| Childcare costs 08:13 - Jul 11 with 1726 views | RobTheMonk |
As some of you may know, Madge and I recently had twins. We're now at the stage where we've started thinking about when Madge's maternity ends in January and how best to combat the costs of childcare, which if you have more than one child are pretty high, especially where we are.
Do we have any stay-at-home parents here? Seriously considering one of us becoming a stay-at-home parent to offset the childcare costs....
Madge's parents are over 4 hours away. My Mum is 10 minutes away, but she's knocking on a bit now and it wouldn't be fair to ask her. Other family are nowhere near so that's out of the question.
Other potential option is a move up North to be closer to Madge's parents as the price of Oxfordshire is ludicrous. Downside being that the majority of our personal and professional lives are here.
We'll make it work somehow, but any thoughts would be welcome. |  | | |  |
| Childcare costs on 08:21 - Jul 11 with 1691 views | EddyJ |
Going through a similar decision process. We have discussed a number of options:
1) Parental care. Best for the children. Can be cost effective for lower earners.
2) Family care. Second best for the children. Most cost effective. Needs family nearby who are willing and wont burn out.
3) Nursery. Expensive, especially if you have more than one. If you earn <100k, you can get "tax free childcare", which refunds some but not all of the tax you'd pay.
4) Child minder. Less expensive and more variable experience than nursery. Very much depends on who you find. Qualifies for tax free childcare.
5) Nanny. This is not as expensive as you might think and may end up more cost effective than nursery or a child minder if you have two. Qualifies for tax free childcare. |  | | |
| Childcare costs on 08:22 - Jul 11 with 1680 views | wkj |
Do check the housing prices in Burnley. |  |
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| Childcare costs on 08:22 - Jul 11 with 1679 views | giant_stow |
I spose it depends what you both do for work and how flexible you can be with hours. Me and Mrs ullaa are both freelance so we both chip in with child care depending on diaries and commitments, but that does need serious, often short notice flexibility. Lovely being so involved in the littleun's life more than I might have, but also sometimes tough to make it work.
I guess with twins it's a harder ask for you and Madge, but potentially more rewarding than childcare and perhaps cheaper even with the hit to incomes.
My mate in Norwich however is a stay at home dad, and I think he would rather be at work (finds it lonely and at times crushing), so that actually might be a trickier option than both chipping in [Post edited 11 Jul 2022 8:26]
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| Childcare costs on 08:26 - Jul 11 with 1667 views | itfcjoe |
Obviously does'nt work for everyone but my wife works 3 days, my in parents have them 1 day and then we have 2 days to pay for - works out just about ok for us with earning levels and balancing staying in work.
If you could do something like that and maybe go down yourself to 4 days to pick another day up?
Whilst nurseries are expensive, it does help them with interacting with other children and developing things like speech - and having regular contact with professionals who may be able to spot if any developmental problems need a little look at |  |
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| Adoption? (n/t) on 08:27 - Jul 11 with 1637 views | Bloots |
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| Childcare costs on 08:28 - Jul 11 with 1636 views | PrideOfTheEast |
Depends on your jobs to some extent - presumably 5 years down the line you’d both probably want to be working again, unless one of you has the appetite never to go back. So how easy would it be to go back at the level you’re leaving?
Childminders are typically relatively affordable, ie since they’re looking after multiple kids at once in their own home. We had a nanny which wasn’t as expensive as you might think but when you factor in all the employment stuff, pension, tax etc isn’t cheap although I imagine comparable to nursery for two.
I’d say don’t give up work unless you really want to do it. I’ve seen it cause a fair amount of resentment in some cases but equally seemingly happy ever after in others. | | | |
| Childcare costs on 08:46 - Jul 11 with 1543 views | clive_baker |
As Joe says, rather than going full stay at home, perhaps consider both reducing your hours. You might find that it’s a) tax efficient and b) gives you both the continuous employment which makes it easier to scale those hours back up as and when. You, of course, also both get valuable time with your little ones.
There’s no right answer, my advice would just be to explore all the options and see which fits best both short and longer term. There’s a big disparity between what my wife and I earn so it was a bit of a no brainier that she significantly reduced her hours and now does 2 days per week. She works for the NHS so there’s always demand for her work, whereas mine is more niche so it suited us better for me to stay in full time employment. As a result my wife now pays next to no tax, saves on travel 3 days per week, and across the other 2 days we have a combination of parental help and a nursery. At £70 a day its ok once per week, but I can see how it would quickly add up for multiple days.
Good luck |  |
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| Childcare costs on 09:13 - Jul 11 with 1479 views | TractorBrew |
| Childcare costs on 08:21 - Jul 11 by EddyJ |
Going through a similar decision process. We have discussed a number of options:
1) Parental care. Best for the children. Can be cost effective for lower earners.
2) Family care. Second best for the children. Most cost effective. Needs family nearby who are willing and wont burn out.
3) Nursery. Expensive, especially if you have more than one. If you earn <100k, you can get "tax free childcare", which refunds some but not all of the tax you'd pay.
4) Child minder. Less expensive and more variable experience than nursery. Very much depends on who you find. Qualifies for tax free childcare.
5) Nanny. This is not as expensive as you might think and may end up more cost effective than nursery or a child minder if you have two. Qualifies for tax free childcare. |
Controversial statement that parental care is best for the child, and intrigued what it is based upon. Of course you will focus on their safety and wellbeing the most, but there is a much broader consideration than just that.
From personal experience, friends and family who have gone down the parental care route have found it hardest to integrate their children when they do start pre-school/school. Others started down this route, but have ended up putting their children in to childcare to give them more social interaction, and also give themselves a break.
Obviously lockdowns have played a massive role in this with a lack of baby groups etc, and we are very fortunate that we had an exceptional childminder, but if you do your due diligence a blended approach is often a good one. Of course not every case, and it is about what works for you.
Costs are obscene though - it can be a very fine line when it comes to the financial benefit even on a very good salary. Even the costs of groups and the inevitable coffees/cake when going solo mount up quickly. | | | |
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| Childcare costs on 09:40 - Jul 11 with 1435 views | mattrolow |
You really need to think about yourselves as much as the children. As someone else has said, being a stay at home parent can be really tough mentally. I'm sure we all love our kids, but it's nice to go to work and be an adult at times too!
We originally did three days of nursery and my wife only worked three days but after a while it didn't really work with the demands of her work and even though we only took home about £50 more a month she switched to four days and we did four days of nursery (the free childcare at three really helps).
He's an only child and the difference between lockdown when nursery was closed and when he went back was striking. It's developed him so much and, personally, I think some time around other children of different ages too is great for them. Even if it's a couple of days. | | | |
| Childcare costs on 09:50 - Jul 11 with 1404 views | EddyJ |
| Childcare costs on 09:13 - Jul 11 by TractorBrew |
Controversial statement that parental care is best for the child, and intrigued what it is based upon. Of course you will focus on their safety and wellbeing the most, but there is a much broader consideration than just that.
From personal experience, friends and family who have gone down the parental care route have found it hardest to integrate their children when they do start pre-school/school. Others started down this route, but have ended up putting their children in to childcare to give them more social interaction, and also give themselves a break.
Obviously lockdowns have played a massive role in this with a lack of baby groups etc, and we are very fortunate that we had an exceptional childminder, but if you do your due diligence a blended approach is often a good one. Of course not every case, and it is about what works for you.
Costs are obscene though - it can be a very fine line when it comes to the financial benefit even on a very good salary. Even the costs of groups and the inevitable coffees/cake when going solo mount up quickly. |
At a young age, (i.e. preschool), the most important relationship a child has is with its parents. Those bonds are crucially to a child's emotional development, social development and academic achievement.
Children obviously need other things as well, including interactions with other adults and children. There are ways to do this while the parents are the primary caregivers including baby groups and play dates.
There is always a risk of parental burnout. Children need stimulation - lots of eye contact, conversation etc... If they are not getting that at home, nursery might be preferable. A mixed approach probably offers most families a good balance between high-quality parental attention and peer socialisation while giving the parents a break.
Edit: summary of academic research on benefits of parental care here: https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/going-beyond-intelligence/201702/prescho [Post edited 11 Jul 2022 10:01]
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| Childcare costs on 10:00 - Jul 11 with 1372 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Just the beginning. Eton fees of £45,000 a year x2. Bullingham club membership uniforms £2,500 each. Range Rover to take them to prep school £75,000. SUV hybrid to pretend to be environmentally concerned £50,000. Sprogs are expensive
The sensible thing to do is for one or both of you to look after your own children - especially as ‘working’ from home is now considered a viable option.
Long time ago - but we bit the bullet, started a business - and Mrs E also looked after a friends kid for some cash in hand - which I’d recommend when they get old enough to play together | |
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| Childcare costs on 10:00 - Jul 11 with 1371 views | docklandsblue |
When we had twins we ended up going down the Nanny route, it was cheaper than putting both of them into childcare at the same time. We did that until they were eligible for the 'free' hours at nursery. You just have to make sure you check all the tax stuff out as that can be a nightmare (there's plenty of online resources to help though)
Good luck. Oh and buy The Baby Sleep Guide off amazon, you wont regret it, was a literal life saver for us. | | | |
| Childcare costs on 12:22 - Jul 11 with 1227 views | TractorBrew |
| Childcare costs on 09:50 - Jul 11 by EddyJ |
At a young age, (i.e. preschool), the most important relationship a child has is with its parents. Those bonds are crucially to a child's emotional development, social development and academic achievement.
Children obviously need other things as well, including interactions with other adults and children. There are ways to do this while the parents are the primary caregivers including baby groups and play dates.
There is always a risk of parental burnout. Children need stimulation - lots of eye contact, conversation etc... If they are not getting that at home, nursery might be preferable. A mixed approach probably offers most families a good balance between high-quality parental attention and peer socialisation while giving the parents a break.
Edit: summary of academic research on benefits of parental care here: https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/going-beyond-intelligence/201702/prescho [Post edited 11 Jul 2022 10:01]
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Thanks for the clarification, totally agree on this. Original post was a bit vague hence my question. I know some true earth mother types who look down on those that don't end their own life and career to devote every second to their child, and make out childcare is for evil folk...
Burnout is a big thing. Saw someone say working from home enables you to provide care - this isn't sustainable as anyone who has tried knows - especially if you work in a 9-5 environment | | | |
| Childcare costs on 12:32 - Jul 11 with 1195 views | chicoazul |
| Childcare costs on 09:13 - Jul 11 by TractorBrew |
Controversial statement that parental care is best for the child, and intrigued what it is based upon. Of course you will focus on their safety and wellbeing the most, but there is a much broader consideration than just that.
From personal experience, friends and family who have gone down the parental care route have found it hardest to integrate their children when they do start pre-school/school. Others started down this route, but have ended up putting their children in to childcare to give them more social interaction, and also give themselves a break.
Obviously lockdowns have played a massive role in this with a lack of baby groups etc, and we are very fortunate that we had an exceptional childminder, but if you do your due diligence a blended approach is often a good one. Of course not every case, and it is about what works for you.
Costs are obscene though - it can be a very fine line when it comes to the financial benefit even on a very good salary. Even the costs of groups and the inevitable coffees/cake when going solo mount up quickly. |
The idea that it is even arguable that parental care is best for a child is mad and a perfect analogue for our modern society. |  |
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| Childcare costs on 12:43 - Jul 11 with 1159 views | giant_stow |
| Childcare costs on 12:32 - Jul 11 by chicoazul |
The idea that it is even arguable that parental care is best for a child is mad and a perfect analogue for our modern society. |
[You've gone and got started now]
Actually, I sort of agree with you, but the arguments above in favour of increased socialisation of kids at nursery are fair too. A mic of both is best maybe?! | |
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| Childcare costs on 12:46 - Jul 11 with 1147 views | mattrolow |
| Childcare costs on 12:32 - Jul 11 by chicoazul |
The idea that it is even arguable that parental care is best for a child is mad and a perfect analogue for our modern society. |
It depends on your setup.
I only have one child and I can't give him the social skills around other children that a nursery or childminder can. One child having two parents' constant attention (other than purposefully ignoring them) is also not a good trait for them to learn for when they integrate into school and, to be honest, life beyond the age of four.
A mix of the two, in my opinion, is really important for them to learn and develop. But that is my opinion, in my situation. | | | |
| Childcare costs on 13:05 - Jul 11 with 1110 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Childcare costs on 12:32 - Jul 11 by chicoazul |
The idea that it is even arguable that parental care is best for a child is mad and a perfect analogue for our modern society. |
It's not controversial at all that kids can also benefit form interactions with other kids, which is what that line of questioning was about.
Besides, there are some right headcase parents around too! |  |
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| Childcare costs on 13:11 - Jul 11 with 1095 views | Swansea_Blue |
I took a break from work when we had our first (it fit in with a need to relocate anyway). It was brilliant. I definitely developed a stronger bond and I got to go to the park and zoo all the time - what's not to like?
I think I enjoyed being off work as much as being with the nipper, but still! It was good fun and highly recommended. As others have said, maybe a blended version with a slight cut in hours (if doable and affordable) and a bit of structured childcare thrown in could be worth exploring? Ours still had 1 day a week in nursery even when I was off as we wanted him to get used to other kids before starting school. We both worked full time with our second and I felt like I missed out on something. | |
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| Childcare costs on 14:14 - Jul 11 with 1037 views | chicoazul |
| Childcare costs on 13:05 - Jul 11 by Swansea_Blue |
It's not controversial at all that kids can also benefit form interactions with other kids, which is what that line of questioning was about.
Besides, there are some right headcase parents around too! |
Literally not what I said. | |
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| Childcare costs on 14:20 - Jul 11 with 1025 views | JammyDodgerrr |
My wife is a stay at home mum - i earn 32K and we just about make it work. It is tough, financially, even more so recently, but the sacrifice is worth it for the time with our daughter. We don't have any family around as my mum passed away recently and pretty much with nursery costs, what she would earn doing a retail job or something in the day would almost completely be offset so we just didn't deem it worth it. |  |
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| Childcare costs on 14:30 - Jul 11 with 1000 views | hype313 |
It's harrowing, we had 2 in nursery at the same time, the 30 hours free came at a opportune time, we were paying for 4 days for both, best part of £1600 a month. My wifes salary covered the childcare but not much left over, it's brutal but she needed to stay in her job and we just had to put up with it knowing that better (financial days were ahead).
I feel your pain, not sure what to suggest in all honesty, even if you could be closer to family it's a big ask to get in law or mother to look after for more than 2 days a week, unless you're really lucky.
If you can somehow manage to muddle through then do that, however, we were paying nursery when Fuel was £1.06 a ltr and Energy bills were £120 a month, obviously now it would be far tougher. |  |
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| Childcare costs on 14:37 - Jul 11 with 989 views | RobTheMonk |
| Childcare costs on 14:30 - Jul 11 by hype313 |
It's harrowing, we had 2 in nursery at the same time, the 30 hours free came at a opportune time, we were paying for 4 days for both, best part of £1600 a month. My wifes salary covered the childcare but not much left over, it's brutal but she needed to stay in her job and we just had to put up with it knowing that better (financial days were ahead).
I feel your pain, not sure what to suggest in all honesty, even if you could be closer to family it's a big ask to get in law or mother to look after for more than 2 days a week, unless you're really lucky.
If you can somehow manage to muddle through then do that, however, we were paying nursery when Fuel was £1.06 a ltr and Energy bills were £120 a month, obviously now it would be far tougher. |
Yep, the added costs of everything isn't a fun prospect either.
Thanks to all the comments so far. It's always good to hear what others have done in similar situations. | | | |
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