| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 12:48 - Sep 22 with 1467 views | Bobbychase |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 11:31 - Sep 22 by StokieBlue |
Do you have evidence to support the assertion that society is getting more violent and that is proportional to the increase in violence and disorder at football games?
Do you honestly think some people don't behave differently in the tribal atmosphere of a football match than they do in the office or at home in the evening?
SB |
For starters
https://www.statista.com/statistics/288256/violent-crimes-in-england-and-wales/ |  |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 12:49 - Sep 22 with 1462 views | noggin |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 12:46 - Sep 22 by Bobbychase |
You don't think violence, in particular violence involving young men, is more commonplace these days? |
Compared to the late 70s, early 80s, no. |  |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 12:57 - Sep 22 with 1436 views | Illinoisblue |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 11:23 - Sep 22 by Bobbychase |
I think a more honest headline would be that society is getting more violent, and this is being reflected at football. I never think it helps the debate when journalists pretend football is somehow this separate entity where people who behave themselves impeccably Monday to Friday develop some sort of madness. |
Also the UK has had years and years and years of politicians lying and cheating with no consequences whatsoever, so I wonder if a little bit of “fk it, I’ll do what i want” thinking comes into it. |  |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 12:58 - Sep 22 with 1433 views | Bobbychase |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 12:49 - Sep 22 by noggin |
Compared to the late 70s, early 80s, no. |
I think lots of types of crime have gone down since then, but violent crime has increased | |
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| [Redacted] on 12:59 - Sep 22 with 1430 views | victorywilhappen |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 11:31 - Sep 22 by StokieBlue |
Do you have evidence to support the assertion that society is getting more violent and that is proportional to the increase in violence and disorder at football games?
Do you honestly think some people don't behave differently in the tribal atmosphere of a football match than they do in the office or at home in the evening?
SB |
[Redacted] |  | | |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 13:01 - Sep 22 with 1416 views | noggin |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 12:58 - Sep 22 by Bobbychase |
I think lots of types of crime have gone down since then, but violent crime has increased |
I just think that it wasn't so much considered a 'crime' back then. Men fighting was a regular thing after a few beers. | |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 13:08 - Sep 22 with 1372 views | itfcjoe |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 12:31 - Sep 22 by noggin |
Does a line of powder make people violent though? I would say alcohol is the choice of drug for those wanting to get aggressive. |
100% it does |  |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 13:10 - Sep 22 with 1368 views | Bobbychase |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 13:01 - Sep 22 by noggin |
I just think that it wasn't so much considered a 'crime' back then. Men fighting was a regular thing after a few beers. |
I was referring more to stabbings, gang fights, kids killing each other because of something said on social media etc | |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 13:15 - Sep 22 with 1344 views | noggin |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 13:08 - Sep 22 by itfcjoe |
100% it does |
What it does do, is allow the user to drink more without getting 'drunk' and slow. I would argue that the user would be looking for trouble regardless. | |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 13:16 - Sep 22 with 1345 views | stonojnr |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 12:31 - Sep 22 by noggin |
Does a line of powder make people violent though? I would say alcohol is the choice of drug for those wanting to get aggressive. |
Yes it absolutely does, its known to increase the users risk taking and create agitation in them, as well as induce paranoia that leads to far more random violent outbursts of behaviour.
Alcohol only loosens the drinkers inhibitions, those that act out violently from drink, are predisposed to violent traits to begin with, the alcohol doesn't make them become more violent, plus the amount they have to consume to get to that state usually makes them physically less capable.
Undoubtedly alot of the football violence we saw, and I witnessed, at the Euros at Wembley were people mixing both at the same time, probably combined with some cocktail of steroid abuse as well among some, they definitely weren't people fuelled just by drink.
And think back to the crowd trouble Euro 2016 Marseille, the Russians hadn't been downing cheap euro lager to get as aggressive as they did |  | | |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 13:18 - Sep 22 with 1323 views | noggin |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 13:16 - Sep 22 by stonojnr |
Yes it absolutely does, its known to increase the users risk taking and create agitation in them, as well as induce paranoia that leads to far more random violent outbursts of behaviour.
Alcohol only loosens the drinkers inhibitions, those that act out violently from drink, are predisposed to violent traits to begin with, the alcohol doesn't make them become more violent, plus the amount they have to consume to get to that state usually makes them physically less capable.
Undoubtedly alot of the football violence we saw, and I witnessed, at the Euros at Wembley were people mixing both at the same time, probably combined with some cocktail of steroid abuse as well among some, they definitely weren't people fuelled just by drink.
And think back to the crowd trouble Euro 2016 Marseille, the Russians hadn't been downing cheap euro lager to get as aggressive as they did |
So how do you explain the football violence in the 70s and 80s, because it wasn't cocaine. | |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 13:22 - Sep 22 with 1314 views | Parky |
How does this compare with other sporting events and more so, society? | | | |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 13:22 - Sep 22 with 1316 views | Bobbychase |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 13:18 - Sep 22 by noggin |
So how do you explain the football violence in the 70s and 80s, because it wasn't cocaine. |
I only started going in the mid 1980s but older fans tend to describe football violence of the 1970s and 1980s as much more of a mass-participation event - and often inside stadiums.
Violence now, apart from spontaneous stuff when groups meet, is often arranged and takes place away from the grounds. And because of that can have far greater consequences. | |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 13:31 - Sep 22 with 1299 views | noggin |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 13:22 - Sep 22 by Bobbychase |
I only started going in the mid 1980s but older fans tend to describe football violence of the 1970s and 1980s as much more of a mass-participation event - and often inside stadiums.
Violence now, apart from spontaneous stuff when groups meet, is often arranged and takes place away from the grounds. And because of that can have far greater consequences. |
That was to avoid the police and CCTV, which resulted in a lot of prison time for 'lads'. | |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 14:33 - Sep 22 with 1243 views | textbackup |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 12:06 - Sep 22 by StokieBlue |
I've never heard anyone say that.
It's also not an excuse for antisocial behaviour and shouldn't be used as one. It's also not true, we weren't locked down for two years.
SB |
I didn’t say you had heard anyone say that.
I also didn’t say it was an excuse.
Pointless reply |  |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 14:33 - Sep 22 with 1240 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 13:08 - Sep 22 by itfcjoe |
100% it does |
Have you ever actually taken coke Joe? It makes you more confident, but certainly never made me violent (or the people I was with). If anything it made people more loving (and chatty!)
Alcohol is far more synonymous with violence than coke or dope are. In fact I'd say cocaine gives a very similar effect to alcohol, but without the anger. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 14:36 - Sep 22 with 1237 views | textbackup |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 14:33 - Sep 22 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Have you ever actually taken coke Joe? It makes you more confident, but certainly never made me violent (or the people I was with). If anything it made people more loving (and chatty!)
Alcohol is far more synonymous with violence than coke or dope are. In fact I'd say cocaine gives a very similar effect to alcohol, but without the anger. |
On a match day, the two mixed together, add in that a few football songs… gets people on one | |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 14:36 - Sep 22 with 1234 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 13:16 - Sep 22 by stonojnr |
Yes it absolutely does, its known to increase the users risk taking and create agitation in them, as well as induce paranoia that leads to far more random violent outbursts of behaviour.
Alcohol only loosens the drinkers inhibitions, those that act out violently from drink, are predisposed to violent traits to begin with, the alcohol doesn't make them become more violent, plus the amount they have to consume to get to that state usually makes them physically less capable.
Undoubtedly alot of the football violence we saw, and I witnessed, at the Euros at Wembley were people mixing both at the same time, probably combined with some cocktail of steroid abuse as well among some, they definitely weren't people fuelled just by drink.
And think back to the crowd trouble Euro 2016 Marseille, the Russians hadn't been downing cheap euro lager to get as aggressive as they did |
Coke alone doesn't make you aggressive though. Fair enough if you're mixing it with other things, but it's not the coke per se. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 14:37 - Sep 22 with 1233 views | itfcjoe |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 14:33 - Sep 22 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Have you ever actually taken coke Joe? It makes you more confident, but certainly never made me violent (or the people I was with). If anything it made people more loving (and chatty!)
Alcohol is far more synonymous with violence than coke or dope are. In fact I'd say cocaine gives a very similar effect to alcohol, but without the anger. |
I haven't but been around enough people who have - on football days it just allows people to stay out drinking for longer, get more charged up and be more aggressive rather than fall into an alcoholic coma and naturally end their day/night | |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 14:41 - Sep 22 with 1215 views | NthQldITFC |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 11:21 - Sep 22 by Vaughan8 |
Personally I don't think people are punished/banned enough.
Didn't every playoff game last seaosn have something happen. Its pathetic really.
is it more morons, or just less security. I'm not sure. |
Apropos of nothing, it's just occurred to me that less lessons give you more morons, although it should of course be fewer lessons but that rather spoils it. |  |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 14:48 - Sep 22 with 1208 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 14:37 - Sep 22 by itfcjoe |
I haven't but been around enough people who have - on football days it just allows people to stay out drinking for longer, get more charged up and be more aggressive rather than fall into an alcoholic coma and naturally end their day/night |
Ok, so it wasn't strictly true when you replied "100% it does" to the question, "Does a line of powder make people violent though?" Because it doesn't. If you're mixing it with other stuff... well that depends what stuff and how much I guess.
If you haven't taken it I'm not sure how you can be an authority to be honest. These people you've been around getting violent, you presumably won't know what else they were taking (other than booze). From my own personal perspective, drinking and doing coke didn't make me violent, but this was in a party/club situation so maybe things are different in the tribal atmosphere of football.
I'd say, from personal experience, it's still the alcohol side of the equation that induces violence. Either way, too much of any of these things aren't a good idea at the footy (and I'd imagine you'd forget most of the match, which seems a bit daft!) | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 14:52 - Sep 22 with 1207 views | itfcjoe |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 14:48 - Sep 22 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Ok, so it wasn't strictly true when you replied "100% it does" to the question, "Does a line of powder make people violent though?" Because it doesn't. If you're mixing it with other stuff... well that depends what stuff and how much I guess.
If you haven't taken it I'm not sure how you can be an authority to be honest. These people you've been around getting violent, you presumably won't know what else they were taking (other than booze). From my own personal perspective, drinking and doing coke didn't make me violent, but this was in a party/club situation so maybe things are different in the tribal atmosphere of football.
I'd say, from personal experience, it's still the alcohol side of the equation that induces violence. Either way, too much of any of these things aren't a good idea at the footy (and I'd imagine you'd forget most of the match, which seems a bit daft!) |
https://www.lifeworkscommunity.com/blog/the-relationship-between-cocaine-abuse-a
WHilst you obviously have your own experience of it, sometimes being more neutral in it is a better perspective.
I'm not saying everyone who takes it becomes violent, but it leads to a level of aggression (when no doubt mixed with booze) that is far and away what normal drunks at football are like, or what football fans were like before it became so rife - maybe by making them more paranoid, less fearful or whatever [Post edited 22 Sep 2022 14:55]
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 15:18 - Sep 22 with 1157 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 14:52 - Sep 22 by itfcjoe |
https://www.lifeworkscommunity.com/blog/the-relationship-between-cocaine-abuse-a
WHilst you obviously have your own experience of it, sometimes being more neutral in it is a better perspective.
I'm not saying everyone who takes it becomes violent, but it leads to a level of aggression (when no doubt mixed with booze) that is far and away what normal drunks at football are like, or what football fans were like before it became so rife - maybe by making them more paranoid, less fearful or whatever [Post edited 22 Sep 2022 14:55]
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Hmm, I think 'Lifeworks' are somewhat biased as they offer programmes to get people off cocaine. Their headline there is also a bit OTT: "Why cocaine use leads to violence," because it frequently doesn't.
I appreciate it leads to a sensation of invincibility, increased confidence and reduced inhibitions, but these don't inherently lead to violence. I've been at lots of advertising parties where those 3 things have been evident due to coke, but not the violence. In fact I'm not aware of any situation I've been in where coke has led to violence. Maybe it's the circles we keep Joe!
I'd guess it's people who already have a proclivity to violence that are becoming violent on cocaine due to the above sensations (and also mixing it with lots of alcohol, which is a depressant of course). Young lads at the footy who want to get up to mischief using the coke to give them that confidence/sense of invincibility, rather than the coke itself causing otherwise innocent lambs to be violent thugs. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 15:35 - Sep 22 with 1131 views | Radlett_blue |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 13:18 - Sep 22 by noggin |
So how do you explain the football violence in the 70s and 80s, because it wasn't cocaine. |
In the 1970s & 1980s, the core of most football crowds was working class males aged 16-35. Now, ticket prices have soared, we have all seat stadiums & football fans are wealthier and older. |  |
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| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 15:37 - Sep 22 with 1129 views | jontysnut |
| Sharp rise in disorder at football games in England and Wales last season on 11:21 - Sep 22 by Vaughan8 |
Personally I don't think people are punished/banned enough.
Didn't every playoff game last seaosn have something happen. Its pathetic really.
is it more morons, or just less security. I'm not sure. |
Unfortunately gits pop up faster than people are able to ban them. |  | | |
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