| Helluva statement from XR... on 12:04 - Sep 6 with 1947 views | monytowbray |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 11:41 - Sep 6 by hampstead_blue |
Both links are about as balanced as an elephant sat on a see-saw.
I can google, as can anyone, google and find a radial view to support almost anything. |
I didn’t have to Google it, I just, ya know, keep up to date with factual news and journalists who put themselves in harm’s way to report the truth.
You asked some questions, I provided you with XR’s official statement answering them and evidence via Murdoch’s own family as to the reason in XR’s actions.
If your response to reality is going to be to call out balance all hope is lost, seeing as you won’t be alone in these takes.
It amazes me people who have young family/friends or are young themselves are in such denial about the fact we could be living on a dying planet facing extinction within the next half a century. Identity politics has a lot to answer for. It’s the political equivalent of defending Lambert’s failings on the grounds that he works for your football team and nothing else.
You can change your mind in democracy and disagree with even parties you are a member of. That’s democracy. If we carry on as we are we won’t have a democracy left well before we kill the planet, which in turn will speed up the latter process. These politicians care about their rich fossil fuel burning rich mates, not you and I. [Post edited 6 Sep 2020 12:09]
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 12:16 - Sep 6 with 1916 views | J2BLUE |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 11:41 - Sep 6 by hampstead_blue |
Both links are about as balanced as an elephant sat on a see-saw.
I can google, as can anyone, google and find a radial view to support almost anything. |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 12:50 - Sep 6 with 1866 views | nodge_blue |
It is an attack on democracy.
And the Times is a "free" paper that reports news not propaganda.
The climate change debate is hugely important and without radical change we are heading for enormous problems.
As at 2017 the countries that produce the most CO2 are:
1. China 9.8 billion metric tonnes
2. USA 5.3 billion
3. India 2.5 billion
4. Russia 1.7 billion
5. Japan 1.2 billion
Uk was 0.3 billion. Behind countries like Indonesia, Iran and Mexico
So if ER are really serious about stopping extension, where do you think the most pressure needs to be applied? This isn't a game as you've acknowledged. But disrupting Uk society starts to feel more political than truly environmental and actually will achieve very little CO2 impact in the global scale.
ER would be better off going to China. [Post edited 6 Sep 2020 12:51]
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:01 - Sep 6 with 1850 views | Darth_Koont |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 12:50 - Sep 6 by nodge_blue |
It is an attack on democracy.
And the Times is a "free" paper that reports news not propaganda.
The climate change debate is hugely important and without radical change we are heading for enormous problems.
As at 2017 the countries that produce the most CO2 are:
1. China 9.8 billion metric tonnes
2. USA 5.3 billion
3. India 2.5 billion
4. Russia 1.7 billion
5. Japan 1.2 billion
Uk was 0.3 billion. Behind countries like Indonesia, Iran and Mexico
So if ER are really serious about stopping extension, where do you think the most pressure needs to be applied? This isn't a game as you've acknowledged. But disrupting Uk society starts to feel more political than truly environmental and actually will achieve very little CO2 impact in the global scale.
ER would be better off going to China. [Post edited 6 Sep 2020 12:51]
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It's production and consumption. And most of our impact is offshore.
The UK is also home to numerous multinationals and banks/financial services (in fact that's our economy to all intents and purposes) so we can't duck what's going on elsewhere.
The decisions we make as private individuals, companies and the governments we vote in have huge effects around the world.
So which side of history do we want to be on? |  |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:02 - Sep 6 with 1843 views | EdwardStone |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 11:26 - Sep 6 by hampstead_blue |
Greenham Common was something I recall well.
It was peaceful and didn't stop anything happening.
I think they cut fences but that was it.
They didn't stop people going about their business.
XR's protest at Murdoch is interesting.
What does Murdoch do to restrict getting the message of man-made climate change across?
Why exactly are they protesting him?
I can't get past the paywall on the Guardian piece so don't see the punchline. |
Morning Mr HB
I have no idea how much you recall about the Greenham Protests.....but I believe that they did a great deal more than cutting a few fences
A lasting legacy has been the return of 1300 acres of open land for recreational use, land that was requisitioned by the War Department in WW2 and was due to be given back after the war ended......however, the MoD had no intention whatsoever of handing back
We can never know how influential the protests were in the introduction of the INF Treaty that outlawed the deployment of Cruise missiles; we do know that the US forces were endlessly embarrassed by how easily their convoys were tracked and stopped....this may have been a significant factor in the US deciding against the continued deployment of these weapons systems
We will never know how many people felt inspired and empowered by seeing a protest movement succeed in its aims, ordinary people doing extraordinary things
I would venture that the protests at Greenham perhaps achieved a little more than just cutting a few fences and has been instrumental in continuing the vein of popular protest that we now see shaping popular opinion about the forthcoming Climate Collapse
I feel that it is less than fair, less than reasonable to diminish the Greenham protests |  | | |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:05 - Sep 6 with 1837 views | monytowbray |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 12:50 - Sep 6 by nodge_blue |
It is an attack on democracy.
And the Times is a "free" paper that reports news not propaganda.
The climate change debate is hugely important and without radical change we are heading for enormous problems.
As at 2017 the countries that produce the most CO2 are:
1. China 9.8 billion metric tonnes
2. USA 5.3 billion
3. India 2.5 billion
4. Russia 1.7 billion
5. Japan 1.2 billion
Uk was 0.3 billion. Behind countries like Indonesia, Iran and Mexico
So if ER are really serious about stopping extension, where do you think the most pressure needs to be applied? This isn't a game as you've acknowledged. But disrupting Uk society starts to feel more political than truly environmental and actually will achieve very little CO2 impact in the global scale.
ER would be better off going to China. [Post edited 6 Sep 2020 12:51]
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Who uses their factories, energy sources and buys their goods? The UK ain’t operating on it’s own oil and manufacturing... | |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:06 - Sep 6 with 1833 views | jaseitfc2015 |
If you want to win hearts & minds in the climate change debate then this move shouldn't be lauded , i mean it has actually managed to unify the government, Labour leadership , & even lib dems in condemning it. I dont see how stopping Maude in Rochdale, or Clive in Tonbridge Wells from receiving their saturday paper is going to achieve much?
What seems to be a constant failing of these groups , far left outfits in general is they put all the weight on the virtue & lose sight of the strategy, its precisely why tories win elections. Strategy is everything. [Post edited 6 Sep 2020 13:10]
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:07 - Sep 6 with 1831 views | nodge_blue |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:01 - Sep 6 by Darth_Koont |
It's production and consumption. And most of our impact is offshore.
The UK is also home to numerous multinationals and banks/financial services (in fact that's our economy to all intents and purposes) so we can't duck what's going on elsewhere.
The decisions we make as private individuals, companies and the governments we vote in have huge effects around the world.
So which side of history do we want to be on? |
Not sure what you mean by your first two sentences at all. You'd have to explain that to me in more detail.
Being home to banks is virtually nothing to do with global warming. It doesn't really contribute to Saudia Arabia pumping out twice our C02. Nor resulting in China burining all the coal it does. Not really. Its just vacuous words trying to justify something that isn't the problem.
The fact is unless the GB contribution is to global warming is very small. We can't not achieve any targets without the countries like China taking radical change. And stopping the newspapers being printed in the UK does not make one iota of difference.
There won't be a history to be on the side of unless change is made - but its not our country that can most dramatically affect it. [Post edited 6 Sep 2020 13:08]
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:08 - Sep 6 with 1826 views | Ryorry |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 12:50 - Sep 6 by nodge_blue |
It is an attack on democracy.
And the Times is a "free" paper that reports news not propaganda.
The climate change debate is hugely important and without radical change we are heading for enormous problems.
As at 2017 the countries that produce the most CO2 are:
1. China 9.8 billion metric tonnes
2. USA 5.3 billion
3. India 2.5 billion
4. Russia 1.7 billion
5. Japan 1.2 billion
Uk was 0.3 billion. Behind countries like Indonesia, Iran and Mexico
So if ER are really serious about stopping extension, where do you think the most pressure needs to be applied? This isn't a game as you've acknowledged. But disrupting Uk society starts to feel more political than truly environmental and actually will achieve very little CO2 impact in the global scale.
ER would be better off going to China. [Post edited 6 Sep 2020 12:51]
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You mentioned how much other countries are responsible for climate change in your reply to me yesterday too (sorry didn't get back to you then, game had started).
You don't seem to be aware of just how much a global corp the Murdoch's empire is, nor the extent of their reach. They're into N & S America, Australia & NZ obviously, Asia, Africa, other countries in Europe as well as the UK. Perfect outlets for them to have been pursuing their climate denying agenda, so perfect opportunity for ER to have addressed the very problems you are most concerned about!
This is from a decade ago, no doubt there are more recent articles out there, don't have time to look atm, maybe later -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-14104349 |  |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:09 - Sep 6 with 1825 views | Darth_Koont |
On a related note, this is for those who are claiming that we have a free press to defend and a democracy fit for purpose (none of which stacks up when you compare us to the rest of Western Europe).
This is the big story re: press freedom that's been going on for a while:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/press-freedom-uk-government-counc
I haven't heard a peep about it on here. | |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:19 - Sep 6 with 1802 views | J2BLUE |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 12:50 - Sep 6 by nodge_blue |
It is an attack on democracy.
And the Times is a "free" paper that reports news not propaganda.
The climate change debate is hugely important and without radical change we are heading for enormous problems.
As at 2017 the countries that produce the most CO2 are:
1. China 9.8 billion metric tonnes
2. USA 5.3 billion
3. India 2.5 billion
4. Russia 1.7 billion
5. Japan 1.2 billion
Uk was 0.3 billion. Behind countries like Indonesia, Iran and Mexico
So if ER are really serious about stopping extension, where do you think the most pressure needs to be applied? This isn't a game as you've acknowledged. But disrupting Uk society starts to feel more political than truly environmental and actually will achieve very little CO2 impact in the global scale.
ER would be better off going to China. [Post edited 6 Sep 2020 12:51]
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We need to stop buying cheap Chinese crap | |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:19 - Sep 6 with 1800 views | Darth_Koont |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:06 - Sep 6 by jaseitfc2015 |
If you want to win hearts & minds in the climate change debate then this move shouldn't be lauded , i mean it has actually managed to unify the government, Labour leadership , & even lib dems in condemning it. I dont see how stopping Maude in Rochdale, or Clive in Tonbridge Wells from receiving their saturday paper is going to achieve much?
What seems to be a constant failing of these groups , far left outfits in general is they put all the weight on the virtue & lose sight of the strategy, its precisely why tories win elections. Strategy is everything. [Post edited 6 Sep 2020 13:10]
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Politicians across the board criticising XR's actions and posturing over press freedom is irrelevant. They know they can't go against the billionaire press.
They're neutered and pointless when it comes to these and other questions. Whether it's BLM, climate change, Scottish independence or indeed Farage's right-wing populism driven by our beloved "free press", our political system has been continually outflanked and bypassed by reality.
Politicians can be ignored until they start taking the lead on issues. | |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:21 - Sep 6 with 1789 views | nodge_blue |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:08 - Sep 6 by Ryorry |
You mentioned how much other countries are responsible for climate change in your reply to me yesterday too (sorry didn't get back to you then, game had started).
You don't seem to be aware of just how much a global corp the Murdoch's empire is, nor the extent of their reach. They're into N & S America, Australia & NZ obviously, Asia, Africa, other countries in Europe as well as the UK. Perfect outlets for them to have been pursuing their climate denying agenda, so perfect opportunity for ER to have addressed the very problems you are most concerned about!
This is from a decade ago, no doubt there are more recent articles out there, don't have time to look atm, maybe later -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-14104349 |
Not China. Not Russia. Not India.
I'm not trying to stick up for Murdoch. I dislike him and the the whole thing quite a bit. I'd probably prefer he didnt own the Times. Though I do dispute he influences the editorial content.
What Im saying is that ER go after the wrong targets. And its becoming more political than environmental.
And as the list of CO2 countries evidences is that essentially the UK is not the real problem. Yes we must reduce. But our contribution is tiny. Pressure needs to be applied to China, India, Russia and the USA. And quite frankly I think we have little chance.
So Im pretty pessimistic to be honest. But in the meantime pulling apart our own society will only add to my general fedupness. [Post edited 6 Sep 2020 13:32]
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:22 - Sep 6 with 1788 views | NthQldITFC |
One way I've been thinking about it is along the lines of shifting people up to a higher level of positive action. I've totally plucked the following numbers out of the air to illustrate what I mean, but say that there are:
A. 5% of the population who are dedicated activists.
B. 10% who act seriously to minimise their environmental impact in everything that they do.
C. 20% who care and make a decent effort to minimise their impact, but know they could do more.
D. 20% who believe there's a major problem but don't know how to change.
E. 40% who don't really think about it that much.
F. 5% dedicated denier nutjobs (sorry to be so blunt).
...then any form of action by the A's that renews the issue in the forefront of the minds of people further down the list, and causes them to hop up the list a step or two, can be a seriously positive effect, even if the direct focus of the action is a bit controversial.
I am probably a C, by the way, as I'm sure many would agree! |  |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:22 - Sep 6 with 1785 views | hampstead_blue |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:02 - Sep 6 by EdwardStone |
Morning Mr HB
I have no idea how much you recall about the Greenham Protests.....but I believe that they did a great deal more than cutting a few fences
A lasting legacy has been the return of 1300 acres of open land for recreational use, land that was requisitioned by the War Department in WW2 and was due to be given back after the war ended......however, the MoD had no intention whatsoever of handing back
We can never know how influential the protests were in the introduction of the INF Treaty that outlawed the deployment of Cruise missiles; we do know that the US forces were endlessly embarrassed by how easily their convoys were tracked and stopped....this may have been a significant factor in the US deciding against the continued deployment of these weapons systems
We will never know how many people felt inspired and empowered by seeing a protest movement succeed in its aims, ordinary people doing extraordinary things
I would venture that the protests at Greenham perhaps achieved a little more than just cutting a few fences and has been instrumental in continuing the vein of popular protest that we now see shaping popular opinion about the forthcoming Climate Collapse
I feel that it is less than fair, less than reasonable to diminish the Greenham protests |
I wasn't playing down the impact.
More like impressing that peaceful protest and allowing people to go ahead with their legal business is better than glueing yourself to a pavement.
I was young during Greenham and had the BBC to tell me what was going on. The detail behind wasn't available on rural North Essex back then.
I am pleased it's been returned to nature and public use. |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:25 - Sep 6 with 1772 views | J2BLUE |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:22 - Sep 6 by NthQldITFC |
One way I've been thinking about it is along the lines of shifting people up to a higher level of positive action. I've totally plucked the following numbers out of the air to illustrate what I mean, but say that there are:
A. 5% of the population who are dedicated activists.
B. 10% who act seriously to minimise their environmental impact in everything that they do.
C. 20% who care and make a decent effort to minimise their impact, but know they could do more.
D. 20% who believe there's a major problem but don't know how to change.
E. 40% who don't really think about it that much.
F. 5% dedicated denier nutjobs (sorry to be so blunt).
...then any form of action by the A's that renews the issue in the forefront of the minds of people further down the list, and causes them to hop up the list a step or two, can be a seriously positive effect, even if the direct focus of the action is a bit controversial.
I am probably a C, by the way, as I'm sure many would agree! |
Category C for me. | |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:27 - Sep 6 with 1762 views | Ryorry |
ðŸ‘🻠Needs wider circulation, will post link on twitter. | |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:28 - Sep 6 with 1762 views | nodge_blue |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:05 - Sep 6 by monytowbray |
Who uses their factories, energy sources and buys their goods? The UK ain’t operating on it’s own oil and manufacturing... |
Thats very true. But you might as well stop buying clothes then cos most of those are made in the Asian countries producing high C02.
My point is still essentially we are pulling apart our own society and stopping newspapers!!! in some misguided belief that it will change CO2 emissions of other countries. Which it won't.
So if ER really want to affect change they need to take it to those countries.....somehow....which is virtually impossible.....so instead they disrupt our own.. | |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:30 - Sep 6 with 1755 views | hampstead_blue |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 12:04 - Sep 6 by monytowbray |
I didn’t have to Google it, I just, ya know, keep up to date with factual news and journalists who put themselves in harm’s way to report the truth.
You asked some questions, I provided you with XR’s official statement answering them and evidence via Murdoch’s own family as to the reason in XR’s actions.
If your response to reality is going to be to call out balance all hope is lost, seeing as you won’t be alone in these takes.
It amazes me people who have young family/friends or are young themselves are in such denial about the fact we could be living on a dying planet facing extinction within the next half a century. Identity politics has a lot to answer for. It’s the political equivalent of defending Lambert’s failings on the grounds that he works for your football team and nothing else.
You can change your mind in democracy and disagree with even parties you are a member of. That’s democracy. If we carry on as we are we won’t have a democracy left well before we kill the planet, which in turn will speed up the latter process. These politicians care about their rich fossil fuel burning rich mates, not you and I. [Post edited 6 Sep 2020 12:09]
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facing extinction within the next half a century
No we are not.
That is the problem with this debate. It is full of crazy statements such as this.
Sorry but I get the need to reduce our impact and am 100% behind that.
Telling people to believe we are "facing extinction within the next half a century" is embarrassing. It undermines you and makes you look foolish.
Stopping Murdoch has less to do with climate change and more to do with the agenda of a radical left wing group.
Sorry but don't tell me I don't care if I don't support XR. I don't support XR as they are a radical left wing group telling me to rewind years of technological progress for a life in a cave. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:32 - Sep 6 with 1753 views | Darth_Koont |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:22 - Sep 6 by hampstead_blue |
I wasn't playing down the impact.
More like impressing that peaceful protest and allowing people to go ahead with their legal business is better than glueing yourself to a pavement.
I was young during Greenham and had the BBC to tell me what was going on. The detail behind wasn't available on rural North Essex back then.
I am pleased it's been returned to nature and public use. |
But peaceful environmental protests have been going on for years. Peaceful antiracist protests have been going on for years. Etc. etc.
Civil disobedience is a proven way to get lazy, self-interested democracies and the governments they vote for to actually do something. Because if it doesn't disrupt and impact people then nothing happens. | |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:33 - Sep 6 with 1747 views | Ryorry |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:22 - Sep 6 by NthQldITFC |
One way I've been thinking about it is along the lines of shifting people up to a higher level of positive action. I've totally plucked the following numbers out of the air to illustrate what I mean, but say that there are:
A. 5% of the population who are dedicated activists.
B. 10% who act seriously to minimise their environmental impact in everything that they do.
C. 20% who care and make a decent effort to minimise their impact, but know they could do more.
D. 20% who believe there's a major problem but don't know how to change.
E. 40% who don't really think about it that much.
F. 5% dedicated denier nutjobs (sorry to be so blunt).
...then any form of action by the A's that renews the issue in the forefront of the minds of people further down the list, and causes them to hop up the list a step or two, can be a seriously positive effect, even if the direct focus of the action is a bit controversial.
I am probably a C, by the way, as I'm sure many would agree! |
Also in the 'C' category.
I'm imagining some people who only read the beginnings and ends of threads may at this point be starting to wonder just what us "C cat" people have been getting up to! | |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:34 - Sep 6 with 1745 views | NthQldITFC |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:25 - Sep 6 by J2BLUE |
Category C for me. |
We are a couple of C's then.  | |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:35 - Sep 6 with 1742 views | J2BLUE |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:33 - Sep 6 by Ryorry |
Also in the 'C' category.
I'm imagining some people who only read the beginnings and ends of threads may at this point be starting to wonder just what us "C cat" people have been getting up to! |
I nearly replied 'I'm a C' but thought people might misinterpret. [Post edited 6 Sep 2020 13:35]
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:36 - Sep 6 with 1734 views | Darth_Koont |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:28 - Sep 6 by nodge_blue |
Thats very true. But you might as well stop buying clothes then cos most of those are made in the Asian countries producing high C02.
My point is still essentially we are pulling apart our own society and stopping newspapers!!! in some misguided belief that it will change CO2 emissions of other countries. Which it won't.
So if ER really want to affect change they need to take it to those countries.....somehow....which is virtually impossible.....so instead they disrupt our own.. |
I think you've got your head buried in the sand about the UK's own role in this.
It's human nature so I get people wanting to push it away and not have to deal with it. But that's just not how the world and especially climate change works. | |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:37 - Sep 6 with 1731 views | EdwardStone |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:22 - Sep 6 by hampstead_blue |
I wasn't playing down the impact.
More like impressing that peaceful protest and allowing people to go ahead with their legal business is better than glueing yourself to a pavement.
I was young during Greenham and had the BBC to tell me what was going on. The detail behind wasn't available on rural North Essex back then.
I am pleased it's been returned to nature and public use. |
I think that there was a fair bit of impact on "legal business"
The gates to the base were blockaded numerous times, the convoy of Cruise missiles was halted on countless occasions and the good citizens of Newbury worked themselves into a state of apoplexy about the situation
My favourite impact was that one of the squaddies guarding the wire dated then married one of the protestors....I believe they are still together to this day
The Common is worth a visit if you are in the area....they have a museum in the former Control Tower that sets out the history in an unbiased way | | | |
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