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Climate change - poor messaging? 09:45 - Jul 27 with 3127 viewsTrequartista

We often hear that the earth will heat by 1 or 2 degrees in the next however many years. I think people hear that and think ooh 22c instead of 21c on a June afternoon in England lubbly jubbly. I certainly did at first. I think we should stop talking in these terms and keep talking as in 40 degree summers will soon be the norm, as I read this morning. I think this would resonate more, not that we can do a lot about it as individuals other than disrupt snooker matches.

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Climate change - poor messaging? on 09:47 - Jul 27 with 2302 viewsStokieBlue

I think the messaging is pretty clear to anyone who actually looks at what the scientists are saying. They have also been framing it in "future norms" for quite a while as well as the more generalised levels of warming.

Those who want to deny are going to deny regardless of how the information is presented.

SB
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Climate change - poor messaging? on 10:05 - Jul 27 with 2240 viewsNthQldITFC

The thing is that many people will still see 40C norms as "ooh, summer holiday at home, lovely". It's the consequences on crops, water and wildlife, as well as the knock on consequences of famine, war and the collapse of inter-connected natural and farming systems that should be scaring the sh!t out of everybody NOW.

Not scaring the sh!t out of everybody for the sake of it, but scaring the sh!t out of everybody because the gentle messages, the consensus-limited UN IPCC science, the warnings in the Guardian and on Sky News, the David Attenborough programmes have done fk all to make us change our ways.

We have a choice between ignoring it and living out peaceful society's remaining years (or decades?), pretending to change and pretending we're doing our bit, or actually making massive fundamental changes to the way we live as a species and actually trying to improve our outlook.

Very much like someone with a probable terminal disease just gving up, or actually having the balls to try to fight it, even if the odds are not that great.

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Climate change - poor messaging? on 10:12 - Jul 27 with 2224 viewsGlasgowBlue

Climate change - poor messaging? on 09:47 - Jul 27 by StokieBlue

I think the messaging is pretty clear to anyone who actually looks at what the scientists are saying. They have also been framing it in "future norms" for quite a while as well as the more generalised levels of warming.

Those who want to deny are going to deny regardless of how the information is presented.

SB


The biggest struggle I have up here with most people of my age is that a few degrees warmer would be a godsend to them.

They don’t seem overly concerned that their children’s generation will see the sort of adverse weather that is becoming the norm in southern Europe.

Some of these people are not the most sympathetic to increased immigration. I try to explain that the knock on effect of the planet getting hotter will see a mass exodus of African migrants. It doesn’t compute with them.

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Climate change - poor messaging? on 10:12 - Jul 27 with 2209 viewsElephantintheRoom

40 degree summers in the UK (well for a few days once every five years) can be very pleasant indeed, as it was last year - and as it has been in the Med for a few hundred years. Those old enough to remember the summer of 1959 remember basking in glorious sunshine then too.

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Climate change - poor messaging? on 10:16 - Jul 27 with 2183 viewsPinewoodblue

Climate change - poor messaging? on 10:12 - Jul 27 by GlasgowBlue

The biggest struggle I have up here with most people of my age is that a few degrees warmer would be a godsend to them.

They don’t seem overly concerned that their children’s generation will see the sort of adverse weather that is becoming the norm in southern Europe.

Some of these people are not the most sympathetic to increased immigration. I try to explain that the knock on effect of the planet getting hotter will see a mass exodus of African migrants. It doesn’t compute with them.


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Climate change - poor messaging? on 10:17 - Jul 27 with 2183 viewsKeno

Climate change - poor messaging? on 10:12 - Jul 27 by ElephantintheRoom

40 degree summers in the UK (well for a few days once every five years) can be very pleasant indeed, as it was last year - and as it has been in the Med for a few hundred years. Those old enough to remember the summer of 1959 remember basking in glorious sunshine then too.

Fact is you can throw as much orange confetti as you like - it won’t stop the rest of the world doing what they want nor will it stop guardian readers flying


and obviously its all hokum anyway

its cold today and Ive put mu fleece on

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Climate change - poor messaging? on 10:23 - Jul 27 with 2162 viewsJ2BLUE

I think we should be seeing adverts of how this is going to impact the average person. It will sound horrible but a significant number of people want to see us take an iron fist on issues like refugees. Being told the polar ice caps are melting and it's going to wipe out the polar bears is not enough for a lot of people.

The consequences feel too far away and too far removed from everyday life. People need to be told in detail what is likely to happen and the impact it will have on them and their family.

This might be more controversial but I do feel we need to change our mindset. Humans have survival instincts which make being selfish far more natural than we would like to admit. Some people want to save the planet and hug trees. My belief is that many more only REALLY care about issues close to them. This isn't some self hating attack on humanity. I am not someone who believes humans are scum and deserve to become extinct but I do think we need to be more realistic about what motivates the average person.

I know people will point to Brexit and how the truth gets twisted to Project Fear but it's not like the current strategy is working. I don't think there is any way to get people on board that isn't going to get pushback. If it involves the government people will push back. If it doesn't, they will push back against wherever the funding comes from.

I think it would work better if a group of independent scientists really lay it out how this is going to impact Dave and Brenda in Birmingham and their kids/grandkids. If this has already been done I haven't seen it.

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Climate change - poor messaging? on 10:23 - Jul 27 with 2163 viewsNthQldITFC

Climate change - poor messaging? on 10:12 - Jul 27 by ElephantintheRoom

40 degree summers in the UK (well for a few days once every five years) can be very pleasant indeed, as it was last year - and as it has been in the Med for a few hundred years. Those old enough to remember the summer of 1959 remember basking in glorious sunshine then too.

Fact is you can throw as much orange confetti as you like - it won’t stop the rest of the world doing what they want nor will it stop guardian readers flying


I don't know how much of a weird troll you are, and how much of your stated opinion is genuine, but if you think this is about the odd few days of localised weather events and are ignoring the bigger picture...

...sorry, pointless post.

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Climate change - poor messaging? on 10:24 - Jul 27 with 2156 viewsthe_toff

Climate change - poor messaging? on 10:12 - Jul 27 by GlasgowBlue

The biggest struggle I have up here with most people of my age is that a few degrees warmer would be a godsend to them.

They don’t seem overly concerned that their children’s generation will see the sort of adverse weather that is becoming the norm in southern Europe.

Some of these people are not the most sympathetic to increased immigration. I try to explain that the knock on effect of the planet getting hotter will see a mass exodus of African migrants. It doesn’t compute with them.


Surprising really as I would’ve thought the thing that might resonate with the typical climate change denier might be that 1.2 billion Africans will need to live somewhere, and Europe is probably a realistic option.
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Climate change - poor messaging? on 10:30 - Jul 27 with 2125 viewsStokieBlue

Climate change - poor messaging? on 10:23 - Jul 27 by J2BLUE

I think we should be seeing adverts of how this is going to impact the average person. It will sound horrible but a significant number of people want to see us take an iron fist on issues like refugees. Being told the polar ice caps are melting and it's going to wipe out the polar bears is not enough for a lot of people.

The consequences feel too far away and too far removed from everyday life. People need to be told in detail what is likely to happen and the impact it will have on them and their family.

This might be more controversial but I do feel we need to change our mindset. Humans have survival instincts which make being selfish far more natural than we would like to admit. Some people want to save the planet and hug trees. My belief is that many more only REALLY care about issues close to them. This isn't some self hating attack on humanity. I am not someone who believes humans are scum and deserve to become extinct but I do think we need to be more realistic about what motivates the average person.

I know people will point to Brexit and how the truth gets twisted to Project Fear but it's not like the current strategy is working. I don't think there is any way to get people on board that isn't going to get pushback. If it involves the government people will push back. If it doesn't, they will push back against wherever the funding comes from.

I think it would work better if a group of independent scientists really lay it out how this is going to impact Dave and Brenda in Birmingham and their kids/grandkids. If this has already been done I haven't seen it.


"I think it would work better if a group of independent scientists really lay it out how this is going to impact Dave and Brenda in Birmingham and their kids/grandkids. If this has already been done I haven't seen it."

Unfortunately there is a number of people who don't believe what scientists say and feel that alternative opinions which aren't supported by evidence are just as valid.

We have a few posters on here who push that narrative in their posts.

Given that I'm not really sure it would work. It also why Sunak is pivoting away from his climate pledges - there is a tranche of people who don't want to hear it.

SB
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Climate change - poor messaging? on 10:39 - Jul 27 with 2108 viewsJ2BLUE

Climate change - poor messaging? on 10:30 - Jul 27 by StokieBlue

"I think it would work better if a group of independent scientists really lay it out how this is going to impact Dave and Brenda in Birmingham and their kids/grandkids. If this has already been done I haven't seen it."

Unfortunately there is a number of people who don't believe what scientists say and feel that alternative opinions which aren't supported by evidence are just as valid.

We have a few posters on here who push that narrative in their posts.

Given that I'm not really sure it would work. It also why Sunak is pivoting away from his climate pledges - there is a tranche of people who don't want to hear it.

SB


We don't need to reach the fringe of loons. We need to reach those in the middle who know it's not good but it's easier to bury their head in the same and believe something will save us.

If we can get 60-70% onboard this should only grow as younger voters turn 18.

Slightly off topic but we should also be spending money on securing our future water security. That is the most terrifying part of all this IMO. We should be investing in desalination technology. I know it's expensive but i'm not sure it an issue at this point. We need to act now.

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Climate change - poor messaging? on 10:40 - Jul 27 with 2106 viewsSuperKieranMcKenna

The highlighting of summer temperatures is probably a fair point - it’s consistently messaged in the media. However, people might not be so keen on the bitterly cold winters that will set in once the Gulf Stream breaks down.

That said I think it’s all pretty futile now since we are not on track to meet any of the targets to minimise climate change. Only a much bigger global effort can swing this, and there’s little evidence to believe that will happen.
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Climate change - poor messaging? on 10:48 - Jul 27 with 2079 viewsStokieBlue

Climate change - poor messaging? on 10:39 - Jul 27 by J2BLUE

We don't need to reach the fringe of loons. We need to reach those in the middle who know it's not good but it's easier to bury their head in the same and believe something will save us.

If we can get 60-70% onboard this should only grow as younger voters turn 18.

Slightly off topic but we should also be spending money on securing our future water security. That is the most terrifying part of all this IMO. We should be investing in desalination technology. I know it's expensive but i'm not sure it an issue at this point. We need to act now.


The UK isn't short of water, only the south and east of England is really short of water. I would think that water transference projects (canals) would be more cost efficient than desalination plants but I haven't looked that up.

It's worth noting that desalination itself isn't prohibitively expensive, it's that the energy required for either thermal or reverse osmosis processes is very high and usually requires a dedicated power plant to supply the desalination plant.

SB
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Climate change - poor messaging? on 10:48 - Jul 27 with 2077 viewsKeno

Climate change - poor messaging? on 10:12 - Jul 27 by GlasgowBlue

The biggest struggle I have up here with most people of my age is that a few degrees warmer would be a godsend to them.

They don’t seem overly concerned that their children’s generation will see the sort of adverse weather that is becoming the norm in southern Europe.

Some of these people are not the most sympathetic to increased immigration. I try to explain that the knock on effect of the planet getting hotter will see a mass exodus of African migrants. It doesn’t compute with them.


reminds me of this


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Climate change - poor messaging? on 10:50 - Jul 27 with 2079 viewsblueasfook

Climate change - poor messaging? on 10:23 - Jul 27 by J2BLUE

I think we should be seeing adverts of how this is going to impact the average person. It will sound horrible but a significant number of people want to see us take an iron fist on issues like refugees. Being told the polar ice caps are melting and it's going to wipe out the polar bears is not enough for a lot of people.

The consequences feel too far away and too far removed from everyday life. People need to be told in detail what is likely to happen and the impact it will have on them and their family.

This might be more controversial but I do feel we need to change our mindset. Humans have survival instincts which make being selfish far more natural than we would like to admit. Some people want to save the planet and hug trees. My belief is that many more only REALLY care about issues close to them. This isn't some self hating attack on humanity. I am not someone who believes humans are scum and deserve to become extinct but I do think we need to be more realistic about what motivates the average person.

I know people will point to Brexit and how the truth gets twisted to Project Fear but it's not like the current strategy is working. I don't think there is any way to get people on board that isn't going to get pushback. If it involves the government people will push back. If it doesn't, they will push back against wherever the funding comes from.

I think it would work better if a group of independent scientists really lay it out how this is going to impact Dave and Brenda in Birmingham and their kids/grandkids. If this has already been done I haven't seen it.


I have said this before. In the west, we are generally taking strides to become greener and reducing dependency on carbon fuels (Maybe we could/should be doing more). The big polluters like the US, and particularly China and India are the ones who are dragging their feet. India wouldnt even commit to the pledges that eveyone else signed up to in COP26.

Any small steps we may take as a country will have a little or no impact when the major polluters are still churning out millions of tonnes of carbon emissions.

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Climate change - poor messaging? on 10:51 - Jul 27 with 2072 viewsNthQldITFC

Climate change - poor messaging? on 10:23 - Jul 27 by J2BLUE

I think we should be seeing adverts of how this is going to impact the average person. It will sound horrible but a significant number of people want to see us take an iron fist on issues like refugees. Being told the polar ice caps are melting and it's going to wipe out the polar bears is not enough for a lot of people.

The consequences feel too far away and too far removed from everyday life. People need to be told in detail what is likely to happen and the impact it will have on them and their family.

This might be more controversial but I do feel we need to change our mindset. Humans have survival instincts which make being selfish far more natural than we would like to admit. Some people want to save the planet and hug trees. My belief is that many more only REALLY care about issues close to them. This isn't some self hating attack on humanity. I am not someone who believes humans are scum and deserve to become extinct but I do think we need to be more realistic about what motivates the average person.

I know people will point to Brexit and how the truth gets twisted to Project Fear but it's not like the current strategy is working. I don't think there is any way to get people on board that isn't going to get pushback. If it involves the government people will push back. If it doesn't, they will push back against wherever the funding comes from.

I think it would work better if a group of independent scientists really lay it out how this is going to impact Dave and Brenda in Birmingham and their kids/grandkids. If this has already been done I haven't seen it.


I think it's been done, but the messaging hasn't necessarily come from a place that Dave and Brenda really want to listen to.

I'd like to see a bunch of like-minded celebrities get together with popular scientists and more obscure specialists and form a nouveau-politique (don't know what that phrase means, just made it up) which can speak to the modern electorate/public without boring it or speaking over its head. But with a precept to NOT sugar coat the pill.

Edit: A precept, not a mandate.
[Post edited 27 Jul 2023 10:56]

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Climate change - poor messaging? on 10:57 - Jul 27 with 2023 viewsStokieBlue

Climate change - poor messaging? on 10:50 - Jul 27 by blueasfook

I have said this before. In the west, we are generally taking strides to become greener and reducing dependency on carbon fuels (Maybe we could/should be doing more). The big polluters like the US, and particularly China and India are the ones who are dragging their feet. India wouldnt even commit to the pledges that eveyone else signed up to in COP26.

Any small steps we may take as a country will have a little or no impact when the major polluters are still churning out millions of tonnes of carbon emissions.


Whilst I have some sympathy with your point it kind of falls within the "nirvana fallacy" in that just because the solution isn't perfect we shouldn't try and do something.

We should try and move to a zero carbon framework even if others aren't, it can't hurt and over the longer term it's going to be cheaper to do it sooner rather than later. It could also open up opportunities to sell on technology we've used to other countries starting their changes later.

For instance, if the EU and the UK went zero carbon then that would reduce global emissions by ~10%. It's not enough clearly and it's far from perfect but it's still a significant portion of emissions.

As it stands India and China are lost causes but the US might make the required changes, it'll depend if it's in their economic best interests (ie. cheaper than using carbon).

I guess China would create a lot less emissions if we didn't buy and import so much stuff from there but that's a separate argument.

SB
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Climate change - poor messaging? on 10:58 - Jul 27 with 2023 viewsNeedhamChris

I wonder at what point we move away from sitting in roads and throwing confetti - and move towards bombing and arson campaigns.

Edit: I'm not advocating that and I don't mean in the UK specifically, but human history is full of people turning very desperate about their cause and therefore doing extreme measures.

Sincerely hope we don't get there
[Post edited 27 Jul 2023 11:16]

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Climate change - poor messaging? on 11:05 - Jul 27 with 1993 viewsthe_toff

Climate change - poor messaging? on 10:50 - Jul 27 by blueasfook

I have said this before. In the west, we are generally taking strides to become greener and reducing dependency on carbon fuels (Maybe we could/should be doing more). The big polluters like the US, and particularly China and India are the ones who are dragging their feet. India wouldnt even commit to the pledges that eveyone else signed up to in COP26.

Any small steps we may take as a country will have a little or no impact when the major polluters are still churning out millions of tonnes of carbon emissions.


To play devils advocate slightly, if you're India you'll be sitting there thinking 'hang on a second. You've burned through fossil fuels for centuries, benefitted from the industrial revolution, built a society with strong infrastructure, high levels of education and literacy, higher life expectancy and access to what are considered basic rights. All off the back of the fruits of the industries that have contributed to climate change. Now it's our turn you say no, you can't do it'. I can see their point.
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Climate change - poor messaging? on 11:29 - Jul 27 with 1925 viewsStokieBlue

Climate change - poor messaging? on 11:05 - Jul 27 by the_toff

To play devils advocate slightly, if you're India you'll be sitting there thinking 'hang on a second. You've burned through fossil fuels for centuries, benefitted from the industrial revolution, built a society with strong infrastructure, high levels of education and literacy, higher life expectancy and access to what are considered basic rights. All off the back of the fruits of the industries that have contributed to climate change. Now it's our turn you say no, you can't do it'. I can see their point.


It's a fair argument to make, although the counter argument is that whilst we did benefit hugely from those emissions our population was only 40-60m.

India is currently somewhere north of 1.6bn and making virtually no efforts to curb their population growth. Scaling the emissions equivalently to what the UK historically used would actually be far more emissions overall.

Conversely, the population of China has peaked and will begin to shrink over the next decades and they have also invested a lot in their infrastructure already. It's conceivable that India will be the largest emitter in a few decades time.

It's not an easy problem to solve given the differing levels of development and vested interests. Nobody really wants to see their standard of life curtailed or even decrease.

SB
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Climate change - poor messaging? on 12:37 - Jul 27 with 1819 viewsGrandpa

BORED

BORING

Have you seen the weather this July? I don't think we've bought enough Land Rovers or patio heaters
[Post edited 27 Jul 2023 16:52]
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Climate change - poor messaging? on 12:46 - Jul 27 with 1782 viewshype313

Climate change - poor messaging? on 11:29 - Jul 27 by StokieBlue

It's a fair argument to make, although the counter argument is that whilst we did benefit hugely from those emissions our population was only 40-60m.

India is currently somewhere north of 1.6bn and making virtually no efforts to curb their population growth. Scaling the emissions equivalently to what the UK historically used would actually be far more emissions overall.

Conversely, the population of China has peaked and will begin to shrink over the next decades and they have also invested a lot in their infrastructure already. It's conceivable that India will be the largest emitter in a few decades time.

It's not an easy problem to solve given the differing levels of development and vested interests. Nobody really wants to see their standard of life curtailed or even decrease.

SB


The biggest issue I see is that the people in charge, who can make the biggest changes, will be gone before the proverbial hits the fan, so they seem ambivalent towards doing anything that will affect their current status quo.

And rinse and repeat.

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Climate change - poor messaging? on 12:47 - Jul 27 with 1773 viewsJ2BLUE

Climate change - poor messaging? on 12:37 - Jul 27 by Grandpa

BORED

BORING

Have you seen the weather this July? I don't think we've bought enough Land Rovers or patio heaters
[Post edited 27 Jul 2023 16:52]



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Climate change - poor messaging? on 13:05 - Jul 27 with 1705 viewsBlueBadger

Climate change - poor messaging? on 12:47 - Jul 27 by J2BLUE



Simpsons gifs always make stuff better.

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Climate change - poor messaging? on 13:06 - Jul 27 with 1701 viewsElephantintheRoom

Climate change - poor messaging? on 10:23 - Jul 27 by NthQldITFC

I don't know how much of a weird troll you are, and how much of your stated opinion is genuine, but if you think this is about the odd few days of localised weather events and are ignoring the bigger picture...

...sorry, pointless post.


Yes your point is utterly pointless - born of ignorance and a closed mind perhaps. The misunderstanding that many people have is that ‘average’ exists - it’s never has done and never will. Guardian readers might also be surprised to know that people living in cold countries, which kind of includes the UK like it when it gets hot. That’s why they go on holiday or go to the beach.

The home of Franchise FC, Phoenix has been pretty hot recently - the longest number of consecutive days over 40 since, erm the 1950s. But guess what it IS pretty hot in a desert. Death Valley also almost reached temperatures last seen in the 50s - but not as hot as the 1920s.

The reason most people don’t care is because it doesn’t affect them - and unless India, Russia, China and the USA do something then nothing any Guardian reader does will stop it getting marginally warmer which as that EU supporting whisky salesman pointed out the other day could be quite good for the UK. Not quite so good for the Maldives perhaps.

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