| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! 13:21 - Jul 18 with 3488 views | sparks |
Apparently "grass roots football" can now do competitive training, with competitive games from August (just 2 weeks away...)
Safeguards in place? Have to do a risk assessment (so clubs and coaches can be blamed if it goes wrong- how amateurs do such a risk assessment properly without scientific input is beyond me). Sanitise hands, clean balls disinfected during breaks in play. What on earth is the point? Football is a close contact sport and you are far more likely to be infected when someone out of breath pants all over you during a tussle, than by touching a ball which might have touched someone elses hand.
It seems the Boris approach rules- regardless of what the chief medicla officers say. I am extremely wary of this as a club chairman. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
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| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 13:33 - Jul 18 with 2814 views | J2BLUE |
I have thought the same about the spraying of the goal posts. Seems utterly pointless but shows the FA are 'taking every precaution' which I assume is why they are doing it, rather than for any actual benefit. |  |
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| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 13:38 - Jul 18 with 2805 views | sparks |
| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 13:33 - Jul 18 by J2BLUE |
I have thought the same about the spraying of the goal posts. Seems utterly pointless but shows the FA are 'taking every precaution' which I assume is why they are doing it, rather than for any actual benefit. |
The Boris approach. be seen to be doing something by taking the easy and palatable steps, ignore the actual issues.
Meanwhile our chief scientific officer(s) are sounding notes of extreme caution... | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 00:02 - Jul 19 with 2620 views | flimflam |
| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 13:38 - Jul 18 by sparks |
The Boris approach. be seen to be doing something by taking the easy and palatable steps, ignore the actual issues.
Meanwhile our chief scientific officer(s) are sounding notes of extreme caution... |
The FA put the guidelines together so not sure how this can be aimed at Boris. |  |
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| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 06:45 - Jul 19 with 2557 views | bluelagos |
Seems to me Bully you are wanting to eliminate all risks, which simply isnt possible. What is possible is to reduce risk and to stop activities that are high risk.
Hence we can't sit at crowded sporting events and/or go to nightclubs.
Playing outdoor sports, with lots of exercise, heavy breathing and possible close contact will have an element of risk. The point about sanitising balls etc, is to minimise the risks.
But if you can tell me an activity that has no risk in it then I'd argue you are probably wrong.
And the benefits from outdoor sport, physical health and mental health are real and tangible. So whilst appreciating you are incredibly wary/scared of the risks of playing football, so long as others are making an informed decision, what is the problem?
By all means don't involve your children, especially if you have vulnerable people in your bubbles, but others can and will have their own attitudes to benefits of playing / socialising vs the risk of doing so. |  |
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| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 08:11 - Jul 19 with 2508 views | sparks |
| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 06:45 - Jul 19 by bluelagos |
Seems to me Bully you are wanting to eliminate all risks, which simply isnt possible. What is possible is to reduce risk and to stop activities that are high risk.
Hence we can't sit at crowded sporting events and/or go to nightclubs.
Playing outdoor sports, with lots of exercise, heavy breathing and possible close contact will have an element of risk. The point about sanitising balls etc, is to minimise the risks.
But if you can tell me an activity that has no risk in it then I'd argue you are probably wrong.
And the benefits from outdoor sport, physical health and mental health are real and tangible. So whilst appreciating you are incredibly wary/scared of the risks of playing football, so long as others are making an informed decision, what is the problem?
By all means don't involve your children, especially if you have vulnerable people in your bubbles, but others can and will have their own attitudes to benefits of playing / socialising vs the risk of doing so. |
The problem is that if there are problems then clubs and coaches will be blamed. The problem is that thanks to boris scattergun approach we are having all sorts of illogical guidance and ploughing ahead at speed under ridiculous instructions like sanitizing balls when that really isn't where the major risk lies.
Cricketers are still in a bio secure bubble. Yet 30 kids can gather from different areas and play full contact football. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 08:33 - Jul 19 with 2487 views | Ace_High1 |
| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 08:11 - Jul 19 by sparks |
The problem is that if there are problems then clubs and coaches will be blamed. The problem is that thanks to boris scattergun approach we are having all sorts of illogical guidance and ploughing ahead at speed under ridiculous instructions like sanitizing balls when that really isn't where the major risk lies.
Cricketers are still in a bio secure bubble. Yet 30 kids can gather from different areas and play full contact football. |
Professional cricket is, but club cricket is now back and that is being played with some new rules/guidance the same as what is being asked of you for football?? |  | | |
| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 08:34 - Jul 19 with 2487 views | bluelagos |
| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 08:11 - Jul 19 by sparks |
The problem is that if there are problems then clubs and coaches will be blamed. The problem is that thanks to boris scattergun approach we are having all sorts of illogical guidance and ploughing ahead at speed under ridiculous instructions like sanitizing balls when that really isn't where the major risk lies.
Cricketers are still in a bio secure bubble. Yet 30 kids can gather from different areas and play full contact football. |
The number of inconsitencies is large, no arguments from me on that.
But I do think there will always be some people way more cautious than others when it comes to what levels of risk are / are not acceptable.
If you are worried about getting blamed the easiest thing to do is issue some sort of disclaimer. The motorbike club I ride with state "You are responsible for your own safety and to ride within the law" before every rideout. I always thought it was ott but can see why it is done now.
A similar communication (as chairman) that parents will need to make their own decision regarding the benefits and risks of their children playing football would be reasonable imho.
It is passing the buck to an extent but I dont see why you should be held responsible for any outbreak / transmission if you are following the guidelines. | |
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| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 08:36 - Jul 19 with 2474 views | sparks |
| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 08:34 - Jul 19 by bluelagos |
The number of inconsitencies is large, no arguments from me on that.
But I do think there will always be some people way more cautious than others when it comes to what levels of risk are / are not acceptable.
If you are worried about getting blamed the easiest thing to do is issue some sort of disclaimer. The motorbike club I ride with state "You are responsible for your own safety and to ride within the law" before every rideout. I always thought it was ott but can see why it is done now.
A similar communication (as chairman) that parents will need to make their own decision regarding the benefits and risks of their children playing football would be reasonable imho.
It is passing the buck to an extent but I dont see why you should be held responsible for any outbreak / transmission if you are following the guidelines. |
I'm more concerned with the prospects of outbreak rather than any liability.
It's worth noting though, that a disclaimer is pretty useless. You cannot disclaim liability for negligence leading to injury.
Three guidelines could be seen as traps or lip service rather than actual practical measures. [Post edited 19 Jul 2020 8:41]
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| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 08:37 - Jul 19 with 2473 views | bluelagos |
| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 08:33 - Jul 19 by Ace_High1 |
Professional cricket is, but club cricket is now back and that is being played with some new rules/guidance the same as what is being asked of you for football?? |
Tbf to Bully, football has way more contact than cricket and more exercise.
Rugby is another level again and I'd be surprised to see rugby with scrums anytime soon. | |
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| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 08:38 - Jul 19 with 2459 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 08:33 - Jul 19 by Ace_High1 |
Professional cricket is, but club cricket is now back and that is being played with some new rules/guidance the same as what is being asked of you for football?? |
Slightly different as it isn’t a contact sport, but agree with the general point
I’m not sure why Bully is surprised, as it was obvious this was coming back from the most recent government announcements |  |
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| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 08:39 - Jul 19 with 2463 views | WD19 |
| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 08:11 - Jul 19 by sparks |
The problem is that if there are problems then clubs and coaches will be blamed. The problem is that thanks to boris scattergun approach we are having all sorts of illogical guidance and ploughing ahead at speed under ridiculous instructions like sanitizing balls when that really isn't where the major risk lies.
Cricketers are still in a bio secure bubble. Yet 30 kids can gather from different areas and play full contact football. |
Only if.....post a risk assessment.....you decide it is OK and the risk is sufficiently small that, on balance, you want to go ahead. Players can then make their own individual decisions based on the known risks.
If you don’t think it is sensible, don’t play.
My life will likely be shortened by having played football (I shattered a knee and snapped a leg. I will have all sorts of mobility problems in old age that will probably bring secondary health issues). Life is not without risk. |  | | |
| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 08:48 - Jul 19 with 2444 views | bluelagos |
| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 08:36 - Jul 19 by sparks |
I'm more concerned with the prospects of outbreak rather than any liability.
It's worth noting though, that a disclaimer is pretty useless. You cannot disclaim liability for negligence leading to injury.
Three guidelines could be seen as traps or lip service rather than actual practical measures. [Post edited 19 Jul 2020 8:41]
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Ok, so the risk of an outbreak is down to those making the rules then. I am guessing you were amongst those concerned with scenes at beaches etc a few weeks back? Yet those concerns seem to be unfullfilled at the moment. Same with the BlM protests?
And if there is an outbreak then there would be a local lockdown, so it would be contained so there is some contingency in place to contain any such out breaks.
Ultimately the social damage done by not doing things (like running around, socialising) is a cost / risk too. By not allowing football you are damaging childrens health / well being. The decisions are a balance of which is the least worst thing to do - risk an infection outbreak vs damage children's health. | |
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| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 08:55 - Jul 19 with 2425 views | bluelagos |
| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 08:39 - Jul 19 by WD19 |
Only if.....post a risk assessment.....you decide it is OK and the risk is sufficiently small that, on balance, you want to go ahead. Players can then make their own individual decisions based on the known risks.
If you don’t think it is sensible, don’t play.
My life will likely be shortened by having played football (I shattered a knee and snapped a leg. I will have all sorts of mobility problems in old age that will probably bring secondary health issues). Life is not without risk. |
And a life without risk would be boring as, imho.
I hired a motorbike in Peru, had a sh1t helmet and jacket, never knew the roads, had no map, the insurance cover was vague at best and roee sole over the Andes and across the Altiplano, one of the harshest and most isolated places on earth. Fcking loved it too :-) | |
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| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 09:59 - Jul 19 with 2363 views | 26_Paz |
I got the same e mail as a club manager. There are certainly some logistical challenges to overcome but nothing that’s not do able. I’m just happy next season can start on time. We all put a lot of time and effort into last season for it to simply be scrapped 3/4 of the way through. All of my players are itching to get back.
You can’t expect Boris to dictate the exact rules on everything as far down as grass roots football. If he’s doing that he’s going to spend all his time micro managing every aspect of life. He has to give general guidance and let the relevant people (in this case the FA) apply them. I’ve got a lot of issues with the way the FA is run but on this one I think they’ve done alright, issued appropriate guidance to minimise risk, if people are happy to accept them then crack on. |  |
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| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 11:12 - Jul 19 with 2315 views | Funge |
| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 08:55 - Jul 19 by bluelagos |
And a life without risk would be boring as, imho.
I hired a motorbike in Peru, had a sh1t helmet and jacket, never knew the roads, had no map, the insurance cover was vague at best and roee sole over the Andes and across the Altiplano, one of the harshest and most isolated places on earth. Fcking loved it too :-) |
That sounds fully brilliant. |  | | |
| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 11:50 - Jul 19 with 2278 views | sparks |
| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 08:39 - Jul 19 by WD19 |
Only if.....post a risk assessment.....you decide it is OK and the risk is sufficiently small that, on balance, you want to go ahead. Players can then make their own individual decisions based on the known risks.
If you don’t think it is sensible, don’t play.
My life will likely be shortened by having played football (I shattered a knee and snapped a leg. I will have all sorts of mobility problems in old age that will probably bring secondary health issues). Life is not without risk. |
Who is doing these risk assessments and making the decisions? Volunteers, with no professional medical input, no experience in preparing risk assessments, varying levels of competence in understanding the science, and with questionable insurance which may or may not cover any problems.
Very differerent to a company making decisions about who comes into the office. Its markedly inconsistent and entirely based on pragmatics. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 15:56 - Jul 19 with 2185 views | bournemouthblue |
Considering all the furore we are having to play Cricket, I'm amazed this will be allowed for a contact sport |  |
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| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 16:47 - Jul 19 with 2149 views | sparks |
| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 15:56 - Jul 19 by bournemouthblue |
Considering all the furore we are having to play Cricket, I'm amazed this will be allowed for a contact sport |
Indeed. The inconsistent messaging is baffling.
Its too dangerous to go in a shop without a mask. But its not too dangerous to get 30 kids in a field, from different towns, panting and tussling with each other, and then going back to their parents- who go into offices the next day.
Basically- it is entirely pragmatic. The policy is clearly to just get back to normal- and to do such things as are easy and palatable to make it look like something is being done to mitigate the risk, when in many instances, thats really not possible. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 17:18 - Jul 19 with 2125 views | Ryorry |
| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 11:50 - Jul 19 by sparks |
Who is doing these risk assessments and making the decisions? Volunteers, with no professional medical input, no experience in preparing risk assessments, varying levels of competence in understanding the science, and with questionable insurance which may or may not cover any problems.
Very differerent to a company making decisions about who comes into the office. Its markedly inconsistent and entirely based on pragmatics. |
I don't know about ordinary grass roots level football, but our walking football (which is non-contact even normally) coach had to email all of us full instructions re bringing our own bibs, water bottles & hand sanitizer as mandatory; strictly limited numbers (so no-one can just turn up); and required a full consent form to be completed with medical details (& next of kin!).
Not sure if they were requirements of the FA or the sports club whose pitches we use, but they're certainly stringent. |  |
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| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 18:40 - Jul 19 with 2082 views | sparks |
| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 17:18 - Jul 19 by Ryorry |
I don't know about ordinary grass roots level football, but our walking football (which is non-contact even normally) coach had to email all of us full instructions re bringing our own bibs, water bottles & hand sanitizer as mandatory; strictly limited numbers (so no-one can just turn up); and required a full consent form to be completed with medical details (& next of kin!).
Not sure if they were requirements of the FA or the sports club whose pitches we use, but they're certainly stringent. |
Itll be the organisers. Who, if they are a professional sports centre, will have systems in place...
We might need to buy a set of bibs and hand them out to kids to keep. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 22:58 - Jul 19 with 2018 views | Plums |
| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 11:50 - Jul 19 by sparks |
Who is doing these risk assessments and making the decisions? Volunteers, with no professional medical input, no experience in preparing risk assessments, varying levels of competence in understanding the science, and with questionable insurance which may or may not cover any problems.
Very differerent to a company making decisions about who comes into the office. Its markedly inconsistent and entirely based on pragmatics. |
I’m just trying to work out what we’re supposed to do with what appears to be 300+ bits of paper per week with everyone’s self declaration of no symptoms and a ‘clear consent’ from parents who by delivering their kids to training have clearly consented to them taking part.
The thought of our ‘COVID officer’ briefing the players of 28 teams before every game means she needs to be in several places at once which she may find tricky.
It’s a CYA operation on a massive scale. |  |
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| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 08:25 - Jul 20 with 1950 views | mikeybloo88 |
| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 16:47 - Jul 19 by sparks |
Indeed. The inconsistent messaging is baffling.
Its too dangerous to go in a shop without a mask. But its not too dangerous to get 30 kids in a field, from different towns, panting and tussling with each other, and then going back to their parents- who go into offices the next day.
Basically- it is entirely pragmatic. The policy is clearly to just get back to normal- and to do such things as are easy and palatable to make it look like something is being done to mitigate the risk, when in many instances, thats really not possible. |
But kids don't spread it don't ya know...least, that's what they told teachers to try to shame them into going back to work |  | | |
| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 10:44 - Jul 20 with 1901 views | Libero |
I'm still not particularly well post Covid, but one of the things that's been keeping me positive is the idea of getting back playing again and being able to use football as part of my recovery.
I've really, really missed playing, not just the games but the comradery and banter.
Playing week in week out makes a huge difference to my mental health, no doubt. |  | | |
| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 08:22 - Jul 24 with 1807 views | Plums |
| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 22:58 - Jul 19 by Plums |
I’m just trying to work out what we’re supposed to do with what appears to be 300+ bits of paper per week with everyone’s self declaration of no symptoms and a ‘clear consent’ from parents who by delivering their kids to training have clearly consented to them taking part.
The thought of our ‘COVID officer’ briefing the players of 28 teams before every game means she needs to be in several places at once which she may find tricky.
It’s a CYA operation on a massive scale. |
Now getting round to filling this bloody thing in and it’s a nightmare. Only available in PDF which doesn’t seem to allow the all important text to wrap so it can’t be read. Spending the next hour or so converting it to excel so it can actually be used/ filtered and sorted. It also contains a load of irrelevant stuff that has nothing to do with Covid whatsoever.
It’s days like this that make me wonder why i bother. | |
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| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 08:26 - Jul 24 with 1798 views | sparks |
| Just received a missive from the FA- following the science?! on 08:22 - Jul 24 by Plums |
Now getting round to filling this bloody thing in and it’s a nightmare. Only available in PDF which doesn’t seem to allow the all important text to wrap so it can’t be read. Spending the next hour or so converting it to excel so it can actually be used/ filtered and sorted. It also contains a load of irrelevant stuff that has nothing to do with Covid whatsoever.
It’s days like this that make me wonder why i bother. |
What document is this? | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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