virus"? Do they also have out of control governments? Because if you believe the virus is harmless, then you must believe that pretty much every country in the world is needlessly bringing in controls to control the virus.
I'd also maybe try and cut them a bit of slack too. Falling for conspiracy theories doesn't make you a bad person per se. The level of trust in our governments is low for a reason, because they have a history of lying to us to get the things they want. Our current lot are even led by someone sacked twice for dishonesty. To not trust our current leaders is a perfectly rational position imho.
But to also ignore the weight of scientific evidence, that is far from rational. |  |
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| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 15:09 - Mar 22 with 1400 views | Ryorry |
Think you need to treat your current friends like I hope Paul Cook will treat our current players during the next window.
Give most of 'em the boot & get some new ones 👠|  |
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| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 15:18 - Mar 22 with 1367 views | IP4_Blue |
| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 14:23 - Mar 22 by BlueBadger |
I've seen dozens of corpses, spoken to dozens of distressed families over the phone and via Zoom, held the hands of dozens of the dying and have essentially traumatised myself to the point where I'm not going to be able to work in ITU again.
Anyone spouting 'let's play down 140,000+ mourning families 'bullsh1t around me is rapidly going to find themselves NOT my friend anymore and on the receiving end of a gobful.
They're not 'bright people', they're wilfully ignorant borderline sociopaths.
140,000+ people, the fourth highest death toll in the world is, unless you're also a wilfully ignorant borderline sociopath yourself, NOT overstating it.
Economies can be repaired, delays to elective lists can be caught up with. Corpses can't.
[Post edited 22 Mar 2021 14:59]
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Awful cannot imagine what it must have been like in ITU, my missus is a health visitor who worked at Ipswich hospital and still has a friend who works in ITU now she said a romanian died of COVID last year in his 30's just awful.
Agreed the economy can be repaired will take time but it will |  | | |
| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 15:18 - Mar 22 with 1370 views | Chondzoresk |
I lost 2 family members to this Diease within a month of each other. So much for harmless. |  | | |
| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 15:22 - Mar 22 with 1349 views | IP4_Blue |
| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 15:18 - Mar 22 by Chondzoresk |
I lost 2 family members to this Diease within a month of each other. So much for harmless. |
And you still get people that say it's not real
Sorry for your loss | | | |
| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 15:28 - Mar 22 with 1335 views | m14_blue |
Get some new mates.
They’re not your family, you should choose better people to spend your time with. | | | |
| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 15:32 - Mar 22 with 1314 views | StokieBlue |
"I should add these are very bright people, who claim much research"
This is clearly not the case and I would suggest that you need to reappraise how you evaluation the intelligence of someone.
I'm actually considering your position in the "very bright people" bracket with this statement:
"Yes I think the deaths have been overstated"
I don't even know what that is supposed to mean but if anything the deaths globally have been hugely understated. If we had excess deaths figures for everywhere (India for instance) I think you'd see a far higher death toll attributed to Covid.
Research is useless if it's undertaken with an existing internal bias and from dubious sources.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 15:34 - Mar 22 with 1298 views | BlueBadger |
| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 15:28 - Mar 22 by m14_blue |
Get some new mates.
They’re not your family, you should choose better people to spend your time with. |
It's all Mick's fault, he drove off the original set of mates. The ones who liked free beer and Technical Football stayed. | |
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| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 15:35 - Mar 22 with 1295 views | footers |
| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 15:28 - Mar 22 by m14_blue |
Get some new mates.
They’re not your family, you should choose better people to spend your time with. |
You can judge a man by the company he keeps. |  |
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| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 15:35 - Mar 22 with 1297 views | StokieBlue |
| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 15:06 - Mar 22 by bluelagos |
I think the key to challenging CV deniers, is the number of excess deaths, figures produced by the ONS and independent of any government spin. And as you pointed out, the figures for the past year are way in excess of previous years, including years where say Flu was bad.
The other thing I'd ask of them, is do they think every other country is also suffering a "harmless virus"? Do they also have out of control governments? Because if you believe the virus is harmless, then you must believe that pretty much every country in the world is needlessly bringing in controls to control the virus.
I'd also maybe try and cut them a bit of slack too. Falling for conspiracy theories doesn't make you a bad person per se. The level of trust in our governments is low for a reason, because they have a history of lying to us to get the things they want. Our current lot are even led by someone sacked twice for dishonesty. To not trust our current leaders is a perfectly rational position imho.
But to also ignore the weight of scientific evidence, that is far from rational. |
I'm not sure we should be giving people an out like you have in your third paragraph when we are more than a year into a pandemic with millions of people dead globally.
Sooner or later we need to draw a line and say it is their fault for falling for conspiracy theories. It's not like they haven't had sufficient time or abundant good resources with which to dispel the theory, they just don't want to do that.
Frankly, I've had enough of the excuses with regards to this.
SB [Post edited 22 Mar 2021 15:35]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 15:44 - Mar 22 with 1263 views | bluelagos |
| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 15:35 - Mar 22 by StokieBlue |
I'm not sure we should be giving people an out like you have in your third paragraph when we are more than a year into a pandemic with millions of people dead globally.
Sooner or later we need to draw a line and say it is their fault for falling for conspiracy theories. It's not like they haven't had sufficient time or abundant good resources with which to dispel the theory, they just don't want to do that.
Frankly, I've had enough of the excuses with regards to this.
SB [Post edited 22 Mar 2021 15:35]
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I think if people haven't grasped the seriousness of CV by now - I don't think they ever will tbh.
But I also think there are wider issues of why people fall for conspiracy theories. But I don't think it is because they are "bad people" as many do. Happy to concede they are not the brightest and/or being rational.
Not giving anyone a "free pass" - but if we are going to address why people fall for conspiracy theories then understanding their thinking is surely the first step, as frustrating as it is. | |
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| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 15:48 - Mar 22 with 1238 views | StokieBlue |
| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 15:44 - Mar 22 by bluelagos |
I think if people haven't grasped the seriousness of CV by now - I don't think they ever will tbh.
But I also think there are wider issues of why people fall for conspiracy theories. But I don't think it is because they are "bad people" as many do. Happy to concede they are not the brightest and/or being rational.
Not giving anyone a "free pass" - but if we are going to address why people fall for conspiracy theories then understanding their thinking is surely the first step, as frustrating as it is. |
"Conspiracy Theories" is a generalised term.
I am talking around the specific nonsense around C19 which might have been plausible to some in the first few months of the pandemic but more than a year later all the theories are clearly nonsense given the deaths and sadness that has happened.
There are countless resources out there which they could read which would counter every point they believe to be true but they chose not to. I know this is due to confirmation bias and the insidious nature of conspiracy theories but when do we stop trying to make excuses for them and call out what is hugely offensive nonsense to the millions who have lost family and friends?
The C19 conspiracy theories are far from harmless, we aren't talking the grassy knoll here.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 15:48 - Mar 22 with 1235 views | footers |
| What's the TWTD thoughts on mask, lock-down and Covid being an over reaction on 15:44 - Mar 22 by bluelagos |
I think if people haven't grasped the seriousness of CV by now - I don't think they ever will tbh.
But I also think there are wider issues of why people fall for conspiracy theories. But I don't think it is because they are "bad people" as many do. Happy to concede they are not the brightest and/or being rational.
Not giving anyone a "free pass" - but if we are going to address why people fall for conspiracy theories then understanding their thinking is surely the first step, as frustrating as it is. |
It all stems from a need to create meaning where there is none in the world, don't you think? That's what it boils down to for me, whether it's conspiracies, religion, monarchy, aliens or what have you: there's always something bigger than the individual who dictates what happens in simple terms, whereas in reality the world has very little direction or meaning to it. Which is probably quite unsettling for us apes, really. | |
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