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Or a catastrophic failure of those idiots returning from an Amber list country (as India was at the time) to follow the rules on testing and self isolation
Don’t fool yourself that everything is the government’s fault and responsibility
Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 15:24 - Jun 10 by Ely_Blue
Or a catastrophic failure of those idiots returning from an Amber list country (as India was at the time) to follow the rules on testing and self isolation
Don’t fool yourself that everything is the government’s fault and responsibility
[Post edited 10 Jun 2021 15:32]
But this is directly due to decisions made by the government.
I posted a thread about moving India to the red list about 10 days before the government did anything about it. Now of course it's almost certain the Delta variant was already here at that point but it would have been in far lower numbers and could have been more manageable.
There was also little consideration given for the demographics of those returning, many live in multi-generational homes and it's doubtful all generations could/would self-isolate.
If they were forced to quarantine in a hotel the decision is outside their control.
Before that I called for France to be red listed due to the SA variant but we didn't do that for economic reasons. It's quite telling that France didn't hang around at all in stopping travel from the UK when the Delta variant started picking up. The government has been too slow and reluctant to make obvious decisions on travel throughout the pandemic.
SB
[Post edited 10 Jun 2021 15:40]
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Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 15:43 - Jun 10 with 2362 views
Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 15:24 - Jun 10 by Ely_Blue
Or a catastrophic failure of those idiots returning from an Amber list country (as India was at the time) to follow the rules on testing and self isolation
Don’t fool yourself that everything is the government’s fault and responsibility
[Post edited 10 Jun 2021 15:32]
A chance to blame foreigners/ethnic minorities rather than the government? Sign me uuuuuuppppp!!!!!!
0
Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 15:46 - Jun 10 with 2346 views
Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 15:37 - Jun 10 by StokieBlue
But this is directly due to decisions made by the government.
I posted a thread about moving India to the red list about 10 days before the government did anything about it. Now of course it's almost certain the Delta variant was already here at that point but it would have been in far lower numbers and could have been more manageable.
There was also little consideration given for the demographics of those returning, many live in multi-generational homes and it's doubtful all generations could/would self-isolate.
If they were forced to quarantine in a hotel the decision is outside their control.
Before that I called for France to be red listed due to the SA variant but we didn't do that for economic reasons. It's quite telling that France didn't hang around at all in stopping travel from the UK when the Delta variant started picking up. The government has been too slow and reluctant to make obvious decisions on travel throughout the pandemic.
SB
[Post edited 10 Jun 2021 15:40]
There is no way you can keep it out, it's impossible.
You can slow it down but you still have to deal with it.
“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.”
Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 15:46 - Jun 10 by Lord_Lucan
There is no way you can keep it out, it's impossible.
You can slow it down but you still have to deal with it.
Well it is possible to keep the vast majority out as per Australia but you are right it's impossible to keep it out forever.
That doesn't mean the government shouldn't have taken action much earlier and reduced the risk by having people quarantine in a hotel.
As it stands, an elderly person could have come back from India and been told to quarantine at home, however they might be living in a multi-generational home which isn't impossible and then the others in the house may become infected but be out and about anyway. That scenario would be impossible if India was red listed when it should have been.
Minimising the risks is key and the government have repeatedly failed to act in order to minimise the risks with regards to travel and variants.
SB
[Post edited 10 Jun 2021 17:17]
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Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 15:58 - Jun 10 with 2283 views
Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 15:24 - Jun 10 by Ely_Blue
Or a catastrophic failure of those idiots returning from an Amber list country (as India was at the time) to follow the rules on testing and self isolation
Don’t fool yourself that everything is the government’s fault and responsibility
[Post edited 10 Jun 2021 15:32]
Of course it's the government's fault.
Yes, some people are irresponsible and some people are selfish idiots who won't follow the rules. The government know this, that's why there's a red list with mandatory quarantine.
Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 15:26 - Jun 10 by SomethingBlue
The Prime Minister should resign because of this. But a supine public and compliant (/complicit) media won't ask for it.
[Post edited 10 Jun 2021 15:26]
If a PM had to resign for getting every decision of this kind wrong, we'd have got through the whole Tory party as PM in the last 16 months, and we'd be back round to Boris again...
0
Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 16:18 - Jun 10 with 2173 views
Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 15:46 - Jun 10 by Lord_Lucan
There is no way you can keep it out, it's impossible.
You can slow it down but you still have to deal with it.
You're right of course but, with the vaccine rollout going so well, slowing it down by even a relatively short period probably would have dealt with it.
3
Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 16:21 - Jun 10 with 2152 views
Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 16:15 - Jun 10 by HighgateBlue
If a PM had to resign for getting every decision of this kind wrong, we'd have got through the whole Tory party as PM in the last 16 months, and we'd be back round to Boris again...
That's not really an argument against though, that just gives the sitting PM free reign to do anything without accountability.
This outcome was obvious, everyone could see we needed to move India to the red list at least 10 days earlier but Boris wanted to go to India to seal a trade deal (which never happened either because he cancelled his trip in the end).
SB
3
Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 16:28 - Jun 10 with 2111 views
Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 15:37 - Jun 10 by StokieBlue
But this is directly due to decisions made by the government.
I posted a thread about moving India to the red list about 10 days before the government did anything about it. Now of course it's almost certain the Delta variant was already here at that point but it would have been in far lower numbers and could have been more manageable.
There was also little consideration given for the demographics of those returning, many live in multi-generational homes and it's doubtful all generations could/would self-isolate.
If they were forced to quarantine in a hotel the decision is outside their control.
Before that I called for France to be red listed due to the SA variant but we didn't do that for economic reasons. It's quite telling that France didn't hang around at all in stopping travel from the UK when the Delta variant started picking up. The government has been too slow and reluctant to make obvious decisions on travel throughout the pandemic.
SB
[Post edited 10 Jun 2021 15:40]
I don’t doubt that the decision not to add india to the red list helped to increase the numbers in the uk, I too was saying to family/friends at the time that the govt should have moved india to the red list.
However you can’t ignore that demographics or not, of those returning from India, ignorance and blatant flouting of the rules around isolation and testing are the responsibility of individuals and not the government
Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 15:55 - Jun 10 by StokieBlue
Well it is possible to keep the vast majority out as per Australia but you are right it's impossible to keep it out forever.
That doesn't mean the government shouldn't have taken action much earlier and reduced the risk by having people quarantine in a hotel.
As it stands, an elderly person could have come back from India and been told to quarantine at home, however they might be living in a multi-generational home which isn't impossible and then the others in the house may become infected but be out and about anyway. That scenario would be impossible if India was red listed when it should have been.
Minimising the risks is key and the government have repeatedly failed to act in order to minimise the risks with regards to travel and variants.
SB
[Post edited 10 Jun 2021 17:17]
I'm not disputing that - but you have in the past wondered why Pakistan was on block and not India because there were more positive tests in India - but do you have data of how many tests Pakistan were actually doing? I think sod all might be the answer.
There are many variables and we are certainly not New Zealand or Australia, I don't think you can compare these far flung under populated, largely non Asian countries to us but there you go.
Here we go - shock horror, I don't necessarily agree with some of the great unwashed on here about delaying so called freedom day.
The vaccine appears to be keeping serious illnesses and deaths at bay, we all knew from the outset that the vaccine doesn't stop you from testing positive.
Covid won't go away and we have to deal with it.
How many people died yesterday who had the Covid? I actually don't know but I think I might have heard that it was 6 people, 6 people who died who have in the past 28 days been tested as having Covid.
So, how many of these 6 who were tested positive in the last 28 days died from cancer, old age, Parkinsons, Dementia? How may got hit by a bus or just died? How many died of covid or died and had covid anyway?
Apparently there is a surge in covid cases in certain areas which the uneducated amongst us might put it down to surge testing.
What happens when we get rid of the Indian variant and then the Russian variant comes through? What are we going to do then?
It isn't beyond the wit of man to see that the brilliant vaccines have got us on the straight and narrow. Unless there is another completely different corona coming your way (and by the way I don't discount that) I think we largely have it licked - I mean, few of us thought it would hit blighty even when it started to whack a few bods in Italy - but it did. Now all of a sudden we are all experts on what we should have done and what we should do now.
My grandson would like to know why he can't understand what the feck is going on at something called "Nursery school" because he has rarely seen another person his age in 18 months.
As for poor old middle aged me, I've had a couple of jabs and guess what, I don't really give a sh1t if I get ill or not, as it happens I have more chance of being plummeted to death by an obnoxious taxi driver who just thinks I am a complete pain in the arse.
I think the massive will of the people is to just start to get on with it, maybe we should have a referendum
How much control do you want and for how long?
“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.”
Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 16:28 - Jun 10 by Ely_Blue
I don’t doubt that the decision not to add india to the red list helped to increase the numbers in the uk, I too was saying to family/friends at the time that the govt should have moved india to the red list.
However you can’t ignore that demographics or not, of those returning from India, ignorance and blatant flouting of the rules around isolation and testing are the responsibility of individuals and not the government
Disagree.
The opportunity wouldn't have arisen for anyone to "flout the rules" if the government had been firmer on the travel restrictions rather than trying to push through a Boris trade mission to India which didn't happen in the end anyway.
SB
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Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 16:33 - Jun 10 with 2070 views
Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 16:28 - Jun 10 by Ely_Blue
I don’t doubt that the decision not to add india to the red list helped to increase the numbers in the uk, I too was saying to family/friends at the time that the govt should have moved india to the red list.
However you can’t ignore that demographics or not, of those returning from India, ignorance and blatant flouting of the rules around isolation and testing are the responsibility of individuals and not the government
If the government are just going to assume that everyone follows the rules all the time then they could save a fortune by disbanding the police and closing the prisons.
No one is absolving the individuals of responsibility but they should never have been given the opportunity.
That is literally the whole point of the red list.
4
Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 16:36 - Jun 10 with 2054 views
Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 15:24 - Jun 10 by Ely_Blue
Or a catastrophic failure of those idiots returning from an Amber list country (as India was at the time) to follow the rules on testing and self isolation
Don’t fool yourself that everything is the government’s fault and responsibility
[Post edited 10 Jun 2021 15:32]
Or it's a failure of the government for not setting up a sufficient and convincing reason for people to self-isolate. It has been pointed out time and time again throughout the last 15 months that people in more deprived areas(where we keep seeing issues!) cannot afford to self isolate because the sick pay is so low and then you have employers who force people to come in with it.
They have not done enough to to help out those, in those areas.
Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 16:30 - Jun 10 by Lord_Lucan
I'm not disputing that - but you have in the past wondered why Pakistan was on block and not India because there were more positive tests in India - but do you have data of how many tests Pakistan were actually doing? I think sod all might be the answer.
There are many variables and we are certainly not New Zealand or Australia, I don't think you can compare these far flung under populated, largely non Asian countries to us but there you go.
Here we go - shock horror, I don't necessarily agree with some of the great unwashed on here about delaying so called freedom day.
The vaccine appears to be keeping serious illnesses and deaths at bay, we all knew from the outset that the vaccine doesn't stop you from testing positive.
Covid won't go away and we have to deal with it.
How many people died yesterday who had the Covid? I actually don't know but I think I might have heard that it was 6 people, 6 people who died who have in the past 28 days been tested as having Covid.
So, how many of these 6 who were tested positive in the last 28 days died from cancer, old age, Parkinsons, Dementia? How may got hit by a bus or just died? How many died of covid or died and had covid anyway?
Apparently there is a surge in covid cases in certain areas which the uneducated amongst us might put it down to surge testing.
What happens when we get rid of the Indian variant and then the Russian variant comes through? What are we going to do then?
It isn't beyond the wit of man to see that the brilliant vaccines have got us on the straight and narrow. Unless there is another completely different corona coming your way (and by the way I don't discount that) I think we largely have it licked - I mean, few of us thought it would hit blighty even when it started to whack a few bods in Italy - but it did. Now all of a sudden we are all experts on what we should have done and what we should do now.
My grandson would like to know why he can't understand what the feck is going on at something called "Nursery school" because he has rarely seen another person his age in 18 months.
As for poor old middle aged me, I've had a couple of jabs and guess what, I don't really give a sh1t if I get ill or not, as it happens I have more chance of being plummeted to death by an obnoxious taxi driver who just thinks I am a complete pain in the arse.
I think the massive will of the people is to just start to get on with it, maybe we should have a referendum
How much control do you want and for how long?
I don't think I've mentioned Pakistan in any of my posts regarding C19.
The other points have mainly been covered in the other thread, you are welcome to read them there if you can be bothered (it's a long thread so I wouldn't blame you if you didn't).
There are certainly valid issues which you have raised with prolonging lockdown (although we aren't locked down much at the moment) and nobody is asking for months, just a data driven approach to opening up rather than arbitrary date set by a PM who continually makes poor decisions.
SB
3
Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 16:39 - Jun 10 with 2037 views
Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 16:21 - Jun 10 by StokieBlue
That's not really an argument against though, that just gives the sitting PM free reign to do anything without accountability.
This outcome was obvious, everyone could see we needed to move India to the red list at least 10 days earlier but Boris wanted to go to India to seal a trade deal (which never happened either because he cancelled his trip in the end).
SB
Almost as if it was intentional all along
0
Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 16:49 - Jun 10 with 1995 views
Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 16:38 - Jun 10 by StokieBlue
I don't think I've mentioned Pakistan in any of my posts regarding C19.
The other points have mainly been covered in the other thread, you are welcome to read them there if you can be bothered (it's a long thread so I wouldn't blame you if you didn't).
There are certainly valid issues which you have raised with prolonging lockdown (although we aren't locked down much at the moment) and nobody is asking for months, just a data driven approach to opening up rather than arbitrary date set by a PM who continually makes poor decisions.
SB
I must have you confused with someone else, apologies if so.
To be honest if I see a large thread these days I just ignore it as it will generally be pointless trying to contribute.
Have you ever seen a group of women on a night out, if you observe them you will see that they all take it in turns to speak, all in order one by one and then repeat to fade. The thing is, none of them ever listens to what the other one is saying, they just wait for their turn to start talking again and are oblivious to what has been said and even if they heard they would just ignore it.
That is my TWTD long thread analogy.
“Hello, I'm your MP. Actually I'm not. I'm your candidate. Gosh.”
Boris Johnson canvassing in Henley, 2005.
Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 16:36 - Jun 10 by JammyDodgerrr
Or it's a failure of the government for not setting up a sufficient and convincing reason for people to self-isolate. It has been pointed out time and time again throughout the last 15 months that people in more deprived areas(where we keep seeing issues!) cannot afford to self isolate because the sick pay is so low and then you have employers who force people to come in with it.
They have not done enough to to help out those, in those areas.
Or you have people who are self employed (I wanted to put self centred too) who will be claiming from the government in grants etc for being affected by covid but then still working to make money too.
And also the multigenerational “community families” where it spreads within those communities because they don’t follow the rules
Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 15:55 - Jun 10 by StokieBlue
Well it is possible to keep the vast majority out as per Australia but you are right it's impossible to keep it out forever.
That doesn't mean the government shouldn't have taken action much earlier and reduced the risk by having people quarantine in a hotel.
As it stands, an elderly person could have come back from India and been told to quarantine at home, however they might be living in a multi-generational home which isn't impossible and then the others in the house may become infected but be out and about anyway. That scenario would be impossible if India was red listed when it should have been.
Minimising the risks is key and the government have repeatedly failed to act in order to minimise the risks with regards to travel and variants.
SB
[Post edited 10 Jun 2021 17:17]
Australia's about to get hit hard, and without a strong vaccine rollout they are vulnerable.
He added that the strain is currently spreading at a rate never seen before.
The Acting Premier said: "In the last day, we've seen more evidence we're dealing with a highly infectious strain of the virus, a variant of concern, which is running faster than we have ever recorded.
"We have identified in excess of 10,000 primary and secondary contacts who will need to either quarantine, or test and isolate, and that number will continue to grow and change.
"Our public health experts' primary concern is how fast this variant is moving.
Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 16:54 - Jun 10 by hype313
Australia's about to get hit hard, and without a strong vaccine rollout they are vulnerable.
He added that the strain is currently spreading at a rate never seen before.
The Acting Premier said: "In the last day, we've seen more evidence we're dealing with a highly infectious strain of the virus, a variant of concern, which is running faster than we have ever recorded.
"We have identified in excess of 10,000 primary and secondary contacts who will need to either quarantine, or test and isolate, and that number will continue to grow and change.
"Our public health experts' primary concern is how fast this variant is moving.
Indeed, initially the decisions to essentially lock down a continent worked but unless you back it up with an exit strategy (a fast and robust vaccination plan) then it's possible you've just kicked the problem down the road when a highly infectious variant manages to get through or when you open up.
It was more an example that you could keep it out initially but in reality Lucan is right, it's impossible to keep out something like C19 longer-term. That doesn't mean that the risks shouldn't be minimised.
SB
[Post edited 10 Jun 2021 16:57]
1
Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 16:57 - Jun 10 with 1929 views
Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 16:31 - Jun 10 by StokieBlue
Disagree.
The opportunity wouldn't have arisen for anyone to "flout the rules" if the government had been firmer on the travel restrictions rather than trying to push through a Boris trade mission to India which didn't happen in the end anyway.
SB
Given that there are rules for amber countries around testing before travel return and at days 2 and 8 (which in theory would have identified people) and these have to be given to the authorities before travel then I would say it’s easy to flout the rules.
You seriously think those returning from India would have followed the red guidelines when flying back into Manchester airport?
Delta variant now 91% of cases in the UK on 16:49 - Jun 10 by Lord_Lucan
I must have you confused with someone else, apologies if so.
To be honest if I see a large thread these days I just ignore it as it will generally be pointless trying to contribute.
Have you ever seen a group of women on a night out, if you observe them you will see that they all take it in turns to speak, all in order one by one and then repeat to fade. The thing is, none of them ever listens to what the other one is saying, they just wait for their turn to start talking again and are oblivious to what has been said and even if they heard they would just ignore it.
That is my TWTD long thread analogy.
About 90% of your posts are just moaning these days, Lucan. You used to be fun, now it's mainly just crochety and weeping like a teased vagina. What's got into you, man?!
Dear old footers KC - Private Counsel to Big Farmer - Liberator of Vichy TWTD
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