| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... 19:57 - Aug 16 with 5699 views | BlueBadger |
...so it's cards on the table time. Let's get them all out RIGHT NOW in a health y fashion that won't at all devolve into a massive argument.
What are your own personal, favourite hot take* on ITFC?
I'm going to lead off with :
1. If Mick McCarthy had bought Donacien, Nolan and Nsiala, you'd have recognised how rubbish they are ages ago
2. If we carry on not wining games does that mean that our appalling form last season wasn't actually the players' fault?
3. Lambert did more damage than Hurst did, it's just that everyone blames Evans.
Using this definition of 'hot take' here:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hot%20take
'a quickly produced, strongly worded, and often deliberately provocative or sensational opinion or reaction (as in response to current news)' [Post edited 16 Aug 2021 20:01]
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| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 20:11 - Aug 16 with 3156 views | jayessess |
1. Do many people rate those 3 very highly?
2. Maybe? To fail with one group of players is unfortunate, to fail with two almost certainly incompetence!
3. Agreed.
I'll give you my own hot take.
4. There's no actual solid evidence to back the cliches that "managers need time" or "teams have to gel". |  |
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| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 20:12 - Aug 16 with 3151 views | Darth_Koont |
People with hot takes are generally @rseholes.
If that’s my own hot take, I’m prepared to make that sacrifice. |  |
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| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 20:16 - Aug 16 with 3133 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
1. Mick McCarthy will still be used as a reason to divide the fan base when no one is alive who actually saw his teams play.
2. If we carry on not winning games there will rapidly be more Cook outers than Cook idolisers - that's football.
3 Keane did more damage than Lambert and Hurst put together. If McCarthy had come in when Keane did we would have got back to the Premier League. The ignominious drop to League 1 is actually less damaging than the perpetual failure to reach the Premier League.
And then I'll add:
4 If Sheepshanks had not backed Burley in the Premier League, although we would not have gone into administration, we would have still got relegated and would probably still be here.
5 If Mowbray had been appointed when Burley left we would have got back into the Premier League under him.
6 Donacien, Nolan and Nsiala are all proven decent League 1 players. It matters nothing who signed them. Fine for this level but they won't get a club promoted from the Championship. |  |
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| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 20:20 - Aug 16 with 3107 views | BlueBadger |
| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 20:16 - Aug 16 by Nthsuffolkblue |
1. Mick McCarthy will still be used as a reason to divide the fan base when no one is alive who actually saw his teams play.
2. If we carry on not winning games there will rapidly be more Cook outers than Cook idolisers - that's football.
3 Keane did more damage than Lambert and Hurst put together. If McCarthy had come in when Keane did we would have got back to the Premier League. The ignominious drop to League 1 is actually less damaging than the perpetual failure to reach the Premier League.
And then I'll add:
4 If Sheepshanks had not backed Burley in the Premier League, although we would not have gone into administration, we would have still got relegated and would probably still be here.
5 If Mowbray had been appointed when Burley left we would have got back into the Premier League under him.
6 Donacien, Nolan and Nsiala are all proven decent League 1 players. It matters nothing who signed them. Fine for this level but they won't get a club promoted from the Championship. |
3 is a Legit Shout. [Post edited 16 Aug 2021 20:24]
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| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 20:22 - Aug 16 with 3080 views | jayessess |
| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 20:16 - Aug 16 by Nthsuffolkblue |
1. Mick McCarthy will still be used as a reason to divide the fan base when no one is alive who actually saw his teams play.
2. If we carry on not winning games there will rapidly be more Cook outers than Cook idolisers - that's football.
3 Keane did more damage than Lambert and Hurst put together. If McCarthy had come in when Keane did we would have got back to the Premier League. The ignominious drop to League 1 is actually less damaging than the perpetual failure to reach the Premier League.
And then I'll add:
4 If Sheepshanks had not backed Burley in the Premier League, although we would not have gone into administration, we would have still got relegated and would probably still be here.
5 If Mowbray had been appointed when Burley left we would have got back into the Premier League under him.
6 Donacien, Nolan and Nsiala are all proven decent League 1 players. It matters nothing who signed them. Fine for this level but they won't get a club promoted from the Championship. |
5. But Joe Royle was such fun | |
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| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 20:25 - Aug 16 with 3051 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 20:22 - Aug 16 by jayessess |
5. But Joe Royle was such fun |
Agree but I think Mowbray would have been successful and continued to play football the Burley way as well. Which is more fun? Watching us beat Crewe 6-4 or watching Stewart score the winner at Anfield in a 1-0? | |
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| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 20:26 - Aug 16 with 3044 views | pointofblue |
7. Both Magilton and McCarthy left at the right time - indeed they probably outstayed their welcome. The issue wasn't their departure but who we hired to replace them.
8. Hurst would have done better for us if we had a proper structure in place. |  |
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| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 20:40 - Aug 16 with 2969 views | Keaneish |
This is my personal fave given that 14 of last season’s squad are now playing football at a lower league level or can’t even find clubs and in comparison we’ve got more players from the Championship than moved on there…
“ It wasn't necessary to rip apart the whole team, it was a decision and direction decided upon, and the first few steps have seen us in the gutter…”
Remember all, we’re in the “gutter” right now.
Either that or the new delusion KVY is no longer our best RB. |  |
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| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 20:45 - Aug 16 with 2939 views | Chrisd |
I really find it bizarre how some think PC is a hopeless manager, look at his managerial track record. Suddenly, after managing a few games last season with players that weren’t his own, that had downed tools he is deemed a poor manager. Judge him on this season and most certainly give him the first 10 league games with his own players. I appreciate it’s all about opinions, but is PC a better manager than PH? Yes. Is PC a better manager than PL? Yes. Has PC got better quality throughout his squad than recent seasons at Town? Yes. When he does turn it round, then I just hope those that have doubted his managerial credentials will do the decent thing and put their hands up and say they got it wrong, instead of looking for any negative results or performances to justify their flimsy argument. If I get it wrong and PC isn’t able to work the oracle, I’ll hold my hands up and admit you called it right!
On the note of ME, what recent months have shown for all his financial help in keeping us afloat each season he’d pretty much let the club deteriorate and we were in a hole. I’m thankful he’s found owners that want to drive the club forwards otherwise, I could see us slipping another few places towards L2 this season. We just weren’t going in the right direction under ME, you could see he seemed content in letting things drift and that’s a frightening thought. [Post edited 16 Aug 2021 20:50]
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| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 20:47 - Aug 16 with 2913 views | jayessess |
| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 20:26 - Aug 16 by pointofblue |
7. Both Magilton and McCarthy left at the right time - indeed they probably outstayed their welcome. The issue wasn't their departure but who we hired to replace them.
8. Hurst would have done better for us if we had a proper structure in place. |
Ooh, this is a spicy one! | |
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| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 20:50 - Aug 16 with 2896 views | chrismakin |
1 - None of them are rubbish for this level, 1st choice, maybe not, but worth a squad place
2 - No, the fitness levels and the realisation of players that none would stay due to takeover regardless of promotion I believe no one would have taken us up. If this season doesn't go to plan however, It will be down to PC as he is the manager who has overseen the summer and games coming and should be judged accordingly on that basis, not last season
3 - Hurst let 42 goals go and replaced it with no one. |  |
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| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 20:53 - Aug 16 with 2875 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 20:45 - Aug 16 by Chrisd |
I really find it bizarre how some think PC is a hopeless manager, look at his managerial track record. Suddenly, after managing a few games last season with players that weren’t his own, that had downed tools he is deemed a poor manager. Judge him on this season and most certainly give him the first 10 league games with his own players. I appreciate it’s all about opinions, but is PC a better manager than PH? Yes. Is PC a better manager than PL? Yes. Has PC got better quality throughout his squad than recent seasons at Town? Yes. When he does turn it round, then I just hope those that have doubted his managerial credentials will do the decent thing and put their hands up and say they got it wrong, instead of looking for any negative results or performances to justify their flimsy argument. If I get it wrong and PC isn’t able to work the oracle, I’ll hold my hands up and admit you called it right!
On the note of ME, what recent months have shown for all his financial help in keeping us afloat each season he’d pretty much let the club deteriorate and we were in a hole. I’m thankful he’s found owners that want to drive the club forwards otherwise, I could see us slipping another few places towards L2 this season. We just weren’t going in the right direction under ME, you could see he seemed content in letting things drift and that’s a frightening thought. [Post edited 16 Aug 2021 20:50]
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I think the argument is that a really good manager would have not allowed a situation where the players downed tools. They had turned things around in the brief spell under Gill and were in a great position to at least push for the play-offs. Whatever happened, Cook was unable to get the best out of them.
What matters now is whether Cook can get the best out of the players he now has. However, his failure last season casts that slight question mark over his man management under certain circumstances.
Of course this has to be balanced against his effective man management at previous clubs. Plenty of very good managers have shifted players out of their clubs in very public and forceful ways (although I can't think of it done on this scale anywhere before). | |
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| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 20:53 - Aug 16 with 2870 views | BlueBadger |
| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 20:26 - Aug 16 by pointofblue |
7. Both Magilton and McCarthy left at the right time - indeed they probably outstayed their welcome. The issue wasn't their departure but who we hired to replace them.
8. Hurst would have done better for us if we had a proper structure in place. |
I don't agree, but NICE. | |
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| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 20:54 - Aug 16 with 2863 views | wkj |
Hot Take: The usual suspects did all they could to bully Lambert and Evans out of the club after following them around taking potshots on the forums. |  |
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| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 20:55 - Aug 16 with 2847 views | MattinLondon |
| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 20:50 - Aug 16 by chrismakin |
1 - None of them are rubbish for this level, 1st choice, maybe not, but worth a squad place
2 - No, the fitness levels and the realisation of players that none would stay due to takeover regardless of promotion I believe no one would have taken us up. If this season doesn't go to plan however, It will be down to PC as he is the manager who has overseen the summer and games coming and should be judged accordingly on that basis, not last season
3 - Hurst let 42 goals go and replaced it with no one. |
As much as a distasteful that Hurst was, it’s unfair to blame him for Waghorn and McGoldrick leaving. Both wanted to leave and do he didn’t let them go - the real failure, as you mentioned was the recruitment which replaced them. |  | | |
| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 20:59 - Aug 16 with 2800 views | BlueBadger |
| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 20:54 - Aug 16 by wkj |
Hot Take: The usual suspects did all they could to bully Lambert and Evans out of the club after following them around taking potshots on the forums. |
Oh, Garv. | |
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| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 21:01 - Aug 16 with 2790 views | Chrisd |
| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 20:53 - Aug 16 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I think the argument is that a really good manager would have not allowed a situation where the players downed tools. They had turned things around in the brief spell under Gill and were in a great position to at least push for the play-offs. Whatever happened, Cook was unable to get the best out of them.
What matters now is whether Cook can get the best out of the players he now has. However, his failure last season casts that slight question mark over his man management under certain circumstances.
Of course this has to be balanced against his effective man management at previous clubs. Plenty of very good managers have shifted players out of their clubs in very public and forceful ways (although I can't think of it done on this scale anywhere before). |
I see what your saying, but he’s got the best out of players for promotions with a number of different clubs and also did a great job with Wigan in the Championship and were only relegated due to their reckless and callous owners. I do like how we lay all the blame at PC’s door, but when do we question those players attitudes? Let’s not forget, those same players had been consistently poor and flattered to deceive for near on 3 seasons with Town and look where the majority have ended up this season? It didn’t help with the constant we’ve got one of the best squads in the league narrative, where in reality we really didn’t. That’s why I’m not judging him on last season, but I am expecting promotion this campaign whether that is top 2 or through the play offs. Disappointing start yes, but the cream always rises to the top. Let’s hope that’s us!! [Post edited 16 Aug 2021 21:06]
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| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 21:04 - Aug 16 with 2771 views | pointofblue |
| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 21:01 - Aug 16 by Chrisd |
I see what your saying, but he’s got the best out of players for promotions with a number of different clubs and also did a great job with Wigan in the Championship and were only relegated due to their reckless and callous owners. I do like how we lay all the blame at PC’s door, but when do we question those players attitudes? Let’s not forget, those same players had been consistently poor and flattered to deceive for near on 3 seasons with Town and look where the majority have ended up this season? It didn’t help with the constant we’ve got one of the best squads in the league narrative, where in reality we really didn’t. That’s why I’m not judging him on last season, but I am expecting promotion this campaign whether that is top 2 or through the play offs. Disappointing start yes, but the cream always rises to the top. Let’s hope that’s us!! [Post edited 16 Aug 2021 21:06]
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When are the players attitudes questioned? Constantly. It goes without saying on here that last year's collapse is nearly completely down to the players and had barely anything to do with Cook. | |
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| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 21:04 - Aug 16 with 2773 views | BlueBadger |
| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 20:22 - Aug 16 by jayessess |
5. But Joe Royle was such fun |
Ina similar vein, I'd like to add 'Burley WOULD have taken us back up again. Sheepshanks lost his nerve because he knew that books were BAD'. | |
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| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 21:08 - Aug 16 with 2745 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 21:01 - Aug 16 by Chrisd |
I see what your saying, but he’s got the best out of players for promotions with a number of different clubs and also did a great job with Wigan in the Championship and were only relegated due to their reckless and callous owners. I do like how we lay all the blame at PC’s door, but when do we question those players attitudes? Let’s not forget, those same players had been consistently poor and flattered to deceive for near on 3 seasons with Town and look where the majority have ended up this season? It didn’t help with the constant we’ve got one of the best squads in the league narrative, where in reality we really didn’t. That’s why I’m not judging him on last season, but I am expecting promotion this campaign whether that is top 2 or through the play offs. Disappointing start yes, but the cream always rises to the top. Let’s hope that’s us!! [Post edited 16 Aug 2021 21:06]
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I love the "cream always rises to the top" quote partly because it was exactly what Mogga said the night Burley got sacked.
However, I would add to it, "as long as you don't keep shaking it up!" | |
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| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 21:13 - Aug 16 with 2716 views | clive_baker |
Less my 'hot take' to be honest, and just playing devils advocate with more of a contrarian one because I'm bored, but has Cook been given too much of a free pass from Town fans? When he joined the club almost 6 months ago we were sat in 7th place with 16 games left. We were just 2 points off Pompey in 5th, and we had a game in hand. Furthermore, according to many, we also had an 'easier' run in. We had averaged 1.67 points per game from our 30 games pre Cook, yet managed just 1.19 with him. Rather, had we continued to average the relatively unspectacular PPG we had for the first 30 games, we would've finished 6th. So many on here seemed to view Cook's 16 games last season as a 'free hit', which surprised me then and does now. I really would've expected to see a reaction, a bounce, and a proper stab at getting into the playoffs, but we only saw an early acceptance of failure and a regression from an already very low base.
The general consensus throughout the season was that the squad was strong, and Lambert had under achieved with them. If that was true of Lambert, why wasn't it true of Cook. Almost overnight, and a 'too unfit to train' later, the party line shifted to that of the players were dog sh1t, and Cook was the messiah. Now that's no defence of Lambert by any stretch, the bloke was a disaster. But if it was true of Lambert, why didn't we see the improvement we would've expected?
Since, Cook has resided over pulling the squad apart because they were crap, yet we've seen 4 move on to Championship clubs, a further 5 that finished the season here find homes at fellow League 1 sides, and 5 or 6 have represented us again in our 2 league games this season. A touch surprising of 14/15 players that weren't good enough?
Still, at least the football is better... |  |
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| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 21:21 - Aug 16 with 2653 views | Moriarty |
| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 20:25 - Aug 16 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Agree but I think Mowbray would have been successful and continued to play football the Burley way as well. Which is more fun? Watching us beat Crewe 6-4 or watching Stewart score the winner at Anfield in a 1-0? |
Not so much a hot take but that Stewie goal is, and always will be, one of my favourite ever Town goals. A true craftsman at work.
Probably not a hot take either but was ME’s biggest mistake not reappointing GB instead of RK? |  |
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| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 21:57 - Aug 16 with 2535 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
Who is Mick McCarthy? |  |
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| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 21:59 - Aug 16 with 2524 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 21:13 - Aug 16 by clive_baker |
Less my 'hot take' to be honest, and just playing devils advocate with more of a contrarian one because I'm bored, but has Cook been given too much of a free pass from Town fans? When he joined the club almost 6 months ago we were sat in 7th place with 16 games left. We were just 2 points off Pompey in 5th, and we had a game in hand. Furthermore, according to many, we also had an 'easier' run in. We had averaged 1.67 points per game from our 30 games pre Cook, yet managed just 1.19 with him. Rather, had we continued to average the relatively unspectacular PPG we had for the first 30 games, we would've finished 6th. So many on here seemed to view Cook's 16 games last season as a 'free hit', which surprised me then and does now. I really would've expected to see a reaction, a bounce, and a proper stab at getting into the playoffs, but we only saw an early acceptance of failure and a regression from an already very low base.
The general consensus throughout the season was that the squad was strong, and Lambert had under achieved with them. If that was true of Lambert, why wasn't it true of Cook. Almost overnight, and a 'too unfit to train' later, the party line shifted to that of the players were dog sh1t, and Cook was the messiah. Now that's no defence of Lambert by any stretch, the bloke was a disaster. But if it was true of Lambert, why didn't we see the improvement we would've expected?
Since, Cook has resided over pulling the squad apart because they were crap, yet we've seen 4 move on to Championship clubs, a further 5 that finished the season here find homes at fellow League 1 sides, and 5 or 6 have represented us again in our 2 league games this season. A touch surprising of 14/15 players that weren't good enough?
Still, at least the football is better... |
Good post. | |
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| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 22:01 - Aug 16 with 2510 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| This place has been infested with people's hot takes this last week or so... on 20:50 - Aug 16 by chrismakin |
1 - None of them are rubbish for this level, 1st choice, maybe not, but worth a squad place
2 - No, the fitness levels and the realisation of players that none would stay due to takeover regardless of promotion I believe no one would have taken us up. If this season doesn't go to plan however, It will be down to PC as he is the manager who has overseen the summer and games coming and should be judged accordingly on that basis, not last season
3 - Hurst let 42 goals go and replaced it with no one. |
No2 seems a bit of a leap of faith.
We're fitness levels really so bad?
People knowing they would be cleared out was solely down to PC and the way he chose to handle it. | |
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