| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign 22:10 - May 6 with 9447 views | ElderGrizzly |
If fined for “beergate”
Assume this is Abbott and Corbyn then based on their comments and tweets the last few days
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 14:30 - May 7 with 811 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 13:04 - May 7 by ZXBlue |
what? |
You heard. |  |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 14:31 - May 7 with 827 views | ZXBlue |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 14:30 - May 7 by Darth_Koont |
You heard. |
I heard, but it was incoherent so I queried. Sorry to have torubled you. |  | | |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 14:35 - May 7 with 791 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 13:58 - May 7 by tractordownsouth |
We've been over this before but the categorisation of 2017 as the 'only election where Labour has gained seats in 2 decades' is better spin than anyone from New Labour could come up with.
It implies that getting 262 seats in the 2017 defeat was better than winning 412 seats (2001) or 355 (2005). You could spin it the other way and say JC got the same number of seats after 7 years of austerity and the worst Tory campaign ever as Gordon Brown did after 13 years in office and a global economic crisis. |
You're better than this.
You know that with Scotland lost and the Tories/UKIP on the rise that 50-100 Labour safe seats had pretty much disappeared after 2015. But 2017 saw millions return to voting Labour.
You're spinning it yourself to try and deny that 2017 reversed the downward trend. | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 14:36 - May 7 with 778 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 14:31 - May 7 by ZXBlue |
I heard, but it was incoherent so I queried. Sorry to have torubled you. |
What are you querying? | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 14:47 - May 7 with 767 views | Ryorry |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:56 - May 7 by DublinBlue84 |
That's exactly my point.
They'd rather enable full right wing policies that have destroyed peoples lives up and down the UK than actually compromise. They're more obsessed by keeping control of their own party and appealing to their core base, than trying to make the party appeal to more people, gaining power so they can win an election.
The Tories have been historically better at coming together and realising that sometimes they need to moderate their position in the interest of the party, that's something Labour have really struggled to do over the years, which has led to the situation where you have the Corbynistas literally deliberately scoring own goals out of spite like a child playing FIFA online who is pissed off at losing.
I understand that some Labour party figures don't want to compromise the parties position at all, but they really need to look at the bigger picture of what is happening to this country. If they don't wake up soon, then they will find it impossible for that Labour to ever win power back, especially with the anti-democratic reforms being made to the electoral commission which are scandalous. |
Spot on 👠|  |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 14:57 - May 7 with 747 views | Ryorry |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 12:10 - May 7 by ZXBlue |
Not sure how that is relevant. Its another dodge.
Corbyn, imo, is responsible for Brexit. Had he been remain and campaigned for it, he need only to have carried a small percentage of the labour vote to have swung the referendum.
But that is besides the point.
The actual point is that, as much as you may think someone like Corbyn, or Burnham is what we all need, history tells you that they cannot and will not win a GE. You know this. You also know that Starmer and Co. would be an improvement on what we have. But your dogmatism prevents you taking the least bad option. You would rather stand dying on your big high hill complaining its all unfair.
Ironically, the dogmatism over pragmatism, is the primary reason I could never vot for Corbyn.... Its great to have ideals, but you also have to live in the real world. |
I'd agree with all of that except your prediction that Burnham couldn't/wouldn't win a GE.
I think he could & would - just a gut feeling, but I think he'd carry all former Labour voters with him, incl Blairites, as well as serious lefties like DK, Bankster & footers - and also think he's viewed as about as honest a politician as we'll ever get. In light of the current mob now regarded as corrupt liars by probably the majority of the nation, I'd say that'd go down well, and that this particular situation is uniquely suitable for him as a potential LP leader & PM. | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 15:05 - May 7 with 726 views | J2BLUE |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 14:57 - May 7 by Ryorry |
I'd agree with all of that except your prediction that Burnham couldn't/wouldn't win a GE.
I think he could & would - just a gut feeling, but I think he'd carry all former Labour voters with him, incl Blairites, as well as serious lefties like DK, Bankster & footers - and also think he's viewed as about as honest a politician as we'll ever get. In light of the current mob now regarded as corrupt liars by probably the majority of the nation, I'd say that'd go down well, and that this particular situation is uniquely suitable for him as a potential LP leader & PM. |
The debate about Burnham winning an election just brings it back to our FPTP system which is not fit for purpose. My two choices are the Tories and Starmer's Labour. There is a clear winner there. If you had PR though it would become much more interesting knowing my vote for a Lib Dem or Green candidate was not wasted.
We are constantly lied to and have things twisted and no one ever calls politicians on it. The argument against PR is that the electorate rejected a different option which was nowhere near as good.
We need PR.
If Labour want to do something genuinely good and helpful they could present a full costed UBI funded by scrapping most of the benefits system and taxing corporations properly. The benefit to society would be massive the the NHS would have huge pressure taken off of it as people were healthier. |  |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 15:22 - May 7 with 693 views | HARRY10 |
That reads like a sketch from The Day Today
"recklessly endangering lives by swigging from a bottle, snorting hardcore curry - and never mind Peppa Pig world, what about Poppadom land where the Labour leader didn't have keir(geddit) about others, it takes two to mango (chutney) so who was the mysterious blonde we never saw, answer that then ?"
The desperation just oozes out, as the bloater attempts to distract from the heavy losses, that overwhelmingly have him as the person voters objected to.
With the suggestion that the Sue Gray report will be more damming than what has so far been revealed, it can only be of benefit to progressive parties that this lardy liability stays.
The polls still have the Tories trailing by 110 seats - the upcoming by-elections will be illuminating, to say the least. | | | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 15:36 - May 7 with 673 views | tractordownsouth |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 14:35 - May 7 by Darth_Koont |
You're better than this.
You know that with Scotland lost and the Tories/UKIP on the rise that 50-100 Labour safe seats had pretty much disappeared after 2015. But 2017 saw millions return to voting Labour.
You're spinning it yourself to try and deny that 2017 reversed the downward trend. |
I’m not denying it - 2017 was an improvement and did reverse a trend. Your second point can be applied to today’s landscape though - the electoral map Corbyn has left behind is worse than the one he inherited from Miliband. Scores of Labour seats in the North and Midlands that had 5k+ majorities are now in the hands of the Tories by even greater margins. Similarly the Scotland situation got even worse - even in the 2015 disaster, Labour were comfortably the second party but finished 4th in 2019 with the Tories the main opposition to the SNP in most seats.
Had JC left after 2017 he’d have done so with his head held high because he’d have left his successor with a party who could have realistically won within a single electoral cycle, but he undid the progress and then some in 2019. |  |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 16:16 - May 7 with 629 views | ZXBlue |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 15:05 - May 7 by J2BLUE |
The debate about Burnham winning an election just brings it back to our FPTP system which is not fit for purpose. My two choices are the Tories and Starmer's Labour. There is a clear winner there. If you had PR though it would become much more interesting knowing my vote for a Lib Dem or Green candidate was not wasted.
We are constantly lied to and have things twisted and no one ever calls politicians on it. The argument against PR is that the electorate rejected a different option which was nowhere near as good.
We need PR.
If Labour want to do something genuinely good and helpful they could present a full costed UBI funded by scrapping most of the benefits system and taxing corporations properly. The benefit to society would be massive the the NHS would have huge pressure taken off of it as people were healthier. |
There are strong arguments in favour of fptp. The natural way in which it enables local / regional representation and the high likelihood of a clear working majority are the main ones, along with its inherent exclusion of extremes. I have generally thought that it is marginally preferable as a result, but have come to the view that it is probably time for a change.
In my local election, for two council seats, there were two conservatives, two libs and a green. There was a labour candidate who was never going to bother the counters.
Both conservatives got in, because the green candidate split the vote. More than half voted green or lib dem. Less than half conservative. 2 conservative incumbents kept their seats. Just wrong. | | | |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 16:21 - May 7 with 619 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 16:16 - May 7 by ZXBlue |
There are strong arguments in favour of fptp. The natural way in which it enables local / regional representation and the high likelihood of a clear working majority are the main ones, along with its inherent exclusion of extremes. I have generally thought that it is marginally preferable as a result, but have come to the view that it is probably time for a change.
In my local election, for two council seats, there were two conservatives, two libs and a green. There was a labour candidate who was never going to bother the counters.
Both conservatives got in, because the green candidate split the vote. More than half voted green or lib dem. Less than half conservative. 2 conservative incumbents kept their seats. Just wrong. |
At least the radical Greens were kept out though. |  |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 16:48 - May 7 with 582 views | Ryorry |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 16:21 - May 7 by BanksterDebtSlave |
At least the radical Greens were kept out though. |
Cause for optimism in the obvious upswing for the Greens on Thurs tho - the message at last appears to be getting through to the general population, & that's at least starting to show at the ballot box.
Shame one or more of the Reds/Greens/Yellows didn't stand aside for a tactical vote to GTTO in for that ward. | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 16:52 - May 7 with 575 views | Ryorry |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 15:05 - May 7 by J2BLUE |
The debate about Burnham winning an election just brings it back to our FPTP system which is not fit for purpose. My two choices are the Tories and Starmer's Labour. There is a clear winner there. If you had PR though it would become much more interesting knowing my vote for a Lib Dem or Green candidate was not wasted.
We are constantly lied to and have things twisted and no one ever calls politicians on it. The argument against PR is that the electorate rejected a different option which was nowhere near as good.
We need PR.
If Labour want to do something genuinely good and helpful they could present a full costed UBI funded by scrapping most of the benefits system and taxing corporations properly. The benefit to society would be massive the the NHS would have huge pressure taken off of it as people were healthier. |
The problem with getting PR tho is that it's chicken/egg. You need a decent govt. to propose & get legislation through; and how do you get a decent govt. when you don't have PR  :( | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 16:53 - May 7 with 572 views | J2BLUE |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 16:52 - May 7 by Ryorry |
The problem with getting PR tho is that it's chicken/egg. You need a decent govt. to propose & get legislation through; and how do you get a decent govt. when you don't have PR :( |
They are supposed to work for us. Which is a joke. | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 17:40 - May 7 with 531 views | GlasgowBlue |
Bit of a problem if true.
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 18:15 - May 7 with 484 views | ZXBlue |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 17:40 - May 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Bit of a problem if true.
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Have you read the article? It essentially said that it was planned to get some food in. Which is hardly an issue.
Look at the video, they are even staying distanced whilst eating! | | | |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 18:19 - May 7 with 475 views | marchy |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 18:15 - May 7 by ZXBlue |
Have you read the article? It essentially said that it was planned to get some food in. Which is hardly an issue.
Look at the video, they are even staying distanced whilst eating! |
No, it calls into serious question his explanation that is was a required break during work to eat, because it specifically indicates that they weren't scheduled to resume working afterwards, so it was not something they should have been doing. It's an issue. | | | |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 18:23 - May 7 with 460 views | ZXBlue |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 18:19 - May 7 by marchy |
No, it calls into serious question his explanation that is was a required break during work to eat, because it specifically indicates that they weren't scheduled to resume working afterwards, so it was not something they should have been doing. It's an issue. |
It really isnt.
It was work. They ordered food in. After a late night, thats not unreasonable, especially as they were unlikely to be able to each invididually go out and eat somewhere. This is so desperate. | | | |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 18:25 - May 7 with 455 views | marchy |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 18:23 - May 7 by ZXBlue |
It really isnt.
It was work. They ordered food in. After a late night, thats not unreasonable, especially as they were unlikely to be able to each invididually go out and eat somewhere. This is so desperate. |
I really, really hope there's no case to answer and this goes away, but it's not desperate. If their scheduled work was finished, they should have gone home to eat. They didn't have to "go out and eat somewhere" - nobody was doing that. Whatever we thought of the rules, they were the rules. | | | |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 18:27 - May 7 with 448 views | ZXBlue |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 18:25 - May 7 by marchy |
I really, really hope there's no case to answer and this goes away, but it's not desperate. If their scheduled work was finished, they should have gone home to eat. They didn't have to "go out and eat somewhere" - nobody was doing that. Whatever we thought of the rules, they were the rules. |
Its completely desperate. What rules are you claiming were broken by having food?
How do you go home when you are visiting a campaign office? Probably all in hotels for the night. | | | |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 18:30 - May 7 with 440 views | marchy |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 18:27 - May 7 by ZXBlue |
Its completely desperate. What rules are you claiming were broken by having food?
How do you go home when you are visiting a campaign office? Probably all in hotels for the night. |
As the article says, "At the time, lockdown laws allowed staff to meet indoors if doing so was ‘reasonably necessary for work’". Their work was finished at 8:40. Hotels serve food at that time. Takeaways deliver food at that time. | | | |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 18:33 - May 7 with 430 views | Mullet |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 13:18 - May 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Burnham has the ability to connect with people. He is also a very decent man.
He's further to the left than Starmer but doesn't come with the crank baggage that so many from that wing of the labour party do.
I do think that we are at peak Burnham now though. Burnham in ten years won't have the same fre in his belly or be as relevant as he is now. |
I dunno, there's nothing to stop his career to carry on progressing over time. It'd be fascinating if we got Starmer heading up a coalition with the Dems. Think that'd cause a rift so deep with the Kim Jong Geography Teachers association we'd see 30's style Communist parties being formed! |  |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 18:33 - May 7 with 429 views | ZXBlue |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 18:30 - May 7 by marchy |
As the article says, "At the time, lockdown laws allowed staff to meet indoors if doing so was ‘reasonably necessary for work’". Their work was finished at 8:40. Hotels serve food at that time. Takeaways deliver food at that time. |
So what rule was broken and how do you know work was finished?
You dont. | | | |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 18:33 - May 7 with 429 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 18:15 - May 7 by ZXBlue |
Have you read the article? It essentially said that it was planned to get some food in. Which is hardly an issue.
Look at the video, they are even staying distanced whilst eating! |
It's never the offence, or alleged offence, that eventually does for politicians. It's the constant cover ups and lies about it. | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 18:36 - May 7 with 424 views | marchy |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 18:33 - May 7 by ZXBlue |
So what rule was broken and how do you know work was finished?
You dont. |
Well that's the thing isn't it, Starmer will now have to prove they carried on working and disregarded what the memo said, and he'll have known about the memo, so it doesn't help that it's now coming out of nowhere and looking like he's not being entirely open about the situation. | | | |
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