| The Tories and that investigation 20:42 - Jan 22 with 12635 views | Mullet |
What did come of it in the end? |  |
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| The Tories and that investigation on 18:56 - Jan 23 with 2122 views | gtsb1966 |
| The Tories and that investigation on 18:51 - Jan 23 by HARRY10 |
Chill ........oh dear
Your domestic arrangements don't remove your extreme views on immigration
and of having discussion on here is hardly 'a fight', if having that extremism pointed out is unconformable, then there is an easy answer |
Lighten up. I'm happy with my views. Do you know what they are by the way? |  | | |
| The Tories and that investigation on 19:01 - Jan 23 with 2103 views | HARRY10 |
| The Tories and that investigation on 18:56 - Jan 23 by gtsb1966 |
Lighten up. I'm happy with my views. Do you know what they are by the way? |
What's all this chill lighten up guff. You have not the slightest idea what mood I am in
whereas I know exactly what your views on immigration are, by the clever trick lf having read your numerous posts on the subject |  | | |
| The Tories and that investigation on 19:06 - Jan 23 with 2085 views | gtsb1966 |
| The Tories and that investigation on 19:01 - Jan 23 by HARRY10 |
What's all this chill lighten up guff. You have not the slightest idea what mood I am in
whereas I know exactly what your views on immigration are, by the clever trick lf having read your numerous posts on the subject |
You sit on here for a few minutes and go back through my posts and enlighten the board. I've nothing to hide. Off you go Mr Argumentative. | | | |
| The Tories and that investigation on 23:28 - Jan 23 with 1990 views | tractordownsouth |
| The Tories and that investigation on 12:55 - Jan 23 by Darth_Koont |
Islamophobia has become acceptable in the mainstream.
In fact it’s become somewhat of the establishment position. That’s why someone like Trevor Phillips can not just get away with saying things about Muslims that are incredibly racist but he’ll still be treated as a serious political pundit on TV and invited back into the Labour Party.
Of course, Islamophobia is even worse in the Tory party (just under a half of Conservative members think that Muslims are a threat to the UK) but we’ve all been waving this stuff through for years.
It’s really time to get serious about racism from an independent, evidence-based approach rather than the political football it’s become. |
I completely disagree with you on Labour anti-semitism but I struggle to see how what Trevor Phillips said was any less problematic than what other people got kicked out for. |  |
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| The Tories and that investigation on 23:47 - Jan 23 with 1961 views | Darth_Koont |
| The Tories and that investigation on 23:28 - Jan 23 by tractordownsouth |
I completely disagree with you on Labour anti-semitism but I struggle to see how what Trevor Phillips said was any less problematic than what other people got kicked out for. |
I’ll take that for now. It’s a start.
But you might want to take some time to think about why there’s such a massive discrepancy here. Plus excusing other islamophobic statements made by Blunkett and others. Not only are these people welcomed into the fold but their crimes are real rather than those who have been expelled for being anti-Zionist Jews, for example.
But I appreciate that you’re at least addressing it and not playing politics. This is an area where the values of honesty, integrity and justice are everything – and frankly politics has no part. |  |
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| The Tories and that investigation on 07:32 - Jan 24 with 1866 views | witchdoctor |
| The Tories and that investigation on 17:42 - Jan 23 by footers |
He's mates with Benters, ffs. [Post edited 23 Jan 2022 17:56]
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so are several other posters on this forum… |  | | |
| The Tories and that investigation on 07:58 - Jan 24 with 1834 views | wkj |
My mate reckons something along the lines of - This thread will be pulled, Phil will put up an 'Ahem' post, everyone will upvote it, then everyone will sneer at each other and claim the Ahem post makes em winners.
Divide and conquer is so much easier than unite and prosper.
21st century politics and social media bubbles are a blight to society - and we're all playing the game like good little sheep. |  |
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| The Tories and that investigation on 09:12 - Jan 24 with 1776 views | giant_stow |
| The Tories and that investigation on 07:58 - Jan 24 by wkj |
My mate reckons something along the lines of - This thread will be pulled, Phil will put up an 'Ahem' post, everyone will upvote it, then everyone will sneer at each other and claim the Ahem post makes em winners.
Divide and conquer is so much easier than unite and prosper.
21st century politics and social media bubbles are a blight to society - and we're all playing the game like good little sheep. |
Good post. I had a choice between agreeing with you or having a whine at Callis for his weird attack on moderates, but you've persuaded me its best left. |  |
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| The Tories and that investigation on 09:41 - Jan 24 with 1748 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The Tories and that investigation on 22:19 - Jan 22 by GlasgowBlue |
People in Tory party should listen to Conservative Muslims and support them.
Not look for an ulterior motive, as I see Fabricant is already doing. Listen and support a minority in a political party who are complaining about the discrimination and prejudice they are receiving. Not wheel out a pro Johnson Muslim and say there isn’t a problem.
Edit. Oh and those on the left who are rightfully condemning tonight's story but never said a word about what went on in the Labour Party over the past six years. Or at worst, trivialised it and attacked those who spoke out. Don’t bother contributing. [Post edited 22 Jan 2022 22:20]
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You really didn't need to use this to have a cheap dig at Labour. Particularly after all your previous shouts of whatabouterry yourself. You've let yourself down. |  |
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| The Tories and that investigation on 10:45 - Jan 24 with 1702 views | monytowbray |
| The Tories and that investigation on 07:58 - Jan 24 by wkj |
My mate reckons something along the lines of - This thread will be pulled, Phil will put up an 'Ahem' post, everyone will upvote it, then everyone will sneer at each other and claim the Ahem post makes em winners.
Divide and conquer is so much easier than unite and prosper.
21st century politics and social media bubbles are a blight to society - and we're all playing the game like good little sheep. |
Yes, let’s enable racists and let them be. Don’t worry about the fact they are literally controlling the nation RN.
You’ve ironically proved my point. Thanks.
Still waiting for a moderate to define “moderate”. [Post edited 24 Jan 2022 10:46]
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| The Tories and that investigation on 10:57 - Jan 24 with 1677 views | wkj |
| The Tories and that investigation on 10:45 - Jan 24 by monytowbray |
Yes, let’s enable racists and let them be. Don’t worry about the fact they are literally controlling the nation RN.
You’ve ironically proved my point. Thanks.
Still waiting for a moderate to define “moderate”. [Post edited 24 Jan 2022 10:46]
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Enabling racists is not a very kind thing to do. Best avoided. | |
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| The Tories and that investigation on 11:03 - Jan 24 with 1660 views | monytowbray |
| The Tories and that investigation on 10:57 - Jan 24 by wkj |
Enabling racists is not a very kind thing to do. Best avoided. |
I think you need to read a history book, look at the world and assess your place in it then. | |
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| The Tories and that investigation on 11:19 - Jan 24 with 1629 views | wkj |
| The Tories and that investigation on 11:03 - Jan 24 by monytowbray |
I think you need to read a history book, look at the world and assess your place in it then. |
Or you need to [edit] have a cup of tea [/edit] and let me make my own decisions in life. [Post edited 24 Jan 2022 11:37]
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| The Tories and that investigation on 11:34 - Jan 24 with 1592 views | witchdoctor |
| The Tories and that investigation on 11:19 - Jan 24 by wkj |
Or you need to [edit] have a cup of tea [/edit] and let me make my own decisions in life. [Post edited 24 Jan 2022 11:37]
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ðŸ‘ðŸ‘ðŸ‘ðŸ‘👠| | | |
| The Tories and that investigation on 11:40 - Jan 24 with 1566 views | monytowbray |
| The Tories and that investigation on 11:19 - Jan 24 by wkj |
Or you need to [edit] have a cup of tea [/edit] and let me make my own decisions in life. [Post edited 24 Jan 2022 11:37]
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And we loop around to the "people with opinions are SAD" point Footers made earlier.
You do what you want and live with the consequences on your shoulders. It's not my job to change your mind, I'm simply presenting my opinion on the fundamental issue of fence sitting in the current political climate. I can't force you to consider that.
You got cheered by WD who gets a bit hard every time someone swears at me though, so well done. [Post edited 24 Jan 2022 11:40]
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| The Tories and that investigation on 11:50 - Jan 24 with 1530 views | wkj |
| The Tories and that investigation on 11:40 - Jan 24 by monytowbray |
And we loop around to the "people with opinions are SAD" point Footers made earlier.
You do what you want and live with the consequences on your shoulders. It's not my job to change your mind, I'm simply presenting my opinion on the fundamental issue of fence sitting in the current political climate. I can't force you to consider that.
You got cheered by WD who gets a bit hard every time someone swears at me though, so well done. [Post edited 24 Jan 2022 11:40]
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Given your reaction - I somewhat fear you missed the context of my original post.
My use of disdain toward social media bubbles, is not disdain towards social media or people that use it, or even the conversations has on it.
Social media bubbles are created by algorithms that filter content to people based on what their data says about them. If you forced a person to only ever read the daily mail - their views would be drastically different to someone forced only ever to read the guardian. The same thing happens on mainstream social media - to the point people are not exploring the full scope of situations or objectively analysing their own points of view.
The consequences? We end up voting tribally, ignoring manifestos, supporting a cult of personality and in some cases misrepresenting people who's liberties or freedoms we're advocating for.
Not a single part of my comment is calling for tolerance of hatred or racism - it is expressing dismay towards how manipulated society has become by the endless stream of "Pop Idol" general elections and referendums - as well as the biases imposed upon us via algorithms and news companies with an axe to grind.
I'm willing to bet the vast majority of people that voted for Boris in the last G.E. were not too fussed about manifestos of either party - but rather how badly they want to 'get brexit done'. When elections are won on the back of a slogan and tribalism - we're not allowing ourselves to see the bigger picture and impact positive change. We're just locked into a tennis match of mudslinging and blame because our political deities are being dunked on. [Post edited 24 Jan 2022 11:52]
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| The Tories and that investigation on 12:13 - Jan 24 with 1464 views | Darth_Koont |
| The Tories and that investigation on 11:50 - Jan 24 by wkj |
Given your reaction - I somewhat fear you missed the context of my original post.
My use of disdain toward social media bubbles, is not disdain towards social media or people that use it, or even the conversations has on it.
Social media bubbles are created by algorithms that filter content to people based on what their data says about them. If you forced a person to only ever read the daily mail - their views would be drastically different to someone forced only ever to read the guardian. The same thing happens on mainstream social media - to the point people are not exploring the full scope of situations or objectively analysing their own points of view.
The consequences? We end up voting tribally, ignoring manifestos, supporting a cult of personality and in some cases misrepresenting people who's liberties or freedoms we're advocating for.
Not a single part of my comment is calling for tolerance of hatred or racism - it is expressing dismay towards how manipulated society has become by the endless stream of "Pop Idol" general elections and referendums - as well as the biases imposed upon us via algorithms and news companies with an axe to grind.
I'm willing to bet the vast majority of people that voted for Boris in the last G.E. were not too fussed about manifestos of either party - but rather how badly they want to 'get brexit done'. When elections are won on the back of a slogan and tribalism - we're not allowing ourselves to see the bigger picture and impact positive change. We're just locked into a tennis match of mudslinging and blame because our political deities are being dunked on. [Post edited 24 Jan 2022 11:52]
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I’d agree with most of that. I’m an avid consumer of Twitter but I’m never logged in and I spend my time reading both sides of debates.
In fact, on Twitter, here and in the media I probably spend the vast majority of the time reading posts I disagree with overall.
In monytowbray’s defence, I’m sure he does too.
What people who put themselves in the middle do need to consider is that most political news does reinforce their views and is tailored to them as a target audience and market. The resulting narrative may not be as clownish as the tabloids but there’s definitely a status quo reluctance to consider underlying problems and solutions that results. | |
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| The Tories and that investigation on 12:20 - Jan 24 with 1435 views | wkj |
| The Tories and that investigation on 12:13 - Jan 24 by Darth_Koont |
I’d agree with most of that. I’m an avid consumer of Twitter but I’m never logged in and I spend my time reading both sides of debates.
In fact, on Twitter, here and in the media I probably spend the vast majority of the time reading posts I disagree with overall.
In monytowbray’s defence, I’m sure he does too.
What people who put themselves in the middle do need to consider is that most political news does reinforce their views and is tailored to them as a target audience and market. The resulting narrative may not be as clownish as the tabloids but there’s definitely a status quo reluctance to consider underlying problems and solutions that results. |
Being in the middle doesn't necessarily mean having an opinion on most things that sits in the middle. In my case, I have very strong views about civil liberties which might be seen as leftist - but I have economic views that are not in line with socialism (as an example).
I grant you, that sometimes those two things can become contradictory with one another - so that is when the manifestos of a political party become important reading for me. I wouldn't care to accuse Callis or anyone of not reading the other point of view- however, the way these mechanisms are working makes it so the other point of view is not freely visible - depending on what social media bubble you end up getting lumped in to. | |
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| The Tories and that investigation on 12:20 - Jan 24 with 1434 views | witchdoctor |
| The Tories and that investigation on 11:40 - Jan 24 by monytowbray |
And we loop around to the "people with opinions are SAD" point Footers made earlier.
You do what you want and live with the consequences on your shoulders. It's not my job to change your mind, I'm simply presenting my opinion on the fundamental issue of fence sitting in the current political climate. I can't force you to consider that.
You got cheered by WD who gets a bit hard every time someone swears at me though, so well done. [Post edited 24 Jan 2022 11:40]
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nope..I applauded his reply to what I consider to be just about the most condescending post I’ve ever seen on here….and that’s saying something… | | | |
| The Tories and that investigation on 12:41 - Jan 24 with 1376 views | monytowbray |
| The Tories and that investigation on 11:50 - Jan 24 by wkj |
Given your reaction - I somewhat fear you missed the context of my original post.
My use of disdain toward social media bubbles, is not disdain towards social media or people that use it, or even the conversations has on it.
Social media bubbles are created by algorithms that filter content to people based on what their data says about them. If you forced a person to only ever read the daily mail - their views would be drastically different to someone forced only ever to read the guardian. The same thing happens on mainstream social media - to the point people are not exploring the full scope of situations or objectively analysing their own points of view.
The consequences? We end up voting tribally, ignoring manifestos, supporting a cult of personality and in some cases misrepresenting people who's liberties or freedoms we're advocating for.
Not a single part of my comment is calling for tolerance of hatred or racism - it is expressing dismay towards how manipulated society has become by the endless stream of "Pop Idol" general elections and referendums - as well as the biases imposed upon us via algorithms and news companies with an axe to grind.
I'm willing to bet the vast majority of people that voted for Boris in the last G.E. were not too fussed about manifestos of either party - but rather how badly they want to 'get brexit done'. When elections are won on the back of a slogan and tribalism - we're not allowing ourselves to see the bigger picture and impact positive change. We're just locked into a tennis match of mudslinging and blame because our political deities are being dunked on. [Post edited 24 Jan 2022 11:52]
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If opposing racism and wanting a fairer society is in light of factual evidence vs actual liars passing through oppressive laws is a "tribalism" war your view then I'd just like to remind you this things actually happen when good people do nothing.
Striving for balance between facts and lies isn't a centrist take, it's a dumb one. | |
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| The Tories and that investigation on 12:43 - Jan 24 with 1371 views | monytowbray |
| The Tories and that investigation on 12:20 - Jan 24 by witchdoctor |
nope..I applauded his reply to what I consider to be just about the most condescending post I’ve ever seen on here….and that’s saying something… |
Gammons gonna gammon. | |
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| The Tories and that investigation on 12:46 - Jan 24 with 1346 views | Darth_Koont |
| The Tories and that investigation on 12:20 - Jan 24 by wkj |
Being in the middle doesn't necessarily mean having an opinion on most things that sits in the middle. In my case, I have very strong views about civil liberties which might be seen as leftist - but I have economic views that are not in line with socialism (as an example).
I grant you, that sometimes those two things can become contradictory with one another - so that is when the manifestos of a political party become important reading for me. I wouldn't care to accuse Callis or anyone of not reading the other point of view- however, the way these mechanisms are working makes it so the other point of view is not freely visible - depending on what social media bubble you end up getting lumped in to. |
Sure I get that. But the mainstream, so-called serious media does help build consensus around lots of issues just like avowedly and trashy right-wing or left-wing sources.
I think the acceptance of austerity and the underlying belief that the UK economy was similar to a household economy is a clear example of that. It enabled far too many people to ignore necessary support and investment in society and the economy for way too long.
That flipped almost overnight due to Covid when it was in people’s interests to get furloughed and/or support businesses, infrastructure and healthcare. The whole “magic money tree” silliness was quickly dropped as we spent way more extra than we said we could over the 20-year period before that. Even though that overspending was always going on, the debt was being increased and the money was going to serve corporate interests.
And that’s been in plain sight all along. It just highlights the lack of debate and the reinforcement of a status quo that feeds corporate interests and pays mostly lip service to civil rights and social justice for those who aren’t served by those interests.
I fear little will change with the political and media class that have resulted from that. And it’s depressing that we need crises like Brexit, the break up of the UK, Covid, climate change, Black Lives Matter, rampant inflation affecting the poorest etc. to even stir up some debate. [Post edited 24 Jan 2022 12:47]
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| The Tories and that investigation on 12:57 - Jan 24 with 1309 views | monytowbray |
| The Tories and that investigation on 12:13 - Jan 24 by Darth_Koont |
I’d agree with most of that. I’m an avid consumer of Twitter but I’m never logged in and I spend my time reading both sides of debates.
In fact, on Twitter, here and in the media I probably spend the vast majority of the time reading posts I disagree with overall.
In monytowbray’s defence, I’m sure he does too.
What people who put themselves in the middle do need to consider is that most political news does reinforce their views and is tailored to them as a target audience and market. The resulting narrative may not be as clownish as the tabloids but there’s definitely a status quo reluctance to consider underlying problems and solutions that results. |
My Twitter feed is a mix of dis/misinformation researchers, big tech regulation/monitoring takes, media fact checkers, politics from mainstream discourse and the far spectrums (globally), a few independent media orgs I trust (and ones I don't), legal stuff in relation to politics, some activists (both sides) and a bit of sports.
Funnily enough, I very rarely click the Guardian. But I do get to see the lies and the facts play out on my feed in real time. I just follow on Twitter these days and watch rather than actively post, and using the "follow is not an endorsement" approach I get Farage and Grimes' culture war lies first hand.
I watch the far right quite close, like the literal fringe ones who do Seig Heils off camera. It's quite worrying how much these groups have infiltrated media and political influence. The right has long seeked placing their own in positions of low key power within government for access to information and influence.
I theorise Bannon realised the mistake Hitler made was invading other nations, rather than enabling like minded fascists globally by exploiting the issues exclusive to the right in other nations. He also has a lot of money coming via corrupt wealth wanting more status quo (Mercers), a globalist based economy full of more corruption to allow this cash to funnel and technology that allows disinformation to spread better than ever.
Not to mention I am fully aware how digital algorithms work, it's my day job. I work in digital and probably spend more time reading about all that than wkj so excuse me if I take the idea of me being patronising in this thread with a pinch of salt.
Also nice to see Glassers lurking in uppies. Unleash hell and then run off with his tail between his legs when asked questions about his integrity his ego won't allow him to address. [Post edited 24 Jan 2022 13:00]
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| The Tories and that investigation on 13:36 - Jan 24 with 1219 views | wkj |
| The Tories and that investigation on 12:41 - Jan 24 by monytowbray |
If opposing racism and wanting a fairer society is in light of factual evidence vs actual liars passing through oppressive laws is a "tribalism" war your view then I'd just like to remind you this things actually happen when good people do nothing.
Striving for balance between facts and lies isn't a centrist take, it's a dumb one. |
Just because I don't shout about it - it doesn't mean I do nothing. Make very little mistake over that. | |
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| The Tories and that investigation on 13:38 - Jan 24 with 1531 views | HARRY10 |
| The Tories and that investigation on 11:59 - Jan 23 by giant_stow |
Yeah I can understand people reaching for that one right now tbh. Which makes my original charge worse I spose. Anyway, thanks. |
The thought is with some that the Mail and the Guardian are the two sides to the same coin. THy aARE NOT.
The Mail along with the Sun and Telegraph are owned by wealthy, private individuals whose views these papers all too often reflect.
It is a measure of how bad things are that the Guardian is considered 'left wing'. It is the same with the BBC., and to some extent, Sky news.
Not pumping out a right wing agenda has then labelled 'leftist'. The ledt wing version of the Daily Mail would be the Morning Star. | | | |
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