| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign 22:10 - May 6 with 9478 views | ElderGrizzly |
If fined for “beergate”
Assume this is Abbott and Corbyn then based on their comments and tweets the last few days
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 11:48 - May 7 with 1221 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 11:40 - May 7 by DublinBlue84 |
"But also they’re losing ground electorally."
Something we agree on. In the last general election, Labour lost a huge amount of ground. They had their worse result for 84 (EIGHTY FOUR) years.
Remind me, who was the leader at that point?
In case you hadn't noticed, there hasn't been an election since 2019 and Labour are now polling higher than they did at that general election. But instead carry on spreading your propaganda and skewed views that have no basis on reality. [Post edited 7 May 2022 11:48]
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Remind me who was responsible for pushing the Brexit policy and the internal smear campaign?
The current clowns.
In fact can you give me any evidence that these people ever wanted the Tories out? Do they even want them out now or do they just want their turn failing to look after the country but certainly looking after themselves?
It gives me scant pleasure to see them struggle to make much of a dent in the worst government ever. Not least because the UK deserves far far better than both of them. |  |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 11:48 - May 7 with 1225 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:58 - May 7 by DublinBlue84 |
Jeremy Corbyn has two elections. He lost both.
These are the facts of the matter. He had his chance.
It's someone else's turn.
I couldn't vote for Labour under Corbyn, I know many people who were the same. |
Then you and they should have a word with yourself/themselves! |  |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 11:53 - May 7 with 1197 views | DublinBlue84 |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 11:44 - May 7 by ZXBlue |
Almost every part of that "delusional" post comprises of factual statements. |
Indeed, I'm not sure how facts backed up with evidence can be delusional since they are not opinions, they are just facts that are being stated.
That's the trouble with the left of the Labour Party, they are an emotional and very fanatical bunch, but when it comes to actually understanding how politics works, they are completely out of their depth as they simply don't get it. |  |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 11:55 - May 7 with 1188 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 11:53 - May 7 by DublinBlue84 |
Indeed, I'm not sure how facts backed up with evidence can be delusional since they are not opinions, they are just facts that are being stated.
That's the trouble with the left of the Labour Party, they are an emotional and very fanatical bunch, but when it comes to actually understanding how politics works, they are completely out of their depth as they simply don't get it. |
Delusional. | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 11:58 - May 7 with 1180 views | DublinBlue84 |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 11:36 - May 7 by Darth_Koont |
Delusional. |
Thanks for confirming that you're unable to challenge the facts of the matter so resort to one word answers. [Post edited 7 May 2022 12:00]
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 11:59 - May 7 with 1166 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 11:58 - May 7 by DublinBlue84 |
Thanks for confirming that you're unable to challenge the facts of the matter so resort to one word answers. [Post edited 7 May 2022 12:00]
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You can lead a horse to water … | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 11:59 - May 7 with 1170 views | DublinBlue84 |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 11:55 - May 7 by Darth_Koont |
Delusional. |
Twice to my posts you have said that now, without really having any comeback.
I've really rattled a nerve haven't I? Really stumped you to the point that you are unable to have any comeback.
I think when such things happen on TV, they call it a car crash interview.
Goodnight. | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 12:00 - May 7 with 1163 views | ZXBlue |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 11:48 - May 7 by Darth_Koont |
Remind me who was responsible for pushing the Brexit policy and the internal smear campaign?
The current clowns.
In fact can you give me any evidence that these people ever wanted the Tories out? Do they even want them out now or do they just want their turn failing to look after the country but certainly looking after themselves?
It gives me scant pleasure to see them struggle to make much of a dent in the worst government ever. Not least because the UK deserves far far better than both of them. |
The brexit policy? You mean Starmer was a remainer?
As opposed to Corbyn who was...?
Another sidestep to avoid addressing the point head on. | | | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 12:03 - May 7 with 1145 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 11:59 - May 7 by DublinBlue84 |
Twice to my posts you have said that now, without really having any comeback.
I've really rattled a nerve haven't I? Really stumped you to the point that you are unable to have any comeback.
I think when such things happen on TV, they call it a car crash interview.
Goodnight. |
No, I’ll answer anything and have tried to engage extensively with you and others today and in the past.
But you’re clearly stuck in the narrative and I’m particularly bored by it today. | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 12:05 - May 7 with 1138 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 12:00 - May 7 by ZXBlue |
The brexit policy? You mean Starmer was a remainer?
As opposed to Corbyn who was...?
Another sidestep to avoid addressing the point head on. |
?
Are you completely unaware of the internal Brexit wranglings? The Change group of chancers and lobbyists threatened to break up the party over respecting the referendum. | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 12:09 - May 7 with 1123 views | giant_stow |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:48 - May 7 by GlasgowBlue |
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There speaks someone with the least well off's interests at heart. Wvnker! [Post edited 7 May 2022 12:16]
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 12:10 - May 7 with 1121 views | ZXBlue |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 12:05 - May 7 by Darth_Koont |
?
Are you completely unaware of the internal Brexit wranglings? The Change group of chancers and lobbyists threatened to break up the party over respecting the referendum. |
Not sure how that is relevant. Its another dodge.
Corbyn, imo, is responsible for Brexit. Had he been remain and campaigned for it, he need only to have carried a small percentage of the labour vote to have swung the referendum.
But that is besides the point.
The actual point is that, as much as you may think someone like Corbyn, or Burnham is what we all need, history tells you that they cannot and will not win a GE. You know this. You also know that Starmer and Co. would be an improvement on what we have. But your dogmatism prevents you taking the least bad option. You would rather stand dying on your big high hill complaining its all unfair.
Ironically, the dogmatism over pragmatism, is the primary reason I could never vot for Corbyn.... Its great to have ideals, but you also have to live in the real world. | | | |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 12:15 - May 7 with 1103 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 12:10 - May 7 by ZXBlue |
Not sure how that is relevant. Its another dodge.
Corbyn, imo, is responsible for Brexit. Had he been remain and campaigned for it, he need only to have carried a small percentage of the labour vote to have swung the referendum.
But that is besides the point.
The actual point is that, as much as you may think someone like Corbyn, or Burnham is what we all need, history tells you that they cannot and will not win a GE. You know this. You also know that Starmer and Co. would be an improvement on what we have. But your dogmatism prevents you taking the least bad option. You would rather stand dying on your big high hill complaining its all unfair.
Ironically, the dogmatism over pragmatism, is the primary reason I could never vot for Corbyn.... Its great to have ideals, but you also have to live in the real world. |
Why are you “not sure why that is relevant”??! The compromise position and suggestion that Labour weren’t respecting the referendum vs Get Brexit Done was pretty much the whole election then and there!
No opinions or framing necessary because that was confirmed by where the losses occurred and how people polled on the issue. They lost 50 of 52 Leave seats FFS. | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 12:15 - May 7 with 1105 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 11:47 - May 7 by HARRY10 |
"That emboldened May to put forward a manifesto as suicidal as Foot’s from 1983."
eh ?
That has been explained - simply including stuff that could be traded away with the LibDems, should a coalition follow.... do try to keep up. It also highlights one of the obvious flaws with the PR guff.
I doubt most are even aware of what each parties manifesto states - if so Brexit would never have happened, given how it was full of misrepresentations, and absurd claims that could not be delivered.
Most vote on a combination of gut feeling, and how they perceive themselves - and will take on board only the things that reinforce those views.
Understanding how that 'gut feeling' is arrived at is the holy grail of politics, but rational thought and reasoned argument are usually -way down on any list of possible causes. |
Eh? You’re thinking of the 2015 election H.
There was never any consideration to going into the 2017 election with thoughts of a coalition with the Lib Drms. 2017 was post Brexit referendum. The LibnDems were damaged in 2015 after 5 years of coalition with the Tories.
May went into that election with a 20 point lead and gambled on alienating a large number of her core support and still getting a comfortable majority. [Post edited 7 May 2022 12:26]
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 12:17 - May 7 with 1103 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 11:39 - May 7 by Darth_Koont |
Why does everyone avoid 2017?
Put that in some reasonable context of the last 20 years of Labour losing its way and its voters. Otherwise I can only think you’re sticking your fingers in your ears. |
Both Lowhouse and myself addressed 2017. | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 12:18 - May 7 with 1101 views | J2BLUE |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 11:32 - May 7 by Lord_Lucan |
Aside from Blair the last Labour MP to have won a General Election was born over 100 years ago.
Having said that, I do believe there should be a harder left (Edit - or as was just mentioned a more Social Democrat Scandinavian option) but I'm not sure Labour is that vehicle. [Post edited 7 May 2022 17:11]
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We need PR.
There's no good argument against it other than from those who treat it like supporting a football team.
MPs would have to work together cross party. It would not make it harder to agree policies once they learn to grow up. [Post edited 7 May 2022 13:20]
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 12:29 - May 7 with 1079 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 12:18 - May 7 by J2BLUE |
We need PR.
There's no good argument against it other than from those who treat it like supporting a football team.
MPs would have to work together cross party. It would not make it harder to agree policies once they learn to grow up. [Post edited 7 May 2022 13:20]
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The two party system is completely flawed. In mainland Europe Tony Blair and Jeremy Corbyn would not be in the same political parties. Likewise Rees Mogg and Ken Clarke would not be in the same political parties.
But as long as we have FPTP we will be stuck with the two party system. PR has always been the fairer and more democratic way to go but it doesn't suit the Tories or Labour. | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 12:31 - May 7 with 1072 views | Darth_Koont |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 12:17 - May 7 by GlasgowBlue |
Both Lowhouse and myself addressed 2017. |
By saying that this was all down to May? And 2019 was all down to Boris?
We’re talking about millions of voters coming back to Labour in 2017. If that was a Labour right leader then they’d never stop talking about it.
Anyway, you and lowhouse in particular would never give Corbyn that credit because you’re fixated, disingenuous liars. | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 12:55 - May 7 with 1023 views | Mullet |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 10:56 - May 7 by DublinBlue84 |
That's exactly my point.
They'd rather enable full right wing policies that have destroyed peoples lives up and down the UK than actually compromise. They're more obsessed by keeping control of their own party and appealing to their core base, than trying to make the party appeal to more people, gaining power so they can win an election.
The Tories have been historically better at coming together and realising that sometimes they need to moderate their position in the interest of the party, that's something Labour have really struggled to do over the years, which has led to the situation where you have the Corbynistas literally deliberately scoring own goals out of spite like a child playing FIFA online who is pissed off at losing.
I understand that some Labour party figures don't want to compromise the parties position at all, but they really need to look at the bigger picture of what is happening to this country. If they don't wake up soon, then they will find it impossible for that Labour to ever win power back, especially with the anti-democratic reforms being made to the electoral commission which are scandalous. |
They're essentially the ERG for those embarrassed by their privilege or so disassociated from reality as to be no different from the patronised "Red Wall" types. There really isn't much difference at all between them.
Both idolise men who will say whatever they want to hear but won't take responsibility for their leadership. It's a viper's nest of psychological quirks, deficiencies and delusion when you put them both together. |  |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 12:58 - May 7 with 1006 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 12:10 - May 7 by ZXBlue |
Not sure how that is relevant. Its another dodge.
Corbyn, imo, is responsible for Brexit. Had he been remain and campaigned for it, he need only to have carried a small percentage of the labour vote to have swung the referendum.
But that is besides the point.
The actual point is that, as much as you may think someone like Corbyn, or Burnham is what we all need, history tells you that they cannot and will not win a GE. You know this. You also know that Starmer and Co. would be an improvement on what we have. But your dogmatism prevents you taking the least bad option. You would rather stand dying on your big high hill complaining its all unfair.
Ironically, the dogmatism over pragmatism, is the primary reason I could never vot for Corbyn.... Its great to have ideals, but you also have to live in the real world. |
You think Burnham is too left wing? Keep voting Tory and blaming Corbyn for making you do it then. | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 13:03 - May 7 with 992 views | ZXBlue |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 12:58 - May 7 by BanksterDebtSlave |
You think Burnham is too left wing? Keep voting Tory and blaming Corbyn for making you do it then. |
Read what is written. | | | |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 13:04 - May 7 with 990 views | ZXBlue |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 12:15 - May 7 by Darth_Koont |
Why are you “not sure why that is relevant”??! The compromise position and suggestion that Labour weren’t respecting the referendum vs Get Brexit Done was pretty much the whole election then and there!
No opinions or framing necessary because that was confirmed by where the losses occurred and how people polled on the issue. They lost 50 of 52 Leave seats FFS. |
what? | | | |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 13:11 - May 7 with 979 views | Mullet |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 12:58 - May 7 by BanksterDebtSlave |
You think Burnham is too left wing? Keep voting Tory and blaming Corbyn for making you do it then. |
Burnham would make a great PM. He's flawed, but he is of the right stuff for even most Tories to understand him etc.
But it's far too soon for him. Starmer for a term followed by Burnham would give this country the best shot of righting the numerous wrongs of decades of Tory treachery. | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 13:18 - May 7 with 962 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 13:11 - May 7 by Mullet |
Burnham would make a great PM. He's flawed, but he is of the right stuff for even most Tories to understand him etc.
But it's far too soon for him. Starmer for a term followed by Burnham would give this country the best shot of righting the numerous wrongs of decades of Tory treachery. |
Burnham has the ability to connect with people. He is also a very decent man.
He's further to the left than Starmer but doesn't come with the crank baggage that so many from that wing of the labour party do.
I do think that we are at peak Burnham now though. Burnham in ten years won't have the same fre in his belly or be as relevant as he is now. | |
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| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 13:58 - May 7 with 912 views | tractordownsouth |
| Labour ‘figures’ saying Starmer must resign on 11:39 - May 7 by Darth_Koont |
Why does everyone avoid 2017?
Put that in some reasonable context of the last 20 years of Labour losing its way and its voters. Otherwise I can only think you’re sticking your fingers in your ears. |
We've been over this before but the categorisation of 2017 as the 'only election where Labour has gained seats in 2 decades' is better spin than anyone from New Labour could come up with.
It implies that getting 262 seats in the 2017 defeat was better than winning 412 seats (2001) or 355 (2005). You could spin it the other way and say JC got the same number of seats after 7 years of austerity and the worst Tory campaign ever as Gordon Brown did after 13 years in office and a global economic crisis. |  |
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