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Just like UKIP (but without the xenophobia and fake news about EU) there’s value in outflanking Westminster political parties despite having no real chance to win power at that level. But they can certainly lose the Hartlepool by-election for a moribund and clueless Labour. And hopefully provide some proper representation for the people of Liverpool.
If it can help drive a more devolved approach to the English regions and better political representation then NIP will have done a great job.
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Nice to see this gaining some traction on 10:38 - Mar 25 with 1346 views
Nice to see this gaining some traction on 09:55 - Mar 25 by footers
Shown an interest in developing policies instead of meetings with PR men about how to be the best flag-shagger? Shown any sort of passion and desire in light of government corruption, cronyism and massive incompetence?
Sorry, but if people want to play this game then it works the other way as well. Starmer is useless. He has barely moved the needle in terms of polling and has set out no positive leftist vision for the UK after a whole year of leading the party. It's nowhere near good enough.
You didn't mention the pandemic once in your reply, which I think is revealing. The context is so different, it might as well be another era.
Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
Nice to see this gaining some traction on 09:41 - Mar 25 by Darth_Koont
When Brexit was the defining issue yes. It stayed comparatively firm in 2017.
I'm sorry DK but I've lived in the North almost all of my life and Corbyn was an absolutely enormous issue for Labour up here, almost as big as Brexit.
It looks increasingly like you have a point about Starmer but we also need to look objectively the Corbyn years if Labour are ever to successfully achieve a more progressive country. Denying and excusing the failures of those years will just lead to them being repeated.
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Nice to see this gaining some traction on 10:41 - Mar 25 with 1342 views
Nice to see this gaining some traction on 10:02 - Mar 25 by chicoazul
One day someone will work out that a socially and morally conservative, patriotic, unionist, traditional, Christian party that leans left economically and right on law and order will sweep up all those old Labour votes looking for a home right across Britain.
think theres some truth to that, for what its worth.
Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
Nice to see this gaining some traction on 10:29 - Mar 25 by footers
It would be wonderfully naieve if you weren't a bloke pushing 50. I remembered because it was so at odds with what you'd been so apparently passionate about for more than a year, just like Russell Brand all over again :)
Hate to break it to you but you're not actually worth a Dolly 10-pager.
Trust the process. Trust Phil.
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Nice to see this gaining some traction on 10:48 - Mar 25 with 1327 views
Am I missing something with the Liverpool outcry? Starmer can't be seen to prop up a council which has had several of its members arrested for corruption, it would be complete and utter madness.
As for this new party, if the left vote is split that's five to ten more years of Tory rule. Don't give me that b*llocks that Johnson and Starmer are "exactly the same" either as it's complete nonsense. The real truth is hardcore Corbyn supporters still can't accept that he failed and that Labour has moved towards the centre again. I voted for Corbyn to be leader first time around and did campaign work for Labour over the last three General Elections, at this point I just want the Tories out, but this factionalist bulls**t makes that less of a possibility by the day.
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Nice to see this gaining some traction on 10:48 - Mar 25 with 1323 views
Nice to see this gaining some traction on 10:30 - Mar 25 by Darth_Koont
I think the SNP filling the void before he even became leader put paid to that.
And for someone who appealed to primarily urban middle class base, he spent an awful lot of time banging on about workers’ and their rights, poverty and other systemic inequalities. Almost as if that could be a vote-winner across whole swathes of the country.
It’s undeniable that most of that was undermined by a simplistic Brexiteer message from the Tories and by the most relentless media campaign against him to sway Remainers. Neither of those had much basis in reality or indeed policy but fighting on reality and policy wouldn’t have worked.
Except it wasn't a vote winner across the country, it was the opposite. He lost seats to the Tories that nobody could ever imagine would be won by the Tories. Of course Brexit was a significant factor but Labour weren't really helped by Corbyn being pretty useless. He didn't connect with those people whose rights he said he cared about. I'm not sure he spent that much time engaging them either, most of his rallies were attended by students and young middle class professionals.
He showed a failure of leadership throughout on Brexit as well. You can't just pin it entirely on the media. Of course they are influential, but nobody outside a small core of students and educated middle class folk believed in Corbyn. Nobody really knew where he stood on issues that mattered to them, particularly on Brexit. To lose the trust of both leavers and remainers really takes some doing.
Nice to see this gaining some traction on 10:48 - Mar 25 by GunnsAirkick
Am I missing something with the Liverpool outcry? Starmer can't be seen to prop up a council which has had several of its members arrested for corruption, it would be complete and utter madness.
As for this new party, if the left vote is split that's five to ten more years of Tory rule. Don't give me that b*llocks that Johnson and Starmer are "exactly the same" either as it's complete nonsense. The real truth is hardcore Corbyn supporters still can't accept that he failed and that Labour has moved towards the centre again. I voted for Corbyn to be leader first time around and did campaign work for Labour over the last three General Elections, at this point I just want the Tories out, but this factionalist bulls**t makes that less of a possibility by the day.
The Labour left are behaving exactly as they've spent the last 5 years accusing the Labour centre of acting. Stirring up division, personal attacks. It's pathetic. There has generally always been a solid majority of the electroate in this country that doesn't want the Tories but they always win because they have few enough principles to set them aside and focus on winning and maintaining power and shoring up their minority base. Meanwhile the left and the left leaning centrists would rather bicker with each other over ideological purity whilst the country goes to sh!t under decades of Tory rule. Well done, lads.
Nice to see this gaining some traction on 10:40 - Mar 25 by m14_blue
I'm sorry DK but I've lived in the North almost all of my life and Corbyn was an absolutely enormous issue for Labour up here, almost as big as Brexit.
It looks increasingly like you have a point about Starmer but we also need to look objectively the Corbyn years if Labour are ever to successfully achieve a more progressive country. Denying and excusing the failures of those years will just lead to them being repeated.
I certainly won’t deny the perception of Corbyn was a massive issue. But that was off the back of a ridiculously OTT demonisation of him with arguably the most damage coming from those who were meant to be largely supportive in the media and the Labour Party itself.
If we’re going to have such an appalling, knee-jerk reaction against politicians and policies that address change and overdue structural issues then we’re screwed anyway. Scotland will leave, Ireland might unify and the remainder of the UK will be stuck in a permanent culture war and blame game.
So in the context of the OP, I’m all for political activities and movements that subvert a bankrupt and empty status quo. And perhaps divert us from this direction of travel.
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Nice to see this gaining some traction on 12:05 - Mar 25 with 1250 views
Nice to see this gaining some traction on 10:56 - Mar 25 by Herbivore
The Labour left are behaving exactly as they've spent the last 5 years accusing the Labour centre of acting. Stirring up division, personal attacks. It's pathetic. There has generally always been a solid majority of the electroate in this country that doesn't want the Tories but they always win because they have few enough principles to set them aside and focus on winning and maintaining power and shoring up their minority base. Meanwhile the left and the left leaning centrists would rather bicker with each other over ideological purity whilst the country goes to sh!t under decades of Tory rule. Well done, lads.
That’s your reading of it. I see the leadership acting far more factionally now. And I see the mostly centre-right PLP and its allied media nodding along and still punching harder left than right.
No opposition, no answers and no hope. Just the same old same old propping up the left side of the Establishment and blocking real progress or even a discussion of it.
As it stands, I’d not even vote for them to get the Tories out as it just perpetuates and deepens the same political, social and economic failings.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Nice to see this gaining some traction on 12:17 - Mar 25 with 1235 views
Nice to see this gaining some traction on 10:48 - Mar 25 by GunnsAirkick
Am I missing something with the Liverpool outcry? Starmer can't be seen to prop up a council which has had several of its members arrested for corruption, it would be complete and utter madness.
As for this new party, if the left vote is split that's five to ten more years of Tory rule. Don't give me that b*llocks that Johnson and Starmer are "exactly the same" either as it's complete nonsense. The real truth is hardcore Corbyn supporters still can't accept that he failed and that Labour has moved towards the centre again. I voted for Corbyn to be leader first time around and did campaign work for Labour over the last three General Elections, at this point I just want the Tories out, but this factionalist bulls**t makes that less of a possibility by the day.
So why did the Labour leadership start a factional war when there were a great many pro-Corbyn supporters who supported Starmer in his leadership campaign and believed his pledges were genuine?
Why have local activists and grassroots members been sidelined by an authoritarian HQ that is rowing back on pledges about internal democracy?
And why was that same Labour right faction actively and very publicly undermining previous attempts to get the Tories out while WITHIN the party organisation and PLP?
These are the people who have been in charge for decades and overseen Labour losing ground against progressively worse Tory governments.
To borrow a phrase, f**k them and f**k anyone who supports them. I hope they get utterly smashed so people stop giving them credit they never really earned or deserved.
[Post edited 25 Mar 2021 12:19]
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Nice to see this gaining some traction on 12:27 - Mar 25 with 1222 views
That will keep the Tories in. If you want the Tories out you have to vote Labour, same goes for the Scots. The Scots by voting Nats have kept the Tories in power. If you do the same in England you will end up splitting the vote and getting Tories forever more.
Nice to see this gaining some traction on 12:05 - Mar 25 by Darth_Koont
That’s your reading of it. I see the leadership acting far more factionally now. And I see the mostly centre-right PLP and its allied media nodding along and still punching harder left than right.
No opposition, no answers and no hope. Just the same old same old propping up the left side of the Establishment and blocking real progress or even a discussion of it.
As it stands, I’d not even vote for them to get the Tories out as it just perpetuates and deepens the same political, social and economic failings.
Nice to see this gaining some traction on 10:49 - Mar 25 by Herbivore
Except it wasn't a vote winner across the country, it was the opposite. He lost seats to the Tories that nobody could ever imagine would be won by the Tories. Of course Brexit was a significant factor but Labour weren't really helped by Corbyn being pretty useless. He didn't connect with those people whose rights he said he cared about. I'm not sure he spent that much time engaging them either, most of his rallies were attended by students and young middle class professionals.
He showed a failure of leadership throughout on Brexit as well. You can't just pin it entirely on the media. Of course they are influential, but nobody outside a small core of students and educated middle class folk believed in Corbyn. Nobody really knew where he stood on issues that mattered to them, particularly on Brexit. To lose the trust of both leavers and remainers really takes some doing.
If you separated the policies away from the characterisation of Corbyn and away from Brexit then yes, they were popular vote-winners.
That’s why Corbyn was and still is popular amongst people who didn’t fall for the whole Brexit mess and didn’t fall for the OTT media narrative smearing him.
Labour not taking the opportunity post-Brexit and post-Corbyn to capitalise on that is a massive mistake. But the problem is that I really don’t believe the people in charge at Labour want change because that doesn’t suit their own interests. Everything points at them wanting the power, money and influence that comes from being on the inside of that political/lobbyist/media/corporate bubble we call Westminster.
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Nice to see this gaining some traction on 12:38 - Mar 25 with 1203 views
Nice to see this gaining some traction on 12:37 - Mar 25 by Darth_Koont
If you separated the policies away from the characterisation of Corbyn and away from Brexit then yes, they were popular vote-winners.
That’s why Corbyn was and still is popular amongst people who didn’t fall for the whole Brexit mess and didn’t fall for the OTT media narrative smearing him.
Labour not taking the opportunity post-Brexit and post-Corbyn to capitalise on that is a massive mistake. But the problem is that I really don’t believe the people in charge at Labour want change because that doesn’t suit their own interests. Everything points at them wanting the power, money and influence that comes from being on the inside of that political/lobbyist/media/corporate bubble we call Westminster.
Who isn't going to want free broadband? You can't just say if you ignore Corbyn and his lack of credibility then actually people really liked Corbyn. Of course the media portrayal was harsh, but this is a media that declared Ed Milliband unelectable because he couldn't eat a sandwich. When you give them actual ammo they are going to go to town on you, and Corbyn did very little to change the narrative that was being put across.
The Labour manifesto in 2019 was a mess. Sure people liked some of the policies on paper but when your manifesto is a 20+ year programme of change being pitched as something to be achieved in the next Parliament people aren't going to trust you to deliver. And when you try to ignore big issues like Brexit in the hope that voters won't really worry about that, then you really aren't very in touch with the people you are pitching to represent. Corbyn was a car crash I'm afraid.
Nice to see this gaining some traction on 12:44 - Mar 25 by Herbivore
Who isn't going to want free broadband? You can't just say if you ignore Corbyn and his lack of credibility then actually people really liked Corbyn. Of course the media portrayal was harsh, but this is a media that declared Ed Milliband unelectable because he couldn't eat a sandwich. When you give them actual ammo they are going to go to town on you, and Corbyn did very little to change the narrative that was being put across.
The Labour manifesto in 2019 was a mess. Sure people liked some of the policies on paper but when your manifesto is a 20+ year programme of change being pitched as something to be achieved in the next Parliament people aren't going to trust you to deliver. And when you try to ignore big issues like Brexit in the hope that voters won't really worry about that, then you really aren't very in touch with the people you are pitching to represent. Corbyn was a car crash I'm afraid.
Think you’re downplaying that massively for Corbyn. I’ve never seen anything remotely like it for any mainstream political figure.
While you also seem to want Starmer to be given an even easier ride and no criticism for him and his team’s own active decisions and resulting polling.
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Nice to see this gaining some traction on 13:22 - Mar 25 with 1163 views
Nice to see this gaining some traction on 12:17 - Mar 25 by Darth_Koont
So why did the Labour leadership start a factional war when there were a great many pro-Corbyn supporters who supported Starmer in his leadership campaign and believed his pledges were genuine?
Why have local activists and grassroots members been sidelined by an authoritarian HQ that is rowing back on pledges about internal democracy?
And why was that same Labour right faction actively and very publicly undermining previous attempts to get the Tories out while WITHIN the party organisation and PLP?
These are the people who have been in charge for decades and overseen Labour losing ground against progressively worse Tory governments.
To borrow a phrase, f**k them and f**k anyone who supports them. I hope they get utterly smashed so people stop giving them credit they never really earned or deserved.
[Post edited 25 Mar 2021 12:19]
I don't approve of all of Starmer's actions to date nor do I approve of how Corbyn was treated, but Starmer is the only option we have and he's not going anywhere. The sooner people accept this the better.
A centre-left Labour Party will be far better than the absolute shower we have running the country at the moment. What basis do you have that they are no different bar your ideological purity (which by the way, solves f**k all)? You're just cutting off your nose to spite your face. Stop moaning about what the Conservative Party are doing to the country if you're happy to enable them to do it (you may as well vote for them).
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Nice to see this gaining some traction on 13:28 - Mar 25 with 1152 views
Nice to see this gaining some traction on 13:22 - Mar 25 by GunnsAirkick
I don't approve of all of Starmer's actions to date nor do I approve of how Corbyn was treated, but Starmer is the only option we have and he's not going anywhere. The sooner people accept this the better.
A centre-left Labour Party will be far better than the absolute shower we have running the country at the moment. What basis do you have that they are no different bar your ideological purity (which by the way, solves f**k all)? You're just cutting off your nose to spite your face. Stop moaning about what the Conservative Party are doing to the country if you're happy to enable them to do it (you may as well vote for them).
Nice to see this gaining some traction on 13:22 - Mar 25 by GunnsAirkick
I don't approve of all of Starmer's actions to date nor do I approve of how Corbyn was treated, but Starmer is the only option we have and he's not going anywhere. The sooner people accept this the better.
A centre-left Labour Party will be far better than the absolute shower we have running the country at the moment. What basis do you have that they are no different bar your ideological purity (which by the way, solves f**k all)? You're just cutting off your nose to spite your face. Stop moaning about what the Conservative Party are doing to the country if you're happy to enable them to do it (you may as well vote for them).
A) They certainly aren’t centre-left by any objective measure. They seem more than happy pivoting centre-right on most issues.
And B) they’re not the only option. I’d vote for and support the Greens to try and drag Labour and the Tories towards taking climate change seriously. I support BLM and other minority organisations who are rightfully complaining about systemic racism being sidelined. I support the SNP for wanting to move away from the damaging structural and regional imbalances being ignored by a detached and centralised political/media sphere. And so on and so on.
What I won’t do is support and/or vote for people I don’t believe in and who, Tory and Labour, are the source of many of these problems.
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