| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... 08:46 - Feb 28 with 7573 views | itfcjoe |
....and the support for Ukraine in bringing down Russia and it's economy.
Dragging the EU and the USA along with it.
The West feels very united on this, maybe the UK is finding it's place in the world a little bit post-Brexit - just a shame it is taking such horrible circumstances |  |
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| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 09:53 - Feb 28 with 4615 views | Steve_M |
Until there is meaningful UK action on beneficial ownership - identifying the ultimate owners of properties and businesses - then the UK is going for low hanging fruit.
As good and appropriate as many of the measures are the City has a big problem with dodgy money and the Tory Party far more than most. That is the hard bit for this country. |  |
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| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 10:00 - Feb 28 with 4579 views | itfcjoe |
| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 09:53 - Feb 28 by Steve_M |
Until there is meaningful UK action on beneficial ownership - identifying the ultimate owners of properties and businesses - then the UK is going for low hanging fruit.
As good and appropriate as many of the measures are the City has a big problem with dodgy money and the Tory Party far more than most. That is the hard bit for this country. |
Patel is due to launch a bill on that today isn't she, as always be interested to see how far it goes
It does feel that we have pulled the EU and the US with us a bit at the moment, sounds like Dutch and Scandi countries have done similar but we seem to have more weight and we are co-ordinating the efforts
https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-new-economic-crime-legislation-russia/ | |
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| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 10:02 - Feb 28 with 4554 views | Steve_M |
| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 10:00 - Feb 28 by itfcjoe |
Patel is due to launch a bill on that today isn't she, as always be interested to see how far it goes
It does feel that we have pulled the EU and the US with us a bit at the moment, sounds like Dutch and Scandi countries have done similar but we seem to have more weight and we are co-ordinating the efforts
https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-new-economic-crime-legislation-russia/ |
This government remains strong on briefing things, less strong on action. Hopefully that will be different here.
It's a shame that our influence isn't within the EU still but there we go. | |
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| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 10:03 - Feb 28 with 4555 views | Swansea_Blue |
Er, that doesn’t seem to agree with the analysis from people who know about these things. Lots of rhetoric, but the sanctions are modest compared to what we should be doing and less far reaching than those imposed by the US. We’ve not touched 95% of the oligarchs of interest. Don’t forget we’ve got the dirtiest act to clean up financially, so could/should be doing far more.
We move our military quickly, but as Steve says the sanctions seem easy pickings/low hanging fruit. The EU have gone after Putin and Levrov directly, for example. US/Germany shut down Nord 2. |  |
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| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 10:15 - Feb 28 with 4488 views | itfcjoe |
| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 10:03 - Feb 28 by Swansea_Blue |
Er, that doesn’t seem to agree with the analysis from people who know about these things. Lots of rhetoric, but the sanctions are modest compared to what we should be doing and less far reaching than those imposed by the US. We’ve not touched 95% of the oligarchs of interest. Don’t forget we’ve got the dirtiest act to clean up financially, so could/should be doing far more.
We move our military quickly, but as Steve says the sanctions seem easy pickings/low hanging fruit. The EU have gone after Putin and Levrov directly, for example. US/Germany shut down Nord 2. |
US and Germany are still wanting to buy Russian gas which we are pushing to stop, bar suspending the pipeline they haven't bought any less gas and no plans not to - we are strying to get a cap on this
we've pushed for them to be kicked off SWIFT - Germany were opposing that a few days ago but Turdeau, Johnson and Rutte pushed heavily for tha. We also want all Russian banks banned, not just 'selected ones' as per US and EU
US has cut Sberbank off, we are trying to get the EU to do similar - if US/UK/EU do so then it absolutely cuts it off at it's knees
Our bans on airspace, including Ogliarchs private jets, ahead of the EU by a few days and it has really taken Germany a long time to come up with what is required.
We've not gone far enough on refugees in my view, and took too long to get there - but feel as though we are leading the way elsewhere | |
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| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 10:21 - Feb 28 with 4454 views | BloomBlue |
| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 10:03 - Feb 28 by Swansea_Blue |
Er, that doesn’t seem to agree with the analysis from people who know about these things. Lots of rhetoric, but the sanctions are modest compared to what we should be doing and less far reaching than those imposed by the US. We’ve not touched 95% of the oligarchs of interest. Don’t forget we’ve got the dirtiest act to clean up financially, so could/should be doing far more.
We move our military quickly, but as Steve says the sanctions seem easy pickings/low hanging fruit. The EU have gone after Putin and Levrov directly, for example. US/Germany shut down Nord 2. |
The UK have put a freeze on Putin and Levrov's assets although for any Country that's mainly words as Putin doesn't have a lot of assets outside of Russia - although I agree we could go further with other oligarchs
But for any sanctions to work they have to be joined up globally and therefore you will always get situations where it impacts some Countries more. Germany with it's reliance on russian oil/gas will obviously take a bigger impact, although remember the EU sanctions on SWIFT did exclude some oil/gas payments to russia |  | | |
| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 10:35 - Feb 28 with 4405 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 10:15 - Feb 28 by itfcjoe |
US and Germany are still wanting to buy Russian gas which we are pushing to stop, bar suspending the pipeline they haven't bought any less gas and no plans not to - we are strying to get a cap on this
we've pushed for them to be kicked off SWIFT - Germany were opposing that a few days ago but Turdeau, Johnson and Rutte pushed heavily for tha. We also want all Russian banks banned, not just 'selected ones' as per US and EU
US has cut Sberbank off, we are trying to get the EU to do similar - if US/UK/EU do so then it absolutely cuts it off at it's knees
Our bans on airspace, including Ogliarchs private jets, ahead of the EU by a few days and it has really taken Germany a long time to come up with what is required.
We've not gone far enough on refugees in my view, and took too long to get there - but feel as though we are leading the way elsewhere |
You are of course 100% correct. UK once again leads the way as they often do in these situations..........
...........Although like you I am a bit baffled by our dilly dallying on the refugee front, I note now that people can come with no restrictions if they have family here but it just sounds a bit stingy. After-all, any displaced people will prefer and probably head for Poland and The Baltic States anyway. |  |
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| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 10:45 - Feb 28 with 4350 views | clive_baker |
| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 10:15 - Feb 28 by itfcjoe |
US and Germany are still wanting to buy Russian gas which we are pushing to stop, bar suspending the pipeline they haven't bought any less gas and no plans not to - we are strying to get a cap on this
we've pushed for them to be kicked off SWIFT - Germany were opposing that a few days ago but Turdeau, Johnson and Rutte pushed heavily for tha. We also want all Russian banks banned, not just 'selected ones' as per US and EU
US has cut Sberbank off, we are trying to get the EU to do similar - if US/UK/EU do so then it absolutely cuts it off at it's knees
Our bans on airspace, including Ogliarchs private jets, ahead of the EU by a few days and it has really taken Germany a long time to come up with what is required.
We've not gone far enough on refugees in my view, and took too long to get there - but feel as though we are leading the way elsewhere |
I think it's a little easier for us to say that, than Germany to be fair. I read that 55% of our gas comes from Norway, so we're much less dependant on Russia, while 70% of Germany's is from Russia. I'm not disputing your initial point, but the circumstances are slightly different for the UK and Germany. It's encouraging to see 'the West' uniting in this though, it's really not going to plan for Putin and Russia and while there's still plenty in their armoury to take Ukraine should they so wish, they are seemingly getting a bloody nose in the process thanks to the courage of the people of Ukraine. Often all it takes to unite people is a common enemy, perhaps Putin represents that and any positive coming out of it might be more collaboration moving forward after what has been an unstable era in Western politics. Let's hope things don't escalate too much before that, Putin is utterly unpredictable and needs to be toppled. |  |
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| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 11:38 - Feb 28 with 4244 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 10:15 - Feb 28 by itfcjoe |
US and Germany are still wanting to buy Russian gas which we are pushing to stop, bar suspending the pipeline they haven't bought any less gas and no plans not to - we are strying to get a cap on this
we've pushed for them to be kicked off SWIFT - Germany were opposing that a few days ago but Turdeau, Johnson and Rutte pushed heavily for tha. We also want all Russian banks banned, not just 'selected ones' as per US and EU
US has cut Sberbank off, we are trying to get the EU to do similar - if US/UK/EU do so then it absolutely cuts it off at it's knees
Our bans on airspace, including Ogliarchs private jets, ahead of the EU by a few days and it has really taken Germany a long time to come up with what is required.
We've not gone far enough on refugees in my view, and took too long to get there - but feel as though we are leading the way elsewhere |
We’re all coming from different angles and philosophies and have different needs and relationships and/or reliances with each other (in the case of the EU) or with Russia. Germany’s move on supplying/authorising their weapons for use in a combat zone is a massive move for them, even if it doesn’t seem si from our perspective.
The UK’s doing a lot in some areas and was one of the quickest to act, for sure. Yet I think our position on refugees doesn’t show us in a good light. Things are changing daily though - the financial sanctions announced by Sunak in the last hour are very welcome addition, for example. Meanwhile the EU sanctioned air support is supposed to be taking off any time now. All helpful, and I’m sure the Ukrainians are grateful for all of it. | |
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| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 11:52 - Feb 28 with 4184 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 10:15 - Feb 28 by itfcjoe |
US and Germany are still wanting to buy Russian gas which we are pushing to stop, bar suspending the pipeline they haven't bought any less gas and no plans not to - we are strying to get a cap on this
we've pushed for them to be kicked off SWIFT - Germany were opposing that a few days ago but Turdeau, Johnson and Rutte pushed heavily for tha. We also want all Russian banks banned, not just 'selected ones' as per US and EU
US has cut Sberbank off, we are trying to get the EU to do similar - if US/UK/EU do so then it absolutely cuts it off at it's knees
Our bans on airspace, including Ogliarchs private jets, ahead of the EU by a few days and it has really taken Germany a long time to come up with what is required.
We've not gone far enough on refugees in my view, and took too long to get there - but feel as though we are leading the way elsewhere |
Some posters simply cannot bring themselves to see the UK in a positive light, due to their dislike of our government.
We saw them same reaction last January with the vaccine rollout.
The UK could find a cure for cancer tomorrow and some on here would say they hadn't done it quick enough.
I find it incredibly annoying tbh. |  |
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| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 11:58 - Feb 28 with 4161 views | giant_stow |
imho, the UK pushed harder initially, but the EU has now more than caught up.
In other news, and please don't be too cross with me, is anyone else a little uneasy (as well as glad) that the Germans are more or less doubling their defense budget? [Post edited 28 Feb 2022 11:59]
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| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 12:00 - Feb 28 with 4128 views | hype313 |
| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 11:58 - Feb 28 by giant_stow |
imho, the UK pushed harder initially, but the EU has now more than caught up.
In other news, and please don't be too cross with me, is anyone else a little uneasy (as well as glad) that the Germans are more or less doubling their defense budget? [Post edited 28 Feb 2022 11:59]
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Whilst admirable their stance has been over the years, they have now realized we live in a very uncertain world, we would all love to take their position, but it's just not feasible.
Also kudos to them as they will be hardest by the energy issues facing them from this crisis. |  |
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| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 12:03 - Feb 28 with 4106 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 11:52 - Feb 28 by GlasgowBlue |
Some posters simply cannot bring themselves to see the UK in a positive light, due to their dislike of our government.
We saw them same reaction last January with the vaccine rollout.
The UK could find a cure for cancer tomorrow and some on here would say they hadn't done it quick enough.
I find it incredibly annoying tbh. |
I laughed when I saw the OP and thought to myself "Feck me, this thread will drop like a stone"
I agree though, some people are so bloody unbalanced that it beggars belief.
I just chuckle to myself these days. | |
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| [Redacted] on 12:07 - Feb 28 with 4059 views | victorywilhappen |
| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 12:03 - Feb 28 by Lord_Lucan |
I laughed when I saw the OP and thought to myself "Feck me, this thread will drop like a stone"
I agree though, some people are so bloody unbalanced that it beggars belief.
I just chuckle to myself these days. |
[Redacted] |  | | |
| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 12:10 - Feb 28 with 4048 views | WeWereZombies |
| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 11:58 - Feb 28 by giant_stow |
imho, the UK pushed harder initially, but the EU has now more than caught up.
In other news, and please don't be too cross with me, is anyone else a little uneasy (as well as glad) that the Germans are more or less doubling their defense budget? [Post edited 28 Feb 2022 11:59]
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German rearmament is always going to be an uncomfortable thought but, given their economic power, should they be denied an equal opportunity to defend their nation and to contribute to joint efforts to defend others?
In response to the OP I could take the Roberto Saviano view and suggest that the United Kingdom, specifically London, can only go for the 'low hanging fruit' when it comes to sanctions as our regulatory regime is less stringent than the United States and we have a great deal of questionable trades that we make money out of; so we could be seen as cutting off our noses to spite our face if we push too far into Russia's wealth fund. And with public finances reeling from the COVID-19 costs that might be awkward in terms of the tax take, which may have also been part of Putin's calculations in launching his offensive when he did. |  |
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| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 12:44 - Feb 28 with 3923 views | Darth_Koont |
| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 11:52 - Feb 28 by GlasgowBlue |
Some posters simply cannot bring themselves to see the UK in a positive light, due to their dislike of our government.
We saw them same reaction last January with the vaccine rollout.
The UK could find a cure for cancer tomorrow and some on here would say they hadn't done it quick enough.
I find it incredibly annoying tbh. |
Not half as annoying as those who think we’re a positive, stabilising force in the world. Or indeed that the UK is even remotely close to a functioning modern democracy/society.
The government doesn’t deserve credit (neither do those before now) until we can recognise the enormous moral and democratic deficit we’ve accepted as the norm.
The UK is coming from a very long way back and specifically with regards to Russia. |  |
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| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 13:29 - Feb 28 with 3764 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 11:52 - Feb 28 by GlasgowBlue |
Some posters simply cannot bring themselves to see the UK in a positive light, due to their dislike of our government.
We saw them same reaction last January with the vaccine rollout.
The UK could find a cure for cancer tomorrow and some on here would say they hadn't done it quick enough.
I find it incredibly annoying tbh. |
Given Joe was replying to me, that’s simply untrue. I’m quite happy to acknowledge where we’ve done well and have done in this case. We also need the confidence in our country to know we’re not always “world leading”. Repeatedly hearing it, doesn’t make it so. It’s borderline state propaganda.
You’re spot on that I dislike our government though - hate them with a passion. They’re corrupt, populist liars who shame us all. | |
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| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 13:41 - Feb 28 with 3693 views | clive_baker |
| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 11:52 - Feb 28 by GlasgowBlue |
Some posters simply cannot bring themselves to see the UK in a positive light, due to their dislike of our government.
We saw them same reaction last January with the vaccine rollout.
The UK could find a cure for cancer tomorrow and some on here would say they hadn't done it quick enough.
I find it incredibly annoying tbh. |
I thought the NHS rightly got a lot of credit and respect from the general public throughout the pandemic. My wife is a nurse and her and her colleagues were really humbled by the clapping for carers and vaccines rollout plaudits. Shame the government didn't back up the positive words with something more meaningful in such a difficult time for a lot of people, but that's not a reflection on general sentiment.
Thought there was balance too in terms of praise for some of the financial support introduced, furlough etc as well as the UK's funding of a successful vaccine development in Oxford, as well as our ability to procure the vaccines and broker deals with some of the largest manufacturers in India to get us to the front of the queue, not just the NHS's ability to roll them out.
Balance is surely about saying it as it is, I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that the UK and Germany aren't playing on the same playing field with respect of Russia, and have to look after the interests of their people. Its good that there appears to be collaboration now though, long may it continue. The world needs ridding of the cancer that is Putin. | |
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| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 13:46 - Feb 28 with 3656 views | giant_stow |
| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 12:10 - Feb 28 by WeWereZombies |
German rearmament is always going to be an uncomfortable thought but, given their economic power, should they be denied an equal opportunity to defend their nation and to contribute to joint efforts to defend others?
In response to the OP I could take the Roberto Saviano view and suggest that the United Kingdom, specifically London, can only go for the 'low hanging fruit' when it comes to sanctions as our regulatory regime is less stringent than the United States and we have a great deal of questionable trades that we make money out of; so we could be seen as cutting off our noses to spite our face if we push too far into Russia's wealth fund. And with public finances reeling from the COVID-19 costs that might be awkward in terms of the tax take, which may have also been part of Putin's calculations in launching his offensive when he did. |
very fair. | |
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| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 13:51 - Feb 28 with 3631 views | noggin |
| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 13:29 - Feb 28 by Swansea_Blue |
Given Joe was replying to me, that’s simply untrue. I’m quite happy to acknowledge where we’ve done well and have done in this case. We also need the confidence in our country to know we’re not always “world leading”. Repeatedly hearing it, doesn’t make it so. It’s borderline state propaganda.
You’re spot on that I dislike our government though - hate them with a passion. They’re corrupt, populist liars who shame us all. |
Upvote for you final sentence. |  |
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| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 21:04 - Feb 28 with 3364 views | WicklowBlue |
Not sure why it is important for anyone to be leading the way in this deplorable situation. Not sure words like "dragging the EU and the USA along" is helpful either.
Seems to me like a narrative around the UK still being relevant on the world stage. The UK is still very relevant on the world stage, however this is not a time for willy waving it's about the International response to what is a breach in International law and every country doing what they can to help Ukraine.
As for comments on Gas supplies, no doubt this was partly what Putin was counting on as the EU depend hugely on gas from Russia.
Edited: To fix stupid typos [Post edited 28 Feb 2022 21:11]
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| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 21:27 - Feb 28 with 3313 views | Mullet |
| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 11:52 - Feb 28 by GlasgowBlue |
Some posters simply cannot bring themselves to see the UK in a positive light, due to their dislike of our government.
We saw them same reaction last January with the vaccine rollout.
The UK could find a cure for cancer tomorrow and some on here would say they hadn't done it quick enough.
I find it incredibly annoying tbh. |
Although the rollout probably highlights your annoyance perfectly. It was an incredibly mixed bag even at the time, but this government analysis paints a very clear picture.
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/coronavirus-vaccine-rollout
What advantages we had in terms of access, timescale etc. was in large part down to the NHS and civil service, much of the self-congratulations meant we wasted the time and advantages we had if it were a race of sorts.
It's not really fair to credit the government solely, without acknowledging how they reverted to normal and wasted so many resources and opportunities after. |  |
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| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 22:24 - Feb 28 with 3142 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Sounds like the UK are really leading the way on sanctions.... on 21:27 - Feb 28 by Mullet |
Although the rollout probably highlights your annoyance perfectly. It was an incredibly mixed bag even at the time, but this government analysis paints a very clear picture.
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/coronavirus-vaccine-rollout
What advantages we had in terms of access, timescale etc. was in large part down to the NHS and civil service, much of the self-congratulations meant we wasted the time and advantages we had if it were a race of sorts.
It's not really fair to credit the government solely, without acknowledging how they reverted to normal and wasted so many resources and opportunities after. |
Who credited the government? If you read my post I said the UK. That’s you, me and everyone who lives here.
But there is a reluctance to take pride in the UK or it’s achievements because we hate our government. Almost a fear that if we credit our country with something positive then we are crediting our government.
[Post edited 28 Feb 2022 23:04]
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