| Developing the youngsters 08:47 - Jan 19 with 2340 views | Herbivore |
It's not really happening is it? We've got a loanee playing ahead of Woolfenden, our best CB prospect in years. We're now looking at bringing in two more loanees to play in positions where some of our talented youngsters play. El Miz comes back and doesn't even get a look in despite clearly having lots of talent and offering something different. Dobra goes from not even being on the bench to being brought into a struggling team, then gets bombed out again at the first opportunity, disappearing from the bench even. Then there's the whole preseason incident.
Does anyone trust Paul Lambert at all to make our talented kids better footballers and to integrate them into the side? In fairness young Dozzer has at least finally been given a run of games this season, but I've not seen much to suggest he's getting lots better in the role he's being asked to play and in the system we're using. If anything it's not doing him many favours. |  |
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| Developing the youngsters on 09:13 - Jan 19 with 1860 views | Keno |
it kind of makes a mockery of the "5 year plan"
Still its not like the U23's or U18's are any good is it ......... oh ......... |  |
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| Developing the youngsters on 09:17 - Jan 19 with 1845 views | Garv |
Didn't realise Toto was on loan.
Dobra has had game time and starts even when he didn't have to, and while he didn't disgrace himself by any stretch, he's not nailed down a place. El Mizouni, well who knows? He's been struggling for game time at Cambridge. It's possible he's not yet good enough, and if that's the case and we can bring in a Championship player to play instead, in theory improving our chances of finishing higher in the table, then crack on. Whats our priority here? |  |
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| Developing the youngsters on 09:18 - Jan 19 with 1841 views | itfcjoe |
No - both these new signings are to start, neither are long term. That gives us 4 loan players now whom are here for one thing only and that is to try and improve us now.
It's back to the Jewell era of pretending we are building something long term when the reality is it is just a short term tilt at promotion.
I don't necessarily think that approach is wrong - going up this year is vital - but we have the wrong man at the helm |  |
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| Developing the youngsters on 09:19 - Jan 19 with 1818 views | Keno |
| Developing the youngsters on 09:17 - Jan 19 by Garv |
Didn't realise Toto was on loan.
Dobra has had game time and starts even when he didn't have to, and while he didn't disgrace himself by any stretch, he's not nailed down a place. El Mizouni, well who knows? He's been struggling for game time at Cambridge. It's possible he's not yet good enough, and if that's the case and we can bring in a Championship player to play instead, in theory improving our chances of finishing higher in the table, then crack on. Whats our priority here? |
a right back would have been my priority | |
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| Developing the youngsters on 09:22 - Jan 19 with 1803 views | Herbivore |
| Developing the youngsters on 09:17 - Jan 19 by Garv |
Didn't realise Toto was on loan.
Dobra has had game time and starts even when he didn't have to, and while he didn't disgrace himself by any stretch, he's not nailed down a place. El Mizouni, well who knows? He's been struggling for game time at Cambridge. It's possible he's not yet good enough, and if that's the case and we can bring in a Championship player to play instead, in theory improving our chances of finishing higher in the table, then crack on. Whats our priority here? |
Open your eyes, Garv. I know you love a manager named Paul but they've been nothing but awful for our club. | |
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| Developing the youngsters on 09:25 - Jan 19 with 1788 views | Herbivore |
| Developing the youngsters on 09:18 - Jan 19 by itfcjoe |
No - both these new signings are to start, neither are long term. That gives us 4 loan players now whom are here for one thing only and that is to try and improve us now.
It's back to the Jewell era of pretending we are building something long term when the reality is it is just a short term tilt at promotion.
I don't necessarily think that approach is wrong - going up this year is vital - but we have the wrong man at the helm |
This is another thing that's rather baffling about the situation. We're led to believe that ME is sticking by Lambert because he's convinced him it's a long term project and that he's the man to deliver long term, and yet every window we seem to only make short term signings, either loans or older players. There's no sense of any wider strategy of building for the future in our transfer policy and there's no sense of it in how Lambert is developing academy players either. | |
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| Developing the youngsters on 09:27 - Jan 19 with 1764 views | judespiveyg |
| Developing the youngsters on 09:17 - Jan 19 by Garv |
Didn't realise Toto was on loan.
Dobra has had game time and starts even when he didn't have to, and while he didn't disgrace himself by any stretch, he's not nailed down a place. El Mizouni, well who knows? He's been struggling for game time at Cambridge. It's possible he's not yet good enough, and if that's the case and we can bring in a Championship player to play instead, in theory improving our chances of finishing higher in the table, then crack on. Whats our priority here? |
He means McGuiness, who isn't as good as Wolf and also isn't ours. Dobra looked great in the number 10 role in the EFL Trophy last year but has only played a handful of games on the wing since and has generally been kept out of the side by the disappointing Judge. With Harrop coming in it looks as if game time will be even harder to come by.
Dozzell's been our player of the season now he's finally been given a run of starts, same happened with Downes and Wolf last season. To get the best out of them you have to give our young players a run of at least 10 starts. I bet the same would happen with Dobra and Lankester. |  |
| I survived Ipswich 0-0 Burton |
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| Developing the youngsters on 09:40 - Jan 19 with 1684 views | Churchman |
| Developing the youngsters on 09:25 - Jan 19 by Herbivore |
This is another thing that's rather baffling about the situation. We're led to believe that ME is sticking by Lambert because he's convinced him it's a long term project and that he's the man to deliver long term, and yet every window we seem to only make short term signings, either loans or older players. There's no sense of any wider strategy of building for the future in our transfer policy and there's no sense of it in how Lambert is developing academy players either. |
There is no 5 year plan. There is no plan at all other than to reduce costs. Cohesion and direction at the club is obviously zero. While Lambert might have stumbled across the right words in his Janet and John management book, the reality is disharmony, has-beens, journeymen, short term decisions and inevitable failure accompanied by a plethora of excuses.
If our saviour was serious about developing a team, especially with the club’s academy players, he’d have got rid of ‘couldn’t organise a hiss up in a brewery’ Lambert a year ago. |  | | |
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| Developing the youngsters on 09:40 - Jan 19 with 1682 views | Garv |
| Developing the youngsters on 09:27 - Jan 19 by judespiveyg |
He means McGuiness, who isn't as good as Wolf and also isn't ours. Dobra looked great in the number 10 role in the EFL Trophy last year but has only played a handful of games on the wing since and has generally been kept out of the side by the disappointing Judge. With Harrop coming in it looks as if game time will be even harder to come by.
Dozzell's been our player of the season now he's finally been given a run of starts, same happened with Downes and Wolf last season. To get the best out of them you have to give our young players a run of at least 10 starts. I bet the same would happen with Dobra and Lankester. |
I know he meant McGuinness, but that doesn't make sense considering he and LW had been playing alongside each other until the last game when Toto replaced LW.
Good points regarding game time. The point remains though that if Harrop is better than what we already have on our books then he plays. | |
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| Developing the youngsters on 09:43 - Jan 19 with 1644 views | Keno |
| Developing the youngsters on 09:40 - Jan 19 by Garv |
I know he meant McGuinness, but that doesn't make sense considering he and LW had been playing alongside each other until the last game when Toto replaced LW.
Good points regarding game time. The point remains though that if Harrop is better than what we already have on our books then he plays. |
until he gets injured, which as a injury prone player is highly likely
Still say we'd be better off with a right back
and a half decent manager | |
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| Developing the youngsters on 09:44 - Jan 19 with 1650 views | Fixed_It |
Bottom line is we need to go up this year. IF the player(s) brought in increase our chances of doing so then it must be the right thing to do, irrespective of 'developing the younsters'. Unfortunately, the fact that we are hovering around the play-offs and not cruising at the top means that we cannot rely on the youngsters if we can bring in better. People are looking for any reason to slate the manager, but he would get slated either way. |  |
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| Developing the youngsters on 09:44 - Jan 19 with 1637 views | davblue |
| Developing the youngsters on 09:25 - Jan 19 by Herbivore |
This is another thing that's rather baffling about the situation. We're led to believe that ME is sticking by Lambert because he's convinced him it's a long term project and that he's the man to deliver long term, and yet every window we seem to only make short term signings, either loans or older players. There's no sense of any wider strategy of building for the future in our transfer policy and there's no sense of it in how Lambert is developing academy players either. |
Window to window. Short term signings in January, been the same for the last 10 years now.
But 5 point plan.....
1- don't know what we are doing
2- don't know what we are doing
3- don't know what we are doing
4- don't know what we are doing
5 - don't know what we are doing |  | | |
| Developing the youngsters on 09:46 - Jan 19 with 1619 views | davblue |
| Developing the youngsters on 09:44 - Jan 19 by Fixed_It |
Bottom line is we need to go up this year. IF the player(s) brought in increase our chances of doing so then it must be the right thing to do, irrespective of 'developing the younsters'. Unfortunately, the fact that we are hovering around the play-offs and not cruising at the top means that we cannot rely on the youngsters if we can bring in better. People are looking for any reason to slate the manager, but he would get slated either way. |
If it is a success then it's good all told but it also endorses Evans' approach which will never be a way of long term success.
Whether he changes his approach if we fail again, i just don't see it. | | | |
| Developing the youngsters on 09:52 - Jan 19 with 1583 views | jayessess |
The current management regime's inability to develop players is absolutely glaring. I don't think you could name a single player who has come into the first team and improved over time. At best you could point to a few younger players who came in at a relatively high level and stayed there, but even then we've had more regression than progression.
Who knows, maybe Harrop and Thomas come in and they're so far above the normal ability level for this division that we can't help but win with them in the side. But I think the questions about whether Lambert can (a) develop first team players or (b) set up an under-strength team to compete well are already settled. |  |
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| Developing the youngsters on 10:05 - Jan 19 with 1532 views | MrTown |
Because he doesn’t trust the kids, he wants ready made players, because his job is on the line.
Not good for us, not good for the kids, but that is the truth of the matter at Playford Road. |  |
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| Developing the youngsters on 10:06 - Jan 19 with 1531 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Developing the youngsters on 09:44 - Jan 19 by Fixed_It |
Bottom line is we need to go up this year. IF the player(s) brought in increase our chances of doing so then it must be the right thing to do, irrespective of 'developing the younsters'. Unfortunately, the fact that we are hovering around the play-offs and not cruising at the top means that we cannot rely on the youngsters if we can bring in better. People are looking for any reason to slate the manager, but he would get slated either way. |
Bottom line, should we in fact gain promotion, is we don’t want to start a Championship season with Lambert in charge. |  |
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| Developing the youngsters on 10:10 - Jan 19 with 1507 views | clive_baker |
It's a balance between developing the younger players and having the most competitive side possible. When they get a chance, like anyone else they need to take it. Gibbs came in against Charlton and went missing, it was too much for him. I think the bigger question there is why Lambert thought it right to throw him into central midfield for a game like that, especially alongside McGavin. McGavin has played more than anyone would've perhaps expected.
Lankester has had numerous chances, and not taken them. He's arguably been our worst player this season. Drinan has had chances, and done some nice bits but he looks miles short really, especially when you see the impact and goal threat someone like Norwood has when he's on the pitch. He's found himself back on the bench which feels about right.
Dobra has started 3 of the last 5. When he's played well such as at Plymouth, he's kept his place.
Woolfenden has mostly started when fit, I think Saturday was the first game he didn't in a long time. El Miz is the one I feel a little sorry for, but again he's gone out on loan to L2 and not started regularly, which might tell us something. I can't think of too many really strong performances from the younger lads this season, and certainly no examples where they've been binned off following one that really felt unjust.
For me the issue is less about the absolute chances these young players have had, and more the man management of it all. To your point no, I don't think Lambert and his team will develop these players particularly. I certainly don't trust Lambert in the respect of man management either. A proper manager worth their salt would manage the expectations, explain the decisions, not just bin someone off to the ressies. I know for a fact the communication is dire, and that's senior players saying that.
I do think for all the stick some of our senior players get, there's really a world of difference between pros like that and some of these younger lads though, who are still very wet behind the ears. We've also got a lot of them, and realistically we can probably only accommodate 1 or 2 per game. We're spreading the chances thin across a large number of young players, ideally we would probably have 2 or 3 obvious horses to back, and involve them regularly from the bench. It's the sporadic nature of it I don't get. From nothing, to starting, to back into the abyss.
Ultimately, we need to go up this season. We've got 26 games and we need to get it right, and select the side most capable of winning them. If we had to pick a team to play a playoff final tomorrow, I wouldn't imagine many people would have any of those youngsters in it. |  |
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| Developing the youngsters on 10:19 - Jan 19 with 1468 views | Keno |
| Developing the youngsters on 10:10 - Jan 19 by clive_baker |
It's a balance between developing the younger players and having the most competitive side possible. When they get a chance, like anyone else they need to take it. Gibbs came in against Charlton and went missing, it was too much for him. I think the bigger question there is why Lambert thought it right to throw him into central midfield for a game like that, especially alongside McGavin. McGavin has played more than anyone would've perhaps expected.
Lankester has had numerous chances, and not taken them. He's arguably been our worst player this season. Drinan has had chances, and done some nice bits but he looks miles short really, especially when you see the impact and goal threat someone like Norwood has when he's on the pitch. He's found himself back on the bench which feels about right.
Dobra has started 3 of the last 5. When he's played well such as at Plymouth, he's kept his place.
Woolfenden has mostly started when fit, I think Saturday was the first game he didn't in a long time. El Miz is the one I feel a little sorry for, but again he's gone out on loan to L2 and not started regularly, which might tell us something. I can't think of too many really strong performances from the younger lads this season, and certainly no examples where they've been binned off following one that really felt unjust.
For me the issue is less about the absolute chances these young players have had, and more the man management of it all. To your point no, I don't think Lambert and his team will develop these players particularly. I certainly don't trust Lambert in the respect of man management either. A proper manager worth their salt would manage the expectations, explain the decisions, not just bin someone off to the ressies. I know for a fact the communication is dire, and that's senior players saying that.
I do think for all the stick some of our senior players get, there's really a world of difference between pros like that and some of these younger lads though, who are still very wet behind the ears. We've also got a lot of them, and realistically we can probably only accommodate 1 or 2 per game. We're spreading the chances thin across a large number of young players, ideally we would probably have 2 or 3 obvious horses to back, and involve them regularly from the bench. It's the sporadic nature of it I don't get. From nothing, to starting, to back into the abyss.
Ultimately, we need to go up this season. We've got 26 games and we need to get it right, and select the side most capable of winning them. If we had to pick a team to play a playoff final tomorrow, I wouldn't imagine many people would have any of those youngsters in it. |
"Ultimately, we need to go up this season"
Yes, we know that and the way to achieve that will be appoint a half decent manager
the proposed player changed are simply p1ssing in the wind | |
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| Developing the youngsters on 10:24 - Jan 19 with 1446 views | clive_baker |
| Developing the youngsters on 10:19 - Jan 19 by Keno |
"Ultimately, we need to go up this season"
Yes, we know that and the way to achieve that will be appoint a half decent manager
the proposed player changed are simply p1ssing in the wind |
Wouldn't hold your breath on that one.
If we do get a manager change, I imagine it'll be at the stage it's too late to go up.
I think the chances of getting both are slim. Most likely scenario for me is we spoon up the next few months, finish about 7th or 8th and Lambert is sacked when it's mathematically impossible to go up. I imagine some sort of break clause would exist on that basis, limiting his payoff. | |
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| Developing the youngsters on 10:28 - Jan 19 with 1429 views | Keno |
| Developing the youngsters on 10:24 - Jan 19 by clive_baker |
Wouldn't hold your breath on that one.
If we do get a manager change, I imagine it'll be at the stage it's too late to go up.
I think the chances of getting both are slim. Most likely scenario for me is we spoon up the next few months, finish about 7th or 8th and Lambert is sacked when it's mathematically impossible to go up. I imagine some sort of break clause would exist on that basis, limiting his payoff. |
I fear the season will go the way you predict, which is a 2nd hugely wasted opportunity | |
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| Developing the youngsters on 10:31 - Jan 19 with 1421 views | Basuco |
In general I think that youngsters are not developing as they should, at many clubs in English football, in the past any player in an England U18 game would be a first team regular, also they would be playing in a reserve side along side men, against men. If first team players did not start a league game they played for the reserves. Every club in every league is success driven, it must be so much harder for youngsters today to get the experience in competitive games to continue progressing to make a living as a pro footballer at a decent level. But that is not exactly the point you were making, but the issue is wider than just ITFC. Although to contradict all that Bish, Downs and Dozzell looked really good in midfield on Saturday and showed us what we have been missing and don't forget Bish and Downs will improve as they get more games in the coming weeks following their injury break. |  | | |
| Developing the youngsters on 10:35 - Jan 19 with 1408 views | itfcjoe |
| Developing the youngsters on 10:24 - Jan 19 by clive_baker |
Wouldn't hold your breath on that one.
If we do get a manager change, I imagine it'll be at the stage it's too late to go up.
I think the chances of getting both are slim. Most likely scenario for me is we spoon up the next few months, finish about 7th or 8th and Lambert is sacked when it's mathematically impossible to go up. I imagine some sort of break clause would exist on that basis, limiting his payoff. |
I think if we don't win any of the next 3, we'll have drifted so far from the top 6 in that time. There is basically a full card of fixtures tonight so the table could be looking bleak in 2-3 games time | |
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| Developing the youngsters on 10:46 - Jan 19 with 1350 views | reusersfreekicks |
| Developing the youngsters on 09:44 - Jan 19 by Fixed_It |
Bottom line is we need to go up this year. IF the player(s) brought in increase our chances of doing so then it must be the right thing to do, irrespective of 'developing the younsters'. Unfortunately, the fact that we are hovering around the play-offs and not cruising at the top means that we cannot rely on the youngsters if we can bring in better. People are looking for any reason to slate the manager, but he would get slated either way. |
The reason we are not doing better is not down to the quality, or lack thereof, in our playing staff. It's down to being poorly, coached, poorly prepared and poorly organised. We have a massive squad. Getting more loan players in is pointless |  | | |
| Developing the youngsters on 10:47 - Jan 19 with 1345 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Developing the youngsters on 10:35 - Jan 19 by itfcjoe |
I think if we don't win any of the next 3, we'll have drifted so far from the top 6 in that time. There is basically a full card of fixtures tonight so the table could be looking bleak in 2-3 games time |
This evening we could find ourselves down to 10th. Two of the three teams who move above us we are due to play in the next three games.
Unless we win those games we will be cut adrift and stuck in mid table. Common sense dictates Lambert had three games to turn it around. Reality however is even if we lose all three Lambert will be given more time to allow any new additions time to make a difference,
When it comes to creating reasons why he shouldn’t go now Lambert is tactically good. | |
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| Developing the youngsters on 10:49 - Jan 19 with 1325 views | itfcjoe |
| Developing the youngsters on 10:47 - Jan 19 by Pinewoodblue |
This evening we could find ourselves down to 10th. Two of the three teams who move above us we are due to play in the next three games.
Unless we win those games we will be cut adrift and stuck in mid table. Common sense dictates Lambert had three games to turn it around. Reality however is even if we lose all three Lambert will be given more time to allow any new additions time to make a difference,
When it comes to creating reasons why he shouldn’t go now Lambert is tactically good. |
I don't think that is the reality, I think failure to win the next 2 games, and 6-7 points of the top 6 will be too much for him to continue.
The fact Evans is still chucking money at signings shows he wants/needs to get out of this division - if we can't beat a good side at home and the table looks bad then he'll have to act | |
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