| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour 11:49 - Jan 19 with 6316 views | GlasgowBlue |
Johnson is a gonner . |  |
| |  |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 18:58 - Jan 19 with 1652 views | GlasgowBlue |
ignore. Misread the tweet.
[Post edited 19 Jan 2022 19:01]
| |
| |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 19:03 - Jan 19 with 1642 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 13:00 - Jan 19 by GavTWTD |
Why doesn't this automatically trigger a by-election? It should, shirley?
It was good theatre albeit incredibly brief, but there will be a lot of his locals that will be annoyed by what he's done. If I voted for my local MP and he switched sides, I'd be fuming. |
....or she....or they...!  |  |
| |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 21:38 - Jan 19 with 1552 views | mylittletown |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 13:27 - Jan 19 by Guthrum |
No, because you are voting for the individual to represent you, not the party they belong to. At least, that's how it was designed and is supposed to work.
Rigid political parties (who notionally all stand for the same things on most issues) are a fairly modern construct. |
Spot on.
In our absurd and unfit for purpose electoral system, the people of Bury South did not vote Tory, as they probably thought, they voted for Christian Wakeford.
Previously the 21,632 who thought that they voted Labour, but actually voted for Lucy Burke, could reasonably claim that they were unrepresented after the 2029 election. Now the 22,034 who thought that they voted Tory could claim that they are unrepresented.
Why should a difference of 402 votes out of 50,274 leave almost half of the constituency unrepresented?
Wakeford actually won 43.8% of the votes cast, so he did not have a popular mandate.
The current electoral system needs to be replaced by some sort of proportional representation, urgently. |  | | |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 22:34 - Jan 19 with 1510 views | reusersfreekicks |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 12:34 - Jan 19 by Darth_Koont |
Certainly one of the loudest and I don’t really pay much attention to her.
But she’s right here. Going from a Conservative MP given their record to a Labour MP is problematic. And if people don’t see that, that in itself shows how used we are to the UK’s enormous democratic deficit. |
It's weird but mps have been swapping parties throughout time |  | | |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 23:10 - Jan 19 with 1475 views | Trequartista |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 21:38 - Jan 19 by mylittletown |
Spot on.
In our absurd and unfit for purpose electoral system, the people of Bury South did not vote Tory, as they probably thought, they voted for Christian Wakeford.
Previously the 21,632 who thought that they voted Labour, but actually voted for Lucy Burke, could reasonably claim that they were unrepresented after the 2029 election. Now the 22,034 who thought that they voted Tory could claim that they are unrepresented.
Why should a difference of 402 votes out of 50,274 leave almost half of the constituency unrepresented?
Wakeford actually won 43.8% of the votes cast, so he did not have a popular mandate.
The current electoral system needs to be replaced by some sort of proportional representation, urgently. |
The arguments against PR are that you lose the local mp and you'd need some sort of allocation system after the result, and you'd always have a coalition government.
Considering people vote for party and prime minister before individual mp, and the country didn't collapse when we had a coalition government, i am in favour of PR as i believe that the principle of if a party gets 30% of votes, they should have 30% of power in a democracy far outweighs the negatives described above. [Post edited 19 Jan 2022 23:12]
|  |
| |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 23:15 - Jan 19 with 1459 views | GlasgowBlue |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 22:34 - Jan 19 by reusersfreekicks |
It's weird but mps have been swapping parties throughout time |
Even Churchill did it. Twice.
Edit. Apologies to our more sensitive readers for this historical tidbit. [Post edited 19 Jan 2022 23:15]
| |
| |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 23:19 - Jan 19 with 1437 views | footers |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 23:15 - Jan 19 by GlasgowBlue |
Even Churchill did it. Twice.
Edit. Apologies to our more sensitive readers for this historical tidbit. [Post edited 19 Jan 2022 23:15]
|
You're a tw@t.
Edit: Context is everything. [Post edited 19 Jan 2022 23:21]
|  |
| |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 03:40 - Jan 20 with 1355 views | HARRY10 |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 23:10 - Jan 19 by Trequartista |
The arguments against PR are that you lose the local mp and you'd need some sort of allocation system after the result, and you'd always have a coalition government.
Considering people vote for party and prime minister before individual mp, and the country didn't collapse when we had a coalition government, i am in favour of PR as i believe that the principle of if a party gets 30% of votes, they should have 30% of power in a democracy far outweighs the negatives described above. [Post edited 19 Jan 2022 23:12]
|
eh ?
30% of power ?
what are you in about ?
if that 30% is not part of a coalition, it has no power |  | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 07:18 - Jan 20 with 1301 views | mylittletown |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 23:10 - Jan 19 by Trequartista |
The arguments against PR are that you lose the local mp and you'd need some sort of allocation system after the result, and you'd always have a coalition government.
Considering people vote for party and prime minister before individual mp, and the country didn't collapse when we had a coalition government, i am in favour of PR as i believe that the principle of if a party gets 30% of votes, they should have 30% of power in a democracy far outweighs the negatives described above. [Post edited 19 Jan 2022 23:12]
|
You don't necessarily lose the local MP idea in all forms of PR. However, I am not sure how often the local MP is actually that relevant in current times. (There are honourable exceptions)
You can make a pretty good case that many of the most successful nations on earth have coalition governments, the Scandinavian countries (usually), Germany (usually) and Japan for instance. You can also make a case that the USA has a sort of coalition most of the time because of the two houses very often being under control of the two different parties. (Not that I am holding up the USA is a great example of a successful society) | | | |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 10:24 - Jan 20 with 1218 views | Lord_Lucan |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 21:38 - Jan 19 by mylittletown |
Spot on.
In our absurd and unfit for purpose electoral system, the people of Bury South did not vote Tory, as they probably thought, they voted for Christian Wakeford.
Previously the 21,632 who thought that they voted Labour, but actually voted for Lucy Burke, could reasonably claim that they were unrepresented after the 2029 election. Now the 22,034 who thought that they voted Tory could claim that they are unrepresented.
Why should a difference of 402 votes out of 50,274 leave almost half of the constituency unrepresented?
Wakeford actually won 43.8% of the votes cast, so he did not have a popular mandate.
The current electoral system needs to be replaced by some sort of proportional representation, urgently. |
Bury South has a significant Jewish population who couldn't bring themselves to vote for Corbyn.
With such a small majority the Tories were toast as soon as Corbyn went.
The crossover was pure self interest. |  |
| |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 12:22 - Jan 20 with 1158 views | Darth_Koont |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 10:24 - Jan 20 by Lord_Lucan |
Bury South has a significant Jewish population who couldn't bring themselves to vote for Corbyn.
With such a small majority the Tories were toast as soon as Corbyn went.
The crossover was pure self interest. |
Just to add more detail. It’s socialism at the heart (even according to Wakeford) with Corbyn clearly the antichrist on top of that. The Jewish electorate had largely gone over to the Conservatives even with Miliband in charge amid concerns voiced over the direction of the party, especially regarding Gaza in 2014 and a more sympathetic position towards Palestinians.
A lurch back right under Starmer and back towards Blair (plus purging the party of socialists) changes the picture dramatically it seems.
Quite agree re: self-interest though. The whole defection and acceptance into Labour reeks of it. |  |
| |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 12:24 - Jan 20 with 1146 views | GlasgowBlue |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 12:22 - Jan 20 by Darth_Koont |
Just to add more detail. It’s socialism at the heart (even according to Wakeford) with Corbyn clearly the antichrist on top of that. The Jewish electorate had largely gone over to the Conservatives even with Miliband in charge amid concerns voiced over the direction of the party, especially regarding Gaza in 2014 and a more sympathetic position towards Palestinians.
A lurch back right under Starmer and back towards Blair (plus purging the party of socialists) changes the picture dramatically it seems.
Quite agree re: self-interest though. The whole defection and acceptance into Labour reeks of it. |
And yet Labour increased their share of the vote in Bury South by 4.7% in the General Election of 2015, under Miliband's leadership. | |
| |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 12:31 - Jan 20 with 1124 views | Darth_Koont |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 12:24 - Jan 20 by GlasgowBlue |
And yet Labour increased their share of the vote in Bury South by 4.7% in the General Election of 2015, under Miliband's leadership. |
Yes as a total. And Labour got more votes than that in 2017 and even 2019.
We’re talking about the balance of votes in a narrow majority. And I wouldn’t have considered that a particularly Jewish issue given there were also reasons why the Labour vote increased under Corbyn. But that’s coming from Wakeford himself. | |
| |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 12:34 - Jan 20 with 1109 views | chicoazul |
Pretty funny that a 2019 Tory is good enough for the Labour Party but the 2019 Labour leader isn’t. |  |
| |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 12:47 - Jan 20 with 1086 views | Clapham_Junction |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 23:10 - Jan 19 by Trequartista |
The arguments against PR are that you lose the local mp and you'd need some sort of allocation system after the result, and you'd always have a coalition government.
Considering people vote for party and prime minister before individual mp, and the country didn't collapse when we had a coalition government, i am in favour of PR as i believe that the principle of if a party gets 30% of votes, they should have 30% of power in a democracy far outweighs the negatives described above. [Post edited 19 Jan 2022 23:12]
|
Unfortunately PR doesn't seem to be very well understood in the UK. Either you have closed list PR, in which case the order of candidates is known ahead of the election. Or you have open list PR, in which you vote for a party and then rank its candidates, and the most popular candidates within each party get the seats the party wins.
Personally I've never really understood the clamour for having a single local MP. Under the current system, many people will have a local MP they didn't vote for and is unlikely to share their views on many subjects (when I was living in rural Suffolk, I would have never bothered contacting my MP as I know I'd have just been ignored). If you have PR, you will have MPs from multiple parties representing you and you can approach one you feel would be more interested in listening (and if they don't, you can go to others). |  | | |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 13:07 - Jan 20 with 1050 views | Lord_Lucan |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 12:22 - Jan 20 by Darth_Koont |
Just to add more detail. It’s socialism at the heart (even according to Wakeford) with Corbyn clearly the antichrist on top of that. The Jewish electorate had largely gone over to the Conservatives even with Miliband in charge amid concerns voiced over the direction of the party, especially regarding Gaza in 2014 and a more sympathetic position towards Palestinians.
A lurch back right under Starmer and back towards Blair (plus purging the party of socialists) changes the picture dramatically it seems.
Quite agree re: self-interest though. The whole defection and acceptance into Labour reeks of it. |
Everything is self interest, I think David David has called for every Tory leader to resign since and including John Major and we now have loads of 2019 Red Wall Tories who never thought they would get a sniff starting to sh1t themselves because they know they are screwed. The result of this is there are leaks everywhere, it's incredible. Bullying? Jesus, they should have worked under Alastair Campbell.
Bunch of self serving t0ssers the lot of them - and the media isn't far behind. | |
| |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 13:17 - Jan 20 with 1017 views | Darth_Koont |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 13:07 - Jan 20 by Lord_Lucan |
Everything is self interest, I think David David has called for every Tory leader to resign since and including John Major and we now have loads of 2019 Red Wall Tories who never thought they would get a sniff starting to sh1t themselves because they know they are screwed. The result of this is there are leaks everywhere, it's incredible. Bullying? Jesus, they should have worked under Alastair Campbell.
Bunch of self serving t0ssers the lot of them - and the media isn't far behind. |
We agree on that. Although I’d put our media ahead and really setting the standard for what follows.
An independent press is meant to hold power to account – or at least have that as an overall end result. Not largely provide cover for abuses of power and/or look after their own career and financial interests.
The revolving door between politics and the media plus the overlapping of party donor and owner interests is unbelievable. If it’s not individually corrupt, it’s certainly systemically and democratically corrupt. | |
| |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 13:41 - Jan 20 with 986 views | Lord_Lucan |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 13:17 - Jan 20 by Darth_Koont |
We agree on that. Although I’d put our media ahead and really setting the standard for what follows.
An independent press is meant to hold power to account – or at least have that as an overall end result. Not largely provide cover for abuses of power and/or look after their own career and financial interests.
The revolving door between politics and the media plus the overlapping of party donor and owner interests is unbelievable. If it’s not individually corrupt, it’s certainly systemically and democratically corrupt. |
Yes but some of the media would have known what was going on but they only choose to go live when they want to because they also act with self interest, it's human nature after all and it has been going on since year dot.
People by and large are gullible and certainly don't know the workings of No 10 (and I appreciate none of us fully do) but many people think it's a house with a garden. What it actually is is a power centre with absolute shed loads of offices - and technically I think that you could get away with a lot of the stuff which we hear about as being an extension of work in the garden. Government needs to go into work rather than work from home, same as the emergency services.
However - I cannot believe anyone thought it was acceptable to even think about taking advantage of something like that - even if it could be technically (possibly) within the law. They should 100% have led by example. [Post edited 20 Jan 2022 13:43]
| |
| |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 13:46 - Jan 20 with 979 views | hype313 |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 13:41 - Jan 20 by Lord_Lucan |
Yes but some of the media would have known what was going on but they only choose to go live when they want to because they also act with self interest, it's human nature after all and it has been going on since year dot.
People by and large are gullible and certainly don't know the workings of No 10 (and I appreciate none of us fully do) but many people think it's a house with a garden. What it actually is is a power centre with absolute shed loads of offices - and technically I think that you could get away with a lot of the stuff which we hear about as being an extension of work in the garden. Government needs to go into work rather than work from home, same as the emergency services.
However - I cannot believe anyone thought it was acceptable to even think about taking advantage of something like that - even if it could be technically (possibly) within the law. They should 100% have led by example. [Post edited 20 Jan 2022 13:43]
|
"Yes but some of the media would have known what was going on but they only choose to go live when they want to because they also act with self interest, it's human nature after all and it has been going on since year dot."
Indeed, Harry Cole the political editor of The S** kept quiet all the while Rome was burning because he was at one of these parties.
I wouldn't be surprised if Kuenssberg and Rigby were too. |  |
| |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 14:06 - Jan 20 with 962 views | tractordownsouth |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 13:46 - Jan 20 by hype313 |
"Yes but some of the media would have known what was going on but they only choose to go live when they want to because they also act with self interest, it's human nature after all and it has been going on since year dot."
Indeed, Harry Cole the political editor of The S** kept quiet all the while Rome was burning because he was at one of these parties.
I wouldn't be surprised if Kuenssberg and Rigby were too. |
I'm not sure whether to find it hilarious or tragic that Harry Cole's job is essentially to be a spin doctor for the bloke who is now married to his ex-partner. |  |
| |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 14:15 - Jan 20 with 936 views | Lord_Lucan |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 13:46 - Jan 20 by hype313 |
"Yes but some of the media would have known what was going on but they only choose to go live when they want to because they also act with self interest, it's human nature after all and it has been going on since year dot."
Indeed, Harry Cole the political editor of The S** kept quiet all the while Rome was burning because he was at one of these parties.
I wouldn't be surprised if Kuenssberg and Rigby were too. |
The same Rigby who got suspended.
If I'm honest I'm kind of a bit disheartened that so much is being made of partygate compared to Afghanistan for example - but I haven't really got any skin in the game as I haven't lost anyone from Covid and been denied seeing them off - and then again what would it have changed? I'm a bit of a pragmatist but I'm sure if I had been denied seeing my dad when he had a long suffering brain tumour I would probably think a lot different. | |
| |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 14:23 - Jan 20 with 895 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 12:31 - Jan 20 by Darth_Koont |
Yes as a total. And Labour got more votes than that in 2017 and even 2019.
We’re talking about the balance of votes in a narrow majority. And I wouldn’t have considered that a particularly Jewish issue given there were also reasons why the Labour vote increased under Corbyn. But that’s coming from Wakeford himself. |
Balance of votes? Labour increased their vote count by c2k in 2015 compared to 200 by the Tories, and a % increase as outlined by GB. In 2017 they did get a further jump but the Tories gained 5,000 votes too, and then won the seat in 2019. Pretty evident where that turnaround happened, and it wasn’t under Milliband as much as you might want to pretend otherwise |  |
| |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 14:24 - Jan 20 with 890 views | Pinewoodblue |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 14:15 - Jan 20 by Lord_Lucan |
The same Rigby who got suspended.
If I'm honest I'm kind of a bit disheartened that so much is being made of partygate compared to Afghanistan for example - but I haven't really got any skin in the game as I haven't lost anyone from Covid and been denied seeing them off - and then again what would it have changed? I'm a bit of a pragmatist but I'm sure if I had been denied seeing my dad when he had a long suffering brain tumour I would probably think a lot different. |
I didn’t get to attend my Mother’s funeral ( death not Covid related) nor funerals of friends who died of Covid but I share you views on partygate.it really is a side show compared to so many more important things, such as the ruling that the Handing out of PPE contracts was unlawful. |  |
| |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 14:35 - Jan 20 with 853 views | Darth_Koont |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 14:23 - Jan 20 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Balance of votes? Labour increased their vote count by c2k in 2015 compared to 200 by the Tories, and a % increase as outlined by GB. In 2017 they did get a further jump but the Tories gained 5,000 votes too, and then won the seat in 2019. Pretty evident where that turnaround happened, and it wasn’t under Milliband as much as you might want to pretend otherwise |
Pretty obvious that you’re pulling conclusions out of your @rse.
There are many factors between 2015 and 2019 for the numbers to change. Although the national evidence suggests that the Jewish vote had already shifted largely away from Labour in 2015.
Gaza in 2014 and its aftermath set a lot of this stuff in motion.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/maureen-lipman-says-she-can-t-vot
Including the emergence of the Campaign Against Antisemitism, the relaunch of the JLM and the ramping up of criticism of those sympathetic to Palestine. Do you honestly think any of this started with Corbyn? He was never even accused of being antiSemitic before 2015 and he became leader. | |
| |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 14:36 - Jan 20 with 848 views | tractordownsouth |
| 2019 Tory MP defects to Labour on 12:47 - Jan 20 by Clapham_Junction |
Unfortunately PR doesn't seem to be very well understood in the UK. Either you have closed list PR, in which case the order of candidates is known ahead of the election. Or you have open list PR, in which you vote for a party and then rank its candidates, and the most popular candidates within each party get the seats the party wins.
Personally I've never really understood the clamour for having a single local MP. Under the current system, many people will have a local MP they didn't vote for and is unlikely to share their views on many subjects (when I was living in rural Suffolk, I would have never bothered contacting my MP as I know I'd have just been ignored). If you have PR, you will have MPs from multiple parties representing you and you can approach one you feel would be more interested in listening (and if they don't, you can go to others). |
I like the AMS system used in Senedd elections. It's a nice balance because 40 members are elected in a constituency and then the remaining 20 are elected across the 5 different regions using a proportional system which takes into account the results in the constituency.
It works well because even though Labour won all 8 seats in South Wales Central, the region has Plaid and Tory members on the list, so it rewards Labour for success but means that voters from all 3 parties (roughly 85% of the electorate) have a local member who represents their views. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
