| This doesn't make good reading 16:17 - Oct 30 with 5208 views | StokieBlue |
SAGE are saying that we are going to surpass the "worst case scenario" they outlined at the start of October with regards to deaths and that it's probably already too late for a short "circuit breaker" to stop that.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-death-toll-uk-sage-second-
Any lockdown implemented now will have to be longer and stricter than the previously recommended circuit breaker.
At the same moment we have the foreigner secretary saying there won't be another national lockdown and football club owners writing letters in an attempt to get fans back into grounds.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| This doesn't make good reading on 17:33 - Oct 30 with 1715 views | HARRY10 |
SAGE'S OPINION STUFFING XMAS |  | | |
| This doesn't make good reading on 17:37 - Oct 30 with 1695 views | StokieBlue |
| This doesn't make good reading on 17:32 - Oct 30 by BlueStreak |
I am by no means an expert hence why I would rather get my info from them however how many people normally die from flu each each year? I heard it was about 50k but unsure how accurate that is so don't want to speculate around it all. My very uneducated and basixlc thought on this if is it is usually around 50k, however these deaths are significantly down this year due to deaths being attributed to covid, are we a million miles away from where we would 'usually' be on deaths during the year? |
It's nowhere near 50k in the UK.
In the worst flu season recently (2017/2018) there were 22,000 deaths associated with flu. On average it's less than 10,000 per year.
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| This doesn't make good reading on 17:39 - Oct 30 with 1677 views | BlueStreak |
| This doesn't make good reading on 17:37 - Oct 30 by StokieBlue |
It's nowhere near 50k in the UK.
In the worst flu season recently (2017/2018) there were 22,000 deaths associated with flu. On average it's less than 10,000 per year.
SB |
Ok cool thanks for clarifying. Numbers seemed high but wanted clarity. |  | | |
| This doesn't make good reading on 17:44 - Oct 30 with 1660 views | NthQldITFC |
One could almost be forgiven for thinking that we've got a bunch of half-wit chancers running things. We must hope that they come to their senses or get somehow kicked out sharpish. There will be some form of accountability sooner or later, perhaps not in the normal whitewashed format. |  |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| This doesn't make good reading on 17:51 - Oct 30 with 1645 views | Vic |
| This doesn't make good reading on 16:40 - Oct 30 by itfcjoe |
I was in Tier 2 Essex yesterday, and went for lunch at Lakeside in one of the restaurants there - bearing in mind this is somewhere with rules against household mixing nearly every table in there was breaking the rules, (or at least appeared to be, some may have had strange circumstances, or been on 'business lunches')
It wasn't any particular demographic - of top of my head it was
- 4 60 year old women having lunch
- Mum with young kids, with 2 older ladies
- 2 sets of Asian families (4 adults and 4 kids)
- 6 18-21 year old lads
- 5 mid 20s girls
And this was in just one of the 10 or so restaurants there.
I was at a pub in Brentwood this morning, they said round the corner from them a pub was doing a bottomless Prosecco deal and was raided by police - basically told unless you can prove you are not household mixing then you either go home now or get a fine, everyone went home. A pub/club round the corner from them got a big fine for just not caring re rules.
I was amazed by how brazen it was at Lakeside in the restaurants - it was just so obvious as detailed above.
It's basically just social distancing where you can and masks (which 99% of people were complying with) - people have given up on the proper rules |
Which all shows that it’s really ‘us’ that’s the problem. It’s easy to blame the politicians, but we’re the ones not socially distancing and doing the other stuff that will help. If we all did our bit things would be a whole lot easier. |  |
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| This doesn't make good reading on 18:38 - Oct 30 with 1616 views | Guthrum |
| This doesn't make good reading on 16:28 - Oct 30 by bluelagos |
You know your stuff Stokie. A mate (normally sane) seems to be going down the mentalist route - claiming there is no scientific proof that lockdowns reduce deaths.
You got any links to anything that shows they do? |
Just look at the graph of infections/deaths from earlier this year. Steeply rising through March and into the beginning of April (there is, obviously, going to be some lag on the effect showing up in stats, due to incubation times, etc.) - thereafter, the numbers start to steadily fall.
Lockdown is lifted. There is a brief spell of calm, then the numbers start to go up again. |  |
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| This doesn't make good reading on 18:45 - Oct 30 with 1608 views | Lamp |
| This doesn't make good reading on 16:40 - Oct 30 by itfcjoe |
I was in Tier 2 Essex yesterday, and went for lunch at Lakeside in one of the restaurants there - bearing in mind this is somewhere with rules against household mixing nearly every table in there was breaking the rules, (or at least appeared to be, some may have had strange circumstances, or been on 'business lunches')
It wasn't any particular demographic - of top of my head it was
- 4 60 year old women having lunch
- Mum with young kids, with 2 older ladies
- 2 sets of Asian families (4 adults and 4 kids)
- 6 18-21 year old lads
- 5 mid 20s girls
And this was in just one of the 10 or so restaurants there.
I was at a pub in Brentwood this morning, they said round the corner from them a pub was doing a bottomless Prosecco deal and was raided by police - basically told unless you can prove you are not household mixing then you either go home now or get a fine, everyone went home. A pub/club round the corner from them got a big fine for just not caring re rules.
I was amazed by how brazen it was at Lakeside in the restaurants - it was just so obvious as detailed above.
It's basically just social distancing where you can and masks (which 99% of people were complying with) - people have given up on the proper rules |
Lakeside falls under Thurrock Council which is Tier 1 |  | | |
| This doesn't make good reading on 18:51 - Oct 30 with 1596 views | gordon |
| This doesn't make good reading on 16:33 - Oct 30 by BloomBlue |
Although on the opposite side if they cannot find a vaccine which works, isn't herd immunity the only option? |
Herd immunity isn't an option that we can choose - in the absence of effective control measures or a vaccine, the much more likely outcome is periodic waves of infection for years. |  | | |
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| This doesn't make good reading on 18:54 - Oct 30 with 1591 views | jeera |
| This doesn't make good reading on 18:51 - Oct 30 by gordon |
Herd immunity isn't an option that we can choose - in the absence of effective control measures or a vaccine, the much more likely outcome is periodic waves of infection for years. |
Why are people still repeating the words 'herd immunity' like some mantra when it's been pretty dismissed as an unreliable option so far?
Only this past week or 2 it's been widely reported that antibodies aren't lasting long enough to withstand another bout.
If this is true for the majority, I admit I do not know, but nonetheless it does rather throw enough doubt to not make that tha main plan at least. |  |
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| This doesn't make good reading on 19:13 - Oct 30 with 1580 views | NthQldITFC |
| This doesn't make good reading on 18:54 - Oct 30 by jeera |
Why are people still repeating the words 'herd immunity' like some mantra when it's been pretty dismissed as an unreliable option so far?
Only this past week or 2 it's been widely reported that antibodies aren't lasting long enough to withstand another bout.
If this is true for the majority, I admit I do not know, but nonetheless it does rather throw enough doubt to not make that tha main plan at least. |
It's because it's not really an option, it's a desirable outcome with no means yet of getting there. And it's not an absolute, it's more a case of "we need a high degree of herd immunity to help us to control future outbreaks".
Unfortunately the term has become poisoned by misuse. I think it was the concept of "let people get infected, recover and become immune (option) to build up herd immunity (outcome)" which tainted the term, in my opinion. | |
| # WE ARE STEALING THE FUTURE FROM OUR CHILDREN --- WE MUST CHANGE COURSE # | | Poll: | It's driving me nuts |
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| This doesn't make good reading on 19:24 - Oct 30 with 1572 views | ITFC_Forever |
| This doesn't make good reading on 17:15 - Oct 30 by BlueStreak |
Genuine question here, how are flu deaths numbers looking so far this year? Are they trending the same as orevious years or are they lower? I have no idea ofntue answer so thought I would ask. Ta. |
Flu deaths will be down, as social distancing measures etc will reduce the spread of other illnesses, not just Covid. |  |
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| This doesn't make good reading on 19:57 - Oct 30 with 1544 views | jeera |
| This doesn't make good reading on 19:24 - Oct 30 by ITFC_Forever |
Flu deaths will be down, as social distancing measures etc will reduce the spread of other illnesses, not just Covid. |
Quite.
As will the numbers of hugs, kisses, coughs, colds and all other weird and unpleasant human gunk from common contact. | |
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| This doesn't make good reading on 20:04 - Oct 30 with 1527 views | Swansea_Blue |
| This doesn't make good reading on 18:54 - Oct 30 by jeera |
Why are people still repeating the words 'herd immunity' like some mantra when it's been pretty dismissed as an unreliable option so far?
Only this past week or 2 it's been widely reported that antibodies aren't lasting long enough to withstand another bout.
If this is true for the majority, I admit I do not know, but nonetheless it does rather throw enough doubt to not make that tha main plan at least. |
Why do/did they chant the mantras ‘take back control’, “get Brexit done”, “make America great again”.
Feckwits, that’s why. That’s the short, sad answer. Or alternatively, if we want to be more polite - people who’ve been mislead and recruited by bad actors for various nefarious purposes. |  |
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| This doesn't make good reading on 20:17 - Oct 30 with 1513 views | BlueBadger |
| This doesn't make good reading on 18:45 - Oct 30 by Lamp |
Lakeside falls under Thurrock Council which is Tier 1 |
...but 'Furrock' is in Essex... |  |
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| This doesn't make good reading on 22:31 - Oct 30 with 1411 views | BlueBadger |
FFS. | |
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| This doesn't make good reading on 01:04 - Oct 31 with 1353 views | pointofblue |
| This doesn't make good reading on 16:40 - Oct 30 by itfcjoe |
I was in Tier 2 Essex yesterday, and went for lunch at Lakeside in one of the restaurants there - bearing in mind this is somewhere with rules against household mixing nearly every table in there was breaking the rules, (or at least appeared to be, some may have had strange circumstances, or been on 'business lunches')
It wasn't any particular demographic - of top of my head it was
- 4 60 year old women having lunch
- Mum with young kids, with 2 older ladies
- 2 sets of Asian families (4 adults and 4 kids)
- 6 18-21 year old lads
- 5 mid 20s girls
And this was in just one of the 10 or so restaurants there.
I was at a pub in Brentwood this morning, they said round the corner from them a pub was doing a bottomless Prosecco deal and was raided by police - basically told unless you can prove you are not household mixing then you either go home now or get a fine, everyone went home. A pub/club round the corner from them got a big fine for just not caring re rules.
I was amazed by how brazen it was at Lakeside in the restaurants - it was just so obvious as detailed above.
It's basically just social distancing where you can and masks (which 99% of people were complying with) - people have given up on the proper rules |
Because people have had enough.
The most 'obvious' thing to do would be close the borders both ways, lockdown the country for a month to six weeks, let Covid run itself dry and then maintain the border closure until the rest of the world either follows suit or finds a normality akin to last year.
But they won't do that because of the economy and the fact people will lash out more and more. It can be seen as selfish or unreasonable but human beings are socialable creatures by habit - we need connections, we need to see loved ones, we're not built to sit at home staring at four walls. The more time goes on the more I'm hearing from people who were religiously following guidance during the first lockdown say "I've had enough", "I can't do this anymore", "I've got to get out", "I can't cope" - admittedly those who have not directly known a Covid sufferer.
It's all very well saying induce a lockdown but the finances and the mental health approaches have to be put in place to manage this; if this is going to go on as long as now rumoured then society in general will breakdown - not to put too fine a point on it whilst Covid death may be placed under some sort of control the increase in the likes of suicide and breakdowns are likely to increase. | |
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| This doesn't make good reading on 01:14 - Oct 31 with 1350 views | jeera |
| This doesn't make good reading on 01:04 - Oct 31 by pointofblue |
Because people have had enough.
The most 'obvious' thing to do would be close the borders both ways, lockdown the country for a month to six weeks, let Covid run itself dry and then maintain the border closure until the rest of the world either follows suit or finds a normality akin to last year.
But they won't do that because of the economy and the fact people will lash out more and more. It can be seen as selfish or unreasonable but human beings are socialable creatures by habit - we need connections, we need to see loved ones, we're not built to sit at home staring at four walls. The more time goes on the more I'm hearing from people who were religiously following guidance during the first lockdown say "I've had enough", "I can't do this anymore", "I've got to get out", "I can't cope" - admittedly those who have not directly known a Covid sufferer.
It's all very well saying induce a lockdown but the finances and the mental health approaches have to be put in place to manage this; if this is going to go on as long as now rumoured then society in general will breakdown - not to put too fine a point on it whilst Covid death may be placed under some sort of control the increase in the likes of suicide and breakdowns are likely to increase. |
I was trying to say the other week how it puts a sort of perspective on how prisons and prisoners might have to cope.
If you consider all the talk and front page outrage of some national rags over the years about how some prisoners were being allowed certain privileges: TVs, computer games etc, as though life was easy being 'inside'.
If people cannot cope in their own homes then it shows how many of us wouldn't deal with being locked-up in one of those places. | |
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| This doesn't make good reading on 01:23 - Oct 31 with 1339 views | SpruceMoose |
| This doesn't make good reading on 19:24 - Oct 30 by ITFC_Forever |
Flu deaths will be down, as social distancing measures etc will reduce the spread of other illnesses, not just Covid. |
On a related note, I was remarking to Ms Moose the other day that I have not been ill (so far) at all this year. Not so much as a sickness bug, cough, or sniffle. Probably for the first time ever, and all thanks to washing my hands, wearing a mask in public and avoiding large gatherings. |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| This doesn't make good reading on 01:25 - Oct 31 with 1338 views | SpruceMoose |
| This doesn't make good reading on 20:04 - Oct 30 by Swansea_Blue |
Why do/did they chant the mantras ‘take back control’, “get Brexit done”, “make America great again”.
Feckwits, that’s why. That’s the short, sad answer. Or alternatively, if we want to be more polite - people who’ve been mislead and recruited by bad actors for various nefarious purposes. |
You're stupidly rich or monumentally stupid.
The only explanations for supporting this horror show. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| This doesn't make good reading on 01:26 - Oct 31 with 1336 views | pointofblue |
| This doesn't make good reading on 01:14 - Oct 31 by jeera |
I was trying to say the other week how it puts a sort of perspective on how prisons and prisoners might have to cope.
If you consider all the talk and front page outrage of some national rags over the years about how some prisoners were being allowed certain privileges: TVs, computer games etc, as though life was easy being 'inside'.
If people cannot cope in their own homes then it shows how many of us wouldn't deal with being locked-up in one of those places. |
That is very true, and there is more freedom outside prisons to make video and telephone calls to loved ones and friends, of course.
The only thing I would possibly argue against it is I think a lot of people are struggling with the uncertainty - the one thing prisoners get, post sentencing, is they know the minimum period they will be locked up for. The applying of the accelator and the brake, the hope then the concern, the headlines that we could be seeing outbreaks vfor five years which I read earlier... that is going to be driving a lot of angst and the attitude of "what's the point?" | |
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| This doesn't make good reading on 01:27 - Oct 31 with 1336 views | SpruceMoose |
| This doesn't make good reading on 01:14 - Oct 31 by jeera |
I was trying to say the other week how it puts a sort of perspective on how prisons and prisoners might have to cope.
If you consider all the talk and front page outrage of some national rags over the years about how some prisoners were being allowed certain privileges: TVs, computer games etc, as though life was easy being 'inside'.
If people cannot cope in their own homes then it shows how many of us wouldn't deal with being locked-up in one of those places. |
Yeah but they all get free Playstations and toilet wine at least. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| This doesn't make good reading on 01:30 - Oct 31 with 1333 views | jeera |
| This doesn't make good reading on 01:26 - Oct 31 by pointofblue |
That is very true, and there is more freedom outside prisons to make video and telephone calls to loved ones and friends, of course.
The only thing I would possibly argue against it is I think a lot of people are struggling with the uncertainty - the one thing prisoners get, post sentencing, is they know the minimum period they will be locked up for. The applying of the accelator and the brake, the hope then the concern, the headlines that we could be seeing outbreaks vfor five years which I read earlier... that is going to be driving a lot of angst and the attitude of "what's the point?" |
Thing is, will it drive a number of us into doing more and more stupid things?
Thus with more of us ending up inside those places! | |
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| This doesn't make good reading on 01:33 - Oct 31 with 1329 views | pointofblue |
| This doesn't make good reading on 01:30 - Oct 31 by jeera |
Thing is, will it drive a number of us into doing more and more stupid things?
Thus with more of us ending up inside those places! |
That could be another outcome, definitely - in other words societal breakdown.
The question is what is the way out? | |
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| This doesn't make good reading on 01:35 - Oct 31 with 1327 views | jeera |
| This doesn't make good reading on 01:33 - Oct 31 by pointofblue |
That could be another outcome, definitely - in other words societal breakdown.
The question is what is the way out? |
Well I've seen a few westerns where they use dynamite or horses pulling the bars out.
Otherwise I haven't much idea to be honest. | |
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