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“A global survey of attitudes towards science has revealed the scale of the crisis of confidence in vaccines in Europe, showing that only 59% of people in western Europe and 50% in the east think vaccines are safe, compared with 79% worldwide.”
79% is bad enough but only 59% in Europe (less in Eastern Europe) is truly shocking. Conversely 95% of people in South Asia think vaccines are safe and effective.
It’s also interesting to see the difference between places where diseases run rife and cause misery and the rich Western nations which have benefitted from the longer term effects of vacinations and no longer see the impact of these diseases.
Out of sight, out of mind:
“In developing countries, where deadly diseases like diphtheria, measles or whooping cough are more common, I’ve seen mothers queue for hours to make sure their child is vaccinated,” said Seth Berkley, the chief executive of Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance. “It is in wealthier countries, where we no longer see the terrible impact these preventable diseases can have, that people are more reticent. This reticence is a luxury we can ill afford.”
He’s hit the nail on the head there.
SB
Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula
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Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 12:00 - Jun 19 with 3871 views
Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 11:23 - Jun 19 by BlueBadger
Peer review and Cohrane meta-analysis. You question hypothesis, methodology and findings and attempt to repeat results. You look at the body of evidence as a whole.
The scientific community isn't, by and large, the problem here. The problem is a media largely staffed by humanities graduates who lack sufficient understanding of how to interpret and evaluate results and a public who are rely on these outlets as primary sources of information.
[Post edited 19 Jun 2019 11:25]
Agreed but John Ioannidis looked at reproducibility I think in 2005 and found problems within his own field, is this a natural phenomenon in science or something more? The Lancet to be fair is not staffed by humanities graduates but your general point about the vacuous media is certainly driving a lot of this.
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Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 12:02 - Jun 19 with 3863 views
Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 11:53 - Jun 19 by VillageGreen
Their fault for not appreciating what we worked our tails off to give them.
How many alts do you have Footers!?
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 11:13 - Jun 19 by lowhouseblue
we also need a kite mark system for quality journalism and websites. people need help in assessing sources. like hygiene scores on restaurant doors.
It's a good idea, but it would inevitably result in more sources on one side of politics getting lower scores for honesty/quality, and I suspect resulting in people on that side of the debate dismissing the system as biased.
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Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 12:43 - Jun 19 with 3824 views
Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 12:38 - Jun 19 by Clapham_Junction
It's a good idea, but it would inevitably result in more sources on one side of politics getting lower scores for honesty/quality, and I suspect resulting in people on that side of the debate dismissing the system as biased.
it would have to be properly independent and restricted to just claims of fact which can't be substantiated. you can't get into refereeing opinions. less would probably be more.
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 12:46 - Jun 19 with 3818 views
All those tossers going to university with nothing better to do than piss about with a computer and cause trouble while the humble land workers are called racists.
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Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 13:22 - Jun 19 with 3792 views
Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 12:02 - Jun 19 by SpruceMoose
How many alts do you have Footers!?
Just seen this you absolute wum. This is my only account. Besides, been far too busy at the old word mill for forum chicanery.
My two pence worth is we should have some kind of forum dunce's hat for those who cannot substantiate claims or have form when it comes to dangerous ideas, like Lee Martin being a left-back.
footers KC - Prosecution Barrister - Friend to all
Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 12:46 - Jun 19 by VillageGreen
I saw this coming
All those tossers going to university with nothing better to do than piss about with a computer and cause trouble while the humble land workers are called racists.
I would try to visually present how narrow minded you are but it would not be discernible to the human eye
Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 11:41 - Jun 19 by SpruceMoose
Kids? This isn't about kids. Why is it mostly old people who spread and share stupid fake news on sites like Facebook? Most kids are far more internet savvy than your average 55 to 85 year old.
Bored of you blaming young people for the stuff old duffers have ruined all the time.
If you actually looked at what I wrote I wasn't blaming kids I was saying we educate kids now that the internet is the sole source but as normal you're intolerant blinked in your views and if you can attack you do.
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Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 13:36 - Jun 19 with 3781 views
Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 10:48 - Jun 19 by Steve_M
It needs education and, in particular, the teaching of critical thinking and the ability to evaluate sources properly. It won't be a rapid process but I'm not sure there's any other solution.
[Post edited 19 Jun 2019 11:13]
A report out this week that stated there is a very large number of children leaving primary school who cannot adequately read or write.
From friends of the family who are involved in education the mess is extensive
The problems in education have to be addressed with some urgency
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Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 14:04 - Jun 19 with 3766 views
Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 13:34 - Jun 19 by BloomBlue
If you actually looked at what I wrote I wasn't blaming kids I was saying we educate kids now that the internet is the sole source but as normal you're intolerant blinked in your views and if you can attack you do.
Well if that was your point then it is equally stupid as it just isn't true.
Stick to what you know mate. Werthers Originals, day time TV, dinner at 4pm and bed by 7pm.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
They say things are done for the majority don't believe half of what you see and none of what you hear It's like what my painter friend Donald said to me "Stick a fork in their ass and turn them over, they're done"
Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 13:36 - Jun 19 by No9
A report out this week that stated there is a very large number of children leaving primary school who cannot adequately read or write.
From friends of the family who are involved in education the mess is extensive
The problems in education have to be addressed with some urgency
That's horrible if true but I would say parents need to take some responsibility here. There is no excuse for any child to leave primary school not being able to read, write or count.
Parents can't blame everything on the school, those things can be learned at home.
None of that means education isn't a mess (although it depends a lot on the school) but personal responsibility can't be ignored.
SB
Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula
0
Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 14:24 - Jun 19 with 3733 views
Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 14:12 - Jun 19 by StokieBlue
That's horrible if true but I would say parents need to take some responsibility here. There is no excuse for any child to leave primary school not being able to read, write or count.
Parents can't blame everything on the school, those things can be learned at home.
None of that means education isn't a mess (although it depends a lot on the school) but personal responsibility can't be ignored.
SB
Parents should take much more responsibility for their offspring than they do, From sending the to school not potty trained, to not getting involved when some organisations take over with questionable intentions.
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Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 14:34 - Jun 19 with 3725 views
Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 14:34 - Jun 19 by BloomBlue
Apology accepted
Lol good one pops. You genuinely think the internet is the sole source of teaching material in schools?
I've said it before, but you can so easily be dismissed as clueless on so many subjects.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 11:25 - Jun 19 by lowhouseblue
there is also an innate psychological desire to believe conspiracies. they are away of protecting your world view even when the evidence is against it, of explaining away uncomfortable stuff, there is membership of a group of true believers, and it gives the person status cos they know secret stuff. in the end lots of people just want to believe conspiracies.
and the false flag narrative is the most evil rhetorical device yet invented - it's just away to shamelessly ignore all evidence.
There is also psychology at work with antivaxxers. It is easier to accept concequences of inaction than action. It is easier to cope with 'just being unlucky' with ill effects of a disease/ illness than ill effects of deliberately getting a vaccine.
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Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 15:59 - Jun 19 with 3685 views
Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 11:19 - Jun 19 by BloomBlue
It's because too many people believe everything on the internet is real.
Find a link to something and people automatically assume it's real.
You see it on this site, somebody will state something and others will counter argue unless you can send a link to a website it's not fact.
We educate kids with the internet and people now take it as the sole source of it being real, 'it's in wikipedia so it has to be correct'.
That's why people find it so much easier to con people using the internet.
And yet you happily dismissed evidence from the BMJ yesterday regarding austerity related deaths because it didn't fit your agenda. I know it's most likely that you're a troll but on the off chance you aren't, you're part of the problem.
Sorry SB to reply to your OP, but not really sure where it fits in this thread, though it is relevant, honest! Remember the Whirlpool tumble dryer recall scandal - probably the cause of Grenfell, but not proven yet I believe - anyway, there were instances of many people phoning Whirlpool while they were waiting for replacement/repair and being assured that their dryers were safe (despite the urgency of the recall notice) - so they kept on using them, some did catch fire, and in some cases burnt down houses. The example that hit me was this (I think it was on the BBC news site): A couple had been constantly chasing Whirlpool for action, they had been waiting nearly a year (I think), still using their dryer - not long before engineer was due, they put a larger than normal load in the dryer and one LEFT THE HOUSE FOR A FEW HOURS WHILE THE OTHER WAS IN THE BATH only to smell smoke and suddenly have their house burnt down. Now, they might not have been able to easily afford a new tumble dryer, but if that had been me, and the engineer hadn't fixed/replaced within a month - I'd stop using the dryer, save up for a new one, and certainly not leave it unattended if it was running! So, in conclusion, regardless of the legalities of culpability, etc, what rhetorical questions does this incident pose?
1. Can we trust so-called experts who assure us their product is safe? If you'd suffered this, would you trust them? 2. Or wpuld you have been sceptical and not used the dryer and got it replaced?
Very simple example but which illustrates it's not just critical thinking that's important, but practical understanding of the world and all the stuff that that goes on in it. I've met an awful lot of people who are clever, but have no understanding of potential consequences of actions - that sort of stuff is hard to think about, and as life becomes easier, we expect things to be easy, and not have to make tough decisions. I think things like AutoSergei should be banned, because it takes away the need to think - say what you want, press a button and out comes the answer.
I'm not a Luddite fogey, I've worked in engineering and software tech nearly all my life and I can see over that period of time how generations have become in some ways more insular, in other way more raging against the iniquities of the world which they can't, but believe they should be able to, control.
I sound like a bloody TED talk but I'm sure I could develop it into a play! :-)
Recommended reading: The Caves of Steel and The Naked Sun, both by Isaac Asimov
Just one small problem; sell their houses to who, Ben? Fcking Aquaman?
Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 11:04 - Jun 19 by StokieBlue
This was essentially the basis of an argument on here the other day. Some people said there was basically no evidence they would accept because everything could be faked (it was on a different subject).
I guess the only way to really know is if you watch the video, to then go and examine the base source material yourself (ie. the published study the video is based on). Realistically though the vast majority of people aren't going to do that so it's a massive problem.
SB
Come off it, if it's the thread I think you mean it was nothing like you are suggesting. I raised it as a parallel point.....fake news!
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
How can 59% of Western Europeans think vaccines are safe, but France has the highest level of distrust with 33% disagreeing that vaccines are safe. That means 67% of French people believe they are safe which is above the average for Western Europe?
Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 11:14 - Jun 19 by StokieBlue
You've obviously not been here long - there are a group on here who think everything is a false flag as well based on exactly the reasoning you provided.
Flawed thinking but any attempt to show that is met with more iterations of the same flawed nonsense.
SB
Some people on here think that all people in favour of leaving the EU have a deep love for blue passports! Fake news is everywhere!
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 13:28 - Jun 19 by footers
Just seen this you absolute wum. This is my only account. Besides, been far too busy at the old word mill for forum chicanery.
My two pence worth is we should have some kind of forum dunce's hat for those who cannot substantiate claims or have form when it comes to dangerous ideas, like Lee Martin being a left-back.
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