| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up 07:54 - Dec 16 with 4718 views | Dubtractor |
Twice it has happened with Hurst and Cook, and twice we've taken a stable if unspectacular team and ended up a mess with a load of players no better, or worse, than we had before.
Ashton, and Evans before him, are obviously culpable too.
Obviously we've signed some decent players last summer, but bloody hell we've signed some dross too, and such wholesale change has left us an incoherent mess. And that was the case under Cook too, even it never got as bad as last night.
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| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 09:16 - Dec 16 with 1182 views | itfcserbia |
| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 09:05 - Dec 16 by wkj |
If I am not mistaken, I think Bishop and Downes were considering their future long before Cook was on the radar. |
I think what he was trying to say is maybe a better manager could have persuaded them and stabilize the team rather than tell them off. [Post edited 16 Dec 2021 9:19]
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| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 09:42 - Dec 16 with 1140 views | itfcjoe |
It's nearly always a bad strategy, and usually here - like everything else - it has been badly executed.
Manager's should not get the power they have, and I hope the next one doesn't get it - whatever Ashton's failings or successes, you need one person guiding the ship who is here for the long term and not a bad run away from the sack
We all hoped the summer changeover would be the last one, it still could easily be if we get the next appointment right |  |
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| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 09:44 - Dec 16 with 1134 views | itfcjoe |
| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 08:32 - Dec 16 by Metal_Hacker |
I really have no connection with any of the players
No connection at all , no favourite player,not one I look forward to seeing ,not one I can bank on,not one I can say is proud to wear the blue shirt
Sad times |
That's certainly not fair on Macauley Bonne | |
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| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 09:45 - Dec 16 with 1131 views | The_Realist_09 |
We're in a transitional period. We need to establish a club identity under the new owners and recruit staff to match this.
From here you can then develop a recruitment model which targets players of certain characteristics to fit the mould.
We seem a bit all over the place at the moment. |  | | |
| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 09:46 - Dec 16 with 1134 views | FevsBCFC |
| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 09:42 - Dec 16 by itfcjoe |
It's nearly always a bad strategy, and usually here - like everything else - it has been badly executed.
Manager's should not get the power they have, and I hope the next one doesn't get it - whatever Ashton's failings or successes, you need one person guiding the ship who is here for the long term and not a bad run away from the sack
We all hoped the summer changeover would be the last one, it still could easily be if we get the next appointment right |
A manager doesn’t get to be a “demolition man” without full support of the board….least of all where the board contains the CEO who cannot help himself from being heavily involved in recruitment.
Cook at fault, absolutely, but he’s not the only one is he? |  | | |
| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 09:48 - Dec 16 with 1123 views | Steve_M |
| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 09:46 - Dec 16 by FevsBCFC |
A manager doesn’t get to be a “demolition man” without full support of the board….least of all where the board contains the CEO who cannot help himself from being heavily involved in recruitment.
Cook at fault, absolutely, but he’s not the only one is he? |
I know you want to blame Ashton for everything but I think timing, and the fact Cook was appointed by Evans with the usual free reign he allowed them, and Ashton only formally started in the Summer gave Cook free reign.
Quite sure that had Ashton blocked what Cook wanted to do many would use that as an argument against him. |  |
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| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 09:49 - Dec 16 with 1121 views | chicoazul |
| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 09:46 - Dec 16 by FevsBCFC |
A manager doesn’t get to be a “demolition man” without full support of the board….least of all where the board contains the CEO who cannot help himself from being heavily involved in recruitment.
Cook at fault, absolutely, but he’s not the only one is he? |
Do shut up and go away mate. |  |
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| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 09:49 - Dec 16 with 1115 views | patrickswell |
| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 08:07 - Dec 16 by wkj |
I agree:
Keane did it
Hurst did it
Cook had to do it - but went too gungho.
Who actually feels a connection to ITFC out of our current squad? Nolan? Toto? Donacien?
That is about all I can think of. |
Nolan has never felt any connection to ITFC. He looks like he wants to throw up anytime he takes to the pitch for us. Nsiala’s time here has been utterly miserable, but at least he stops giving away penalties simply for standing in the penalty area. |  | | |
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| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 09:50 - Dec 16 with 1115 views | itfcjoe |
| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 09:05 - Dec 16 by wkj |
If I am not mistaken, I think Bishop and Downes were considering their future long before Cook was on the radar. |
I don't know re Bishop, but could we have not sold Downes the sales pitch (and no doubt wages) that persuaded likes of Celina, Chaplin, Morsy, etc to drop into League 1?
But we didn't want to keep him, we wanted shiny new things | |
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| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 09:50 - Dec 16 with 1112 views | tractorboy1978 |
| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 09:49 - Dec 16 by chicoazul |
Do shut up and go away mate. |
He will be scuttling back to OTIB shortly to report his findings. | | | |
| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 09:52 - Dec 16 with 1097 views | Metal_Hacker |
| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 09:44 - Dec 16 by itfcjoe |
That's certainly not fair on Macauley Bonne |
I partially see your point Joe BUT...he's not ours is he |  |
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| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 09:52 - Dec 16 with 1101 views | itfcjoe |
| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 09:46 - Dec 16 by FevsBCFC |
A manager doesn’t get to be a “demolition man” without full support of the board….least of all where the board contains the CEO who cannot help himself from being heavily involved in recruitment.
Cook at fault, absolutely, but he’s not the only one is he? |
Cook was talking like this and throwing the players under the bus before the takeover even went through, let alone before Ashton was in place | |
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| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 09:52 - Dec 16 with 1077 views | ElephantintheRoom |
Well yes - that is startlingly obvious and lest we forget many on here applauded the insanity and called it a much needed reboot or words to that effect..
You could add the reason for the decline since the sell out to Evans has been the churn of players and senseless abuse of the loan system which has prevented Town from building a team who actually understand each other.
Ironically towards the end of the McCarthy era and during the Lambert era a bit of cohesive team building was going on - there were actually some players who came thriugh the academy or who had been here three years.
Just to make you fee worse.... Toto, Nolan and Donacien - perhaps three of the players singled out for representing Hurst - and top of 'supporters'' list for the cull when the Crumbling Cookie arrived - I doubt any of those three really like it here or feel they belong.... ad now there are a huge raft of newcomers who will be feeling just the same and wont be going anywhere soon | |
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| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 09:53 - Dec 16 with 1084 views | wkj |
| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 09:50 - Dec 16 by itfcjoe |
I don't know re Bishop, but could we have not sold Downes the sales pitch (and no doubt wages) that persuaded likes of Celina, Chaplin, Morsy, etc to drop into League 1?
But we didn't want to keep him, we wanted shiny new things |
Let's be honest about Downes - It was seen as mutually beneficial at the time. Downes checked out last season and was a shadow of his normal self. Did he really justify a wage hike on his performance last season? |  |
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| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 09:54 - Dec 16 with 1076 views | StokieBlue |
| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 08:14 - Dec 16 by FightingEssex |
Decent? Aside from Edmondson, Burns and Bonne (a loan) who did we sign that's really shown anything decent at all? Walton is okay, Celina has had flashes, Aluko has done okay, Chaplin has had moments but the likes of Hladky, Penny, Harper, Evans, Piggott, Fraser, Barry (remember him), Carroll, Burgess, Coulson, Edwards and Morsy... they have been broadly absolutely atrocious for us. Championship side in waiting? I bet we'd be 12th in the league below with these lot. I also stand by the fact we didn't upgrade, our backline with Holy, Ward, Chambers, Woolfie, Wilson, Kenlock and co was much more solid than what we have now, as proven by how much better they did, we didn't upgrade on Downes, Dozzell and Bishop at all, so we lost a core of decent midfielders and replace it with some of the worse we have ever seen.
The bomb squad was a myth that Cook created and people bought because it was much easier to believe that than the fact Cook without Richardson was not going to deliver here. |
That's a very harsh appraisal of Celina.
He's done much better than "had flashes".
Walton is clearly far better than "OK".
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| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 09:56 - Dec 16 with 1066 views | StokieBlue |
| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 09:50 - Dec 16 by itfcjoe |
I don't know re Bishop, but could we have not sold Downes the sales pitch (and no doubt wages) that persuaded likes of Celina, Chaplin, Morsy, etc to drop into League 1?
But we didn't want to keep him, we wanted shiny new things |
Downes had been trying to leave for 2 years though, his mind seemed pretty much made up. He'd shown no commitment to the club over those 2 years when pushing for a transfer.
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| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 09:58 - Dec 16 with 1058 views | Herbivore |
| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 09:56 - Dec 16 by StokieBlue |
Downes had been trying to leave for 2 years though, his mind seemed pretty much made up. He'd shown no commitment to the club over those 2 years when pushing for a transfer.
SB |
It was one year and he was out injured for most of it. Think there is a degree of revisionism over the Downes situation. We had a bid from a Prem side, he was interested (hardly surprising) and he left the following summer after a disrupted year, it's not like he was half arsing it week in and week out for ages. |  |
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| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 10:00 - Dec 16 with 1045 views | StokieBlue |
| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 09:58 - Dec 16 by Herbivore |
It was one year and he was out injured for most of it. Think there is a degree of revisionism over the Downes situation. We had a bid from a Prem side, he was interested (hardly surprising) and he left the following summer after a disrupted year, it's not like he was half arsing it week in and week out for ages. |
Not convinced by that Herbs.
He clearly wanted away once his head was turned. Couldn't really blame him at the time but isn't it also a bit revisionist to push the narrative that he could have been sold the project?
As far as I can tell there is no evidence at all to support that position?
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| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 10:04 - Dec 16 with 1020 views | Herbivore |
| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 10:00 - Dec 16 by StokieBlue |
Not convinced by that Herbs.
He clearly wanted away once his head was turned. Couldn't really blame him at the time but isn't it also a bit revisionist to push the narrative that he could have been sold the project?
As far as I can tell there is no evidence at all to support that position?
SB |
That we could have tried to sell him the project isn't really beyond doubt, whether he'd have been sold is speculation either way. Personally I think it's unlikely after what went down under Cook last season but we could have tried had we really wanted to. The problem was that Cook went balls deep on blaming EVERYTHING on that group of players and he backed himself into a corner as a result. The scale of the upheaval over the summer was a choice, though one Cook had little option not to take given what happened in the latter part of last season. | |
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| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 10:10 - Dec 16 with 1013 views | gordon |
| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 10:04 - Dec 16 by Herbivore |
That we could have tried to sell him the project isn't really beyond doubt, whether he'd have been sold is speculation either way. Personally I think it's unlikely after what went down under Cook last season but we could have tried had we really wanted to. The problem was that Cook went balls deep on blaming EVERYTHING on that group of players and he backed himself into a corner as a result. The scale of the upheaval over the summer was a choice, though one Cook had little option not to take given what happened in the latter part of last season. |
I think if Cook hadn't thrown the players right under the bus to protect his own ego in those first few months, then anything would've been possible - make Downes captain and give him a good contract, tell him he's the most important player in the team - if he still wants to leave then fair enough. |  | | |
| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 10:12 - Dec 16 with 1006 views | StokieBlue |
| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 10:04 - Dec 16 by Herbivore |
That we could have tried to sell him the project isn't really beyond doubt, whether he'd have been sold is speculation either way. Personally I think it's unlikely after what went down under Cook last season but we could have tried had we really wanted to. The problem was that Cook went balls deep on blaming EVERYTHING on that group of players and he backed himself into a corner as a result. The scale of the upheaval over the summer was a choice, though one Cook had little option not to take given what happened in the latter part of last season. |
Certainly Cook made some big mistakes, I'm just doubtful that Downes really wanted to be here playing in League One when he could be a starter in the Championship.
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| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 10:15 - Dec 16 with 1002 views | Herbivore |
| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 10:12 - Dec 16 by StokieBlue |
Certainly Cook made some big mistakes, I'm just doubtful that Downes really wanted to be here playing in League One when he could be a starter in the Championship.
SB |
I guess we'll never know but for me he'd be a massive upgrade on anything we have in midfield so it's a shame we just waved him off and didn't see whether he could be persuaded to stay, especially when we only got about £1.5m for him. | |
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| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 12:18 - Dec 16 with 914 views | Dubtractor |
| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 09:16 - Dec 16 by ArnieM |
Who out of Lamberts squad would you have kept ? |
Look, I'm not for one minute saying we had a team of world beaters, but we would be in a much better place right now if we supplemented more of last season's squad with the better players we have signed, and we'd have had a much better continuity rather than 5 months of 'we're still gelling excuses'.
If we'd have kept a few of those we were desperate to ship out, instead of signing people like Carroll, Burgess, Penney, Hladky etc then we'd have saved some money and kept a bit of identity.
Cook was so desperate so throw his wrecking ball around and someone should have kept him in check. Much like Evans should have with Hurst, and Keane too as has been mentioned. | |
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| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 13:54 - Dec 16 with 860 views | Sharkey |
| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 08:46 - Dec 16 by wkj |
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. When I said gungho, I meant in relation to what you're saying with your post.
Doz, Bishop, Edwards and Downes
I doubt Cook had much choice here to be honest, all four were likely wanting out.
Skuse, Sears, Chambers, Judge
All four of our elders are struggling in L2 - I think these were justified releases
Lankester, Ward, Pzybek, Wright
Never really cut the mustard for me
Drinan, Wilson, Folami, Nydam, Hawkins, Cornell
This is the interesting group:
Drinan - Poor conversion last season, but really good at dragging players around in deep positions. I am not just saying this as he's done well at Orient, but I have consistently believed we let go too soon.
Wilson - Player of the season, we never should have let go without having a clear replacement in first.
Foami and Nydam - I thought they were both still in development, I may be wrong but it felt odd seeing those two booted out.
Hawkins - Poor season last year, but we might have done well to work with him a little longer.
Cornell - Hindsight is wonderful, but he was more the adequate backup. Clearly Cook wanted a better goalie, but I think that is his biggest balls-up area. Hladky was rubbish, Holy was sent on loan and did well, Walton could be up there as one of the players of the season so far - which is saying something about how over worked he is.
(Breathes in, post almost done)
In short though, Cook got rid of players before he got them in - and that is stupid management of the highest degree. This is why we have a bloated attack and a paper-thin defence - they worked from the front to the back and ran out of time. |
It's not true to say the gang of four are all 'struggling'. I'm not saying he should have stayed, but Sears for one is not 'struggling' in League 2, and is enjoying playing through the middle. He'll probably finish in the top ten scorers in that league, in a pretty weak team. Even in the game at Portman Road he looked like the best forward on the pitch in the first half. Skuse has been class at League 2 level, and will be p.o.t.y. Arguably all of these players would get a game in any league 2 team, except F.G.R.'s.
Those players may not be what Town needed, (though I doubt Skuse and Sears were really as difficult to manage as some claim), but now they're playing in a not-great team with a small squad that seems to play with the hand-brake on, but it's still probably a better collection of players than the Town team that played last night, as suggested by the respective results. (Colchester were on the bus all day and won 3-2, with goals by Sears, Judge and Eastman.)
(What was reinforced last night was how much Tony Humes calls the tune in Colchester, as John McG. made more tactical switches in 90 minutes than he did in four years in north Essex.) [Post edited 16 Dec 2021 14:02]
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| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 14:13 - Dec 16 with 828 views | jayessess |
| Our Club must never again give a manager such free reign to tear the team up on 12:18 - Dec 16 by Dubtractor |
Look, I'm not for one minute saying we had a team of world beaters, but we would be in a much better place right now if we supplemented more of last season's squad with the better players we have signed, and we'd have had a much better continuity rather than 5 months of 'we're still gelling excuses'.
If we'd have kept a few of those we were desperate to ship out, instead of signing people like Carroll, Burgess, Penney, Hladky etc then we'd have saved some money and kept a bit of identity.
Cook was so desperate so throw his wrecking ball around and someone should have kept him in check. Much like Evans should have with Hurst, and Keane too as has been mentioned. |
Beyond "we should've kept X", you could make a pretty good argument that we wouldn't be significantly weaker if we'd just declined to sign those 4 entirely. |  |
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