| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 14:53 - Sep 30 with 1781 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 14:47 - Sep 30 by Fixed_It |
I see. So they aren't all the same but they should be treated all the same?
Jesus - can you imagine the reaction if the police took that attitude to...football supporters, motorists, ethnic minotities, teenagers etc?! |
Er, they very often do, that's the whole problem..... |  |
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| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 14:54 - Sep 30 with 1783 views | chicoazul |
| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 14:47 - Sep 30 by Fixed_It |
I see. So they aren't all the same but they should be treated all the same?
Jesus - can you imagine the reaction if the police took that attitude to...football supporters, motorists, ethnic minotities, teenagers etc?! |
can you imagine the reaction if the police took that attitude to...ethnic minotities
Lol yeah wow just imagine |  |
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| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 14:55 - Sep 30 with 1768 views | chicoazul |
| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 14:52 - Sep 30 by BlueandTruesince82 |
I treat them all the same. With suspicion and mistrust until they demonstrate otherwise.
I'm sure there are other factors, poor training etc and again there are plenty of good officers too but my feeling is they racially profile, they are ill informed about many aspects of the law and they treat us with suspicion so we should do the same. |
Quite right. | |
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| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 15:01 - Sep 30 with 1734 views | Ryorry |
| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 13:54 - Sep 30 by Fixed_It |
Sorry - but that is a load of bollox! |
It really isn't. Have to say including the "Don’t accept being “arrested” when there is just one of them". I've never heard of a copper being on patrol on their own in modern times, esp at night, has anyone else? It would immediately & instinctively put my hackles on alert. I guess poor Sarah Everard's young age and corresponding lack of life experience meant she wasn't aware of that.
I'm glad her family's impact statements were taken into account. It sounds as though replaying what happened to Sarah in her last hours & minutes is also going to take a toll on their health & maybe shorten their lives.
Am also sparing a thought for Couzens wife & kids - how on earth must they be feeling? |  |
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| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 15:02 - Sep 30 with 1729 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 14:37 - Sep 30 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I've seen your other posts. Why are you calling for Dame Cressida Dick's resignation rather than those who missed the warning signs? Cressida Dick won't have known anything about this chap before this incident and I don't see what her resignation achieves. |
If she isn't sufficiently interested to be informed when one of her officers is investigated for an alleged sexual offence, then she is guilty of negligence.
If the same person is investigated for an alleged sexual offence three times?
And he is a firearms officer?
Ultimately it is her job to ensure that all aspects of the Metropolitan Police are fit for purpose. When there are extremely serious multiple failings then the buck stops with her.
Is she a family friend or something?
Maybe if I restate the question you will see where I am coming from.
I recall that you live in London. The Met (as all Police Forces) are to be given greater powers through the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill.
Knowing what you know of:
The failure of psychological evaluation protocols in the Met to identify Sarah Everard's murderer as a danger and keep him as an active firearms officer after three allegations of Sexual Offences.
The culture of officers around Sarah Everard's murderer.
The policing of the Sarah Everard vigil.
And Commissioner Dick's previous record as a senior officer, including ordering the use of lethal force against Jean Charles de Menezes, an innocent Brazilian man who had been misidentified.
Are you confident that she is the right person to lead the Met forward into the next era of Policing, with significantly enhanced powers?
Because if you aren't, speak now. You won't be able to protest the next time one of her officers kills someone. |  | | |
| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 15:03 - Sep 30 with 1746 views | Fixed_It |
| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 14:54 - Sep 30 by chicoazul |
can you imagine the reaction if the police took that attitude to...ethnic minotities
Lol yeah wow just imagine |
You seem to be an expert on sweeping statements and generalisations, without much sense of hypocrisy. You've clearly had some bad experiences, so I'm not sure there's much I can add to this debate which will persuade you otherwise. But life is much better without paranoia and distrust. I wish you well. |  |
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| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 15:10 - Sep 30 with 1709 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 14:53 - Sep 30 by The_Flashing_Smile |
I was airing my view on this particular case and how I think it's more appropriate that the people doing the testing should be held to account. It seems you have a "bee in your bonnet" with Cressida Dick. If people nicknamed him "The Rapist" then why weren't those people (and their bosses) doing something, and why aren't you calling for their heads? As I've said, I doubt Cressida Dick had heard of him.
However, you make some interesting points and if as you say there are further charges of mismanagement against her then I'd be willing to change my position. As I say, I was only commenting on this specific case. |
Yes, I do have a bee in my bonnet about the senior officer responsible for Jean Charles de Menezes' unlawful killing being promoted to the top job in UK policing. And about the way in which she ordered her officers to Police the Sarah Everard vigil. I was sick to my stomach that night.
So, yes, guilty. Of a thought crime. Which is just about the only thing that didn't make the final cut into the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill from Priti Patel's wishlist. | | | |
| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 15:12 - Sep 30 with 1707 views | N2_Blue |
| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 14:18 - Sep 30 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Disgraceful by Harman IMO. How is it Cressida Dick's fault and what would her resignation achieve? I hate the culture of demanding resignations at the drop of a hat in this country. |
Sorry Dollers, often agree with you but you are miles off on this one. How Cressida Dick is her position is an absolute joke when you look as the mishandling of MET Police matters on her watch. The list is so long it's unreal.
She should have resigned/been sacked 10 times over! She'll get an absolute fortune of a pension anyway but actually maybe someone else could try and deal with the matters currently faced and try to restore public trust of the police before it is irreparable. |  |
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| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 15:14 - Sep 30 with 1689 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 15:02 - Sep 30 by ArnoldMoorhen |
If she isn't sufficiently interested to be informed when one of her officers is investigated for an alleged sexual offence, then she is guilty of negligence.
If the same person is investigated for an alleged sexual offence three times?
And he is a firearms officer?
Ultimately it is her job to ensure that all aspects of the Metropolitan Police are fit for purpose. When there are extremely serious multiple failings then the buck stops with her.
Is she a family friend or something?
Maybe if I restate the question you will see where I am coming from.
I recall that you live in London. The Met (as all Police Forces) are to be given greater powers through the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill.
Knowing what you know of:
The failure of psychological evaluation protocols in the Met to identify Sarah Everard's murderer as a danger and keep him as an active firearms officer after three allegations of Sexual Offences.
The culture of officers around Sarah Everard's murderer.
The policing of the Sarah Everard vigil.
And Commissioner Dick's previous record as a senior officer, including ordering the use of lethal force against Jean Charles de Menezes, an innocent Brazilian man who had been misidentified.
Are you confident that she is the right person to lead the Met forward into the next era of Policing, with significantly enhanced powers?
Because if you aren't, speak now. You won't be able to protest the next time one of her officers kills someone. |
I've stated elsewhere I was only commenting on this specific case.
"If she isn't sufficiently interested..." - what are you talking about?! Where is the evidence she wasn't sufficiently interested? Maybe she just wasn't informed.
"Is she a family friend or something?" What a pathetic comment. A young woman has been brutally raped and murdered and you're using that to have a childish pop at me?
And why are you repeatedly calling for Dick's resignation but haven't said ANYTHING about those tasked with the job of vetting Couzens, those who investigated his sexual offences, and those aware of his reputation? |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 15:14 - Sep 30 with 1695 views | Ryorry |
| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 15:10 - Sep 30 by ArnoldMoorhen |
Yes, I do have a bee in my bonnet about the senior officer responsible for Jean Charles de Menezes' unlawful killing being promoted to the top job in UK policing. And about the way in which she ordered her officers to Police the Sarah Everard vigil. I was sick to my stomach that night.
So, yes, guilty. Of a thought crime. Which is just about the only thing that didn't make the final cut into the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill from Priti Patel's wishlist. |
Edit - sorry misread that. I think the 'thought crime' thing was also proposed by a previous tory government? [Post edited 30 Sep 2021 15:17]
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| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 15:17 - Sep 30 with 1676 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 15:12 - Sep 30 by N2_Blue |
Sorry Dollers, often agree with you but you are miles off on this one. How Cressida Dick is her position is an absolute joke when you look as the mishandling of MET Police matters on her watch. The list is so long it's unreal.
She should have resigned/been sacked 10 times over! She'll get an absolute fortune of a pension anyway but actually maybe someone else could try and deal with the matters currently faced and try to restore public trust of the police before it is irreparable. |
As I've said on numerous occasions, I was commenting on this case specifically. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 15:20 - Sep 30 with 1665 views | Herbivore |
| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 15:10 - Sep 30 by ArnoldMoorhen |
Yes, I do have a bee in my bonnet about the senior officer responsible for Jean Charles de Menezes' unlawful killing being promoted to the top job in UK policing. And about the way in which she ordered her officers to Police the Sarah Everard vigil. I was sick to my stomach that night.
So, yes, guilty. Of a thought crime. Which is just about the only thing that didn't make the final cut into the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill from Priti Patel's wishlist. |
Yes but she didn't pull the trigger and she wasn't the one man handling the women peacefully protesting. Or something like that. I imagine that the poster in question hasn't experienced being in management and doesn't understand that when the team or organisation you are responsible for is mired in scandal that the buck ultimately stops with you. It's your house, it's your responsibility, when it keeps going wrong, you have to be accountable. |  |
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| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 15:27 - Sep 30 with 1638 views | N2_Blue |
| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 15:17 - Sep 30 by The_Flashing_Smile |
As I've said on numerous occasions, I was commenting on this case specifically. |
She should resign based on this case alone! Her watch, she is accountable...and matters have got worse since the case. She's not fit for purpose | |
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| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 15:32 - Sep 30 with 1617 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 15:27 - Sep 30 by N2_Blue |
She should resign based on this case alone! Her watch, she is accountable...and matters have got worse since the case. She's not fit for purpose |
What about the people actually meant to be doing the vetting? I've asked this several times and no-one has said a thing.
I think, on reflection of everything else (as Arnold has posted), I was wrong and Dick should resign/be sacked as well. There needs to be an overhaul of the system. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 15:34 - Sep 30 with 1617 views | N2_Blue |
| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 15:32 - Sep 30 by The_Flashing_Smile |
What about the people actually meant to be doing the vetting? I've asked this several times and no-one has said a thing.
I think, on reflection of everything else (as Arnold has posted), I was wrong and Dick should resign/be sacked as well. There needs to be an overhaul of the system. |
No one has said they shouldn't be sacked/resign either. They should.
Fair play in taking on board Arnoldmoorhen's comments.
I completely agree their needs to be an overhaul of the system. Things seem to have gone backwards recently and that's not just down to Tory policy and funding cuts with regards to policing. [Post edited 30 Sep 2021 15:38]
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| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 15:45 - Sep 30 with 1609 views | chicoazul |
| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 15:03 - Sep 30 by Fixed_It |
You seem to be an expert on sweeping statements and generalisations, without much sense of hypocrisy. You've clearly had some bad experiences, so I'm not sure there's much I can add to this debate which will persuade you otherwise. But life is much better without paranoia and distrust. I wish you well. |
Well to start off with a better man wouldn’t point out the stupidity of the statement “You seem to be an expert on sweeping statements and generalisations” but I’m not that better man
I have had zero bad experiences with the police. I have called them once 20 years ago and they were efficient and perfectly good.
I am a middle class middle age white man with a plummy voice and full head of hair (to say nothing of being very handsome and charismatic). I and people like me hardly ever have bad police experiences. But I have also observed terrible police practice from afar and have had friends family and colleagues explain to me about the awful experiences they have had. Add this to the high profile cases mentioned in this thread and many many others besides and that means for me and many others Babylon are not to be trusted *until they prove otherwise*. It’s that simple. Not every value judgement one makes needs to be informed by ones own limited experience. | |
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| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 15:57 - Sep 30 with 1580 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 15:32 - Sep 30 by The_Flashing_Smile |
What about the people actually meant to be doing the vetting? I've asked this several times and no-one has said a thing.
I think, on reflection of everything else (as Arnold has posted), I was wrong and Dick should resign/be sacked as well. There needs to be an overhaul of the system. |
I would hope that there will be a thorough Independent Investigation into the whole case, identifying all failings, and potential disciplinary issues, across all ranks.
That is my hope, but I expect a whitewash.
I didn't intend the "Is she a family friend?" thing as a dig, more of a rhetorical flourish expressing my bewilderment at your continued defence of the Commissioner, by the way. You are frequently piled into on here, and mob down voted. I'm not part of that and was engaging with what you wrote, rather than picking on you.
Anyway, probably best to move on now. | | | |
| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 16:09 - Sep 30 with 1537 views | usm |
| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 15:32 - Sep 30 by The_Flashing_Smile |
What about the people actually meant to be doing the vetting? I've asked this several times and no-one has said a thing.
I think, on reflection of everything else (as Arnold has posted), I was wrong and Dick should resign/be sacked as well. There needs to be an overhaul of the system. |
Hahaha, fantastic u turn, Dollers.
Mind you, I respect anyone who changes their mind, for the right reasons, but you didnt put up much of a fight.
Its easy to shout for someone to resign - not so easy to back someone who is up against it. |  |
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| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 16:11 - Sep 30 with 1542 views | noggin |
| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 14:13 - Sep 30 by chicoazul |
Being arrested isn’t “nothing”. It seems to me that Couzens “arrested” the poor lady in question. That is speculation on my part.
I would add to my advice; ring someone you know immediately if you are spoken to by a police constable. Don’t wait do it immediately. |
She should have taken his shoulder number? By the sound of it, there was nothing Sarah Everard could have done to avoid being murdered. |  |
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| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 16:19 - Sep 30 with 1511 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 16:09 - Sep 30 by usm |
Hahaha, fantastic u turn, Dollers.
Mind you, I respect anyone who changes their mind, for the right reasons, but you didnt put up much of a fight.
Its easy to shout for someone to resign - not so easy to back someone who is up against it. |
Well Arnold's evidence is pretty compelling. I still don't think she should resign on this case alone. I knew a Tesco worker who killed someone through drink driving - I wouldn't expect the chairman of Tesco to resign over it. But when you add all the other stuff to it then I have to admit it doesn't look good for Cressida Dick.
I don't really think this is a case of putting up a fight. AM presented further evidence I hadn't considered. Now I have and I think he's right. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 16:22 - Sep 30 with 1505 views | sotd78 |
| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 14:18 - Sep 30 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Disgraceful by Harman IMO. How is it Cressida Dick's fault and what would her resignation achieve? I hate the culture of demanding resignations at the drop of a hat in this country. |
We have to stop just blaming the boss for one rotten apple. What we do here is look at how Cressida Dick is doing her job overall. Has progress been made in reforming her force; does she have in place better procedures etc. Is the Met making strides in the right direction? Firing someone for a single result or even a set of results is basically stupid. Especially if they are making a new and better team, Just to bring it neatly to a football analogy. |  |
| Blue shirts/white shorts - sotd78 |
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| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 16:24 - Sep 30 with 1484 views | eastangliaisblue |
| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 13:36 - Sep 30 by BlueBadger |
in his case, I'm pleased he's not going to the gallows for the simple reason that:
1) coppers inside do not tend to be popular, for some reason
2) Sex offenders inside tend not to be popular.
He's going to spend the rest of his life living with the expectation that round the next corner, the next cellmate, the next meal, the next association time there's going to be someone waiting to do him a serious mischief.
I'll take that any day over an 'easy out'.
Generally though, I'm opposed to the death penalty because it's utter barbarism that achieves nothing other than slakes bloodlust for some people. [Post edited 30 Sep 2021 16:24]
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One thing scumbags like him shouldn't be given though, is protection while in prison. He should be put in general population, to reap what he has sown. |  | | |
| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 16:39 - Sep 30 with 1460 views | Crawfordsboot |
Not surprisingly the posts on here reflect quite a range of viewpoints. Also some are rather locked into a narrow pointscoring argument.
As I see it:
1. Couzens is a dangerously deranged man who should be removed from society. The sentence passed achieves this.
2. As a serving police officer he has tarnished the reputation of all police officers.
3. Let’s not forget that other serving police officers brought him to justice and the court system has put him away for life.
4. If I were to lose a relative to murder I would of course turn immediately to the police for their help. |  | | |
| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 17:05 - Sep 30 with 1406 views | Ryorry |
| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 16:11 - Sep 30 by noggin |
She should have taken his shoulder number? By the sound of it, there was nothing Sarah Everard could have done to avoid being murdered. |
I think Chico was just giving general advice for anyone who might be arrested for anything in future, not blaming Sarah Everard herself - at least I bloody well hope not, cos I'd be out of my skin with fury if he was. | |
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| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 17:07 - Sep 30 with 1402 views | noggin |
| Sarah Everard: full-life term for her killer. on 17:05 - Sep 30 by Ryorry |
I think Chico was just giving general advice for anyone who might be arrested for anything in future, not blaming Sarah Everard herself - at least I bloody well hope not, cos I'd be out of my skin with fury if he was. |
I get that. It just seemed strange advice to give in a discussion about this particular murder. | |
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