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When will games at Portman Road go behind closed door again? on 06:54 - Oct 26 by homer_123
I understand some people don't like it and maybe some might never get used to it.
It is interesting that large parts of the world don't seem to have an issue with it, actually, it's not even something that is debated.
Just a thought...seatbelts. Many, many, many people thought them to be an inconvenience (some still do) but I think the majority can see the benefit and the absolute vast majority now wear them and don't even question it.
Plenty of debate to be had about how much a difference a mask makes, for sure. But it's not just Covid and the Flu. As I posted - I can actually 'see and feel' the difference after a spending a day in our lovely green, emission free capital.....without a mask, my nose is black...with....it's clear. I don't need to be a doctor to understand that it cannot be a bad thing for me, for less of that sh*t to get into my lungs.
Maybe you are right, that it's a bigger behavioural change that I stated but one worth considering, surely?
Seatbelts only became accepted because of huge media campaigns and zero tolerance enforcement. Without the threat of a fine, or just the inconvenience of getting pulled over, breathalysed and having to toodle off to station to present documents, they never would have taken off.
We have to deal with the reality that masks are never going to be accepted and people will just pull the 'exempt' excuse when they come back in. Unless there is state enforcement and sanctions, (and I'm not advocating there is before anyone has a pop), they won't become the norm any time soon.
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When will games at Portman Road go behind closed door again? on 10:05 - Oct 26 with 1989 views
When will games at Portman Road go behind closed door again? on 06:54 - Oct 26 by homer_123
I understand some people don't like it and maybe some might never get used to it.
It is interesting that large parts of the world don't seem to have an issue with it, actually, it's not even something that is debated.
Just a thought...seatbelts. Many, many, many people thought them to be an inconvenience (some still do) but I think the majority can see the benefit and the absolute vast majority now wear them and don't even question it.
Plenty of debate to be had about how much a difference a mask makes, for sure. But it's not just Covid and the Flu. As I posted - I can actually 'see and feel' the difference after a spending a day in our lovely green, emission free capital.....without a mask, my nose is black...with....it's clear. I don't need to be a doctor to understand that it cannot be a bad thing for me, for less of that sh*t to get into my lungs.
Maybe you are right, that it's a bigger behavioural change that I stated but one worth considering, surely?
I get the points you are trying to make re seatbelts but this isn't just purely about physical comfort.
There is a whole mental side to things and i struggle not being able to see someone's whole face. I do all my shopping online, not just purely because it's safer to do so, but because it's not longer a pleasant experience. I'd like to actually browse shops again and speak to a salesperson for advice but chatting to someone in a mask i really struggle with, it's bad enough if it's someone i know, but with a stranger I find it awkward.
Maybe it's going to be the way of the world, but social interaction with mask wearing could take a long long time for some people. There are more reasons why some people struggle with masks than just their own personal comfort.
So I'm not saying it's not worth considering or something that could potentially happen just trying to make out it a bigger behavioral change than you are making out because you may find it much easier than many people.
When will games at Portman Road go behind closed door again? on 10:05 - Oct 26 by N2_Blue
I get the points you are trying to make re seatbelts but this isn't just purely about physical comfort.
There is a whole mental side to things and i struggle not being able to see someone's whole face. I do all my shopping online, not just purely because it's safer to do so, but because it's not longer a pleasant experience. I'd like to actually browse shops again and speak to a salesperson for advice but chatting to someone in a mask i really struggle with, it's bad enough if it's someone i know, but with a stranger I find it awkward.
Maybe it's going to be the way of the world, but social interaction with mask wearing could take a long long time for some people. There are more reasons why some people struggle with masks than just their own personal comfort.
So I'm not saying it's not worth considering or something that could potentially happen just trying to make out it a bigger behavioral change than you are making out because you may find it much easier than many people.
When will games at Portman Road go behind closed door again? on 21:40 - Oct 25 by StokieBlue
So whilst I understand you don't like masks I think there is a bigger debate to be had here around what should be "normal".
"Again, where I disagree with Stokie (and Homer) is that even when the pandemic is over they should be used in the winter to keep flu infections down. We managed without them before covid."
Yes, we managed without them before covid but covid has shown us that perhaps that was entirely the wrong thing to do. Flu deaths are far lower than covid of course but last year they were far lower than most other years and in the US they were down to unheard of levels. A major reason for this is because flu is less contagious (has a far lower R) than covid and thus wearing masks does a lot to cut out the spread of flu.
People say we live with flu but the real question should be:
Do we have to live with flu?
If wearing masks over the winter months in certain situations like trains, supermarkets and other crowded places means thousands of people don't die of flu then that is surely more important than whether you feel comfortable for a few minutes wearing a mask? Of course people will still die of flu but if less people die it's surely a good thing.
What we should be doing now is actually assessing whether the "normal" was ever right and whether we should be returned to exactly how things were.
Unfortunately, you're essentially saying that comfort is more important than stopping some people from contracting the flu. I know that's an uncomfortable thing to read but that's what it boils down to and that is why I am for mask wearing every winter in some places.
The Asian countries have no problem doing this for the benefit of there societies, we should probably reflect on why we have such a problem doing it.
Perhaps it's not worth it and people are happy with the level of flu deaths. Perhaps mask wearing won't be as effective as hoped against the flu longer term anyway. Either way I think it's a debate which should be had even if it challenges some people.
In the end you'll not have to worry though, if this country is barely willing to wear masks for something like covid, it's never going to wear them for something like flu.
SB
Hi GB.
You said yesterday you were interested in my reply to a post where it was blank. I'd like to return the favour and ask what your thoughts are on this post?
SB
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When will games at Portman Road go behind closed door again? on 21:40 - Oct 26 with 1730 views
When will games at Portman Road go behind closed door again? on 21:19 - Oct 26 by StokieBlue
Hi GB.
You said yesterday you were interested in my reply to a post where it was blank. I'd like to return the favour and ask what your thoughts are on this post?
SB
Hi Stokie
Yes there is bigger debate to be had. And I'm happy to give you my view.
Do we have to live with flu? We have done for all of our lives. I don't recall anyone on here, including you, posting that we should be taking the lead from Japan and wearing face masks pre COVID. Yes it would be a good thing to reduce those deaths. Why ever didn't we think of this before?
Was mask wearing in Japan pre COVID mandatory? Or is it cultural? Something that has become the norm over several generations? Could the same thing happen here? My kids seem very much at ease with the new normal, so maybe it will be.
We could also save 1.35 million deaths a year in this country by banning cars. Is banning cars and only using public transport a move we should be advocating to save those lives? And where do we stop? Life has risks. Do we take away all risk and live in a bubble?
Do we introduce social distancing every winter? That will save more live lost to the flu. Do we continue to work from home every winter?
I was at a concert last week sitting in a hall where everyone, including myself and Mrs GB were wearing masks. As I looked around and then looked at the maskless performers on the stage I couldn't help but think it looked like something out of a sci-fi movie. Some futuristic dystopian society.
And I didn't say I find masks uncomfortable. I said I loath and detest wearing them. I find them claustrophobic. Sometimes the heat is unbearable and I get quite agitated.. Bu I do it anyway. Because I have to wear a mask as part of my job. I do so for 8 to 10 hours a day. Every day. I was wearing masks back in February last year. Long before the WHO recommended their usage.
So if just wanting us to go back to how I lived my life, and the way you lived yours, before the Pandemic makes me a selfish bastard then so be it. Shoot me for wanting to socially interact with other human beings in the way I have done for the past 50 odd years.
When will games at Portman Road go behind closed door again? on 21:53 - Oct 26 by GlasgowBlue
Hi Stokie
Yes there is bigger debate to be had. And I'm happy to give you my view.
Do we have to live with flu? We have done for all of our lives. I don't recall anyone on here, including you, posting that we should be taking the lead from Japan and wearing face masks pre COVID. Yes it would be a good thing to reduce those deaths. Why ever didn't we think of this before?
Was mask wearing in Japan pre COVID mandatory? Or is it cultural? Something that has become the norm over several generations? Could the same thing happen here? My kids seem very much at ease with the new normal, so maybe it will be.
We could also save 1.35 million deaths a year in this country by banning cars. Is banning cars and only using public transport a move we should be advocating to save those lives? And where do we stop? Life has risks. Do we take away all risk and live in a bubble?
Do we introduce social distancing every winter? That will save more live lost to the flu. Do we continue to work from home every winter?
I was at a concert last week sitting in a hall where everyone, including myself and Mrs GB were wearing masks. As I looked around and then looked at the maskless performers on the stage I couldn't help but think it looked like something out of a sci-fi movie. Some futuristic dystopian society.
And I didn't say I find masks uncomfortable. I said I loath and detest wearing them. I find them claustrophobic. Sometimes the heat is unbearable and I get quite agitated.. Bu I do it anyway. Because I have to wear a mask as part of my job. I do so for 8 to 10 hours a day. Every day. I was wearing masks back in February last year. Long before the WHO recommended their usage.
So if just wanting us to go back to how I lived my life, and the way you lived yours, before the Pandemic makes me a selfish bastard then so be it. Shoot me for wanting to socially interact with other human beings in the way I have done for the past 50 odd years.
Thanks for the response.
I'm out of town and thus only on my phone tonight but I'll respond appropriately tomorrow or the day after.
I will quickly say that arguing on the basis that something has always been a certain way is in my view a logically inconsistent viewpoint. If we extend that logic to other aspects of daily life then nothing would progress and we wouldn't be having this conversation using photons, binary and LCD screens.
SB
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When will games at Portman Road go behind closed door again? on 22:03 - Oct 26 with 1651 views
When will games at Portman Road go behind closed door again? on 21:53 - Oct 26 by GlasgowBlue
Hi Stokie
Yes there is bigger debate to be had. And I'm happy to give you my view.
Do we have to live with flu? We have done for all of our lives. I don't recall anyone on here, including you, posting that we should be taking the lead from Japan and wearing face masks pre COVID. Yes it would be a good thing to reduce those deaths. Why ever didn't we think of this before?
Was mask wearing in Japan pre COVID mandatory? Or is it cultural? Something that has become the norm over several generations? Could the same thing happen here? My kids seem very much at ease with the new normal, so maybe it will be.
We could also save 1.35 million deaths a year in this country by banning cars. Is banning cars and only using public transport a move we should be advocating to save those lives? And where do we stop? Life has risks. Do we take away all risk and live in a bubble?
Do we introduce social distancing every winter? That will save more live lost to the flu. Do we continue to work from home every winter?
I was at a concert last week sitting in a hall where everyone, including myself and Mrs GB were wearing masks. As I looked around and then looked at the maskless performers on the stage I couldn't help but think it looked like something out of a sci-fi movie. Some futuristic dystopian society.
And I didn't say I find masks uncomfortable. I said I loath and detest wearing them. I find them claustrophobic. Sometimes the heat is unbearable and I get quite agitated.. Bu I do it anyway. Because I have to wear a mask as part of my job. I do so for 8 to 10 hours a day. Every day. I was wearing masks back in February last year. Long before the WHO recommended their usage.
So if just wanting us to go back to how I lived my life, and the way you lived yours, before the Pandemic makes me a selfish bastard then so be it. Shoot me for wanting to socially interact with other human beings in the way I have done for the past 50 odd years.
That's a whole lotta words for a whole lotta nothin'. Could've just typed this:
"So if just wanting us to go back to how I lived my life, and the way you lived yours, before the Pandemic makes me a selfish bastard then so be it."
Congrats, you've followed the government and a large percentage of the population in learning absolutely nothing whatsoever. Clever you.
Dear old footers KC - Private Counsel to Big Farmer - Liberator of Vichy TWTD
When will games at Portman Road go behind closed door again? on 21:53 - Oct 26 by GlasgowBlue
Hi Stokie
Yes there is bigger debate to be had. And I'm happy to give you my view.
Do we have to live with flu? We have done for all of our lives. I don't recall anyone on here, including you, posting that we should be taking the lead from Japan and wearing face masks pre COVID. Yes it would be a good thing to reduce those deaths. Why ever didn't we think of this before?
Was mask wearing in Japan pre COVID mandatory? Or is it cultural? Something that has become the norm over several generations? Could the same thing happen here? My kids seem very much at ease with the new normal, so maybe it will be.
We could also save 1.35 million deaths a year in this country by banning cars. Is banning cars and only using public transport a move we should be advocating to save those lives? And where do we stop? Life has risks. Do we take away all risk and live in a bubble?
Do we introduce social distancing every winter? That will save more live lost to the flu. Do we continue to work from home every winter?
I was at a concert last week sitting in a hall where everyone, including myself and Mrs GB were wearing masks. As I looked around and then looked at the maskless performers on the stage I couldn't help but think it looked like something out of a sci-fi movie. Some futuristic dystopian society.
And I didn't say I find masks uncomfortable. I said I loath and detest wearing them. I find them claustrophobic. Sometimes the heat is unbearable and I get quite agitated.. Bu I do it anyway. Because I have to wear a mask as part of my job. I do so for 8 to 10 hours a day. Every day. I was wearing masks back in February last year. Long before the WHO recommended their usage.
So if just wanting us to go back to how I lived my life, and the way you lived yours, before the Pandemic makes me a selfish bastard then so be it. Shoot me for wanting to socially interact with other human beings in the way I have done for the past 50 odd years.
"We could also save 1.35 million deaths a year in this country by banning cars."
Really? Do you need an edit?
I thought the UK baseline was around 500k deaths p.a. from all causes?
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When will games at Portman Road go behind closed door again? on 22:33 - Oct 26 with 1574 views
When will games at Portman Road go behind closed door again? on 22:20 - Oct 26 by XYZ
"We could also save 1.35 million deaths a year in this country by banning cars."
Really? Do you need an edit?
I thought the UK baseline was around 500k deaths p.a. from all causes?
That is approximately the right number allowing for fluctuations within a standard deviation or so.
I think that something which has been lost (purposefully due to government design) is that 100 to 200 people are dying daily of C19 even now and that is >10% of the annual UK deaths from all causes even with the vaccinations.
It's easy to sweep 100 or 200 deaths under the carpet but when you look at the annualised number of~60000 it's less easy to ignore hence we never see that number reported anywhere or mentioned by the government.
SB
2
When will games at Portman Road go behind closed door again? on 22:37 - Oct 26 with 1568 views
Not sure how banning (presumably all road vehicles rather than just cars) correlates with wearing masks in the scale of inconvenience to normal activities either.
When will games at Portman Road go behind closed door again? on 22:33 - Oct 26 by StokieBlue
That is approximately the right number allowing for fluctuations within a standard deviation or so.
I think that something which has been lost (purposefully due to government design) is that 100 to 200 people are dying daily of C19 even now and that is >10% of the annual UK deaths from all causes even with the vaccinations.
It's easy to sweep 100 or 200 deaths under the carpet but when you look at the annualised number of~60000 it's less easy to ignore hence we never see that number reported anywhere or mentioned by the government.
SB
I'm presuming you're commenting on my 500k figure, not GB's 1.35m car-related?
I thought the govt had decided they could "cope" with <100 deaths-a-day, but it seems 200 or more doesn't dent their position.
Meanwhile somewhere in Whitehall some poor civil servant is totting up the amount "saved" in no-longer-payable state pension payments.
500 unnecessary deaths a week x 52 weeks x 10 years claiming x £8,000 pa = £2bn "saved" p.a.
Around £10bn "saved" already (150,000 deaths).
I bet that's not announced in the budget speech.
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When will games at Portman Road go behind closed door again? on 22:48 - Oct 26 with 1543 views
When will games at Portman Road go behind closed door again? on 14:43 - Oct 25 by abracaDOBRA_
You only have to wear them in the concourse, most people aren't going to wear a mask in their seats and I think that's fair enough. At least the club are asking for proof of vaccine or negative test
[Post edited 25 Oct 2021 14:47]
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[Post edited 27 Oct 2021 8:15]
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When will games at Portman Road go behind closed door again? on 08:26 - Oct 27 with 1424 views
When will games at Portman Road go behind closed door again? on 22:48 - Oct 26 by wkj
I once thought this was a comedy sketch, but it terns out it could be a reconstruction of events in Whitehall this year.
It has always surprised me that conspiracy theorists have gone down the made up plandemic route rather than 'it's the 1% killing us off because we are surplus to requirements ' route. Poor form!
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
When will games at Portman Road go behind closed door again? on 21:53 - Oct 26 by GlasgowBlue
Hi Stokie
Yes there is bigger debate to be had. And I'm happy to give you my view.
Do we have to live with flu? We have done for all of our lives. I don't recall anyone on here, including you, posting that we should be taking the lead from Japan and wearing face masks pre COVID. Yes it would be a good thing to reduce those deaths. Why ever didn't we think of this before?
Was mask wearing in Japan pre COVID mandatory? Or is it cultural? Something that has become the norm over several generations? Could the same thing happen here? My kids seem very much at ease with the new normal, so maybe it will be.
We could also save 1.35 million deaths a year in this country by banning cars. Is banning cars and only using public transport a move we should be advocating to save those lives? And where do we stop? Life has risks. Do we take away all risk and live in a bubble?
Do we introduce social distancing every winter? That will save more live lost to the flu. Do we continue to work from home every winter?
I was at a concert last week sitting in a hall where everyone, including myself and Mrs GB were wearing masks. As I looked around and then looked at the maskless performers on the stage I couldn't help but think it looked like something out of a sci-fi movie. Some futuristic dystopian society.
And I didn't say I find masks uncomfortable. I said I loath and detest wearing them. I find them claustrophobic. Sometimes the heat is unbearable and I get quite agitated.. Bu I do it anyway. Because I have to wear a mask as part of my job. I do so for 8 to 10 hours a day. Every day. I was wearing masks back in February last year. Long before the WHO recommended their usage.
So if just wanting us to go back to how I lived my life, and the way you lived yours, before the Pandemic makes me a selfish bastard then so be it. Shoot me for wanting to socially interact with other human beings in the way I have done for the past 50 odd years.
I have a bit of time now so as promised I'll give you my response.
"Do we have to live with flu? We have done for all of our lives. I don't recall anyone on here, including you, posting that we should be taking the lead from Japan and wearing face masks pre COVID. Yes it would be a good thing to reduce those deaths. Why ever didn't we think of this before?"
The logical conclusion from this paragraph is that nothing can ever change because it always used to be a certain way. That is clearly not a reasonable stance to take on virtually any subject. For instance, you've cited your daughter a lot recently however if attitudes and behaviour hadn't have changed then surely things would be far worse for her now?
So if we accept that attitudes can and do change as per the example above then why can't they change for something like mask wearing in winter?
You are correct I hadn't considered it before but I also didn't have access to the data showing what an impact it can make. Now we have better data can we not make a more informed decision? If we can reduced the people who die from flu and covid then shouldn't we do that? Or should we only seek to change historical perspectives on certain subjects?
"Was mask wearing in Japan pre COVID mandatory? Or is it cultural? Something that has become the norm over several generations? Could the same thing happen here? My kids seem very much at ease with the new normal, so maybe it will be."
I believe it's been normalised since SARS but I don't think there was an adoption time like you are implying, people saw it made sense and went with it. It doesn't need to be mandatory because people understand that it's a good option for themselves and others. The population in the West is of a different mindset and thus it probably would need to be mandated here in the locations it was required.
"We could also save 1.35 million deaths a year in this country by banning cars. Is banning cars and only using public transport a move we should be advocating to save those lives? And where do we stop? Life has risks. Do we take away all risk and live in a bubble?"
I know you've made a mistake with these numbers by around three orders of magnitude so I don't think there is much to say here except it seems odd to compare something as simple as wearing a mask to risks taken in society in general.
"Do we introduce social distancing every winter? That will save more live lost to the flu. Do we continue to work from home every winter?"
Once again I think you are comparing larger measures to a small one like wearing a mask. However I think there is a debate to be had around social distancing in winter - do people really need to be leaning over each other in supermarkets to get things? To be honest it's pretty rude anyway, giving people space in locations where it's possible is surely just a nice thing to do? WFH is a different matter, what needs to happen there is that there should be no judgement of people who WFH to avoid spreading something they have to others in the office - historically that hasn't been the case in many workplaces.
"I was at a concert last week sitting in a hall where everyone, including myself and Mrs GB were wearing masks. As I looked around and then looked at the maskless performers on the stage I couldn't help but think it looked like something out of a sci-fi movie. Some futuristic dystopian society."
Surely this is once again back to the original point of not wanting things to change? I'm not sure wearing a small piece of cloth is anything like a dystopian society. If you visited the far east in winter would you consider them to be living in a dystopian society?
I think a dystopian society is one where loads of people are dead from a virus where the transmissions can be reduced by making a small adjustment to our lifestyle in certain places and at certain times of the year but we didn't.
"And I didn't say I find masks uncomfortable. I said I loath and detest wearing them. I find them claustrophobic. Sometimes the heat is unbearable and I get quite agitated.. Bu I do it anyway. Because I have to wear a mask as part of my job. I do so for 8 to 10 hours a day. Every day. I was wearing masks back in February last year. Long before the WHO recommended their usage.
So if just wanting us to go back to how I lived my life, and the way you lived yours, before the Pandemic makes me a selfish bastard then so be it. Shoot me for wanting to socially interact with other human beings in the way I have done for the past 50 odd years."
Once again, this goes back to the fact you only want some things to change but not others. I think my first paragraph covers this.
SB
4
When will games at Portman Road go behind closed door again? on 10:46 - Oct 29 with 1154 views
When will games at Portman Road go behind closed door again? on 22:05 - Oct 27 by StokieBlue
I have a bit of time now so as promised I'll give you my response.
"Do we have to live with flu? We have done for all of our lives. I don't recall anyone on here, including you, posting that we should be taking the lead from Japan and wearing face masks pre COVID. Yes it would be a good thing to reduce those deaths. Why ever didn't we think of this before?"
The logical conclusion from this paragraph is that nothing can ever change because it always used to be a certain way. That is clearly not a reasonable stance to take on virtually any subject. For instance, you've cited your daughter a lot recently however if attitudes and behaviour hadn't have changed then surely things would be far worse for her now?
So if we accept that attitudes can and do change as per the example above then why can't they change for something like mask wearing in winter?
You are correct I hadn't considered it before but I also didn't have access to the data showing what an impact it can make. Now we have better data can we not make a more informed decision? If we can reduced the people who die from flu and covid then shouldn't we do that? Or should we only seek to change historical perspectives on certain subjects?
"Was mask wearing in Japan pre COVID mandatory? Or is it cultural? Something that has become the norm over several generations? Could the same thing happen here? My kids seem very much at ease with the new normal, so maybe it will be."
I believe it's been normalised since SARS but I don't think there was an adoption time like you are implying, people saw it made sense and went with it. It doesn't need to be mandatory because people understand that it's a good option for themselves and others. The population in the West is of a different mindset and thus it probably would need to be mandated here in the locations it was required.
"We could also save 1.35 million deaths a year in this country by banning cars. Is banning cars and only using public transport a move we should be advocating to save those lives? And where do we stop? Life has risks. Do we take away all risk and live in a bubble?"
I know you've made a mistake with these numbers by around three orders of magnitude so I don't think there is much to say here except it seems odd to compare something as simple as wearing a mask to risks taken in society in general.
"Do we introduce social distancing every winter? That will save more live lost to the flu. Do we continue to work from home every winter?"
Once again I think you are comparing larger measures to a small one like wearing a mask. However I think there is a debate to be had around social distancing in winter - do people really need to be leaning over each other in supermarkets to get things? To be honest it's pretty rude anyway, giving people space in locations where it's possible is surely just a nice thing to do? WFH is a different matter, what needs to happen there is that there should be no judgement of people who WFH to avoid spreading something they have to others in the office - historically that hasn't been the case in many workplaces.
"I was at a concert last week sitting in a hall where everyone, including myself and Mrs GB were wearing masks. As I looked around and then looked at the maskless performers on the stage I couldn't help but think it looked like something out of a sci-fi movie. Some futuristic dystopian society."
Surely this is once again back to the original point of not wanting things to change? I'm not sure wearing a small piece of cloth is anything like a dystopian society. If you visited the far east in winter would you consider them to be living in a dystopian society?
I think a dystopian society is one where loads of people are dead from a virus where the transmissions can be reduced by making a small adjustment to our lifestyle in certain places and at certain times of the year but we didn't.
"And I didn't say I find masks uncomfortable. I said I loath and detest wearing them. I find them claustrophobic. Sometimes the heat is unbearable and I get quite agitated.. Bu I do it anyway. Because I have to wear a mask as part of my job. I do so for 8 to 10 hours a day. Every day. I was wearing masks back in February last year. Long before the WHO recommended their usage.
So if just wanting us to go back to how I lived my life, and the way you lived yours, before the Pandemic makes me a selfish bastard then so be it. Shoot me for wanting to socially interact with other human beings in the way I have done for the past 50 odd years."
Once again, this goes back to the fact you only want some things to change but not others. I think my first paragraph covers this.
SB
Hi Stokie. I did say I would look at your reply and have done so. It’s odd to think that this exchange has come from a post in which I was putting another board user in his place for suggesting you should take another break from the board. You have been and remain a very good contributor to the board and I stand by my statement that your absence is always a loss to the board. And it would have been easier to have confined that post to the one comment.
But despite the “Glasgow Swerve” tag that seems to have stuck over the years, I have never been a poster who has shied away from giving an honest opinion. Sometimes too honest, which isn’t always popular.
It would also be very easy to give a dishonest opinion, take the moral high ground on this virtual world and proclaim that I am willing to do whatever is needed to help minimize the number of deaths each year from Flu.
But here we are.
I’ve had a bad pandemic. I’ve lost loved ones to Covid. I’ve been unable to see my 101 year old grandmother in Suffolk since the tail end of 2019. I doubt that I’ll see her again. I was shown a photograph of her a couple of weeks ago and I was visibly shocked how she has aged in the two years since I last saw her. My business has suffered. I doubt we will ever trade at pre pandemic levels again. Not until confidence returns. And masks are a symbol that there is still something to be afraid of (which of course there is). I’ve seen my teenage daughter’s mental health deteriorate during lengthy periods of lockdown which resulted in her starting to self harm.
I’m not looking for any sympathy here. I’m not alone. Plenty of people have suffered far worse than I have during this pandemic. Other posters on here will most likely lose loved ones in the future. This is far from over. And during this period, I have abided by every single rule that has been implemented. I never once broke lockdown rules. I have been critical of those who have. I have been critical of COVID deniers and lockdown deniers. In most discussions on here during the pandemic I doubt you could put a fag paper between both of our views on COVID.
But I have given one honest opinion. That we managed without facemasks pre pandemic and that we could again.
Considering all the above, I think I could be forgiven for wanting to return to life as it was in 2019. To no longer be reminded of this awful period we have gone through and continue to go through.
That said, you are of course right. And I am being completely selfish. In an ideal world we may be able to prevent thousands of lives lost to the flu if we continue to wear masks in the winter months. As you rightly point out, things change, and we should change when presented with the evidence to back it. But I’m human and some times human beings let off a bit of steam to express their frustrations.
When will games at Portman Road go behind closed door again? on 10:46 - Oct 29 by GlasgowBlue
Hi Stokie. I did say I would look at your reply and have done so. It’s odd to think that this exchange has come from a post in which I was putting another board user in his place for suggesting you should take another break from the board. You have been and remain a very good contributor to the board and I stand by my statement that your absence is always a loss to the board. And it would have been easier to have confined that post to the one comment.
But despite the “Glasgow Swerve” tag that seems to have stuck over the years, I have never been a poster who has shied away from giving an honest opinion. Sometimes too honest, which isn’t always popular.
It would also be very easy to give a dishonest opinion, take the moral high ground on this virtual world and proclaim that I am willing to do whatever is needed to help minimize the number of deaths each year from Flu.
But here we are.
I’ve had a bad pandemic. I’ve lost loved ones to Covid. I’ve been unable to see my 101 year old grandmother in Suffolk since the tail end of 2019. I doubt that I’ll see her again. I was shown a photograph of her a couple of weeks ago and I was visibly shocked how she has aged in the two years since I last saw her. My business has suffered. I doubt we will ever trade at pre pandemic levels again. Not until confidence returns. And masks are a symbol that there is still something to be afraid of (which of course there is). I’ve seen my teenage daughter’s mental health deteriorate during lengthy periods of lockdown which resulted in her starting to self harm.
I’m not looking for any sympathy here. I’m not alone. Plenty of people have suffered far worse than I have during this pandemic. Other posters on here will most likely lose loved ones in the future. This is far from over. And during this period, I have abided by every single rule that has been implemented. I never once broke lockdown rules. I have been critical of those who have. I have been critical of COVID deniers and lockdown deniers. In most discussions on here during the pandemic I doubt you could put a fag paper between both of our views on COVID.
But I have given one honest opinion. That we managed without facemasks pre pandemic and that we could again.
Considering all the above, I think I could be forgiven for wanting to return to life as it was in 2019. To no longer be reminded of this awful period we have gone through and continue to go through.
That said, you are of course right. And I am being completely selfish. In an ideal world we may be able to prevent thousands of lives lost to the flu if we continue to wear masks in the winter months. As you rightly point out, things change, and we should change when presented with the evidence to back it. But I’m human and some times human beings let off a bit of steam to express their frustrations.
Thanks for your honest reply.
I totally agree that the pandemic has been hard for everyone, there certainly issues around lockdowns which everyone acknowledges and which it seems have effective your family greatly. I also sympathise with being unable to see elderly relatives, I had to cancel a trip to the US to see my 93 year old gran during the pandemic.
The debate I wanted to have was not around full-scale lockdowns (which shouldn't be needed unless we get an absolutely savage variant evolve) but more about what we can do as a society moving forward to simply make things better for everyone. I fully understand the iconography of masks could upset some people but I believe there are equally people who will feel safer when they see others with masks.
I'll leave my closing statement that whilst masks might be annoying and have unwelcome connotations, they are a simple, cheap and in the end harmless way of stopping the spread of respiratory viruses. They have taken this message onboard in Asia and I am hopeful we may follow suit. Stopping people from getting flu not only saves lives but also frees up the NHS to do other things which is also of importance to many.
Hence, whilst I know it's deeply uncomfortable for some, I think it's a debate we should seriously have a society. We won't of course but that's my view.
SB
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When will games at Portman Road go behind closed door again? on 13:54 - Oct 29 with 1049 views
When will games at Portman Road go behind closed door again? on 13:50 - Oct 29 by StokieBlue
Thanks for your honest reply.
I totally agree that the pandemic has been hard for everyone, there certainly issues around lockdowns which everyone acknowledges and which it seems have effective your family greatly. I also sympathise with being unable to see elderly relatives, I had to cancel a trip to the US to see my 93 year old gran during the pandemic.
The debate I wanted to have was not around full-scale lockdowns (which shouldn't be needed unless we get an absolutely savage variant evolve) but more about what we can do as a society moving forward to simply make things better for everyone. I fully understand the iconography of masks could upset some people but I believe there are equally people who will feel safer when they see others with masks.
I'll leave my closing statement that whilst masks might be annoying and have unwelcome connotations, they are a simple, cheap and in the end harmless way of stopping the spread of respiratory viruses. They have taken this message onboard in Asia and I am hopeful we may follow suit. Stopping people from getting flu not only saves lives but also frees up the NHS to do other things which is also of importance to many.
Hence, whilst I know it's deeply uncomfortable for some, I think it's a debate we should seriously have a society. We won't of course but that's my view.
SB
It's not that we (in the UK, in the West?) won't have that debate, it's because as a society instilled with ideas of personal liberty, we actually can't have that debate, as the frame of reference will be so foreign to most people...
You are the obsolete SRN4 to my Fairey Rotodyne....
When will games at Portman Road go behind closed door again? on 13:54 - Oct 29 by Ewan_Oozami
It's not that we (in the UK, in the West?) won't have that debate, it's because as a society instilled with ideas of personal liberty, we actually can't have that debate, as the frame of reference will be so foreign to most people...
Certainly some truth in that, however surely the time to have the debate is now, when people do have a recent frame of reference with regards to covid. The cry of liberty is far too easy for people to hide behind, we need to be more adult as a society and have the difficult conversations like we are with other subjects.
If we were to try and have the debate in a few years time then I think it's even less likely to gain and traction and people will ignore the flu and covid deaths in the country each year.
SB
1
When will games at Portman Road go behind closed door again? on 14:03 - Oct 29 with 1033 views
When will games at Portman Road go behind closed door again? on 13:59 - Oct 29 by StokieBlue
Certainly some truth in that, however surely the time to have the debate is now, when people do have a recent frame of reference with regards to covid. The cry of liberty is far too easy for people to hide behind, we need to be more adult as a society and have the difficult conversations like we are with other subjects.
If we were to try and have the debate in a few years time then I think it's even less likely to gain and traction and people will ignore the flu and covid deaths in the country each year.
SB
That's a very good point, but given the state of our Government and media, I won't be holding my breath!
You are the obsolete SRN4 to my Fairey Rotodyne....
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