| Ozil retires because of racism 21:26 - Jul 22 with 6281 views | Mullet |
A lot of German fans expressing quite a lot of remorse and disgust at this. But it also reminded me of what Lukaku said which suggests there's an interesting, albeit nasty current in European football fans' mentalities still.
I know there was a popular meme going around about the England team and showing the lineup "without immigration" was about 5 players. I didn't think too much of it though, is it an attitude which fluctuates but never really goes away in England or are there people who see our lads as not really English because they're not called Bobby and George anymore?
Certainly, I don't think you could top the positivity or optimism this tournament just threw up in this country.
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| on 21:28 - Jul 22 with 4337 views | _ |
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| Ozil retires because of racism on 21:31 - Jul 22 with 4305 views | JakeITFC |
There is a deep undercurrent of racism in English football, but this didn’t go down too well the other day on here so I won’t dig that up.
That being said, I think the Özil thing is more disharmony with immigration in general in Germany as opposed to a football specific thing. |  | | |
| Ozil retires because of racism on 21:33 - Jul 22 with 4265 views | Superblue95 |
Ozil obviously isn't Polish enough to play for Germany |  |
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| Ozil retires because of racism on 21:34 - Jul 22 with 4273 views | Tendring_Blue |
Things are heating up in continental Europe all over the place. We have our issues, big ones but I think the world cup showed how well we have done in integrating new communities, compared to our European counterparts.
It's unfortunate but you could see this coming from a mile off. [Post edited 22 Jul 2018 21:35]
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| Ozil retires because of racism on 21:34 - Jul 22 by Tendring_Blue |
Things are heating up in continental Europe all over the place. We have our issues, big ones but I think the world cup showed how well we have done in integrating new communities, compared to our European counterparts.
It's unfortunate but you could see this coming from a mile off. [Post edited 22 Jul 2018 21:35]
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| Ozil retires because of racism on 21:37 - Jul 22 with 4197 views | itfcjoe |
German, with Turkish heritage |  |
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| Ozil retires because of racism on 21:39 - Jul 22 with 4181 views | Tendring_Blue |
| Ozil retires because of racism on 21:31 - Jul 22 by JakeITFC |
There is a deep undercurrent of racism in English football, but this didn’t go down too well the other day on here so I won’t dig that up.
That being said, I think the Özil thing is more disharmony with immigration in general in Germany as opposed to a football specific thing. |
Your correct about English football but even in my time, I've noticed it slowly ebb away.
There are massive political issues to do with immigration all over Europe at the moment. I can only see it getting worse sadly before solutions are found. | | | |
| Ozil retires because of racism on 21:41 - Jul 22 with 4148 views | Mullet |
| Ozil retires because of racism on 21:31 - Jul 22 by JakeITFC |
There is a deep undercurrent of racism in English football, but this didn’t go down too well the other day on here so I won’t dig that up.
That being said, I think the Özil thing is more disharmony with immigration in general in Germany as opposed to a football specific thing. |
Would you say "deep undercurrent" or just predictable stupidity and laziness from fans when convenient?
I've never really heard Peep Show type levels of racism like the episode with Darrell the BNP fella talking about Henry etc. Seems more like collective moronism after a few beers and a few old duffers prattling on in public spheres.
Online I think twitter shows a real issue, but is that societal racism or naturally selected virgins trying to get a reaction? The partisan nature of football makes me think people push those buttons a lot quicker thinking they can hide behind excuses a lot easier. | |
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| Ozil retires because of racism on 21:44 - Jul 22 with 4124 views | Tendring_Blue |
Didn't see that but it wouldn't surprise me, Nydam is surely one? And he considers himself English I think in the interview I read. My great grandfather was czech we're all an interesting mix. | | | |
| Ozil retires because of racism on 21:46 - Jul 22 with 4111 views | Ftnfwest |
Most of Wales young players are English but this won’t show up in the same way because of course it’s the same nationality |  | | |
| Ozil retires because of racism on 21:51 - Jul 22 with 4059 views | JakeITFC |
| Ozil retires because of racism on 21:41 - Jul 22 by Mullet |
Would you say "deep undercurrent" or just predictable stupidity and laziness from fans when convenient?
I've never really heard Peep Show type levels of racism like the episode with Darrell the BNP fella talking about Henry etc. Seems more like collective moronism after a few beers and a few old duffers prattling on in public spheres.
Online I think twitter shows a real issue, but is that societal racism or naturally selected virgins trying to get a reaction? The partisan nature of football makes me think people push those buttons a lot quicker thinking they can hide behind excuses a lot easier. |
I think institutional racism still exists in the game (with the lack of black coaches being the main example of this), but it’s not as overt as it once was.
I think it exists in the media, for example in the treatment of Raheem Sterling.
I think it exists on the terraces to a varying extent - I guess this is the closest reflection of society and so is probably an unfair thing to tar just football fans with.
I’ll put it this way - I don’t think (in some quarters) we’d be a million miles away from a similar reaction to this German side had England been knocked out early in Russia. | | | |
| Ozil retires because of racism on 21:57 - Jul 22 with 4011 views | Ftnfwest |
According to these articles it’s his treatment by the German FA rather than fans that has caused him to stop playing for Germany. As to why he’s stopped playing for Arsenal I’m not sure. | | | |
| Ozil retires because of racism on 22:06 - Jul 22 with 3920 views | Mullet |
| Ozil retires because of racism on 21:51 - Jul 22 by JakeITFC |
I think institutional racism still exists in the game (with the lack of black coaches being the main example of this), but it’s not as overt as it once was.
I think it exists in the media, for example in the treatment of Raheem Sterling.
I think it exists on the terraces to a varying extent - I guess this is the closest reflection of society and so is probably an unfair thing to tar just football fans with.
I’ll put it this way - I don’t think (in some quarters) we’d be a million miles away from a similar reaction to this German side had England been knocked out early in Russia. |
Is that institutional racism or the legacy of it? Not that I wish to split hairs but when clubs are faced with candidates such as Sol Campbell or John Barnes, what do they do. I'm also conscious we've just had Terry Connor here for six years and seen individuals like Hughton or Chris Coleman lauded and have relative success, is that a deciding factor in perception here?
After all, the narrative suggests racism is dependent on failure I suppose? Which your last paragraph alludes to.
I totally agree with the terraces, but the media treatment of Raheem sort of undoes or underlines that. It's essentially the Daily Mail and similar hate rags appealing to the terminally thick and ignorant isn't it? They got a hell of a lot of pushback from all quarters on that too. | |
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| Ozil retires because of racism on 22:11 - Jul 22 with 3883 views | m14_blue |
Much as I deplore anyone making the decision to take the stage with Erdogan, I think it's obvious that it's been used by some particularly unsavory elements in German society to stir up resentment of immigrants.
The rise of anti immigration feeling across the continent (and here) is a terribly worrying development. | | | |
| Ozil retires because of racism on 22:23 - Jul 22 with 3786 views | DiceMan |
A c**t |  |
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| Ozil retires because of racism on 22:33 - Jul 22 with 3720 views | Freddies_Ears |
Yes. Ozil explained that it was about his parents and their parents, and his heritage, and nothing about dissing Germany. That I understand. He was maybe naive to think that being pictured with a pretty right-wing, nationalist and pro-Islam / anti-secluarism Turkish president would pass without comment. But I'll accept his explanation, ie forgive his naivety or political innocence.
The bombshell is that he accuses the head of the DFB (equivalent of FA) of having a racist attitude towards him. That rings true btw. Ozil's written statement is quite challenging.
We are not immune in England either, but Germany is currently worse. I never thought I'd feel sorry for Ozil, but, heck, I do now. | | | |
| Ozil retires because of racism on 22:54 - Jul 22 with 3623 views | DiceMan |
| Ozil retires because of racism on 22:33 - Jul 22 by Freddies_Ears |
Yes. Ozil explained that it was about his parents and their parents, and his heritage, and nothing about dissing Germany. That I understand. He was maybe naive to think that being pictured with a pretty right-wing, nationalist and pro-Islam / anti-secluarism Turkish president would pass without comment. But I'll accept his explanation, ie forgive his naivety or political innocence.
The bombshell is that he accuses the head of the DFB (equivalent of FA) of having a racist attitude towards him. That rings true btw. Ozil's written statement is quite challenging.
We are not immune in England either, but Germany is currently worse. I never thought I'd feel sorry for Ozil, but, heck, I do now. |
He's 29 years old, so I don't believe he's that naive
However, the treatment from the German FA is unacceptable | |
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| Ozil retires because of racism on 22:56 - Jul 22 with 3622 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
I must say my take on the England meme was that it was meant as a positive message.
I.e. look what a positive impact immigrants had on the England team and where would we be without them. |  |
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| Ozil retires because of racism on 22:54 - Jul 22 by DiceMan |
He's 29 years old, so I don't believe he's that naive
However, the treatment from the German FA is unacceptable |
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| Ozil retires because of racism on 23:58 - Jul 22 with 3443 views | StokieBlue |
| Ozil retires because of racism on 21:37 - Jul 22 by itfcjoe |
German, with Turkish heritage |
Ah, that makes it ok then.....
SB |  |
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| Ozil retires because of racism on 03:13 - Jul 23 with 3295 views | connorscontract |
| Ozil retires because of racism on 21:31 - Jul 22 by JakeITFC |
There is a deep undercurrent of racism in English football, but this didn’t go down too well the other day on here so I won’t dig that up.
That being said, I think the Özil thing is more disharmony with immigration in general in Germany as opposed to a football specific thing. |
Never be afraid to dig it up, expose it or call it out.
Ipswich lives in racial harmony used to be the motto of our most hardcore fans, when the NF were trying to take over the terraces elsewhere, and John Barnes was having bananas thrown at him.
I'm proud to be an Ipswich fan, and even prouder that our fans kicked out racism before it was a brand. | | | |
| Ozil retires because of racism on 07:33 - Jul 23 with 3121 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Ozil retires because of racism on 03:13 - Jul 23 by connorscontract |
Never be afraid to dig it up, expose it or call it out.
Ipswich lives in racial harmony used to be the motto of our most hardcore fans, when the NF were trying to take over the terraces elsewhere, and John Barnes was having bananas thrown at him.
I'm proud to be an Ipswich fan, and even prouder that our fans kicked out racism before it was a brand. |
Can you explain this in a little more detail please? I'm a bit clueless about this perhaps due to age. Were we chanting thing to this effect? Were we positive towards opposing players with different ethnicity? And what do you mean by taking over the terraces? [Post edited 23 Jul 2018 7:52]
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| Ozil retires because of racism on 09:33 - Jul 23 with 2992 views | hype313 |
I feel for him. The racist overtones in the press are awful, it’s unfair that his performances at the World Cup are seen through dual nationality. However, I can’t feel for him losing partners. Standing tall with authoritarianism was an ignorant move. Whether he was badly advised, or he just didn’t think it through, when you align with a tyrant, you’ve opened yourself up to criticism. Erdogan is a monster, he is savaging Turkish institutions that protect democracy and regardless of where your heritage sits, to be seen as normalizing that with a photo opp is beyond stupid. |  |
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| Ozil retires because of racism on 09:43 - Jul 23 with 2965 views | soupytwist |
| Ozil retires because of racism on 07:33 - Jul 23 by Kropotkin123 |
Can you explain this in a little more detail please? I'm a bit clueless about this perhaps due to age. Were we chanting thing to this effect? Were we positive towards opposing players with different ethnicity? And what do you mean by taking over the terraces? [Post edited 23 Jul 2018 7:52]
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I'll leave the detail to those who were there but it's been posted about on here before that in the 70s the North Stand and other parts of the ground were a lot more racially mixed than many other grounds at the time, reflecting the town in general.
"Ipswich lives in racial harmony" was apparently sung on the terraces, especially when away supporters were being racist towards players, or if anything like that was started by our own fans.
It's well documented that far right groups sought to gain support among football fans in the 70s/80s, it didn't really catch on in Ipswich.
The generally positive treatment of black American service personnel during and after WW2 by people in Suffolk is part of the same thread. Factual posted in detail about it once if I remember rightly. |  | | |
| Ozil retires because of racism on 09:49 - Jul 23 with 2954 views | Swansea_Blue |
Good on him. Just because he's of Middle Earth heritage doesn't give people the right to give him stick for it.
It's not really racism though is it - it's all about the rising tide of nationalism and xenophobia, than strictly racism. Made easier by ridiculously lax qualifying rules from FIFA which allows people to practically pick and choose their 'nationality'. Not that I'm condoning moronic behaviour by numbskulls who thinks it's ok to abuse players. [Post edited 23 Jul 2018 9:51]
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