| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively 10:41 - Jan 31 with 3608 views | J2BLUE |
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-rejected-contracts-and-a-hollywood-movie-how
The government really have got this one right. Even Matt Hancock comes out of this looking good. The Tories asked experts their opinions on what would be problematic and then fixed it as soon as possible. Amazing what happens when they listen to people who know what they are talking about. Sadly I doubt they will make a habit of it and they’ll go back to playing to their base and the corrupt self interest they are famous for.
Credit where it’s due though. |  |
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| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 10:45 - Jan 31 with 2994 views | BlueBadger |
Sadly, it's taken 100,000+ deaths and multiple scandals, plus billions wasted on contracts for their incompetent mates for them to realise it.
I don't think there's that much credit to be taken. I strongly suspect that if they could have found a way for their mates in the Efficient Private Sector to roll out vaccines, they would have.
And are probably still wondering how they can. [Post edited 31 Jan 2021 13:10]
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| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 10:48 - Jan 31 with 2958 views | m14_blue |
We’ve been so slow and reactive throughout this whole mess it’s been painful.
This is an example of what happens when you approach a potential issue proactively and act decisively.
Well done to them. |  | | |
| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 10:50 - Jan 31 with 2945 views | footers |
| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 10:45 - Jan 31 by BlueBadger |
Sadly, it's taken 100,000+ deaths and multiple scandals, plus billions wasted on contracts for their incompetent mates for them to realise it.
I don't think there's that much credit to be taken. I strongly suspect that if they could have found a way for their mates in the Efficient Private Sector to roll out vaccines, they would have.
And are probably still wondering how they can. [Post edited 31 Jan 2021 13:10]
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If Serco et al got the jab contract, think I'd become an antivaxxer! |  |
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| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 10:58 - Jan 31 with 2925 views | BlueBadger |
| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 10:50 - Jan 31 by footers |
If Serco et al got the jab contract, think I'd become an antivaxxer! |
And we'd probably be talking about well the EU were rolling out vaccines! | |
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| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 11:05 - Jan 31 with 2911 views | J2BLUE |
| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 10:45 - Jan 31 by BlueBadger |
Sadly, it's taken 100,000+ deaths and multiple scandals, plus billions wasted on contracts for their incompetent mates for them to realise it.
I don't think there's that much credit to be taken. I strongly suspect that if they could have found a way for their mates in the Efficient Private Sector to roll out vaccines, they would have.
And are probably still wondering how they can. [Post edited 31 Jan 2021 13:10]
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These were decisions being made months ago and they were being proactive. Of course there are many parts of the pandemic response they've got completely wrong but vaccines they have done right. | |
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| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 11:07 - Jan 31 with 2903 views | Swansea_Blue |
Interesting read indeed. To go with that, there’s a thread from a guy involved in the manufacturing process that’s worth a quick look.
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| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 11:08 - Jan 31 with 2900 views | pointofblue |
| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 11:05 - Jan 31 by J2BLUE |
These were decisions being made months ago and they were being proactive. Of course there are many parts of the pandemic response they've got completely wrong but vaccines they have done right. |
My only thought is were they so focused on getting the vaccine process right that everything else slipped under the radar, causing the devastation and heartbreak we’re now suffering from? It’s great they seem to have got this right - for now - but it’s come at a huge and unnecessary cost. | |
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| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 11:14 - Jan 31 with 2876 views | J2BLUE |
| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 11:08 - Jan 31 by pointofblue |
My only thought is were they so focused on getting the vaccine process right that everything else slipped under the radar, causing the devastation and heartbreak we’re now suffering from? It’s great they seem to have got this right - for now - but it’s come at a huge and unnecessary cost. |
It's possible. Will be an interesting period for history students to look back on. | |
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| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 11:47 - Jan 31 with 2815 views | Ryorry |
| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 10:45 - Jan 31 by BlueBadger |
Sadly, it's taken 100,000+ deaths and multiple scandals, plus billions wasted on contracts for their incompetent mates for them to realise it.
I don't think there's that much credit to be taken. I strongly suspect that if they could have found a way for their mates in the Efficient Private Sector to roll out vaccines, they would have.
And are probably still wondering how they can. [Post edited 31 Jan 2021 13:10]
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Posted this a couple of weeks ago -
https://bylinetimes.com/2021/01/04/vaccine-minister-nadhim-zahawi-family-set-up- [Post edited 31 Jan 2021 11:48]
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| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 11:57 - Jan 31 with 2779 views | eireblue |
It is good. No doubt.
But Matt Hancock seems to be have been somewhat influenced by a TV show and fear of Trump.
The plaudits should be for the scientific and big pharma industries.
In some ways, they actually took a leaf out of Sheepshanks approach, and did the correct thing.
Assume you are going to hit a target, work backwards, what do you need to hit the last target, okay then what do you need to do before that, and so on.
Or in other words, competent project management. |  | | |
| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 12:04 - Jan 31 with 2740 views | J2BLUE |
| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 11:57 - Jan 31 by eireblue |
It is good. No doubt.
But Matt Hancock seems to be have been somewhat influenced by a TV show and fear of Trump.
The plaudits should be for the scientific and big pharma industries.
In some ways, they actually took a leaf out of Sheepshanks approach, and did the correct thing.
Assume you are going to hit a target, work backwards, what do you need to hit the last target, okay then what do you need to do before that, and so on.
Or in other words, competent project management. |
He won't be the first person to get some food for thought from a work of fiction.
Fear of Trump was perfectly rational. I remember posting on here questioning if Trump would allow exports from the US and apparently they aren't, even to Canada. So it's perfectly fair. | |
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| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 12:39 - Jan 31 with 2688 views | Churchman |
| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 11:08 - Jan 31 by pointofblue |
My only thought is were they so focused on getting the vaccine process right that everything else slipped under the radar, causing the devastation and heartbreak we’re now suffering from? It’s great they seem to have got this right - for now - but it’s come at a huge and unnecessary cost. |
In terms of right and wrong, I don’t think anything has slipped under the radar. I think there has been an awful lot of poor decision making and some good. I fully understand the complexities of making these decisions are enormous, unless you are looking in hindsight but some things that went wrong shouldn’t have.
At the time, I felt the first lockdown was a week too late. In early September, it was obvious which way the infection trends were going and lockdown again should have come earlier. The virulent U.K. variant was something that could not be planned for. I failed to understand its concern about giving the nation a good Christmas and I felt far more attention should have been given to screening people coming into the country earlier. Centralised track and trace was a massive mistake. Not firing Cummings was a disaster because it ripped up public faith in BJs crew. PPE? Don’t know enough about that.
The Nightingale hospitals were a great decision. Not joining EU procurement for anything especially ventilators, good decision. Not falling in line with EU on vaccine approval and procurement against massive opposition from ‘experts’ and opposition was a good decision. Employing a specialist in Kate Bingham to do the deals against a lot of criticism: good choice. They could easily have hidden behind the EU on that one. The MHRA? Good job to date as is the use of army, nhs, chemists, volunteers, churches etc etc. Well done them!
In learning terms, the first two major ones for me are proper pandemic planning (I think there was an it’ll never happen to us approach before). We can do this well, as we have done with terrorist incident planning. The other is NHS England. It is not fit for purpose as has to be reformed or replaced. |  | | |
| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 12:49 - Jan 31 with 2662 views | giant_stow |
| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 11:57 - Jan 31 by eireblue |
It is good. No doubt.
But Matt Hancock seems to be have been somewhat influenced by a TV show and fear of Trump.
The plaudits should be for the scientific and big pharma industries.
In some ways, they actually took a leaf out of Sheepshanks approach, and did the correct thing.
Assume you are going to hit a target, work backwards, what do you need to hit the last target, okay then what do you need to do before that, and so on.
Or in other words, competent project management. |
You've definately got a point, but I don't think solely crediting the manufactures explains the difference between dose delivery in the UK and EU. |  |
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| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 13:15 - Jan 31 with 2621 views | factual_blue |
| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 11:08 - Jan 31 by pointofblue |
My only thought is were they so focused on getting the vaccine process right that everything else slipped under the radar, causing the devastation and heartbreak we’re now suffering from? It’s great they seem to have got this right - for now - but it’s come at a huge and unnecessary cost. |
There isn't the same political calculus for a rollout programme. Nobody would have dissented from the view that you get it rolled out in the quickest manner possible, taking into account the need to set up supply chains, identify venues etc etc.
The party of big business, however, has all sorts of issues with getting businesses to shut and all the other ingredients of a lockdown. They merely listen to, rather than follow, the science because doing exactly what the science said isn't politically or philosophically acceptable to them. |  |
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| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 13:27 - Jan 31 with 2584 views | clive_baker |
Yeah, it does feel like we've done really well in that respect. Had we locked down earlier back in Feb 2020, not turfed Covid patients out of hospitals back into care homes like releasing a fox into a Chicken coup, not ballsed up schooling and results, not seen senior Tory figures flounting the rules and starring down the barrel of a camera insulting our intelligence with bare faced lies, and not again been slow to go into subsequent lockdowns for fear of being the guy who cancelled Christmas (while the rest of Europe was tightening restrictions) I would reluctantly be applauding our government and it's handling of the pandemic. It's so regrettable that 100k+ people have died, rather than perhaps what could've been significantly less, and is significantly less on a per capita basis in comparable countries across Europe.
The whole vaccine development investment, initiatives to prop up the economy and protect jobs, vaccine procurement and roll out has been good though, I think it's important to be balanced.
On balance I think the government have been a shambles and failed us. Still, looking forward we just need to hunker down and get this jab in arms ASAP.
Hang in there people, I think we're through the worst of it now. |  |
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| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 13:32 - Jan 31 with 2573 views | gordon |
Yes, we'd placed a lot of faith in vaccines and invested a lot in vaccines early on because we didn't have a clue how to manage the pandemic, and we'll get some benefit from that approach over the next few months. |  | | |
| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 13:59 - Jan 31 with 2538 views | Ace_High1 |
| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 13:27 - Jan 31 by clive_baker |
Yeah, it does feel like we've done really well in that respect. Had we locked down earlier back in Feb 2020, not turfed Covid patients out of hospitals back into care homes like releasing a fox into a Chicken coup, not ballsed up schooling and results, not seen senior Tory figures flounting the rules and starring down the barrel of a camera insulting our intelligence with bare faced lies, and not again been slow to go into subsequent lockdowns for fear of being the guy who cancelled Christmas (while the rest of Europe was tightening restrictions) I would reluctantly be applauding our government and it's handling of the pandemic. It's so regrettable that 100k+ people have died, rather than perhaps what could've been significantly less, and is significantly less on a per capita basis in comparable countries across Europe.
The whole vaccine development investment, initiatives to prop up the economy and protect jobs, vaccine procurement and roll out has been good though, I think it's important to be balanced.
On balance I think the government have been a shambles and failed us. Still, looking forward we just need to hunker down and get this jab in arms ASAP.
Hang in there people, I think we're through the worst of it now. |
Well said Clive, that sums it up pretty well.
Vaccines going well, the rest we have been a shambles and it was so avoidable as we could see around the world what was coming (Italy, Spain) and even had examples of hoe to do it well (Taiwan, Australia, NZ), but we still acted like it was all a big surprise that the virus was here. |  | | |
| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 14:00 - Jan 31 with 2537 views | eireblue |
| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 12:49 - Jan 31 by giant_stow |
You've definately got a point, but I don't think solely crediting the manufactures explains the difference between dose delivery in the UK and EU. |
No it doesn’t.
But, I would suggest it is a degree of spin, to suggest that it is due to the intelligence and foresight of Matt Hancock or others in Government that the vaccine has been such a success.
Matt and people in the Government have been consistently reacting to events, and not learning from mistakes. E.g. the approach to Christmas when a lockdown was failing, and then the subsequent last minute change, is very similar to the lead up and actions of the first lockdown.
The mistakes of track and trace, e.g. only using central resource, then withdrawing, and subsequent mistakes. Rather than use existing local teams that exist to track down outbreaks of food poisoning etc.
The difference is that Matt watched a TV show and was a bit panicky about Trump, but the only people that can actually deliver, aren’t friends next door and companies that have existed for 3 days, but actual proper large organisations that apply a degree of rigour and science.
Just imagine if the vaccines hadn’t been developed so fast, what would the look like, still under the care of Matt and Boris.
So all due respect to scientists, big pharma, and proper project management. And an acknowledgment that panicky people can sometimes not mess things up
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| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 14:19 - Jan 31 with 2503 views | Churchman |
| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 14:00 - Jan 31 by eireblue |
No it doesn’t.
But, I would suggest it is a degree of spin, to suggest that it is due to the intelligence and foresight of Matt Hancock or others in Government that the vaccine has been such a success.
Matt and people in the Government have been consistently reacting to events, and not learning from mistakes. E.g. the approach to Christmas when a lockdown was failing, and then the subsequent last minute change, is very similar to the lead up and actions of the first lockdown.
The mistakes of track and trace, e.g. only using central resource, then withdrawing, and subsequent mistakes. Rather than use existing local teams that exist to track down outbreaks of food poisoning etc.
The difference is that Matt watched a TV show and was a bit panicky about Trump, but the only people that can actually deliver, aren’t friends next door and companies that have existed for 3 days, but actual proper large organisations that apply a degree of rigour and science.
Just imagine if the vaccines hadn’t been developed so fast, what would the look like, still under the care of Matt and Boris.
So all due respect to scientists, big pharma, and proper project management. And an acknowledgment that panicky people can sometimes not mess things up
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Of course it’s not due to the intelligence and foresight of Hancock and co. But they played their part in that Government sets policy; others implement it either as employees or as contractors.
From what I’ve read (and I am cautious about that), it was Hancock that pushed for the Oxford mob to not work with Merck, an American company, for fear that if a vaccine was developed, Trump/America would hoover up the vaccine first. And indeed they are doing just that with Biden showing no sign of changing that policy. America first, which interestingly few people criticise.
Allegedly, it was Hancock (or more likely one of his team) that suggested AstraZeneca to protect the supply chain. Given the EUs efforts, a very wise decision. It’s important to be balanced on this and that a proper independent review takes place in the future of what happened including the actions of governments, companies and people to ensure if this happens again, there’s a chance better decisions are made. | | | |
| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 14:50 - Jan 31 with 2472 views | gordon |
| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 13:15 - Jan 31 by factual_blue |
There isn't the same political calculus for a rollout programme. Nobody would have dissented from the view that you get it rolled out in the quickest manner possible, taking into account the need to set up supply chains, identify venues etc etc.
The party of big business, however, has all sorts of issues with getting businesses to shut and all the other ingredients of a lockdown. They merely listen to, rather than follow, the science because doing exactly what the science said isn't politically or philosophically acceptable to them. |
That's it - there was very little political judgement or decision-making involved in vaccine roll-out - the problems have all come from the fact that they are a) poor at considering/weighing up evidence/expert opinion b) scared of making the wrong decision c) overly influenced by business interests and d) overly concerned with public opinion rather than efficacious policy.
But when it comes to handing out eye-wateringly massive contracts to big businesses that could potentially 'solve' the pandemic (not saying that vaccines won't basically solve the problem), they're the right bunch. | | | |
| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 15:01 - Jan 31 with 2444 views | longtimefan |
| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 14:50 - Jan 31 by gordon |
That's it - there was very little political judgement or decision-making involved in vaccine roll-out - the problems have all come from the fact that they are a) poor at considering/weighing up evidence/expert opinion b) scared of making the wrong decision c) overly influenced by business interests and d) overly concerned with public opinion rather than efficacious policy.
But when it comes to handing out eye-wateringly massive contracts to big businesses that could potentially 'solve' the pandemic (not saying that vaccines won't basically solve the problem), they're the right bunch. |
Would agree with much of that, but does appear that it was a political decision to force a change of manufacturer from US based to UK based one that has made a material difference to the availability of vaccine doses and hence the success of the rollout | | | |
| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 15:08 - Jan 31 with 2430 views | BlueBadger |
| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 13:15 - Jan 31 by factual_blue |
There isn't the same political calculus for a rollout programme. Nobody would have dissented from the view that you get it rolled out in the quickest manner possible, taking into account the need to set up supply chains, identify venues etc etc.
The party of big business, however, has all sorts of issues with getting businesses to shut and all the other ingredients of a lockdown. They merely listen to, rather than follow, the science because doing exactly what the science said isn't politically or philosophically acceptable to them. |
Fast vaccine rollout of course, feeds into their whole 'get back to work and make our mates some money, you idle shirkers' thing.
Saving the lives of the elderly and clinically vulnerable, less so. | |
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| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 15:08 - Jan 31 with 2426 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 14:00 - Jan 31 by eireblue |
No it doesn’t.
But, I would suggest it is a degree of spin, to suggest that it is due to the intelligence and foresight of Matt Hancock or others in Government that the vaccine has been such a success.
Matt and people in the Government have been consistently reacting to events, and not learning from mistakes. E.g. the approach to Christmas when a lockdown was failing, and then the subsequent last minute change, is very similar to the lead up and actions of the first lockdown.
The mistakes of track and trace, e.g. only using central resource, then withdrawing, and subsequent mistakes. Rather than use existing local teams that exist to track down outbreaks of food poisoning etc.
The difference is that Matt watched a TV show and was a bit panicky about Trump, but the only people that can actually deliver, aren’t friends next door and companies that have existed for 3 days, but actual proper large organisations that apply a degree of rigour and science.
Just imagine if the vaccines hadn’t been developed so fast, what would the look like, still under the care of Matt and Boris.
So all due respect to scientists, big pharma, and proper project management. And an acknowledgment that panicky people can sometimes not mess things up
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Top pro Matt Hancock spinning from lefty Labour supporting editor of the New Statesman.
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/health/2021/01/matt-hancock-understands-un
Yiu know that your criticise politicians when they get it wrong and congratulate them when they get it right. You won’t go over to the dark side by being balanced. |  |
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| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 15:09 - Jan 31 with 2427 views | Churchman |
| Fascinating read about how we were able to roll the vaccine out effectively on 14:50 - Jan 31 by gordon |
That's it - there was very little political judgement or decision-making involved in vaccine roll-out - the problems have all come from the fact that they are a) poor at considering/weighing up evidence/expert opinion b) scared of making the wrong decision c) overly influenced by business interests and d) overly concerned with public opinion rather than efficacious policy.
But when it comes to handing out eye-wateringly massive contracts to big businesses that could potentially 'solve' the pandemic (not saying that vaccines won't basically solve the problem), they're the right bunch. |
I have to disagree with ‘there was very little political judgement or decision-making involved in vaccine roll-out’. I think amounts enormous of it was required in vaccine procurement and roll out. Just look at the mess the EU have got into trying to do exactly the same thing.
There was enormous political judgement and decision making in setting up track and trace too. The government deserve a right pasting for that dogs dinner, which was doomed to fail along with many other poor decisions. But in vaccine procurement/roll out to date, they deserve some credit. | | | |
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