| Anyone who opposes HS2 09:31 - Dec 1 with 3614 views | Ely_Blue |
Has obviously never travelled on the Eurostar to Paris, other than the horrendous overcrowding before boarding in St Pancras the comfort and speed of the service is second to none |  |
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| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 09:33 - Dec 1 with 3254 views | NthQldITFC |
Either that or they care about the destruction of ancient woodlands more than their own comfort and speed of service, the fools. |  |
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| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 09:36 - Dec 1 with 3224 views | Dubtractor |
| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 09:33 - Dec 1 by NthQldITFC |
Either that or they care about the destruction of ancient woodlands more than their own comfort and speed of service, the fools. |
Plus, the way we work is rapidly changing post covid, a change that would have happened eventually anyway, and more and more people are working from home or from other remote locations.
We've all heard how the rail services are struggling with 20% (I think) fewer passengers compared to pre covid, and that's just the start of the trend. |  |
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| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 09:50 - Dec 1 with 3180 views | belgablue |
Love the Eurostar, heading over to blighty this weekend as it happens. I'm a regular traveler so can skip the queues and enjoy the lounge which makes it even nicer as the main lounge and passport queues seem to be busier than I can remember.
I'm always consistently baffled by opposition to HS2. The high-speed trains over here are great and much more pleasant than flying. |  |
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| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 09:56 - Dec 1 with 3152 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 09:33 - Dec 1 by NthQldITFC |
Either that or they care about the destruction of ancient woodlands more than their own comfort and speed of service, the fools. |
…is the correct answer!
Chris Packham has done some great work highlighting this, and debunking argument that new planting of trees will offset the destruction. The ecosystems have developed over centuries, and also provide a much better carbon sink than new trees. |  | | |
| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 10:02 - Dec 1 with 3127 views | Fixed_It |
Can't say I'm a fan of HS2, but having travelled recently on the trains in Switzerland I have to say they put our rail network to shame in terms of comfort and efficiency. |  |
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| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 10:10 - Dec 1 with 3101 views | Lord_Lucan |
I've travelled to Amsterdam on it and I've also travelled in China on Bullet Trains
However - IMHO I don't think UK is big enough to warrant a high speed train, who really needs to save 15 mins to Birmingham.
You don't need a high speed train for comfort, you just need a decent train.
We would be better upgrading our existing network and more importantly developing a decent Northern train and metro system. |  |
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| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 10:10 - Dec 1 with 3105 views | geg1992 |
I really support HS2. The rail network in this country is a joke. Whenever I travel to other countries, notably in the Far East, I'm always amazed by their rail network and how easy and convenient it is to travel. Surely it will also assist in getting cars off the roads? And help economic growth? Although at the same time, the train prices need looking at for sure. The thing that also amazes me about rail travel in the Far East, is the reasonable pricing. [Post edited 1 Dec 2022 10:12]
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| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 11:05 - Dec 1 with 2969 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 10:10 - Dec 1 by geg1992 |
I really support HS2. The rail network in this country is a joke. Whenever I travel to other countries, notably in the Far East, I'm always amazed by their rail network and how easy and convenient it is to travel. Surely it will also assist in getting cars off the roads? And help economic growth? Although at the same time, the train prices need looking at for sure. The thing that also amazes me about rail travel in the Far East, is the reasonable pricing. [Post edited 1 Dec 2022 10:12]
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So's a beer - it's all relative
Mind you, train prices in UK are a scandal - this morning I booked open return Ipswich to London and it said £65, I thought that was very reasonable - after I paid I realised it was £65 each way.
Also - looked at possibility of train to Glasgow next week - it was cheaper to fly British Airways Business Class. | |
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| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 11:14 - Dec 1 with 2940 views | Keno |
| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 10:10 - Dec 1 by Lord_Lucan |
I've travelled to Amsterdam on it and I've also travelled in China on Bullet Trains
However - IMHO I don't think UK is big enough to warrant a high speed train, who really needs to save 15 mins to Birmingham.
You don't need a high speed train for comfort, you just need a decent train.
We would be better upgrading our existing network and more importantly developing a decent Northern train and metro system. |
" who really needs to save 15 mins to Birmingham"
maybe its more a case of making it easier to get away from the North? |  |
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| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 11:19 - Dec 1 with 2926 views | You_Bloo_Right |
| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 10:10 - Dec 1 by Lord_Lucan |
I've travelled to Amsterdam on it and I've also travelled in China on Bullet Trains
However - IMHO I don't think UK is big enough to warrant a high speed train, who really needs to save 15 mins to Birmingham.
You don't need a high speed train for comfort, you just need a decent train.
We would be better upgrading our existing network and more importantly developing a decent Northern train and metro system. |
With you on this Lucan.
Not sure what the latest is on the overall program but I recall there was talk of scrapping or scaling back on the northern upgrades that were in the original plan. Wrong way round IMO - if money is tight then scrap the London to Birmingham upgrade and improve the northern infrastructure. Probably too late for that. |  |
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| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 11:21 - Dec 1 with 2925 views | leitrimblue |
As failed to recognise that its gonna put my kids through college. Obviously the destruction of ancient woodland and the odd half arsed archaeological site is a shame. But the Midlands was already a bit of a sh1tehole and you can't stop progress.... |  | | |
| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 11:22 - Dec 1 with 2919 views | TractorWood |
| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 10:10 - Dec 1 by Lord_Lucan |
I've travelled to Amsterdam on it and I've also travelled in China on Bullet Trains
However - IMHO I don't think UK is big enough to warrant a high speed train, who really needs to save 15 mins to Birmingham.
You don't need a high speed train for comfort, you just need a decent train.
We would be better upgrading our existing network and more importantly developing a decent Northern train and metro system. |
Our network is effectively just geared up to serve London.
Anywhere else is a random after thought. HS2 sort of included.
Germany and Japan are amazing but they have a better distribution of economic geography. Ie Tourism in Bavaria, markets in Frankfurt, Politics in Berlin, industry in the Rheinland zone. |  |
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| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 11:29 - Dec 1 with 2887 views | UB9Blue |
I have this development about half a mile from my house. To see the destruction of woodland in the area is quite shocking. They say the offset will be planting even more trees than they destroy but these do not suddenly grow to full height in a few months. An area that HS2 replanted had all the samplings die due to lack of water and attention. | | | |
| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 11:33 - Dec 1 with 2874 views | Leaky |
| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 11:22 - Dec 1 by TractorWood |
Our network is effectively just geared up to serve London.
Anywhere else is a random after thought. HS2 sort of included.
Germany and Japan are amazing but they have a better distribution of economic geography. Ie Tourism in Bavaria, markets in Frankfurt, Politics in Berlin, industry in the Rheinland zone. |
Post 1945 Germany could basically redesign its rail network. We are stuck with our Victorian version. |  | | |
| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 11:41 - Dec 1 with 2810 views | Steve_M |
| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 10:10 - Dec 1 by geg1992 |
I really support HS2. The rail network in this country is a joke. Whenever I travel to other countries, notably in the Far East, I'm always amazed by their rail network and how easy and convenient it is to travel. Surely it will also assist in getting cars off the roads? And help economic growth? Although at the same time, the train prices need looking at for sure. The thing that also amazes me about rail travel in the Far East, is the reasonable pricing. [Post edited 1 Dec 2022 10:12]
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Yes, HS2 is about capacity rather than small increases in speed. Not making that case clear at the start of the project was fairly typical of Osborne and Cameron.
It's not the only part of the rail network that needs money spent on it but greater capacity allows for more freight trains and more commuter trains whereas incremental updates take whole swathes of the network out of service - witness the West coast mainline upgrade or the shear tedium of two decades of rail replacement buses between Ipswich and London. |  |
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| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 11:54 - Dec 1 with 2769 views | tractordownsouth |
I was previously against HS2 and still have some concerns about areas like Cornwall and Wales not benefitting from it despite having poor transport infrastructure, but it's definitely needed. And likewise, the environmental problems are legitimate but the issues with domestic flights, which will only get worse the longer we continue without a functioning train network, are more problematic.
The reason our economic performance is so bad is because we don't build anything, whether that's houses, railways or energy supply. We can't let NIMBYs (who are often rich people selfishly blocking projects which would benefit younger people or those on lower incomes) hold us back for another decade. [Post edited 1 Dec 2022 11:55]
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| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 11:54 - Dec 1 with 2765 views | tractordownsouth |
| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 10:10 - Dec 1 by Lord_Lucan |
I've travelled to Amsterdam on it and I've also travelled in China on Bullet Trains
However - IMHO I don't think UK is big enough to warrant a high speed train, who really needs to save 15 mins to Birmingham.
You don't need a high speed train for comfort, you just need a decent train.
We would be better upgrading our existing network and more importantly developing a decent Northern train and metro system. |
HS2 is about capacity rather than speed. | |
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| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 12:18 - Dec 1 with 2715 views | ElephantintheRoom |
But you want to go where Eurostar takes you - Paris. If you fly to ´Paris’ you end up miles from Paris so the rail service is better. It also connects you with Europe.
HS2 will take you to the outskirts of Birmingham - and maybe Manchester IF they don’t cancel it. | |
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| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 13:50 - Dec 1 with 2573 views | stonojnr |
| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 10:10 - Dec 1 by Lord_Lucan |
I've travelled to Amsterdam on it and I've also travelled in China on Bullet Trains
However - IMHO I don't think UK is big enough to warrant a high speed train, who really needs to save 15 mins to Birmingham.
You don't need a high speed train for comfort, you just need a decent train.
We would be better upgrading our existing network and more importantly developing a decent Northern train and metro system. |
The biggest issue with HS2 is actually letting that "it saves 15mins" benefit to become its stated sole purpose. Crossrail is only saving journey time too, but its actually transformational on making train journeys much more viable alternatives across London.
Fundamentally the WCML to Birmingham is full there are no more spare slots, there are no new trains we can buy thay fits even more capacity, there needs to be a new line to grow capacity for passengers & to get more trucks carrying freight off the roads.
So the alternative of building nothing means more air pollution on our roads or skies.
Take the slow train from Birmingham to Marylebone, which is the diversion route when the WCML breaks,which it does often, after its taken you 3hrs of travel with standing room only, youll be totally sold on HS2. | | | |
| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 15:07 - Dec 1 with 2494 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 13:50 - Dec 1 by stonojnr |
The biggest issue with HS2 is actually letting that "it saves 15mins" benefit to become its stated sole purpose. Crossrail is only saving journey time too, but its actually transformational on making train journeys much more viable alternatives across London.
Fundamentally the WCML to Birmingham is full there are no more spare slots, there are no new trains we can buy thay fits even more capacity, there needs to be a new line to grow capacity for passengers & to get more trucks carrying freight off the roads.
So the alternative of building nothing means more air pollution on our roads or skies.
Take the slow train from Birmingham to Marylebone, which is the diversion route when the WCML breaks,which it does often, after its taken you 3hrs of travel with standing room only, youll be totally sold on HS2. |
Well if it's a capacity thing then i am in favour of a new line - but I have always understood it to be a speed issue - in which case the whole project has been let down by the greatest piece of miscommunication since the beginning of man. | |
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| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 15:18 - Dec 1 with 2483 views | Oldsmoker |
| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 11:41 - Dec 1 by Steve_M |
Yes, HS2 is about capacity rather than small increases in speed. Not making that case clear at the start of the project was fairly typical of Osborne and Cameron.
It's not the only part of the rail network that needs money spent on it but greater capacity allows for more freight trains and more commuter trains whereas incremental updates take whole swathes of the network out of service - witness the West coast mainline upgrade or the shear tedium of two decades of rail replacement buses between Ipswich and London. |
Well said Steve.
HS2 was always about increasing capacity on existing routes.
HS2 takes the fast trains off those routes which means slow freight and stopping commuter trains can use them more efficiently.
The faster journey time to Birmingham was a consequence of a dedicated fast line but for the Media that was the soundbite rather than a boring more efficient network message. |  |
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| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 15:36 - Dec 1 with 2449 views | HARRY10 |
| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 09:50 - Dec 1 by belgablue |
Love the Eurostar, heading over to blighty this weekend as it happens. I'm a regular traveler so can skip the queues and enjoy the lounge which makes it even nicer as the main lounge and passport queues seem to be busier than I can remember.
I'm always consistently baffled by opposition to HS2. The high-speed trains over here are great and much more pleasant than flying. |
It is already obsolete.
The Eurostar has been up and running for decades (?). The HS2 absurdity is targetted to be completed by 2040 with phase one by 2033. And as with the cross London line it will over run.
the shift to working away from huge factory style offices is gaining pace. Workers will no congregate around where the information is (as now) but will see that information moved to them.
Sadly the UK is lagging behind parts of Europe with fast fibre.
However it will be as the locomotive replaced the short lived cowboy driving cattle, and the telegraph replaced the pony express.
Nobody can fail to have noticed the huge increase of internet usage. The pandemic (as with WW1 and the aeroplane) has speeded up development. The idea of a physical meeting miles away has been replaced by conference calls. Why travel into town and pay a solicitor to maintain oak panelled offices when he/she could speak with you via Zoom in any part of the UK, EU or even the globe ?
And we are supposed to believe that these changes will stop in a few months and two decades hence HS2 will still be viable ?
We need to be building for the future not recreating the past. | | | |
| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 16:56 - Dec 1 with 2394 views | monytowbray |
if you had a brain you'd be dangerous. |  |
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| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 17:42 - Dec 1 with 2340 views | cbower |
Yeah 'cos the whole of the North is desperate to get to London whenever and as fast as we can as it's the centre of our world. We don't need better local links to help improve the journeys of......... well almost everyone in fact. As long as we can get from Leeds to London in under 2 hours then everything will be better. We can look out of the window as we fly past environmental destruction so quickly we barely notice it. At the same time, those losers sitting on sluggish and dilipidated trains taking an hour to travel 25 miles to work ( if the companies don't cancel the train) can be grateful we have politicians who can't see that HS2 is out of date. I can talk to anyone all over the country and indeed the world if I have a decent broadband (ah, another failure of government). I don't need to get to and back from London in a few hours for an extortionate price.
So yeah, pretty much agree with you except for everything you have said. |  |
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| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 17:48 - Dec 1 with 2333 views | cbower |
| Anyone who opposes HS2 on 11:41 - Dec 1 by Steve_M |
Yes, HS2 is about capacity rather than small increases in speed. Not making that case clear at the start of the project was fairly typical of Osborne and Cameron.
It's not the only part of the rail network that needs money spent on it but greater capacity allows for more freight trains and more commuter trains whereas incremental updates take whole swathes of the network out of service - witness the West coast mainline upgrade or the shear tedium of two decades of rail replacement buses between Ipswich and London. |
If only it was about freight movement. I can't see them using it to move goods at 120mph myself. Maybe a new line could see more freight on the old lines but I still see it as a massive White Elephant and the money would be far better spent improving local infrastructure as this is what most of us use on a frequent basis. For everyone one person travelling from Leeds to London, I wonder how may travel from Leeds to Manchester for example? [Post edited 1 Dec 2022 17:57]
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