| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… 11:25 - Jun 19 with 1628 views | unstableblue |
I found England’s performance last night akin to Ipswich under the Marcus reign managers!
Definitely lacked enough energy and fight (Mick did achieve this at the start of his tenure).
But technically and tactically we fell really short, and looked devoid of ideas. And resorted to sideways and backwards passing.
Yes in terms of players technical capabilities in terms of basic skills you can see how England players have leaped forward, control and passing, and some technical elements of moving into space after passing a ball to give a return option.
BUT I look at performances from lowly teams such as Slovakia and Denmark and I am seeing much better technical and tactical set-up, thinking and reading of the game. Transitions, moving as one, stretching shape.
Clearly our pressing, overloads and second ball - hunting in packs - was also sub optimal
If you then step up to Italy or Belgium or France and their technical and tactical pedigree we look miles miles off.
Is this to do with Rice and Philips??? De Bruyne, Kante et al are another level in terms of orchestrating play.
But for me I look at Italy… the way they are moving as a team, options between the lines is off the scale at the moment… are they coached to be technically and tactically more astute??
Yes the England players have picked up so much from their foreign colleagues in the Premier League, but have they picked up some of the inherent reading of the game and is Southgate anywhere near a Klopp or a Guradiola!!? Not even close.
I think we need to think about what make England different… firstly we need much more energy, we need to be much quicker, we need to stretch… we need a system to feed Foden and Sterling/Sancho in dangerous areas and we need to flood forward…. The disconnect between rice/Philips and the front 4 was ridiculous last night and that’s a tactical blunder and a technical failing of the players to fix it
Very down on our chances now… and even now in 2021 why do Slovakia and Denmark still look better with and without the ball??? |  |
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| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 11:33 - Jun 19 with 1387 views | Pendejo |
For me there's the sheer frustration of not "going for it" sometimes, just take a gamble.
There were times when players, especially wide, were attacking in equal numbers and then stop and play a backward or sideways ball allowing opposition to regroup. Some of the passing was woeful....
As many have said, was like watching Ipswich at times... Surely currently the worst accusation that can be levelled at the National team? |  |
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| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 11:38 - Jun 19 with 1377 views | pointofblue |
| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 11:33 - Jun 19 by Pendejo |
For me there's the sheer frustration of not "going for it" sometimes, just take a gamble.
There were times when players, especially wide, were attacking in equal numbers and then stop and play a backward or sideways ball allowing opposition to regroup. Some of the passing was woeful....
As many have said, was like watching Ipswich at times... Surely currently the worst accusation that can be levelled at the National team? |
I think part of the issue for the wide players, especially Shaw and Foden on the left, is they would go forward, look up, and no one was there for them so they had to go back. The number of times Scotland had about seven players in their defensive penalty areas and we had one or two in comparison.
Our set pieces were dreadful too. |  |
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| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 11:47 - Jun 19 with 1339 views | chicoazul |
Oh Christ. |  |
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| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 11:49 - Jun 19 with 1338 views | The_Last_Baron |
England's weakness is midfield. Bang average. The top trams in the tournament all have midfielders who can create stuff at will and are top operators. If Grealish is England's best hope it will end in failure.
One of France, Italy or Portugal will win the tournament, France have so many good players and an excellent coach who is tactically strong. England had a bang average coach who is a safety first yes man and players who excel at club level because most of their team mates are French, Belgian, Dutch, Portuguese or Spanish.
Look at Lewandowski...not quite the hot shot for Poland when he plays against decent sides compared to hat-tricks galore for Bayern Munich with Muller creating space for him with his movement. |  |
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| “Going for it”…. on 11:51 - Jun 19 with 1333 views | unstableblue |
| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 11:33 - Jun 19 by Pendejo |
For me there's the sheer frustration of not "going for it" sometimes, just take a gamble.
There were times when players, especially wide, were attacking in equal numbers and then stop and play a backward or sideways ball allowing opposition to regroup. Some of the passing was woeful....
As many have said, was like watching Ipswich at times... Surely currently the worst accusation that can be levelled at the National team? |
… was evident last night massively…. An example being it was Scotland and you’d have Foden or a full back raiding forward and they’d have 1 or maybe 2 players ahead of them and no one rushing forward to break the lines
But it’s 2021… we need that energy to go for it… but you need a tactical/technical ‘play’… so Philips sits Rice BOMBS forward… break with a plan… it all just looked patched together… no guiding mind
Denmark first half against Belgium… there was a real identity | |
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| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 11:53 - Jun 19 with 1324 views | unstableblue |
| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 11:49 - Jun 19 by The_Last_Baron |
England's weakness is midfield. Bang average. The top trams in the tournament all have midfielders who can create stuff at will and are top operators. If Grealish is England's best hope it will end in failure.
One of France, Italy or Portugal will win the tournament, France have so many good players and an excellent coach who is tactically strong. England had a bang average coach who is a safety first yes man and players who excel at club level because most of their team mates are French, Belgian, Dutch, Portuguese or Spanish.
Look at Lewandowski...not quite the hot shot for Poland when he plays against decent sides compared to hat-tricks galore for Bayern Munich with Muller creating space for him with his movement. |
Southgate versus Deschamps… it’s a tactical mismatch isn’t it?!
I think Rice is great…. But he’s working in a more coherent system at frickin West Ham!! | |
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| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 11:55 - Jun 19 with 1319 views | chrismakin |
I just dont think Southgate was worried about not winning last night. There were times the camera would pan to him and he was telling us to slow down.. how could we get any slower!
Fair play if it goes how he wants and I guess we will see going forwards but there was something unusual about last night |  |
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| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 11:58 - Jun 19 with 1304 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
Suspect teams also set up differently against Denmark and Slovakia.
It's one match, let's move on. |  |
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| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 11:59 - Jun 19 with 1299 views | pointofblue |
| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 11:55 - Jun 19 by chrismakin |
I just dont think Southgate was worried about not winning last night. There were times the camera would pan to him and he was telling us to slow down.. how could we get any slower!
Fair play if it goes how he wants and I guess we will see going forwards but there was something unusual about last night |
I agree, I think Southgate was happy with the point. If not he would have surely taken off one of Rice or Phillips, brought Sancho on and possibly not subbed Kane. | |
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| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 12:01 - Jun 19 with 1291 views | Ftnfwest |
Correct and it’s always been correct. We are so slow in general at moving the ball round that there’s no threat. You have to move the ball quickly and confidently to pull packed defences around a bit. But with last night it was also the occasion, conditions a bit and facing a limited game plan which relied largely on effort that frustrated us as well. But to be honest a comfortable win over Scotland wouldn’t have made this team any better as far as likelihood to win the tournament is concerned. If anything it should give them a kick up the backside, and the fans a bit of a reality check. |  | | |
| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 12:23 - Jun 19 with 1234 views | billlm |
If we had pep or simeone klopp or Mancini,they would get far more out of this squad, southgates an ok to good manager, that won't win tournaments, |  | | |
| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 12:30 - Jun 19 with 1210 views | unstableblue |
| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 12:23 - Jun 19 by billlm |
If we had pep or simeone klopp or Mancini,they would get far more out of this squad, southgates an ok to good manager, that won't win tournaments, |
I think the interesting thing is that teams like France and Belgium have the players to win the tournament with more minimal tactical/technical direction….
Whereas England still need to be a ‘sum of their parts’ team…
Give me Bielsa any day
Still it’s not over… Scotland were very energetic and passionate we may not get that intensity - but we will get the technical players!! | |
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| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 12:35 - Jun 19 with 1191 views | billlm |
| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 12:30 - Jun 19 by unstableblue |
I think the interesting thing is that teams like France and Belgium have the players to win the tournament with more minimal tactical/technical direction….
Whereas England still need to be a ‘sum of their parts’ team…
Give me Bielsa any day
Still it’s not over… Scotland were very energetic and passionate we may not get that intensity - but we will get the technical players!! |
Bielsa is a good shout, atm what's hurting us is Kane isn't doing it for whatever reason,I may be wrong but short term last night he should of took Kane off not foden and pushed sterling in the middle, more movement and pace, | | | |
| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 12:38 - Jun 19 with 1180 views | chrismakin |
Still think we have the same problem we have had for years
A handful of world class players who play club football with world class players from other countries.
As a team we have holes of where these sorts of world class players would be in club teams.. I.e Kante. | |
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| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 12:47 - Jun 19 with 1148 views | unstableblue |
| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 12:35 - Jun 19 by billlm |
Bielsa is a good shout, atm what's hurting us is Kane isn't doing it for whatever reason,I may be wrong but short term last night he should of took Kane off not foden and pushed sterling in the middle, more movement and pace, |
The teams shape is not moving players away from Kane to give him shape and he’s getting no supply
Spurs stretch and break very fast… we’re miles off | |
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| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 12:56 - Jun 19 with 1123 views | ZXBlue |
| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 12:47 - Jun 19 by unstableblue |
The teams shape is not moving players away from Kane to give him shape and he’s getting no supply
Spurs stretch and break very fast… we’re miles off |
Its at least partly about midfield stodge. 2 defensive midfielders and no real creativity in the middle at all. So players receive the ball and then go sideways and backwards. Partly about instructions and training too. Neither full back got forward last night, no overlaps. | | | |
| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 12:59 - Jun 19 with 1107 views | stonojnr |
did you hear Southgates post match interview on ITV ? it was very McCarthy like with the if you cant win a game dont lose it approach, so he actually was saying he played for a draw at one point in the game. | | | |
| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 13:03 - Jun 19 with 1071 views | ZXBlue |
| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 12:59 - Jun 19 by stonojnr |
did you hear Southgates post match interview on ITV ? it was very McCarthy like with the if you cant win a game dont lose it approach, so he actually was saying he played for a draw at one point in the game. |
Against Scotland. Who, whilst better than they were, have not a single player who would make the England squad. | | | |
| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 13:07 - Jun 19 with 1050 views | N2_Blue |
Can't agree technically. Technically England players are fine and have an abundance of talent available.
I mean not beating Scotland was nothing to do with technical ability or talent...there is no comparison but they still easily managed to achieve a comfortable draw.
Tactically we are miles behind though... |  |
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| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 13:08 - Jun 19 with 1052 views | Mullet |
I love how being so wrong about Mick still causes you lot to post stuff like this. Darkly comedic.
Italy look brilliant but you clearly haven’t been paying attention to them til now. Which is understandable but fairly typical of this sort of faux analysis. |  |
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| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 13:09 - Jun 19 with 1043 views | Mullet |
| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 13:03 - Jun 19 by ZXBlue |
Against Scotland. Who, whilst better than they were, have not a single player who would make the England squad. |
Robertson definitely would | |
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| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 13:25 - Jun 19 with 999 views | ZXBlue |
| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 13:09 - Jun 19 by Mullet |
Robertson definitely would |
Fair. Was thinking he was a RB (in which case he wouldnt) but you are right.
Only one though. | | | |
| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 13:55 - Jun 19 with 960 views | unstableblue |
| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 13:08 - Jun 19 by Mullet |
I love how being so wrong about Mick still causes you lot to post stuff like this. Darkly comedic.
Italy look brilliant but you clearly haven’t been paying attention to them til now. Which is understandable but fairly typical of this sort of faux analysis. |
What is comedic in return is your obsessive and totally biased love for him. It’s relentless. First my post actually calls out Mick as the only manager who instilled a work ethic and energy in the club. Did you miss that?
Secondly, as I have always stated and as all the recent output, including Alan Lee, was that he was great for our stability in what was a sh!t house of a club. Most telling is just how bad these CEOs were around him, so what he did was miraculous. Also as I’ve posted many times Mick was great with players, in the Sunderland documentary and ex player waxed lyrical about his man Management.
He’s also done really well at Cardiff, BUT, and it’s a big BUT, I’ve been on their message boards and I’d say a third of fans if not higher are not happy with the style and approach. Also much of the selection. Go and have a look.
Now let’s dial it back to his last 2 or 3 seasons here... he wasn’t underfunded he chose not to pursue players as didn’t want to unbalance squad. Then we went very negative and insular in our system, droves of fans started to get turned off by the style. It was dreadful. Skouglas, sitting deep on 1-0s. By the end 80% of fans, EIGHTY PERCENT, wanted him gone. Why do you forget this? Why does it not compute. Everyone knew it was his time to go, the terraces were poisonous, we didn’t score for months.
Just because the incompetent Evans put in even more sh!t doesn’t mean Mick was right for this club.
You are darkly comedic Mullet. | |
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| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 13:56 - Jun 19 with 952 views | unstableblue |
| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 12:59 - Jun 19 by stonojnr |
did you hear Southgates post match interview on ITV ? it was very McCarthy like with the if you cant win a game dont lose it approach, so he actually was saying he played for a draw at one point in the game. |
Don’t mention McCarthy, Mullet will be on you. | |
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| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 14:31 - Jun 19 with 898 views | unstableblue |
| England lack depth in technical/tactical… Slovakia, Denmark… on 13:07 - Jun 19 by N2_Blue |
Can't agree technically. Technically England players are fine and have an abundance of talent available.
I mean not beating Scotland was nothing to do with technical ability or talent...there is no comparison but they still easily managed to achieve a comfortable draw.
Tactically we are miles behind though... |
I agree in part.
I get abused for using the technical term, but it’s essential in thinking about players, teams and games.
Tactical is all about the set up of the team, the system and formation and increasingly the play book. You can see now when subs come on they’re being shown the play book. When to overload, press, when to break the lines and shape. Movement to stretch players.
Southgate feels weak on the above, Bielsa a master.
As for technical I think is about player ability and player training - ‘a technical player’ - but there are two parts to it - 1) control, passing, shooting, dead ball delivery; 2) implementation of the tactical plan, movement, running off the ball, keeping the shape
I agree completely England players have transformed on point 1!!!! Our players now look so comfortable on the ball, Foden, rice, mount… it’s a transformation.
I’m not sure about the latter (2)…. A lot of our players are surrounded by foreign players in the premier league who are the real deal, so the thinking is done for them.
A Bielsa instills 2 with brilliant technical training…. Do you know he marks out there training pitch at Leeds into squares… and the technical drills I still into lesser players exact transitions and movement. Unbelievable.
Time for Southgate to earn his corn and get a system that works for our team. The good news is I’m not sure even the best teams will match the intensity of Scotland.
And this emphasises the point… you need to be technical to deliver the tactical, but the most important thing is the energy and the press and that has to be a given, and that plus speed of play used to be the English difference.
Here endeth the lesson. [Post edited 19 Jun 2021 14:40]
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