| Harris done deal 22:56 - Dec 13 with 17009 views | portmanking |
Rumours gathering pace on WhatsApp among a few people I know connected to the club that it's sorted. Bircham could indeed be part of Harris' coaching setup, which could explain his odds with the bookies.
If this does have legs, I have to say I'm truly, truly gutted we've chucked Cookie for this lot. |  | | |  |
| Harris done deal on 09:12 - Dec 14 with 2110 views | itfcjoe |
| Harris done deal on 08:42 - Dec 14 by tractorboy1978 |
I'll be interested to see what success and failure is deemed as until the end of the season now. |
I think it's clear what success is....! |  |
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| Harris done deal on 09:17 - Dec 14 with 2032 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Harris done deal on 09:12 - Dec 14 by itfcjoe |
I think it's clear what success is....! |
When a new man could average 2 points a game and very realistically still fall just short of the play-offs, you are asking a lot! Any new manager is going to have to spin things around very, very quickly. Would Harris take a contract with a break clause in 6 months? Possibly. I just really don't think he is the long term solution, assuming it is him. | | | |
| Harris done deal on 09:22 - Dec 14 with 1990 views | BondiBlue |
| Harris done deal on 09:17 - Dec 14 by tractorboy1978 |
When a new man could average 2 points a game and very realistically still fall just short of the play-offs, you are asking a lot! Any new manager is going to have to spin things around very, very quickly. Would Harris take a contract with a break clause in 6 months? Possibly. I just really don't think he is the long term solution, assuming it is him. |
I don't think many people are arguing that he's the long-term solution. The first part of many different parts of the long-term solution perhaps. | |
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| Harris done deal on 09:27 - Dec 14 with 1953 views | itfcjoe |
| Harris done deal on 09:17 - Dec 14 by tractorboy1978 |
When a new man could average 2 points a game and very realistically still fall just short of the play-offs, you are asking a lot! Any new manager is going to have to spin things around very, very quickly. Would Harris take a contract with a break clause in 6 months? Possibly. I just really don't think he is the long term solution, assuming it is him. |
What is the long term though? It's very unlikely the man we appoint now will take us to the Premier League.
If Harris can get us up, keep us up and stabilise us in the Championship then he has done his job - is he capable of that? Yes. Will he do it if he gets the job? WHo knows | |
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| Harris done deal on 09:27 - Dec 14 with 1947 views | greyhound |
| Harris done deal on 09:17 - Dec 14 by tractorboy1978 |
When a new man could average 2 points a game and very realistically still fall just short of the play-offs, you are asking a lot! Any new manager is going to have to spin things around very, very quickly. Would Harris take a contract with a break clause in 6 months? Possibly. I just really don't think he is the long term solution, assuming it is him. |
We've got owners that have stated they won't employ patience (cooks sacking backs this really, especially with fan reaction now pointing to people believing in time he would of got it right)
We have a team that can't string 3 wins together, are not really in the goals at the moment, and have a defence that choose to switch off at any set piece.
Averaging 2 points per game couldn't be further from where we currently are, I'm not sure if januarary will be a time for big investment to turn the ship either. Squad registration rules seriously limit possibilities here. I can see a new man working within constraints with maybe a couple of changes forced by loan returns and maybe a summer addition being shipped. With little to no improvement though this could end up. Being one of the shortest and most toxic tenures I can remember... Flip that in its head though. This will go down as a mark Ashton masterstroke all hail the new king. | | | |
| Harris done deal on 09:28 - Dec 14 with 1939 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Harris done deal on 09:22 - Dec 14 by BondiBlue |
I don't think many people are arguing that he's the long-term solution. The first part of many different parts of the long-term solution perhaps. |
What happens if we don't go up though? Is he sacked and we start again in the summer with a more progressive coach? 'It takes time to gel and get ideas across' and rinse and repeat?
I'd far rather we appointed the type of coach we want long term and took the get promoted within the next 18 months view personally.
This could all be a pointless discussion if it isn't Harris...! | | | |
| Harris done deal on 09:28 - Dec 14 with 1929 views | Metal_Hacker |
Far from my choice but the alternatives are as uninspiring
Pointless suggesting you’d prefer Cook because 1) he’s gone and 2) his record with us proceeds etc
I guess if Harris and his team make us competitive and manages to get us up (doubtful) this season or no later than next out of this blôôdy awful league I’m really not arÅ›ed. The proposed long term goal and plan from the new owners hasn’t changed MUCH. The bigger detail being they want to get us up the leagues is still priority - the background stuff for me right now can wait. Just get us out of this God damn league
If Harris is the man with an unattractive style then so be it
If he’s not he’ll be handed his P45
Again I’ll add , not my choice , uninspiring but let’s give him 100% and if he’s successful fantastic |  |
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| Harris done deal on 09:37 - Dec 14 with 1874 views | JeanManuelThetis |
| Harris done deal on 09:27 - Dec 14 by itfcjoe |
What is the long term though? It's very unlikely the man we appoint now will take us to the Premier League.
If Harris can get us up, keep us up and stabilise us in the Championship then he has done his job - is he capable of that? Yes. Will he do it if he gets the job? WHo knows |
Ok, so let's say we get stable in the Championship under Harris (or other similar 'short term' manager). He is then replaced by a young exciting coach with long term potential. a) how long will it take to re-work the entire squad and ethos to their style and b) what if we are then relegated back to League One?
That doesn't sound like a long term plan to me. |  | | |
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| Harris done deal on 09:38 - Dec 14 with 1853 views | BondiBlue |
| Harris done deal on 09:28 - Dec 14 by tractorboy1978 |
What happens if we don't go up though? Is he sacked and we start again in the summer with a more progressive coach? 'It takes time to gel and get ideas across' and rinse and repeat?
I'd far rather we appointed the type of coach we want long term and took the get promoted within the next 18 months view personally.
This could all be a pointless discussion if it isn't Harris...! |
It's a good point. I'd guess yes, he would be. This lot are impatient, which must be why they sacked cook. | |
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| Harris done deal on 09:40 - Dec 14 with 1818 views | JeanManuelThetis |
| Harris done deal on 09:28 - Dec 14 by tractorboy1978 |
What happens if we don't go up though? Is he sacked and we start again in the summer with a more progressive coach? 'It takes time to gel and get ideas across' and rinse and repeat?
I'd far rather we appointed the type of coach we want long term and took the get promoted within the next 18 months view personally.
This could all be a pointless discussion if it isn't Harris...! |
Spot on. A short term fix is arguably riskier than a thoughtful long term appointment. It may workout, or it may backfire spectacularly. | | | |
| Harris done deal on 09:41 - Dec 14 with 1800 views | itfcjoe |
| Harris done deal on 09:37 - Dec 14 by JeanManuelThetis |
Ok, so let's say we get stable in the Championship under Harris (or other similar 'short term' manager). He is then replaced by a young exciting coach with long term potential. a) how long will it take to re-work the entire squad and ethos to their style and b) what if we are then relegated back to League One?
That doesn't sound like a long term plan to me. |
How do we build a squad in this league that will be able to survive failed promotion attempts without being ripped up every summer? No long term plan involves anything built in this league, it's next to impossible
Nothing about turning a League 1 club into a Premier League club is easy, but we have recruited to get out of this league, and to then sort it out later - the majority of our signings are of an age where they likely have no real potential to play in the top end of the Championship - this is about the here and now, and getting out of this league.
Squads turnover quickly, implementing an ethos and style at a higher level with a bit of money behind us is not something we've had the ability to do previously | |
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| Harris done deal on 09:42 - Dec 14 with 1793 views | Metal_Hacker |
| Harris done deal on 09:38 - Dec 14 by BondiBlue |
It's a good point. I'd guess yes, he would be. This lot are impatient, which must be why they sacked cook. |
My thought process is if we get the manager “we want “ and play the football we all crave , we’ll be in this league even longer.
Total football isn’t going to get us out of this league IMO
Look at Rotherham , Wycombe to name just two - up there , fighting and looking strong. | |
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| Harris done deal on 09:46 - Dec 14 with 1752 views | BondiBlue |
| Harris done deal on 09:41 - Dec 14 by itfcjoe |
How do we build a squad in this league that will be able to survive failed promotion attempts without being ripped up every summer? No long term plan involves anything built in this league, it's next to impossible
Nothing about turning a League 1 club into a Premier League club is easy, but we have recruited to get out of this league, and to then sort it out later - the majority of our signings are of an age where they likely have no real potential to play in the top end of the Championship - this is about the here and now, and getting out of this league.
Squads turnover quickly, implementing an ethos and style at a higher level with a bit of money behind us is not something we've had the ability to do previously |
Yep - we can't even keep the decent youngsters more than a year (downes, dozzell etc.) and the 16-year olds who you'd think could be persuaded by the promise of a pathway would rather go play premier league u21s league (gibbs). | |
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| Harris done deal on 09:47 - Dec 14 with 1748 views | DMDC |
l so hope this is wrong. |  | | |
| Harris done deal on 09:47 - Dec 14 with 1740 views | JeanManuelThetis |
| Harris done deal on 09:41 - Dec 14 by itfcjoe |
How do we build a squad in this league that will be able to survive failed promotion attempts without being ripped up every summer? No long term plan involves anything built in this league, it's next to impossible
Nothing about turning a League 1 club into a Premier League club is easy, but we have recruited to get out of this league, and to then sort it out later - the majority of our signings are of an age where they likely have no real potential to play in the top end of the Championship - this is about the here and now, and getting out of this league.
Squads turnover quickly, implementing an ethos and style at a higher level with a bit of money behind us is not something we've had the ability to do previously |
That is a fair point. For example there would be no point comparing the 'MM to Hurst' transition to the current situation, as regardless of how poor Hurst was, there was zero structure or budget at the club.
I still feel a short term fix of manager paradoxically feels like a riskier business decision then a long term manager. It's possible there literally isn't the long term option available at the moment, or one that would be attracted to Ipswich right now. [Post edited 14 Dec 2021 9:48]
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| Harris done deal on 09:53 - Dec 14 with 1691 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Harris done deal on 09:27 - Dec 14 by itfcjoe |
What is the long term though? It's very unlikely the man we appoint now will take us to the Premier League.
If Harris can get us up, keep us up and stabilise us in the Championship then he has done his job - is he capable of that? Yes. Will he do it if he gets the job? WHo knows |
When teams go up from L1 and then get promoted from the Championship fairly quickly that tends to be the case - Norwich, Southampton, Sheff Utd, Bournemouth, Coventry in and around it this season. Teams go up with an identity and build on it.
I do agree Harris is capable of the kind of job you say, but then I'm not convinced he's any more likely to do it in any quicker time than a host of other candidates that feel a better fit. | | | |
| Harris done deal on 09:54 - Dec 14 with 1672 views | portmanking |
| Harris done deal on 09:53 - Dec 14 by tractorboy1978 |
When teams go up from L1 and then get promoted from the Championship fairly quickly that tends to be the case - Norwich, Southampton, Sheff Utd, Bournemouth, Coventry in and around it this season. Teams go up with an identity and build on it.
I do agree Harris is capable of the kind of job you say, but then I'm not convinced he's any more likely to do it in any quicker time than a host of other candidates that feel a better fit. |
That is my biggest fear with all this.
It IS possible to build and hone your identity in League 1. As you've just said, with Coventry the most recent proof of that. If we're pinning our hopes on Harris getting us up then binning him off and evolving, didn't we technically do the same when Hurst came in for Mick? | | | |
| Harris done deal on 09:58 - Dec 14 with 1632 views | clive_baker |
| Harris done deal on 09:17 - Dec 14 by tractorboy1978 |
When a new man could average 2 points a game and very realistically still fall just short of the play-offs, you are asking a lot! Any new manager is going to have to spin things around very, very quickly. Would Harris take a contract with a break clause in 6 months? Possibly. I just really don't think he is the long term solution, assuming it is him. |
I think it's unrealistic to expect any new manager to come in now and overturn a 10 point gap, with 24 games left, on sides who are accruing points at a good rate. Aside from Plymouth, none of the top 8 have lost any of their last 5 games. It's one thing getting us going to keep pace, but to close nigh on 0.5 ppg and on so many sides, is frankly highly unlikely.
For me success would be to stamp a style on our side and a philosophy, and to climb the table. Whether its top 6 or not, we need to show progress over the next 5 months and give us the reasons to believe that with a few personnel changes in the summer, we will be legitimate contenders for the top 2 next season.
For me it's an 18 month assignment. |  |
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| Harris done deal on 10:08 - Dec 14 with 1571 views | itfcjoe |
| Harris done deal on 09:53 - Dec 14 by tractorboy1978 |
When teams go up from L1 and then get promoted from the Championship fairly quickly that tends to be the case - Norwich, Southampton, Sheff Utd, Bournemouth, Coventry in and around it this season. Teams go up with an identity and build on it.
I do agree Harris is capable of the kind of job you say, but then I'm not convinced he's any more likely to do it in any quicker time than a host of other candidates that feel a better fit. |
The Norwich, Southampton and Bournemouth examples are so long ago now, especially the first 2 to almost be irrelevant though.
Sheffield United were not a pretty side to watch, they were a hard battling side first and foremost with a bit of quality added in McGoldrick. Harris' Millwall came 8th after promotion as an example and Coventry got a long way to go.
I think someone like QPR end up being the model, established for a while then a Warburton has come in and slowly changed them round to now looking a good side.
It will be bumpy along the way, as we have shown so far, but we simply have to get out of this league and get settled int he Championshp | |
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| Harris done deal on 10:09 - Dec 14 with 1554 views | portmanking |
| Harris done deal on 10:08 - Dec 14 by itfcjoe |
The Norwich, Southampton and Bournemouth examples are so long ago now, especially the first 2 to almost be irrelevant though.
Sheffield United were not a pretty side to watch, they were a hard battling side first and foremost with a bit of quality added in McGoldrick. Harris' Millwall came 8th after promotion as an example and Coventry got a long way to go.
I think someone like QPR end up being the model, established for a while then a Warburton has come in and slowly changed them round to now looking a good side.
It will be bumpy along the way, as we have shown so far, but we simply have to get out of this league and get settled int he Championshp |
But the Championship is even more unforgiving as a league now than when we were last in it. If we're thinking of radically changing our style/manager in 18-24 months' time from Harris, it could be even riskier than replacing Mick with Hurst. | | | |
| Harris done deal on 10:16 - Dec 14 with 1519 views | itfcjoe |
| Harris done deal on 10:09 - Dec 14 by portmanking |
But the Championship is even more unforgiving as a league now than when we were last in it. If we're thinking of radically changing our style/manager in 18-24 months' time from Harris, it could be even riskier than replacing Mick with Hurst. |
The big change from Mick to Hurst was that we went from having one of the lowest wage budgets in the league to having an ever lower one and a manager who didn't have the track record to question it or deal with it
You have to trust the team here now to recruit better, both in terms of manager and players | |
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| Harris done deal on 10:22 - Dec 14 with 1470 views | monty_radio |
| Harris done deal on 23:59 - Dec 13 by Churchman |
I’m in. Pitchfork ready, flaming torch lit! Harris out! Booooo!
I do love to give somebody a chance…. |
I'm in, as another extra on the Hammer Films set. Let's march up the hill to Woodbridge Manor (metaphorically speaking) and throw the first helpless servant we meet into the moat. | |
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| Harris done deal on 10:25 - Dec 14 with 1450 views | nodge_blue |
I'm trying not to give a knee jerk reaction to it all cos right now I feel like throwing my toys out of the pram.
I had s few doubts cos of Omicron about going Saturday and I'm not sure I can stomach having to applaud the new owners and manager.
One toy out of the pram |  |
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| Harris done deal on 10:53 - Dec 14 with 1339 views | Cafe_Newman |
| Harris done deal on 03:59 - Dec 14 by Guthrum |
Why would it be madness? Clubs buy players to get promoted and change them as they move up the divisions, why not managers also?
If you mean the apparent change of style from Cook to Harris, yes that would be rather zany after hiring all those players for the former's system. But we don't know how Harris (if it is he) has sold his vision for the team or what promises he's made - given it's been suggested to be a Head Coach role rather than an outright Manager. |
I'm not looking for a scrap here but I think it's madness for a number of reasons.
We're looking for success and that requires a certain stability. I can't see why you'd employ someone who's good enough to man-manage an inherited team to success to get you out of a division only to say to them in mid April the following year while we're sitting in 13th place "Thanks, you've done your job, you've stabilised the club, the players enjoyed playing for you but now we're going to find someone else who can work with the same team you inherited and developed but only better than you." Or "Thanks, you've done your job, you've stabilised the club but now we're going to find someone else who'll have a blank cheque to build the team they want."
If that was the plan, I can't see what young aspiring manager/coach would buy into it (if the plan was explained to him), nor can I see it being good for the image of the owners.
Also, I'm assuming that there won't be huge additions to the squad again, so if Harris (if it's him) gets us promoted, he'll have shown his ability to manage a bunch of individuals he inherited to success. I suspect that involves a bit more managerial/coaching skill than just changing the formation to playing with up front a bit more frequently. That sounds like a person with the sort of skills we'd do well to hang on to.
Finally, I can't see the sense in it being a short/mid term PLAN. It might transpire that after having got promoted quickly, the owners might see that challenging for further promotion the following year is beyond his abilities and might swoop for a vacant manager who ticks all the right boxes, who just happens to want to try his luck at Ipswich - but it's not a plan - not in my book anyway. |  | | |
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