| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:40 - Sep 6 with 1485 views | Ryorry |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:28 - Sep 6 by nodge_blue |
Thats very true. But you might as well stop buying clothes then cos most of those are made in the Asian countries producing high C02.
My point is still essentially we are pulling apart our own society and stopping newspapers!!! in some misguided belief that it will change CO2 emissions of other countries. Which it won't.
So if ER really want to affect change they need to take it to those countries.....somehow....which is virtually impossible.....so instead they disrupt our own.. |
Did you read my post above re the reach of the Murdochs' climate denying news orgs into Asia? (edit: incl India, and into the USA too, having just read your 13.21 post which I'd missed as it's been a fast moving thread over the past 30 mins. So ER have been doing exactly what you said you wanted, ie taking their protest to those countries by addressing the Murdochs' climate-denying propaganda within those countries).
And I'm not an economist or business expert, but I'd have thought encouraging the regeneration of our own UK textiles & clothes industries would be a very positive move. We used to be really good at it - check out the histories of northern cities like Leeds and Manchester as well as London.
'The Rag Trade' - anyone old enough to remember, like me, that great TV sitcom? Even my dyed in the wool (soz ...) Tory-blue Dad used to lol at that, along with the rest of us :) [Post edited 6 Sep 2020 13:50]
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:50 - Sep 6 with 1448 views | monytowbray |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:30 - Sep 6 by hampstead_blue |
facing extinction within the next half a century
No we are not.
That is the problem with this debate. It is full of crazy statements such as this.
Sorry but I get the need to reduce our impact and am 100% behind that.
Telling people to believe we are "facing extinction within the next half a century" is embarrassing. It undermines you and makes you look foolish.
Stopping Murdoch has less to do with climate change and more to do with the agenda of a radical left wing group.
Sorry but don't tell me I don't care if I don't support XR. I don't support XR as they are a radical left wing group telling me to rewind years of technological progress for a life in a cave. |
Why is it all your posts are full of statements of a personal opinion but never any evidence to back it up?
I really do try with you but I think you’re a lost cause in a part of society history won’t talk kindly of.
Read up on climate change. Do some research. 98% of scientists telling us we have a huge problem on our hands should be enough to sway anyone. You are being manipulated by the “free” press. |  |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:50 - Sep 6 with 1448 views | nodge_blue |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:40 - Sep 6 by Ryorry |
Did you read my post above re the reach of the Murdochs' climate denying news orgs into Asia? (edit: incl India, and into the USA too, having just read your 13.21 post which I'd missed as it's been a fast moving thread over the past 30 mins. So ER have been doing exactly what you said you wanted, ie taking their protest to those countries by addressing the Murdochs' climate-denying propaganda within those countries).
And I'm not an economist or business expert, but I'd have thought encouraging the regeneration of our own UK textiles & clothes industries would be a very positive move. We used to be really good at it - check out the histories of northern cities like Leeds and Manchester as well as London.
'The Rag Trade' - anyone old enough to remember, like me, that great TV sitcom? Even my dyed in the wool (soz ...) Tory-blue Dad used to lol at that, along with the rest of us :) [Post edited 6 Sep 2020 13:50]
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I agree. id love to see a regeneration of many of our industries.
The trouble is our higher labour / production costs have made them uncompetitive over the years and the public will tend to prefer to pay less - hence we source so much from abroad.
Its a no win situation.
I hope for the best and do what I can.
The other huge problem we have is there being 9 billion people on the planet - all of which want a good lifestyle. When I was born there were 3.5 billion on the planet. Thats a mind boggling statistic. When you consider the human race has been here for a few hundred thousand years. No wonder there's too much plastic and climate change. The world can only cope with finite things.
Anyway Im off for a bike ride! |  |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:52 - Sep 6 with 1441 views | m14_blue |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:30 - Sep 6 by hampstead_blue |
facing extinction within the next half a century
No we are not.
That is the problem with this debate. It is full of crazy statements such as this.
Sorry but I get the need to reduce our impact and am 100% behind that.
Telling people to believe we are "facing extinction within the next half a century" is embarrassing. It undermines you and makes you look foolish.
Stopping Murdoch has less to do with climate change and more to do with the agenda of a radical left wing group.
Sorry but don't tell me I don't care if I don't support XR. I don't support XR as they are a radical left wing group telling me to rewind years of technological progress for a life in a cave. |
"That is the problem with this debate. It is full of crazy statements such as this."
And then later in the same post;
"I don't support XR as they are a radical left wing group telling me to rewind years of technological progress for a life in a cave."
Top work HB. |  | | |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 14:11 - Sep 6 with 1413 views | Darth_Koont |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:52 - Sep 6 by m14_blue |
"That is the problem with this debate. It is full of crazy statements such as this."
And then later in the same post;
"I don't support XR as they are a radical left wing group telling me to rewind years of technological progress for a life in a cave."
Top work HB. |
He's the Richard Littlejohn of TWTD. |  |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 14:30 - Sep 6 with 1391 views | monytowbray |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 14:11 - Sep 6 by Darth_Koont |
He's the Richard Littlejohn of TWTD. |
With credit to HB, I don’t think he ever played part in driving a Trans person to suicide and then tried to delete all records of it! | |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 14:33 - Sep 6 with 1382 views | nodge_blue |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:36 - Sep 6 by Darth_Koont |
I think you've got your head buried in the sand about the UK's own role in this.
It's human nature so I get people wanting to push it away and not have to deal with it. But that's just not how the world and especially climate change works. |
I will take your remark in a non defensive way and say my head isn't in the sand. i can see we play a role and yes we import many goods made using other countries C02.
But ultimately as the table of CO2 producing countries shows we are looking at China, Russia, USA, India as huge producers. On a scale that probably out numbers the rest of the world put together. If they don't cut their emissions by 50% or more we have no chance.
And these countries led by Putin / Trump (currently) are basically climate change deniers. Add in countries like Brazil that are literally burning down the rain forests to create space to graze cows.
I mean what chance have we got? And to spray white paint out of fire engines, stopping tubes running or stop the press being printed as justification for addressing climate change is just a waste of time. A "helluva statement" would be impacting China.
Im dealing with it in my own way as Ive said before in this thread. Im not pushing it away like it doesn't exist. Im doing things in my life to make some difference.
Sadly I don't think we can stop climate change now. We can only marginally reduce its impact. [Post edited 6 Sep 2020 14:40]
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 14:36 - Sep 6 with 1377 views | Darth_Koont |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 14:30 - Sep 6 by monytowbray |
With credit to HB, I don’t think he ever played part in driving a Trans person to suicide and then tried to delete all records of it! |
True.
Although I think HB beats him on hilarious shooting fantasies. | |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 14:39 - Sep 6 with 1369 views | monytowbray |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 14:33 - Sep 6 by nodge_blue |
I will take your remark in a non defensive way and say my head isn't in the sand. i can see we play a role and yes we import many goods made using other countries C02.
But ultimately as the table of CO2 producing countries shows we are looking at China, Russia, USA, India as huge producers. On a scale that probably out numbers the rest of the world put together. If they don't cut their emissions by 50% or more we have no chance.
And these countries led by Putin / Trump (currently) are basically climate change deniers. Add in countries like Brazil that are literally burning down the rain forests to create space to graze cows.
I mean what chance have we got? And to spray white paint out of fire engines, stopping tubes running or stop the press being printed as justification for addressing climate change is just a waste of time. A "helluva statement" would be impacting China.
Im dealing with it in my own way as Ive said before in this thread. Im not pushing it away like it doesn't exist. Im doing things in my life to make some difference.
Sadly I don't think we can stop climate change now. We can only marginally reduce its impact. [Post edited 6 Sep 2020 14:40]
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The very press XR are trying to warn you of have their grip on you. You have the power to escape, as XR said; #FreeTheTruth
You can listen to what people are having to take extreme action to get heard are saying and demand change, or you can carry on spewing a whatteraboutery narrative those who don’t care about your future in favour of money continually feed you.
The free market has contributed to climate change. We buy from these nations. Australia buy a lot of coal from China.
Change requires us all to take responsibility, individually to build a collective. All these people understand is profit from consumption, and we have a choice to choose how/what we consume in many parts of our life. This isn’t something that’s going to fix itself, that approach has actually resulted in more pollution over the last 30 years.
The right side of history is calling, join it... [Post edited 6 Sep 2020 14:41]
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 14:44 - Sep 6 with 1355 views | J2BLUE |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 14:33 - Sep 6 by nodge_blue |
I will take your remark in a non defensive way and say my head isn't in the sand. i can see we play a role and yes we import many goods made using other countries C02.
But ultimately as the table of CO2 producing countries shows we are looking at China, Russia, USA, India as huge producers. On a scale that probably out numbers the rest of the world put together. If they don't cut their emissions by 50% or more we have no chance.
And these countries led by Putin / Trump (currently) are basically climate change deniers. Add in countries like Brazil that are literally burning down the rain forests to create space to graze cows.
I mean what chance have we got? And to spray white paint out of fire engines, stopping tubes running or stop the press being printed as justification for addressing climate change is just a waste of time. A "helluva statement" would be impacting China.
Im dealing with it in my own way as Ive said before in this thread. Im not pushing it away like it doesn't exist. Im doing things in my life to make some difference.
Sadly I don't think we can stop climate change now. We can only marginally reduce its impact. [Post edited 6 Sep 2020 14:40]
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If we produce such a small amount why don't we aim to be the first zero net emissions country?
It would increase pressure on Europe to do the same. We might not be the biggest problem but every little helps. We could do with the supermarkets getting on board as well. No need for apples from New Zealand for example. |  |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 14:46 - Sep 6 with 1352 views | nodge_blue |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 14:39 - Sep 6 by monytowbray |
The very press XR are trying to warn you of have their grip on you. You have the power to escape, as XR said; #FreeTheTruth
You can listen to what people are having to take extreme action to get heard are saying and demand change, or you can carry on spewing a whatteraboutery narrative those who don’t care about your future in favour of money continually feed you.
The free market has contributed to climate change. We buy from these nations. Australia buy a lot of coal from China.
Change requires us all to take responsibility, individually to build a collective. All these people understand is profit from consumption, and we have a choice to choose how/what we consume in many parts of our life. This isn’t something that’s going to fix itself, that approach has actually resulted in more pollution over the last 30 years.
The right side of history is calling, join it... [Post edited 6 Sep 2020 14:41]
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You think all those Brazilian farmers are sitting there thinking "christ i'd better stop burning the rain forest down because all those people in Britain didn't get their copy of the daily mail"?
You think the free market and the behaviour of China, Russia, USA and Brazil is going to stop?
Seriously? | |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 14:49 - Sep 6 with 1346 views | nodge_blue |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 14:44 - Sep 6 by J2BLUE |
If we produce such a small amount why don't we aim to be the first zero net emissions country?
It would increase pressure on Europe to do the same. We might not be the biggest problem but every little helps. We could do with the supermarkets getting on board as well. No need for apples from New Zealand for example. |
I don't disagree with any of that. [Post edited 6 Sep 2020 14:49]
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 14:50 - Sep 6 with 1335 views | NewcyBlue |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 14:44 - Sep 6 by J2BLUE |
If we produce such a small amount why don't we aim to be the first zero net emissions country?
It would increase pressure on Europe to do the same. We might not be the biggest problem but every little helps. We could do with the supermarkets getting on board as well. No need for apples from New Zealand for example. |
Bhutan and Suriname are already carbon negative. |  |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 14:52 - Sep 6 with 1329 views | J2BLUE |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 14:50 - Sep 6 by NewcyBlue |
Bhutan and Suriname are already carbon negative. |
My deepest apologies to the good people of Bhutan and Suriname. | |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 14:56 - Sep 6 with 1313 views | NewcyBlue |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 14:52 - Sep 6 by J2BLUE |
My deepest apologies to the good people of Bhutan and Suriname. |
They do not accept your apologies. | |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 15:02 - Sep 6 with 1299 views | J2BLUE |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 14:56 - Sep 6 by NewcyBlue |
They do not accept your apologies. |
Fook them then. | |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 15:03 - Sep 6 with 1299 views | NewcyBlue |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 14:39 - Sep 6 by monytowbray |
The very press XR are trying to warn you of have their grip on you. You have the power to escape, as XR said; #FreeTheTruth
You can listen to what people are having to take extreme action to get heard are saying and demand change, or you can carry on spewing a whatteraboutery narrative those who don’t care about your future in favour of money continually feed you.
The free market has contributed to climate change. We buy from these nations. Australia buy a lot of coal from China.
Change requires us all to take responsibility, individually to build a collective. All these people understand is profit from consumption, and we have a choice to choose how/what we consume in many parts of our life. This isn’t something that’s going to fix itself, that approach has actually resulted in more pollution over the last 30 years.
The right side of history is calling, join it... [Post edited 6 Sep 2020 14:41]
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“ The right side of history is calling, join it...”
It’s not about being right. It’s about doing what’s right.
Otherwise some of your points are valid and correct.
COVID never slowed shipping down, goods from the Far East still made it all over the world. The unions buckled. Seafarers became prisoners.
A complete shut down would have been good for the world.
A lot of us have lost the ability of making stuff. It’s much easier to buy cots for the twins from Ikea than it is for me to buy wood and build them. My woodwork is ok. We pay for the convenience. We pay for it in more ways than cash.
Much the same for most things we buy. | |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 15:04 - Sep 6 with 1295 views | monytowbray |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 14:46 - Sep 6 by nodge_blue |
You think all those Brazilian farmers are sitting there thinking "christ i'd better stop burning the rain forest down because all those people in Britain didn't get their copy of the daily mail"?
You think the free market and the behaviour of China, Russia, USA and Brazil is going to stop?
Seriously? |
They’re destroying their environment to support our diets and drug habits.
The biggest hurdle you must overcome is to understand every action has a ripple effect, many of them globally in the modern world. This isn’t a matter of “Well we do this and they do that”, it’s a matter of “this happens there because someone else is doing something here.”
It’s all in the name of money and those with that money don’t want you to think about geo political matters. It makes their simple narratives they sell us look, well, too simple to hold weight. | |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 15:04 - Sep 6 with 1294 views | jaseitfc2015 |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:19 - Sep 6 by Darth_Koont |
Politicians across the board criticising XR's actions and posturing over press freedom is irrelevant. They know they can't go against the billionaire press.
They're neutered and pointless when it comes to these and other questions. Whether it's BLM, climate change, Scottish independence or indeed Farage's right-wing populism driven by our beloved "free press", our political system has been continually outflanked and bypassed by reality.
Politicians can be ignored until they start taking the lead on issues. |
Politicians can yes, but I believe in this case they reflect the wider public mood. About 60% of the population accept the climate change urgency, I'm not being seen to block the press is a good look for XR.
Time will tell , we can look at the polls , then again polls only have value when they tell you what you want i suppose ... | | | |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 15:06 - Sep 6 with 1289 views | monytowbray |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 15:03 - Sep 6 by NewcyBlue |
“ The right side of history is calling, join it...”
It’s not about being right. It’s about doing what’s right.
Otherwise some of your points are valid and correct.
COVID never slowed shipping down, goods from the Far East still made it all over the world. The unions buckled. Seafarers became prisoners.
A complete shut down would have been good for the world.
A lot of us have lost the ability of making stuff. It’s much easier to buy cots for the twins from Ikea than it is for me to buy wood and build them. My woodwork is ok. We pay for the convenience. We pay for it in more ways than cash.
Much the same for most things we buy. |
But if you are right, you are right. If facts show you are right, you are right. Bluefish was right about Lambert, like it or not.
The idea that any opinion holds weight needs to die, it’s actually damaging humanity. | |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 15:09 - Sep 6 with 1283 views | NewcyBlue |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 15:04 - Sep 6 by monytowbray |
They’re destroying their environment to support our diets and drug habits.
The biggest hurdle you must overcome is to understand every action has a ripple effect, many of them globally in the modern world. This isn’t a matter of “Well we do this and they do that”, it’s a matter of “this happens there because someone else is doing something here.”
It’s all in the name of money and those with that money don’t want you to think about geo political matters. It makes their simple narratives they sell us look, well, too simple to hold weight. |
“ They’re destroying their environment to support our diets and drug habits.”
It’s more than that. We live in a throw away society. How many mobile phones have you had over the last decade? How many times do you buy a bottle of drink out and about, when in reality we should be taking empty bottles that we reuse.
It’s mass consumerism.
We no longer mend things. Cars, now we just replace parts. There is no real engineering. Connect the laptop, read the fault code, replace the part.
We used to run cars for many years. Now you rarely see old cars on the road. | |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 15:11 - Sep 6 with 1275 views | WeWereZombies |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 13:30 - Sep 6 by hampstead_blue |
facing extinction within the next half a century
No we are not.
That is the problem with this debate. It is full of crazy statements such as this.
Sorry but I get the need to reduce our impact and am 100% behind that.
Telling people to believe we are "facing extinction within the next half a century" is embarrassing. It undermines you and makes you look foolish.
Stopping Murdoch has less to do with climate change and more to do with the agenda of a radical left wing group.
Sorry but don't tell me I don't care if I don't support XR. I don't support XR as they are a radical left wing group telling me to rewind years of technological progress for a life in a cave. |
You are so wide of the mark I suspect that you are one of those religious fundamentalists that believe God created the Earth in six days ten thousand years ago. Take a read of this:
https://www.un.org/sustainabledevelopment/blog/2019/05/nature-decline-unpreceden
No doubt you will decry the United Nations as a radical left wing group who will force us to live in caves (for what it is worth I don't think there are enough caves for that to be a practical solution.) |  |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 15:14 - Sep 6 with 1272 views | NewcyBlue |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 15:06 - Sep 6 by monytowbray |
But if you are right, you are right. If facts show you are right, you are right. Bluefish was right about Lambert, like it or not.
The idea that any opinion holds weight needs to die, it’s actually damaging humanity. |
I agree. Completely.
I just think people would be less defensive with you in particular if you didn’t post such things.
Again, I completely agree with you. | |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 16:17 - Sep 6 with 1236 views | nodge_blue |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 15:04 - Sep 6 by monytowbray |
They’re destroying their environment to support our diets and drug habits.
The biggest hurdle you must overcome is to understand every action has a ripple effect, many of them globally in the modern world. This isn’t a matter of “Well we do this and they do that”, it’s a matter of “this happens there because someone else is doing something here.”
It’s all in the name of money and those with that money don’t want you to think about geo political matters. It makes their simple narratives they sell us look, well, too simple to hold weight. |
I do agree that Trump and his ilk do have an agenda to protect themselves and won't act as a consequence - or at least not enough. I do take those points and its exactly what Ive been saying really. Add Putin and China to that list as I keep saying. But ultimately this all comes back to you have to convince those countries to change. Acts of rebellion in the UK are virtually pointless. A country that has low emissions relatively and has a plan to low emissions - unlike the other culprits.
You want us to beat ourselves up? It will probably promote more Farages and more populism from the right of society - including dare I say a lot of traditional working class areas.
The biggest hurdle you need to overcome is that those countries must change first and foremost. China will not stop mass producing goods. But can it be persuaded to do them in a more greener way though.
Oh google says...
Brazil is actually the biggest consumer of its own beef, followed by India, Australia, USA and New Zealand. So again, easy words used to justify the UK seemingly being at the centre of the whole problem - which its not fundamentally.
And also with a world population of 9 billion, with countries like India rapidly becoming more demanding of western style lifestyles, we are screwed anyway. Hopefully no one under the age of 16 will read this last doom laden paragraph. | |
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| Helluva statement from XR... on 16:50 - Sep 6 with 1204 views | Herbivore |
| Helluva statement from XR... on 12:50 - Sep 6 by nodge_blue |
It is an attack on democracy.
And the Times is a "free" paper that reports news not propaganda.
The climate change debate is hugely important and without radical change we are heading for enormous problems.
As at 2017 the countries that produce the most CO2 are:
1. China 9.8 billion metric tonnes
2. USA 5.3 billion
3. India 2.5 billion
4. Russia 1.7 billion
5. Japan 1.2 billion
Uk was 0.3 billion. Behind countries like Indonesia, Iran and Mexico
So if ER are really serious about stopping extension, where do you think the most pressure needs to be applied? This isn't a game as you've acknowledged. But disrupting Uk society starts to feel more political than truly environmental and actually will achieve very little CO2 impact in the global scale.
ER would be better off going to China. [Post edited 6 Sep 2020 12:51]
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How is it an attack on democracy? You keep repeating this but I've not seen you actually put forward an argument that backs up the idea that these protests represent an attack on democracy. Murdoch's influence on UK politics through his media empire represents an attack on democracy, XR blocking some roads doesn't seem to. |  |
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