| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... 07:25 - Jun 22 with 10645 views | Libero |
Should we engage or ignore?
Interesting experiences shared and points made in this article from the BBC website this morning that reflects various things I’ve seen on TWTD in recent weeks.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-53000622 [Post edited 22 Jun 2020 7:36]
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| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 15:39 - Jun 22 with 2132 views | Darth_Koont |
| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 15:13 - Jun 22 by lowhouseblue |
challenge through discussion rather than labelling sounds good. trying to corral people into pre-defined camps - and camps that are intended to be derogatory - is one of the reasons online discussion goes bad. |
But people have the opportunity to respond and explain their views. They're also not children. If you're not a racist but you've got views that overlap with racists then you surely know the onus is on you to justify them.
Instead it seems we've given people carte blanche for soft racism because it's about not offending them and not infringing their sacred right to an opinion.
And it seems that politicians and the media have largely encouraged this false victimhood to get their vote. It's actually quite sickening to see how much we've bent over as a country to flatter and appease wounded white men — all in the name of electioneering. |  |
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| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 15:50 - Jun 22 with 2104 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 07:42 - Jun 22 by 26_Paz |
Genuinely racist post need calling out. I do think this board, perhaps more accurately certain individuals that frequent this board, need to be careful about throwing accusations of racism around willy nilly. Apparently the OP in the thread yesterday had a more than suspect posting history, fine call him, grouping others who have agreed with some of his other posts goes a bit far. Just my thoughts. |
I think those who are accused of being racist and genuinely don't think the word is applicable to them should take the time to look over their posts and assess why other people could take their content as racist.
Rather than finding fault in others perception, making your own points clearer or making contributions in new threads that don't build upon proven racists would certainly aid those who feel they fall victim to unjust accusations.
The other thing to consider is just because someone doesn't believe they are racist, it doesn't mean that they aren't. Again, a period of self-reflection and taking the time to understand criticisms of viewpoints that have been labelled as racist would certainly be a great place to start, rather than getting into full blown arguments. |  |
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| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 15:55 - Jun 22 with 2082 views | BlueBadger |
| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 15:50 - Jun 22 by Kropotkin123 |
I think those who are accused of being racist and genuinely don't think the word is applicable to them should take the time to look over their posts and assess why other people could take their content as racist.
Rather than finding fault in others perception, making your own points clearer or making contributions in new threads that don't build upon proven racists would certainly aid those who feel they fall victim to unjust accusations.
The other thing to consider is just because someone doesn't believe they are racist, it doesn't mean that they aren't. Again, a period of self-reflection and taking the time to understand criticisms of viewpoints that have been labelled as racist would certainly be a great place to start, rather than getting into full blown arguments. |
Not gonna lie, I work in a multi-cultural environment and drop the odd boll0ck, it happens. What you do if you've offended someone is 1) apologise and 2) ask them to explain it, so you know WHY you've offended and don't do similar again not go 'well that's never happened to me, therefore it can't be real'.
For example. |  |
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| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 16:16 - Jun 22 with 2053 views | Libero |
| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 15:50 - Jun 22 by Kropotkin123 |
I think those who are accused of being racist and genuinely don't think the word is applicable to them should take the time to look over their posts and assess why other people could take their content as racist.
Rather than finding fault in others perception, making your own points clearer or making contributions in new threads that don't build upon proven racists would certainly aid those who feel they fall victim to unjust accusations.
The other thing to consider is just because someone doesn't believe they are racist, it doesn't mean that they aren't. Again, a period of self-reflection and taking the time to understand criticisms of viewpoints that have been labelled as racist would certainly be a great place to start, rather than getting into full blown arguments. |
You’re spot on in theory,
however in my experience not many people are adept at looking inward and even less are capable of objectively looking at themselves, their actions and constructively criticising themselves in the hope of self improvement.
Which rather depressingly, leaves us at a stalemate, unless a mutual understanding can be made in discourse with someone that the individual shares a mutual respect with, similar to that which I mention earlier in the thread that I am fortunate enough to share with my in-laws. [Post edited 22 Jun 2020 16:21]
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| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 16:20 - Jun 22 with 2037 views | Herbivore |
| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 16:16 - Jun 22 by Libero |
You’re spot on in theory,
however in my experience not many people are adept at looking inward and even less are capable of objectively looking at themselves, their actions and constructively criticising themselves in the hope of self improvement.
Which rather depressingly, leaves us at a stalemate, unless a mutual understanding can be made in discourse with someone that the individual shares a mutual respect with, similar to that which I mention earlier in the thread that I am fortunate enough to share with my in-laws. [Post edited 22 Jun 2020 16:21]
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I'm able to step outside myself and reflect on how amazing I am. |  |
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| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 16:24 - Jun 22 with 2029 views | 26_Paz |
| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 15:10 - Jun 22 by BlueBadger |
LOL |
What is funny about that? |  |
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| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 16:31 - Jun 22 with 2003 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 16:16 - Jun 22 by Libero |
You’re spot on in theory,
however in my experience not many people are adept at looking inward and even less are capable of objectively looking at themselves, their actions and constructively criticising themselves in the hope of self improvement.
Which rather depressingly, leaves us at a stalemate, unless a mutual understanding can be made in discourse with someone that the individual shares a mutual respect with, similar to that which I mention earlier in the thread that I am fortunate enough to share with my in-laws. [Post edited 22 Jun 2020 16:21]
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It's kind of the point of putting it out there. If someone isn't prepared to take the time to look inward when there are accusations of racism, then they more than likely are, even if they don't intend or wish to be.
I think most people are more likely to read this thread and subsequently re-evaluate their contributions to yesterday's thread, as this is calmer and more civil.
In this thread people can read it and opt out of arguing, as they haven't put in the same emotional investment. They aren't being individually and publically challenged.
It's why I I tried so hard to not use "you" to 26P, as I wanted to use his post more as a conversation to all, rather than argument against them. [Post edited 22 Jun 2020 16:41]
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| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 16:36 - Jun 22 with 1991 views | 26_Paz |
| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 16:31 - Jun 22 by Kropotkin123 |
It's kind of the point of putting it out there. If someone isn't prepared to take the time to look inward when there are accusations of racism, then they more than likely are, even if they don't intend or wish to be.
I think most people are more likely to read this thread and subsequently re-evaluate their contributions to yesterday's thread, as this is calmer and more civil.
In this thread people can read it and opt out of arguing, as they haven't put in the same emotional investment. They aren't being individually and publically challenged.
It's why I I tried so hard to not use "you" to 26P, as I wanted to use his post more as a conversation to all, rather than argument against them. [Post edited 22 Jun 2020 16:41]
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I think most people could work out who you were talking about ... | |
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| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 16:37 - Jun 22 with 1988 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 16:36 - Jun 22 by 26_Paz |
I think most people could work out who you were talking about ... |
I'm talking to all, including yourself. | |
| Submit your 1-24 league prediction here -https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/514096/page:1 - for the opportunity to get a free Ipswich top. | | Poll: | Would you rather | | Blog: | Round Four: Eagle |
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| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 16:42 - Jun 22 with 1969 views | mrshallisfit |
| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 08:12 - Jun 22 by 26_Paz |
I’m not pretending I didn’t say or mean anything I’ve said, I’ve simply offered apologies if the way I said it offended anyone. When I disappear it’s because I’ve had enough of you lot! |
Dont feel obliged to come back any time soon. Like in the next 50 years or so. [Post edited 22 Jun 2020 16:43]
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| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 16:44 - Jun 22 with 1967 views | 26_Paz |
| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 16:42 - Jun 22 by mrshallisfit |
Dont feel obliged to come back any time soon. Like in the next 50 years or so. [Post edited 22 Jun 2020 16:43]
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I’m trying to stick by what we said yesterday but, honestly, what’s the point? In the last 2 posts you’ve insulted me and then said I should just leave the forum. Did we learn nothing? | |
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| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 17:01 - Jun 22 with 1920 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 15:55 - Jun 22 by BlueBadger |
Not gonna lie, I work in a multi-cultural environment and drop the odd boll0ck, it happens. What you do if you've offended someone is 1) apologise and 2) ask them to explain it, so you know WHY you've offended and don't do similar again not go 'well that's never happened to me, therefore it can't be real'.
For example. |
It is more about what is heard than what is said. It is how a comment is received that matters. Discussing this subject recently with a friend who gets uncomfortable when people take offence, on his behalf, when they feel a racist comment has been aimed in his direction.
He doesn’t like people telling him how he should react to others. Which is all a fair number of posters On here do. He is well educated and considers everyone his equal regardless of their standing in society.
Someone earlier in the thread said people are too tolerant when in fact most problems are caused by a lack of tolerance, not too much of it.
When you get to the bottom of it racism is just one facet of inequality. Inequality is the enemy. |  |
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| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 17:06 - Jun 22 with 1907 views | Ryorry |
| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 14:50 - Jun 22 by Kropotkin123 |
"I do think a distinction needs to be made between those who are unconsciously/subconsciously unintentionally racist; and those who are, probably know it, but don't care."
After reading through a lot of yesterdays posts, I feel there is another group that are aware they hold racist views and wish to disguise those viewpoints by posting statements that have the sole aim of discrediting or devaluing anti-racist content.
I feel that these people are dangerous if they are not challenged. Not everyone can pick up on it without others challenging it.
The OP of yesterday's thread in question chucked out the not so subtle "all lives matter" one. On the face of it, who can argue? All of us agree that all lives matter. But it's not the point of the BLM slogan.
Others are more subtle and I'm proud to see NB doubling down in this thread. [Post edited 22 Jun 2020 14:53]
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Yes, I see what you mean about the "third" group, and agree they should be challenged.
By NB do you mean Newcy Blue? If so, punching someone's lights out wouldn't be my first choice route, but then I'm a slim female! Can certainly understand how he feels tho, and would certainly want to do the same in his shoes. |  |
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| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 17:08 - Jun 22 with 1903 views | Libero |
| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 16:31 - Jun 22 by Kropotkin123 |
It's kind of the point of putting it out there. If someone isn't prepared to take the time to look inward when there are accusations of racism, then they more than likely are, even if they don't intend or wish to be.
I think most people are more likely to read this thread and subsequently re-evaluate their contributions to yesterday's thread, as this is calmer and more civil.
In this thread people can read it and opt out of arguing, as they haven't put in the same emotional investment. They aren't being individually and publically challenged.
It's why I I tried so hard to not use "you" to 26P, as I wanted to use his post more as a conversation to all, rather than argument against them. [Post edited 22 Jun 2020 16:41]
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Again, I’m in full agreement, you’re not wrong at all. | | | |
| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 18:07 - Jun 22 with 1831 views | jeera |
| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 08:19 - Jun 22 by Libero |
I think Joe makes a fair point, there are posters who only serve to undermine their own point by the manner in which it’s communicated. |
I think it's important to keep the onus where it belongs.
It's definitely not anyone else's responsibility to repeat the same thing over and again, tailor-made to each individual's particular needs.
A one size fits all approach is sometimes the only reasonable expectation.
This is right - that is wrong. Sure, the other approach is fine if you're dealing with children, but not grown-ups.
But then, as people are not born holding specific views, probably schools should do more. Most certainly some parents should. |  |
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| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 18:14 - Jun 22 with 1820 views | Libero |
| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 18:07 - Jun 22 by jeera |
I think it's important to keep the onus where it belongs.
It's definitely not anyone else's responsibility to repeat the same thing over and again, tailor-made to each individual's particular needs.
A one size fits all approach is sometimes the only reasonable expectation.
This is right - that is wrong. Sure, the other approach is fine if you're dealing with children, but not grown-ups.
But then, as people are not born holding specific views, probably schools should do more. Most certainly some parents should. |
It’s a fair retort and one that I agree with in principle but evidently doesn’t work in reality unfortunately. | | | |
| Food for thought after yesterday’s lengthy discussion... on 18:58 - Jun 22 with 1857 views | Ryorry |
For goodness sake, give the man a chance. He's certainly not going to listen if he's just continually abused and boxed into your pre-determined "phases" whatever he says is he? | |
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| Well this thread is going.... on 19:25 - Jun 22 with 1805 views | Bloots |
….the same way as all of the rest.
There's some total turds that use this forum now.
(takes one to know one, I guess) |  |
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| Well this thread is going.... on 19:32 - Jun 22 with 1780 views | Libero |
| Well this thread is going.... on 19:25 - Jun 22 by Bloots |
….the same way as all of the rest.
There's some total turds that use this forum now.
(takes one to know one, I guess) |
It’s a shame as there’s been plenty of sensible discussion and it’s been enjoyable. | | | |
| There's a handful of people who..... on 19:40 - Jun 22 with 1774 views | Bloots |
| Well this thread is going.... on 19:32 - Jun 22 by Libero |
It’s a shame as there’s been plenty of sensible discussion and it’s been enjoyable. |
…..take themselves far, far too seriously.
I can remember when Bully was the most pompous poster on here by a country mile, now he wouldn't get in the top 20.
The relentless repeating of the same old discussions, by the same old people is mind-numbingly dull.
When I look back at the things some historical (maybe hysterical) posters got banned for in the past, I'm amazed that certain posters are still here.
….if only I was in charge. | |
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| Well this thread is going.... on 20:13 - Jun 22 with 1693 views | PhilTWTD |
| Well this thread is going.... on 19:32 - Jun 22 by Libero |
It’s a shame as there’s been plenty of sensible discussion and it’s been enjoyable. |
Indeed it has. I've got rid of the rather pointless sniping at the end of it. |  | | |
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