| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? 22:35 - Jun 20 with 7778 views | redrickstuhaart |
Change the shape, change the approach, find a new way mid tournament? |  | | |  |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 22:36 - Jun 20 with 5042 views | You_Bloo_Right |
Never mind if he has the courage, he doesn't have the nous. |  |
| |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 22:39 - Jun 20 with 5024 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
No.
Nor does he have the footballing intelligence, he’s using tactics from 15+ years ago.
He’s taken some of the most potent and exciting attacking players in the world (Kane, Foden, Bellingham, and Saka) and employed a low block against DENMARK. Another feeble performance, and weasel words from GS.
Roll on August… | | | |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 22:41 - Jun 20 with 5008 views | BloomBlue |
If you're talking about the 1986 World Cup as I said on another post, Sir Bob's critics always said he only changed it because he was forced to change it with Byran Robson's injury and Wilkins sending off in the 2nd game, which meant they both had to miss the 3rd game.
Robson's critics always moaned he would never drop his favourites like Robson & Wilkins even though both had been cr&p in the first 2 games. |  | | |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 22:42 - Jun 20 with 5000 views | FrimleyBlue |
I've got it
Ramsdale
Walker
Stones
Guehi
Davis
Mainoo
Gallagher
Palmer
Bellingham
Grealish
Foden |  |
| |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 22:45 - Jun 20 with 4976 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 22:42 - Jun 20 by FrimleyBlue |
I've got it
Ramsdale
Walker
Stones
Guehi
Davis
Mainoo
Gallagher
Palmer
Bellingham
Grealish
Foden |
It’s the tactics that are th problem, not the players.
You are simply shuffling deckchairs on the titanic… | | | |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 22:46 - Jun 20 with 4957 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 22:45 - Jun 20 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
It’s the tactics that are th problem, not the players.
You are simply shuffling deckchairs on the titanic… |
True. But it might make him realise he can't play defensively. | |
| |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 23:32 - Jun 20 with 4798 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 22:46 - Jun 20 by FrimleyBlue |
True. But it might make him realise he can't play defensively. |
With the attacking options at his disposal, and five subs available, there was no need to be so defensive. |  |
| |
| Before a ball was kicked... on 23:48 - Jun 20 with 4762 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
....I said Bellingham in the 8 and Foden in the 10.
Make that change, and things will improve.
Foden is a better 10 than Bellingham. Bellingham has the ability to be one of the best 8's in the world.
Yes Bellingham had a great first half of the season as a 10 for RM, but his second half was no where near as productive. |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Before a ball was kicked... on 04:59 - Jun 21 with 4528 views | MK1 |
| Before a ball was kicked... on 23:48 - Jun 20 by Marshalls_Mullet |
....I said Bellingham in the 8 and Foden in the 10.
Make that change, and things will improve.
Foden is a better 10 than Bellingham. Bellingham has the ability to be one of the best 8's in the world.
Yes Bellingham had a great first half of the season as a 10 for RM, but his second half was no where near as productive. |
Go to a 4-3-3. Rice-Bellingham-Gallagher in midfield. Problem all but solved. |  |
| |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 07:45 - Jun 21 with 4295 views | PioneerBlue |
I have been a backer for Gareth Southgate. I do feel his hands were tied a bit by player fitness but still he has failed to ensure he has adequate cover in key areas across the pitch leading into the tournament. Left back is the case in point. Secondly, he selected a youthful squad which had proven no form as a new group (which has World Cup written all over it) but folk still opted to say England are favourites for this tournament? Third, now in this tournament the team looks a bit dysfunctional with no left side attacking width, a midfield that can’t control the game, players that don’t know where they need to be on the pitch to help the team, and Kane making decisions to affect the game on his own 18 yard box.
This might all be on GS however these are top top players and intelligent enough whilst on the pitch to create and find the space to retain the ball and hurt the opposition. GS is not asking them to defend the life out of the game, he has selected attacking players, it’s on the players to work it out on the training pitch there are limits to what an international coach can do in terms of training.
I’d expect a few changes but the die is cast for this tournament and they might play themselves into form but these areas would potentially help things
Start with Cmf pair - not TAA - Bellingham, Mainoo or CG
A proper right back - Walker or TAA
Consider an alternative left back - hands tied should have been Leif
Consider an alternative in the left side 10 - moving JB back allows Foden a central role Gordon/Eze | |
| |
| Before a ball was kicked... on 07:47 - Jun 21 with 4287 views | HighgateBlue |
| Before a ball was kicked... on 04:59 - Jun 21 by MK1 |
Go to a 4-3-3. Rice-Bellingham-Gallagher in midfield. Problem all but solved. |
Gallagher did come on in both matches. Everyone seems to agree that we sat too deep once we'd gone ahead in both games. So if we're too deep, Bellingham included, in what sense have we /not/ got a Rice-Bellingham-Gallagher midfield? I certainly didn't think that Bellingham was sitting too far ahead of the other two. I really don't see how putting coloured dots in a different formation solves the problem given how deep we were sitting. We had the ball less than half of the time. When you don't have the ball, analysing a formation is just like drawing a line of best fit through scatter points on a graph. I'm not sure that drawing those lines in the way you suggest really does anything.
As the BBC pundits were unanimously saying, we need Stones to bring the ball forward like he does for his club, we need the midfield then to push forward (having an imaginary 8 or 10 over Bellingham's head is not really a substitute for giving him proper instructions), and we need runners in behind to make space for the Bellinghams of this world.
There seems to be a malaise of negativity in the way we play. I don't think TAA is working right in the midfield, and I think Southgate needs to use his finishers as liberally as Kieran does (like he was kind of forced to last night). It might be a detail, but I don't see how Palmer and Gordon can have seasons like they've had, and not deserved a minute yet. |  | | |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 07:49 - Jun 21 with 4270 views | NthQldITFC |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 22:45 - Jun 20 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
It’s the tactics that are th problem, not the players.
You are simply shuffling deckchairs on the titanic… |
Tactics and group psychology. Probably 90% the latter - although I'm basing that on watching about one and a half England games in two years, so I'm probably talking out of my Sunak. |  |
| |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 07:51 - Jun 21 with 4255 views | NedPlimpton |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 07:45 - Jun 21 by PioneerBlue |
I have been a backer for Gareth Southgate. I do feel his hands were tied a bit by player fitness but still he has failed to ensure he has adequate cover in key areas across the pitch leading into the tournament. Left back is the case in point. Secondly, he selected a youthful squad which had proven no form as a new group (which has World Cup written all over it) but folk still opted to say England are favourites for this tournament? Third, now in this tournament the team looks a bit dysfunctional with no left side attacking width, a midfield that can’t control the game, players that don’t know where they need to be on the pitch to help the team, and Kane making decisions to affect the game on his own 18 yard box.
This might all be on GS however these are top top players and intelligent enough whilst on the pitch to create and find the space to retain the ball and hurt the opposition. GS is not asking them to defend the life out of the game, he has selected attacking players, it’s on the players to work it out on the training pitch there are limits to what an international coach can do in terms of training.
I’d expect a few changes but the die is cast for this tournament and they might play themselves into form but these areas would potentially help things
Start with Cmf pair - not TAA - Bellingham, Mainoo or CG
A proper right back - Walker or TAA
Consider an alternative left back - hands tied should have been Leif
Consider an alternative in the left side 10 - moving JB back allows Foden a central role Gordon/Eze |
It's on the players to work it out on the training pitch?
Thank God we have McKenna!! |  | | |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 08:01 - Jun 21 with 4214 views | Guthrum |
Is it even that? The problem seemed more like the players didn't understand the system or their places in it and lacked the motivation to have a real go at making it work.
It was a bit like watching a first-lesson new driver who doesn't yet have a feel for how it all works and is terrified of crashing.
One of the most consistent issues was passing the ball - quite slowly - to someone surrounded by three or four converging Danish players with no decent outlet.
Even on occasions when we ran the ball forward, there usually wasn't anybody busting a gut to arrive in support, so Saka (or whoever) had to hold the ball aimlessly until dispossessed. The best tactic later in the game appeared to be long ball with (outnumbered and out-jumped) forwards running onto it - after the taller and sturdier Kane had gone off. |  |
| |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 08:12 - Jun 21 with 4154 views | Pendejo |
Let us remind ourselves, under Southgate, they've been frustrating in the group stage of previous tournaments, but better in knock out stage.
Southgate is, afterall, England's 2nd most "successful" manager WC SF and Euro Final defeat .
Even with those "achievements" I felt when it came down to it we beat ourselves when it came to that last game.
Get thru the group, injury free, then give it everything in KO games.
An almost constant under numerous England managers, trying to shoehorn the XI "best" players into the formation, rather than the best players for the formation. |  |
| |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 08:20 - Jun 21 with 4066 views | bluefunk |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 22:41 - Jun 20 by BloomBlue |
If you're talking about the 1986 World Cup as I said on another post, Sir Bob's critics always said he only changed it because he was forced to change it with Byran Robson's injury and Wilkins sending off in the 2nd game, which meant they both had to miss the 3rd game.
Robson's critics always moaned he would never drop his favourites like Robson & Wilkins even though both had been cr&p in the first 2 games. |
1990, when he switched from a back 4 to a back 3 and wing backs, allegedly after a player “revolt” |  | | |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 08:37 - Jun 21 with 3994 views | itfcjoe |
He has done in the previous two tournaments - after the Scotland draw we saw Saka come in and change things, and after the USA game in WC it was Henderson coming in to give us the balance back and pushing Bellingham on
For all the talk of Southgate, the players look fooked to me - we need players running off Kane, always have done. I think personnel he is getting it wrong with Foden on the left (Should always be Rashford there for me, but guess Gordon in this tournament)....but Bellingham and Saka just don't seem to have the fitness to make runs in behind. Saka has made a few but him and JB just look like it is about conserving energy and playing in fits and starts.
If those runs were being made constantly then Trent in midfielder would be working better because he could find them, he's broken the lines a few times so far in both games with good passes but there is so little energy and movement up top.
We really need McKenna style in it - front 4 run themselves into the ground for 60 minutes then get replaced for the last 30.
I'm not a fan of Trippier at LB, but for all Southgate's criticisms it's got to be hard when no one seems fit and is making basic errors. Rice was excellent Sunday, but I've never seen him play like he did yesterday. For their goal that pass from Kane is something he does in his sleep and one of his big weapons to switch play and he totally shanks it. From literally the first minute we were misplacing simple passes.
I don't think set up wise there is masses wrong - but we've got to get runners around Kane and to make the pitch bigger |  |
| |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 08:51 - Jun 21 with 3927 views | Radlett_blue |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 08:01 - Jun 21 by Guthrum |
Is it even that? The problem seemed more like the players didn't understand the system or their places in it and lacked the motivation to have a real go at making it work.
It was a bit like watching a first-lesson new driver who doesn't yet have a feel for how it all works and is terrified of crashing.
One of the most consistent issues was passing the ball - quite slowly - to someone surrounded by three or four converging Danish players with no decent outlet.
Even on occasions when we ran the ball forward, there usually wasn't anybody busting a gut to arrive in support, so Saka (or whoever) had to hold the ball aimlessly until dispossessed. The best tactic later in the game appeared to be long ball with (outnumbered and out-jumped) forwards running onto it - after the taller and sturdier Kane had gone off. |
Exactly. A lack of energy & movement was a problem from the off. England started on the back foot & it was a fluke that they went 1-0 up, but things got even worse from then. Southgate has admitted himself that the lack of pressing was a major issue, but he's the one who put TAA in midfield. He also bemoaned the absence on the 34 years old Jordan Henderson & Kalvin Phillips, who's played little football over the past 2 years. |  |
| |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 08:55 - Jun 21 with 3898 views | BloomBlue |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 08:20 - Jun 21 by bluefunk |
1990, when he switched from a back 4 to a back 3 and wing backs, allegedly after a player “revolt” |
OK, not sure about a player revolt at 1990.
The 1986 WC has always rattled me as it gave voice to the Robson hating fans (and many existed) about he was too scared to drop certain players, and he only changed the team because he was forced to change. Exacerbated when we then had the worst England performance at a tournament in the 1988 Euros. | | | |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 09:00 - Jun 21 with 3856 views | davblue |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 08:37 - Jun 21 by itfcjoe |
He has done in the previous two tournaments - after the Scotland draw we saw Saka come in and change things, and after the USA game in WC it was Henderson coming in to give us the balance back and pushing Bellingham on
For all the talk of Southgate, the players look fooked to me - we need players running off Kane, always have done. I think personnel he is getting it wrong with Foden on the left (Should always be Rashford there for me, but guess Gordon in this tournament)....but Bellingham and Saka just don't seem to have the fitness to make runs in behind. Saka has made a few but him and JB just look like it is about conserving energy and playing in fits and starts.
If those runs were being made constantly then Trent in midfielder would be working better because he could find them, he's broken the lines a few times so far in both games with good passes but there is so little energy and movement up top.
We really need McKenna style in it - front 4 run themselves into the ground for 60 minutes then get replaced for the last 30.
I'm not a fan of Trippier at LB, but for all Southgate's criticisms it's got to be hard when no one seems fit and is making basic errors. Rice was excellent Sunday, but I've never seen him play like he did yesterday. For their goal that pass from Kane is something he does in his sleep and one of his big weapons to switch play and he totally shanks it. From literally the first minute we were misplacing simple passes.
I don't think set up wise there is masses wrong - but we've got to get runners around Kane and to make the pitch bigger |
Maybe I’m seeing it worse than what it is but I thought there were a lot of problems;
Kane was going too deep too often
Runners beyond him
Our pressing was disjointed
Big gaps between the defence, midfield, attack so press couldn’t be sustained
Midfield 2 isn’t working
Energy did look way off
Our passing was awful
We play like a big Mick team with better players in his latter years.
Get a lead and then stop playing. |  | | |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 09:05 - Jun 21 with 3827 views | itfcjoe |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 09:00 - Jun 21 by davblue |
Maybe I’m seeing it worse than what it is but I thought there were a lot of problems;
Kane was going too deep too often
Runners beyond him
Our pressing was disjointed
Big gaps between the defence, midfield, attack so press couldn’t be sustained
Midfield 2 isn’t working
Energy did look way off
Our passing was awful
We play like a big Mick team with better players in his latter years.
Get a lead and then stop playing. |
I think a number of those issues can get sorted with a couple of changes though.
If you start getting runners in behind, then Kane dropping deep works, then the natural gaps between D, M and A work, then the midfield 2 are able to play more to their strengths then the energy is back in by the runners.
Obviously that doesn't help with the pressing, and Kane can't do that on his own so either need to not press, or press in a later phase as opposed to the mish mash we showed....or the quality of passing....or the players seeming to naturally drop off post a goal but think a lot is sorted if we had say Watkins, Bellingham and Saka as the 3 behind Kane busting their nuts off all game getting in behind and telling Trent to find them. makes the pitch bigger and pushes them back | |
| |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 09:14 - Jun 21 with 3787 views | BloomBlue |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 09:00 - Jun 21 by davblue |
Maybe I’m seeing it worse than what it is but I thought there were a lot of problems;
Kane was going too deep too often
Runners beyond him
Our pressing was disjointed
Big gaps between the defence, midfield, attack so press couldn’t be sustained
Midfield 2 isn’t working
Energy did look way off
Our passing was awful
We play like a big Mick team with better players in his latter years.
Get a lead and then stop playing. |
But Kane has always dropped deep for club and country, that has often allowed him to score a lot of goals. He drops deep gets the ball, plays it wide and then he arrives a few seconds later in the box unmarked.
The problem is the players aren't running beyond Kane. | | | |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 09:39 - Jun 21 with 3726 views | CrayonKing |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 08:37 - Jun 21 by itfcjoe |
He has done in the previous two tournaments - after the Scotland draw we saw Saka come in and change things, and after the USA game in WC it was Henderson coming in to give us the balance back and pushing Bellingham on
For all the talk of Southgate, the players look fooked to me - we need players running off Kane, always have done. I think personnel he is getting it wrong with Foden on the left (Should always be Rashford there for me, but guess Gordon in this tournament)....but Bellingham and Saka just don't seem to have the fitness to make runs in behind. Saka has made a few but him and JB just look like it is about conserving energy and playing in fits and starts.
If those runs were being made constantly then Trent in midfielder would be working better because he could find them, he's broken the lines a few times so far in both games with good passes but there is so little energy and movement up top.
We really need McKenna style in it - front 4 run themselves into the ground for 60 minutes then get replaced for the last 30.
I'm not a fan of Trippier at LB, but for all Southgate's criticisms it's got to be hard when no one seems fit and is making basic errors. Rice was excellent Sunday, but I've never seen him play like he did yesterday. For their goal that pass from Kane is something he does in his sleep and one of his big weapons to switch play and he totally shanks it. From literally the first minute we were misplacing simple passes.
I don't think set up wise there is masses wrong - but we've got to get runners around Kane and to make the pitch bigger |
We were poor with the ball and poor without it. I'd say that counts as masses wrong, although I do agree it's down to more than just the way they're set-up.
The more worrying thing is that from the post-match interviews they don't seem to have any idea how to fix it. Talk of "finding solutions" but surely that's what the last few years should have been about?!
How can you be manager for 8 years and your team still not know the gameplan? do we press, do we sit back and hit on the counter? nobody seems to know. The manager says we wanted to press, but the team certainly didn't. It's a mess.
I do think Southgate gets an element of over-the-top criticism sometimes, but it seems clear to me that his time is coming to an end |  | | |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 09:53 - Jun 21 with 3685 views | Vaughan8 |
He's still barking on about not having a Phillips replacement............what do you think? | | | |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 09:54 - Jun 21 with 3679 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Does Southgate have the balls to do a Bobby Robson? on 22:41 - Jun 20 by BloomBlue |
If you're talking about the 1986 World Cup as I said on another post, Sir Bob's critics always said he only changed it because he was forced to change it with Byran Robson's injury and Wilkins sending off in the 2nd game, which meant they both had to miss the 3rd game.
Robson's critics always moaned he would never drop his favourites like Robson & Wilkins even though both had been cr&p in the first 2 games. |
It was 1990 and it was more a case of player power forcing the change on Sir Bobby, with us playing a sweeper system with three central defenders and wing backs. |  |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
