| I hate seeing people risking their lives. 18:51 - Aug 10 with 4474 views | Shawsey |
Trying to just make a better life for themselves, but I don't know what the answer is. We can't just have an open border policy, can we? If we put restrictions in place, people will still risk their lives trying to get here. We have plenty of room to accommodate them, but don't see how we go about it. They need our help, but The Governments of European countries don't seem to have the answers either. Any ideas? |  | | |  |
| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 20:03 - Aug 10 with 1569 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 19:49 - Aug 10 by Swansea_Blue |
It's not an open border policy. Don't fall for the Farage-led bullsh*t narrative like a lot of the mainstream press are.
Scoop em up, treat them decently while their applications are processed, let those stay that are eligible.
The answers will be varied and complex, as the causes stem from multiple different situations (with a lot of emphasis on various middle eastern conflicts). But let's not get hysterical, remember that fewer are fleeing to the EU (and therefore us) than during the peak in 2015-16 and also realise that we take relatively few compared to the 'main' EU countries. Helping people in need also isn't a negative.
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Asylum_statistics#M |
This. It is not a choice between open door and deliberately allowing them to drown.
The right thing is to properly deal with asylum seekers.
There are much poorer countries than us that do thousands times more to help than we do and we should be utterly ashamed of that. To cap it all we are often one of the more complicit countries in bringing about or supporting the situations that many of them are fleeing from. |  |
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| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 20:10 - Aug 10 with 1551 views | gordon |
Also worth noting we've been here before...
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| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 20:10 - Aug 10 with 1547 views | Oldsmoker |
| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 19:55 - Aug 10 by Swansea_Blue |
Maybe there's an element of that, but also the pictures of people landing on our beaches is a huge propaganda opportunity to the xenophobes. And I suspect the government are still scared of Farage so are determined to play him at his own game and take up the same rhetoric around 'illegal' immigration (it's not) and 'invasions' and the like. So there's the staying in power element too, not just money. |
Then we both agree it's all politics and nothing to do with need or compassion.
A few hundred desperate people requires the Royal Navy to stop them whereas the HK lot are flown on jets to the UK.
I doubt if any of the boat people will engage in a crime wave but the people from HK didn't get wealthy by sticking to all the rules - some, but not all.
I shouldn't throw aspersions but I won't be surprised when ex-HK people get accused of fraud and corruption in the UK over the next 20 years. |  |
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| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 20:10 - Aug 10 with 1549 views | Swansea_Blue |
| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 20:03 - Aug 10 by Nthsuffolkblue |
This. It is not a choice between open door and deliberately allowing them to drown.
The right thing is to properly deal with asylum seekers.
There are much poorer countries than us that do thousands times more to help than we do and we should be utterly ashamed of that. To cap it all we are often one of the more complicit countries in bringing about or supporting the situations that many of them are fleeing from. |
It's so utterly depressing and showing us up to be a bunch of heartless a-holes, from the government right down to the people who cheer them.
Also depressing how quickly the government jumped on Farage's xenophobia again, and how the BBC and some of the press are lapping this up. |  |
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| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 20:17 - Aug 10 with 1524 views | m14_blue |
| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 20:02 - Aug 10 by Marshalls_Mullet |
No, I don't.
You asked if we take a disproportionately high number, I just gave a view on how that might be calculated. |
Fair enough.
I guess we probably take more than other countries at the extremities but less than many others closer to the hotspots. |  | | |
| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 20:29 - Aug 10 with 1510 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 20:17 - Aug 10 by m14_blue |
Fair enough.
I guess we probably take more than other countries at the extremities but less than many others closer to the hotspots. |
The table here, albeit from Wikipedia, may help. It does not show us in a good light although those countries closest to the displaced are unsurprisingly the ones that could argue they are being "swamped" if such a term were ever acceptable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_refugee_population | |
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| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 20:58 - Aug 10 with 1495 views | Guthrum |
This is one area where cutting and tampering with international aid budgets is a step backwards. It can help to support people in their own countries where they are afflicted by disasters and (should) provide leverage over repressive regimes. |  |
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| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 21:04 - Aug 10 with 1488 views | 26_Paz |
You’re not going to stop them coming, they will find a way, whether that’s in boats or lorries or whatever. The only way you will stop it is to stop them wanting to come. How you do that is the big question ... I don’t think putting them up in 4 star hotels is the answer ... |  |
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| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 21:12 - Aug 10 with 1481 views | EdwardStone |
| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 21:04 - Aug 10 by 26_Paz |
You’re not going to stop them coming, they will find a way, whether that’s in boats or lorries or whatever. The only way you will stop it is to stop them wanting to come. How you do that is the big question ... I don’t think putting them up in 4 star hotels is the answer ... |
The best solution is to improve their prospects in their home countries.....y'know, famine, war, economic crisis, climate change
I believe that a very significant factor in the problems in Syria are farmers moving into big cities because of repeated crop failure due to lack of rainfall.
Our government and others are absolutely complicit in creating the conditions that people want to flee from. Address that and you might begin to see a long term sustainable solution to this kind of migration |  | | |
| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 21:14 - Aug 10 with 1472 views | 26_Paz |
| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 21:12 - Aug 10 by EdwardStone |
The best solution is to improve their prospects in their home countries.....y'know, famine, war, economic crisis, climate change
I believe that a very significant factor in the problems in Syria are farmers moving into big cities because of repeated crop failure due to lack of rainfall.
Our government and others are absolutely complicit in creating the conditions that people want to flee from. Address that and you might begin to see a long term sustainable solution to this kind of migration |
Got to be a mix of foreign and domestic policy for sure | |
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| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 21:24 - Aug 10 with 1469 views | vilanovablue |
The numbers are in reality are very low this has nothing to do with us being "full". If you doubt me check out how many empty properties are out there we could resolve our own housing crisis. If someone has made that much effort to get here do you really think it's to claim benefits, ffs? |  | | |
| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 21:36 - Aug 10 with 1458 views | Plums |
Every one of these cases is a tragedy.
We need to help people in their own countries and stop shouting about how great the Empire is/was. Trevor Noah nails why we’re seen as the destination of choice for some:
https://dai.ly/x2tsu0h
Hundreds of years of nationalistic PR is hard to turn around, especially as some seem to be hell bent on repeating it. [Post edited 10 Aug 2020 21:37]
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| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 22:13 - Aug 10 with 1445 views | blueblueburleymcgrew |
The plight of these people is tragic, the desperation that must be driving them to take the risks they are especially with young families is so hard to comprehend.
Let’s be honest with ourselves it’s not because they have have been tipped off about our welfare state and the free NHS.
I don’t have the answers but I do think that what drives many of them to pass through countries like Greece, Italy and France to reach the U.K. is simply that they speak or have a basic understanding of English, if I had to take the difficult decisions they have to find a better life I would maximise my chances and I bet many if not most have a smattering of English but very little knowledge of Greek (for example).
We should help them it’s the human thing to do but what about all the legitimate applicants who have put their faith in the system who are seeking refuge legitimately and without certainty as to the end result for them? we run the risk of encouraging people to take chances with their life’s If we don’t look like we are pushing back somehow.
It’s such a difficult dynamic. |  | | |
| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 22:20 - Aug 10 with 1428 views | reusersfreekicks |
| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 19:02 - Aug 10 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Each country should play an equitable part, rather than funnel them through europe to the UK.
The OP said that 'we have the space', which I think is questionable in reality.
We should do our part in providing refuge for those in desperate need, but it needs to be a shared responsibility. |
Not sure Greece and Italy would agree we are doing our bit |  | | |
| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 03:55 - Aug 11 with 1385 views | BlueBadger |
| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 21:04 - Aug 10 by 26_Paz |
You’re not going to stop them coming, they will find a way, whether that’s in boats or lorries or whatever. The only way you will stop it is to stop them wanting to come. How you do that is the big question ... I don’t think putting them up in 4 star hotels is the answer ... |
Not voting for nationalist, xenophobic tosspots interested in playing to a gallery of braying thick would be a good start. |  |
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| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 04:03 - Aug 11 with 1386 views | jeera |
As others have pretty much pointed out:
The best way to stop 'them' coming here is to not destabilise 'their' countries in the first place.
Stop bombing the sh1t out of other people's homes. Stop supporting and funding those who bomb the sh1t out of other people's homes.
Take more responsibility on the world stage. Speak up for those who are being wronged a bit more even.
I should probably add something about not leaving coalitions whilst I'm at it. |  |
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| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 07:11 - Aug 11 with 1348 views | GlasgowBlue |
| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 04:03 - Aug 11 by jeera |
As others have pretty much pointed out:
The best way to stop 'them' coming here is to not destabilise 'their' countries in the first place.
Stop bombing the sh1t out of other people's homes. Stop supporting and funding those who bomb the sh1t out of other people's homes.
Take more responsibility on the world stage. Speak up for those who are being wronged a bit more even.
I should probably add something about not leaving coalitions whilst I'm at it. |
Although the current Syrian migrant crisis has nothing to do with “us” destabilising their own country in the first place, but is a direct consequence of our inability to take military action in 2014 when Assad, with the help of the Russians, was bombing the fcuk out of his own people.
As the late Jo Cox said at the time, there is such a thing as aN ethical military solution.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/11/british-forces-ethical-sol
Had the west adopted the Cox/ Mitchell plan at the time then there would be millions less people fleeting Syria, and we may have a government in that country that isn’t routinely murdering its so citizens.
Despite the U.K. having an obligation to take in refugees from a humanitarian standpoint, we have a moral obligation to take this particular group in because we let them down so badly when they needed our help to stop their countrymen being slaughtered. [Post edited 11 Aug 2020 8:17]
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| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 07:19 - Aug 11 with 1342 views | GlasgowBlue |
| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 20:10 - Aug 10 by Oldsmoker |
Then we both agree it's all politics and nothing to do with need or compassion.
A few hundred desperate people requires the Royal Navy to stop them whereas the HK lot are flown on jets to the UK.
I doubt if any of the boat people will engage in a crime wave but the people from HK didn't get wealthy by sticking to all the rules - some, but not all.
I shouldn't throw aspersions but I won't be surprised when ex-HK people get accused of fraud and corruption in the UK over the next 20 years. |
What are you framing this as an either or situation. We should take in many more Syrian refugees, whilst at the same time fulfilling our moral obligation to those who are experiencing oppression in Hong Kong”
Yiur two statements “ but the people from HK didn't get wealthy by sticking to all the rules” and “I won't be surprised when ex-HK people get accused of fraud and corruption in the UK over the next 20 years” is shameful racial stereotyping and the sort of demonisation that if applied to any other migrant group, would be roundly condemned on here. I’m staggered I’m the only person Challenging your choice of language on this thread. | |
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| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 08:08 - Aug 11 with 1325 views | pointofblue |
| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 07:11 - Aug 11 by GlasgowBlue |
Although the current Syrian migrant crisis has nothing to do with “us” destabilising their own country in the first place, but is a direct consequence of our inability to take military action in 2014 when Assad, with the help of the Russians, was bombing the fcuk out of his own people.
As the late Jo Cox said at the time, there is such a thing as aN ethical military solution.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/11/british-forces-ethical-sol
Had the west adopted the Cox/ Mitchell plan at the time then there would be millions less people fleeting Syria, and we may have a government in that country that isn’t routinely murdering its so citizens.
Despite the U.K. having an obligation to take in refugees from a humanitarian standpoint, we have a moral obligation to take this particular group in because we let them down so badly when they needed our help to stop their countrymen being slaughtered. [Post edited 11 Aug 2020 8:17]
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After the mess we left behind in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya I can understand why we didn’t want to get involved in another country, even if it might have been the right thing to do. | |
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| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 08:47 - Aug 11 with 1306 views | tractordownsouth |
My view would be to make a better effort to take people directly from camps, rather than leaving them to cross the channel in a dinghy. I think this was a policy which happened under David Cameron in 2015, but it needs to be stepped up. Ourselves, France and the US each have a responsibility to take more refugees, as do other wealthy countries. Both ourselves and the US arguably more so due to our previous foreign policy exploits.
The reaction to this whole episode has really brought out the worst in people. The same people who like to poverty shame others suddenly start to care about "helping our own" when the alternative is helping foreigners - I've seen lots of twitter posts saying we should drown them, pop their dinghies etc, when they were bleating "all lives matter" only last month. Likewise, the same folk who were defending Dominic Cummings for breaking the law to protect his family are furious about Syrians doing the same.
It baffles me that people genuinely think immigrants get put up in 5 star hotels or get free housing as soon as they arrive. The tabloids in this country are responsible for so much of the poison that comes out of peoples' mouths when discussing those far less fortunate than themselves. [Post edited 11 Aug 2020 8:51]
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| I hate seeing people risking their lives. on 10:07 - Aug 11 with 1267 views | ElephantintheRoom |
It would help if we didnt enthusiastically bomb their countries and meddle with regime changes.
They may be 'risking their lives' - but at least they ARE still alive.
Having a proper immigration policy in place would help as would listening to the results of the numerous enquiries instigated by a series of incompetent home secretaries
Finally an admission that this is all deliberate PR would help... a few hundred people turning up on beaches in warm weather is as nothing compared to the hundreds of thousands who turn up by legal means. Its primarily desinged to get you to tut tut over your corn flakes and vote Tory because they are 'strong on immigration'.... even though the polar opposite is true. | |
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