| Fawlty Towers Revival on 15:45 - Feb 8 with 2081 views | Dubtractor |
| Fawlty Towers Revival on 13:44 - Feb 8 by Trequartista |
Pretty sure he doesn’t mean he himself is being cancelled see also Stewart Lee’s Ricky Gervais sketch. Whether you agree or disagree with JK Rowling would you not agree she has been cancelled for her viewpoint? |
He has complained about his personal situation a few times fwiw.
I should add that I'm no woke warrior or anything like that, though have precisely zero views on the trans/Rowling drama as I don't have remotely enough involvement to care.
Edit: just to add/clarify in case of misinterpretation, anyone that genuinely uses the phase 'woke' as a derogatory term is probably a bit of a nob. [Post edited 8 Feb 2023 16:11]
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| Fawlty Towers Revival on 16:08 - Feb 8 with 2011 views | Wallingford_Boy |
Should be good, Cleese is very, very talented and won't want to tarnish a classic.
Cheer up you lot! |  |
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| Fawlty Towers Revival on 16:20 - Feb 8 with 1965 views | JimmyJazz |
| Fawlty Towers Revival on 14:43 - Feb 8 by Chondzoresk |
I don’t believe it! It will be One Foot in the Grave next or Father Ted…. |
My thoughts were that it could possibly be an updated One Foot in the Grave
My view is, by all means make a series, but don't call it Fawlty Towers. If it's good let it stand on it's own name
I guess calling it Flowery Tw@ts is a non-starter |  |
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| Fawlty Towers Revival on 16:29 - Feb 8 with 1937 views | itfcjoe |
| Fawlty Towers Revival on 15:45 - Feb 8 by Dubtractor |
He has complained about his personal situation a few times fwiw.
I should add that I'm no woke warrior or anything like that, though have precisely zero views on the trans/Rowling drama as I don't have remotely enough involvement to care.
Edit: just to add/clarify in case of misinterpretation, anyone that genuinely uses the phase 'woke' as a derogatory term is probably a bit of a nob. [Post edited 8 Feb 2023 16:11]
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There clearly is a 'cancel culture' in existence in modern society, whether people think the reasons for it are right or not it depends where they fall on the viewpoint of certain issues.
But I do find it laughable when people have been booted out of a job, lost contracts, career, livelihood and often family situation that because they have one article or a radio spot for 20 minutes it is proof that they haven't 'been cancelled'.....how much pain do people want to inflict on those who they disagree with? |  |
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| Fawlty Towers Revival on 16:37 - Feb 8 with 1877 views | HARRY10 |
| Fawlty Towers Revival on 13:44 - Feb 8 by Trequartista |
Pretty sure he doesn’t mean he himself is being cancelled see also Stewart Lee’s Ricky Gervais sketch. Whether you agree or disagree with JK Rowling would you not agree she has been cancelled for her viewpoint? |
Cancelled ?
More vacuous right bollo x
If a venue decides some rightie sh ite is not suitable the righties bleat 'cancel culture', blindingly missing the point that it is that venues choice, freedom to act as they see fit.
Much as if anyone is criticised now it is referred to as them being cancelled.
Just as the absurd 'woke'. Which is anything paranoid righties fear/don't like. It has now moved on to ridiculous levels of absurdity with the Mail and the Telegraph viaing ro see what perfectly innocent entities and practices can be labelled 'woke'.
We see this same intolerance in the Middle East and the US. Where both sets of bigots use rightie language to attack and justify violence against anyone considered different to their narrow view of society.
History should show where this can lead to. |  | | |
| Fawlty Towers Revival on 16:40 - Feb 8 with 1862 views | Dubtractor |
| Fawlty Towers Revival on 16:29 - Feb 8 by itfcjoe |
There clearly is a 'cancel culture' in existence in modern society, whether people think the reasons for it are right or not it depends where they fall on the viewpoint of certain issues.
But I do find it laughable when people have been booted out of a job, lost contracts, career, livelihood and often family situation that because they have one article or a radio spot for 20 minutes it is proof that they haven't 'been cancelled'.....how much pain do people want to inflict on those who they disagree with? |
To be clear, my comments originally purely relate to Cleese, who in my opinion has taken up his 'anti woke' position to try and make himself relevant. It seems to have been a successful tactic.
He hadn't originally stopped getting work because he said anything to get cancelled, the world had just moved on. | |
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| Fawlty Towers Revival on 16:46 - Feb 8 with 1854 views | LankHenners |
| Fawlty Towers Revival on 16:29 - Feb 8 by itfcjoe |
There clearly is a 'cancel culture' in existence in modern society, whether people think the reasons for it are right or not it depends where they fall on the viewpoint of certain issues.
But I do find it laughable when people have been booted out of a job, lost contracts, career, livelihood and often family situation that because they have one article or a radio spot for 20 minutes it is proof that they haven't 'been cancelled'.....how much pain do people want to inflict on those who they disagree with? |
People losing jobs, book deals, whatever because of something they've said or done is hardly a modern phenomenon though and has been a 'thing' long before the arbitrary point in time it became 'cancel culture'. I suppose it's probably fair to argue whether the boundary for what's 'acceptable' has shifted over time (which is natural) but it seems very easy for people to claim they or others have been 'cancelled' when sometimes it's just the natural consequences of their own actions.
Not sure everything in this matter is a simple case of people disagreeing either, although no doubt there are examples where the reaction/counter-reaction to things goes OTT. |  |
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| Fawlty Towers Revival on 16:56 - Feb 8 with 1786 views | solemio |
| Fawlty Towers Revival on 16:20 - Feb 8 by JimmyJazz |
My thoughts were that it could possibly be an updated One Foot in the Grave
My view is, by all means make a series, but don't call it Fawlty Towers. If it's good let it stand on it's own name
I guess calling it Flowery Tw@ts is a non-starter |
It should, of course, be Farty Towels | | | |
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| Fawlty Towers Revival on 16:57 - Feb 8 with 1787 views | itfcjoe |
| Fawlty Towers Revival on 16:46 - Feb 8 by LankHenners |
People losing jobs, book deals, whatever because of something they've said or done is hardly a modern phenomenon though and has been a 'thing' long before the arbitrary point in time it became 'cancel culture'. I suppose it's probably fair to argue whether the boundary for what's 'acceptable' has shifted over time (which is natural) but it seems very easy for people to claim they or others have been 'cancelled' when sometimes it's just the natural consequences of their own actions.
Not sure everything in this matter is a simple case of people disagreeing either, although no doubt there are examples where the reaction/counter-reaction to things goes OTT. |
I guess when it comes to de-platforming people for views that aren’t illegal to hold, ie holocaust denialism then it is a cancellation - ie, we people disagree with someone, so we will stop them being able to do events to people who are interested in listening.
There are views that are generally fairly mainstream that can be seen as so dangerous they can’t be aired | |
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| Fawlty Towers Revival on 17:12 - Feb 8 with 1735 views | solemio |
I enjoyed Fawlty Towers, but have only minute hopes of Cleese being able to reach that standard now.
In any case Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister were so much superior to FT. No, not the Financial Times. | | | |
| Fawlty Towers Revival on 17:18 - Feb 8 with 1708 views | PrideOfTheEast |
Sat at a table next to Cleese in a restaurant near St Pauls about 15 years ago. Cleese was very keen for the surrounding tables to hear his views on his most recent ex wife! | | | |
| Fawlty Towers Revival on 17:19 - Feb 8 with 1707 views | StokieBlue |
| Fawlty Towers Revival on 16:57 - Feb 8 by itfcjoe |
I guess when it comes to de-platforming people for views that aren’t illegal to hold, ie holocaust denialism then it is a cancellation - ie, we people disagree with someone, so we will stop them being able to do events to people who are interested in listening.
There are views that are generally fairly mainstream that can be seen as so dangerous they can’t be aired |
I don't think that's really the case.
Views such as holocaust denial are highly damaging and actually illegal in some countries. De-platforming someone for what is a vile, offensive and provably false view seems fair game to me.
Why should someone have a platform to spout something that is clearly false and potentially damaging? It just increases the divide and the lack of critical thinking that currently permeates society.
It's another form of "but both sides" which is a nonsense viewpoint when one side is clearly false.
SB |  | | |
| Fawlty Towers Revival on 17:40 - Feb 8 with 1627 views | factual_blue |
| Fawlty Towers Revival on 13:58 - Feb 8 by Guthrum |
My heart sank when I heard about this. Can't see it being up to the standards of the original, even with Cleese involved. |
Cleese's alimony doesn't pay for itself. |  |
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| Fawlty Towers Revival on 17:49 - Feb 8 with 1602 views | OldFart71 |
Well the Budgies did win a few games before the 0-3 defeat against Burnley. | | | |
| Fawlty Towers Revival on 17:54 - Feb 8 with 1599 views | LankHenners |
| Fawlty Towers Revival on 16:57 - Feb 8 by itfcjoe |
I guess when it comes to de-platforming people for views that aren’t illegal to hold, ie holocaust denialism then it is a cancellation - ie, we people disagree with someone, so we will stop them being able to do events to people who are interested in listening.
There are views that are generally fairly mainstream that can be seen as so dangerous they can’t be aired |
I think I see what you're getting at but that's a slightly extreme example - I don't think anybody would reasonably say holocaust deniers are victims of cancel culture! I think things like that are a separate issue anyway otherwise they're essentially being included in the same category as a TV show getting taken off air because someone says a slur in it for e.g.
Obviously there are lots of people for whom it's advantageous to stir this up because it provokes reaction and gets them attention to exploit and so on which is why ultimately for me 'cancel culture' is a bit of a moral panic. In reality the vast vast majority of things people complain about are either fair dos or whatever it is is forgotten about as quickly as the noise around it emerged.
It's easy to fall into the trap of thinking everyone's out to cancel someone but especially as far as social media's concerned there's 1000s of opinions being batted back and forth over what can be relatively minor things and if you just don't engage with it it becomes very clear it's a fuss over nothing from everyone involved. | |
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| Fawlty Towers Revival on 18:03 - Feb 8 with 1559 views | Trequartista |
| Fawlty Towers Revival on 16:37 - Feb 8 by HARRY10 |
Cancelled ?
More vacuous right bollo x
If a venue decides some rightie sh ite is not suitable the righties bleat 'cancel culture', blindingly missing the point that it is that venues choice, freedom to act as they see fit.
Much as if anyone is criticised now it is referred to as them being cancelled.
Just as the absurd 'woke'. Which is anything paranoid righties fear/don't like. It has now moved on to ridiculous levels of absurdity with the Mail and the Telegraph viaing ro see what perfectly innocent entities and practices can be labelled 'woke'.
We see this same intolerance in the Middle East and the US. Where both sets of bigots use rightie language to attack and justify violence against anyone considered different to their narrow view of society.
History should show where this can lead to. |
I agree with you on this part:
Right-wing people are using culture wars to bleat about cancel culture, and right-wing newspapers such as the Mail are stoking this. These people are not pc in the egalitarian sense of the word. They will discriminate against certain groups.
Here's where I disagree:
John Cleese is not right-wing, nor is Ricky Gervais, nor is Stephen Fry, nor is George Orwell for that matter (and nor am I). All these people are pc in the egalitarian sense of the word. They are anti-discriminatory and anti all the -isms. But they are not pc in the authoritarian sense of the word. That is why they identify and oppose cancel culture, and the "righties" hitch a ride on it for their own purposes.
"History should show where this can lead to." I am in agreement with absolutely, whether it be 'righties' leading to authoritarian fascism such as Hitler, or the radical leftists leading to authoritarian communism such as Stalin or Mao. |  |
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| Fawlty Towers Revival on 18:12 - Feb 8 with 1545 views | Trequartista |
| Fawlty Towers Revival on 15:45 - Feb 8 by Dubtractor |
He has complained about his personal situation a few times fwiw.
I should add that I'm no woke warrior or anything like that, though have precisely zero views on the trans/Rowling drama as I don't have remotely enough involvement to care.
Edit: just to add/clarify in case of misinterpretation, anyone that genuinely uses the phase 'woke' as a derogatory term is probably a bit of a nob. [Post edited 8 Feb 2023 16:11]
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I'm not trying to be clever here but you are saying it's poor form to use woke as a derogatory term shortly after claiming not be a woke warrior, which doesn't sound very complimentary!
To be fair though, I agree, and try to avoid it myself now as a derogatory term because it is such an ambiguous word meaning (at least) two entirely different definitions. | |
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| Fawlty Towers Revival on 18:26 - Feb 8 with 1497 views | stonojnr |
| Fawlty Towers Revival on 17:12 - Feb 8 by solemio |
I enjoyed Fawlty Towers, but have only minute hopes of Cleese being able to reach that standard now.
In any case Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister were so much superior to FT. No, not the Financial Times. |
I watched the repeats of YM and YPM recently and I used to think they were quite funny when I watched them in the 80s, and whilst there are some funny lines/moments and its funny how things stay the same in government
Once you work out the way the writers have constructed an episode, you realise theyre just using the same structure and comedy beats all the time, and just changing some of the lines, and then its not really that funny anymore because you can see where theyre going with it long before the punchline, its become like a Two Ronnies sketch.
maybe its because I binge watched them, but it was really noticeable how often theyd rely on an incredibly wordy sentence by Humphrey, just to get a laugh, or Hacker would look confused just to get a laugh. | | | |
| Fawlty Towers Revival on 18:28 - Feb 8 with 1488 views | Trequartista |
| Fawlty Towers Revival on 14:05 - Feb 8 by BlueBadger |
People don't like bigotry. It's not very nice. Bigots aren't very nice. They're the most cowardly form of bullies going. People who aren't very nice don't get invited to stuff. Bullies ultimately end up not getting invited to stuff.
When you are essentially arguing that a section of the population who's approach to their identify and sexuality 'don't count' and shouldn't be allowed to participate in society you are a bigot.
Waitrose Essentials Katie Holmes has been doing that. The HP franchise had a huge number of LGBTQ fans that she's essentially decided to sh1t on with her sh1twitted and now she's unsurprisingly not particularly welcome at fan conventions.
Mate of mine who was a huge fan who often cited her whole 'no one lives in a closet at Hogwarts' thing) came out as transgender a few years ago and was heartbroken by JKR deciding that actually, there's T's and C's to be applied to that
Stephen Fry's main objection to 'PC' is this:
'I've always championed things that have been regarded as rather leftish, simply for personal reasons, like you know gay equality, being a gay man. Being Jewish as well, from a family many of whom were destroyed, I always say I've never particularly been big fan of racism. And as someone who's lived with bipolar disorder all my life, mental health is something I've spoken up about.
I've always been on the side of these things and I've been very happy to see the end to the national conversation in saner and saner ways. But I do not believe for a second that political correctness has hastened those advances, at all.
And my only problem with politically correctness really, apart from the fact that it's po-faced, sanctimonious, self-righteous occasionally, is that it's not effective.
I want people to be effective.
I want, yes, gay people and transgender people and people of all kinds of races and, you know, marginal identities as they may see themselves – I want them to feel comfortable in the world and not hated and not afraid. But I don't think political correctness is the way to achieve that.
That's my problem.'
(Source: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/stephen-fry-political-correctness-1.46626
He's basically throwing the towel in a saying 'sometimes people are a bit hamfisted and bigots gonna bigot, what'cha gonna do'.
The short answer is 'I dunno. But stopping from challenging and confronting them probably won't work'. [Post edited 8 Feb 2023 14:13]
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The link doesn't work but I trust the quotes. I agree with all his quotes here 100%, but I don't agree with your summing up. I don't see what he has said to conclude he is throwing in the towel and not challenging bigotry or discrimination because it won't have any effect. He's just saying that enforcing pc (ie the authoritarian sense of the word) on people is not going to solve things. Things that have happened decades ago such as the abolition of slavery or civil rights or women's rights weren't earnt by political correctness. | |
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| Fawlty Towers Revival on 18:53 - Feb 8 with 1433 views | itfcjoe |
| Fawlty Towers Revival on 17:19 - Feb 8 by StokieBlue |
I don't think that's really the case.
Views such as holocaust denial are highly damaging and actually illegal in some countries. De-platforming someone for what is a vile, offensive and provably false view seems fair game to me.
Why should someone have a platform to spout something that is clearly false and potentially damaging? It just increases the divide and the lack of critical thinking that currently permeates society.
It's another form of "but both sides" which is a nonsense viewpoint when one side is clearly false.
SB |
Sorry - that has read totally wrong - I mean deplatformung for holocaust denial is correct, but that there are a lot of views nowhere near as controversial that are seeing de-platforming so where defines where that line is drawn | |
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| Fawlty Towers Revival on 18:54 - Feb 8 with 1417 views | StokieBlue |
| Fawlty Towers Revival on 18:53 - Feb 8 by itfcjoe |
Sorry - that has read totally wrong - I mean deplatformung for holocaust denial is correct, but that there are a lot of views nowhere near as controversial that are seeing de-platforming so where defines where that line is drawn |
Thanks for the clarification.
SB | | | |
| Fawlty Towers Revival on 19:06 - Feb 8 with 1375 views | Trequartista |
| Fawlty Towers Revival on 16:46 - Feb 8 by LankHenners |
People losing jobs, book deals, whatever because of something they've said or done is hardly a modern phenomenon though and has been a 'thing' long before the arbitrary point in time it became 'cancel culture'. I suppose it's probably fair to argue whether the boundary for what's 'acceptable' has shifted over time (which is natural) but it seems very easy for people to claim they or others have been 'cancelled' when sometimes it's just the natural consequences of their own actions.
Not sure everything in this matter is a simple case of people disagreeing either, although no doubt there are examples where the reaction/counter-reaction to things goes OTT. |
I think that's a good point in that things that have always existed have seen boundaries changed. Let's take Dizzee Rascal. I thought everyone loved him. His music has been removed from the Coronation celebrations playlist. I found out he had been convicted of assaulting his partner. 10 years ago, perhaps he wouldn't have been invited in person to a Coronation celebration, but they wouldn't have removed his music from a playlist. The boundaries have changed, but the cancellation has always been there. To take it to the extremes to prove the point, if he'd committed mass murder he'd always have been cancelled, if he'd committed a parking violation, he'd never have been cancelled. (Well, we're not quite there yet :-) ) | |
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| Fawlty Towers Revival on 19:28 - Feb 8 with 1315 views | Dubtractor |
| Fawlty Towers Revival on 18:12 - Feb 8 by Trequartista |
I'm not trying to be clever here but you are saying it's poor form to use woke as a derogatory term shortly after claiming not be a woke warrior, which doesn't sound very complimentary!
To be fair though, I agree, and try to avoid it myself now as a derogatory term because it is such an ambiguous word meaning (at least) two entirely different definitions. |
Yeah, I added the edit to hopefully show that I was initially using it as a tongue in cheek reference, self mocking if you like.
Basically I'm not someone who goes around policing views on the internet, even if I disagree with them. It's why I give those sort of threads on here a swerve - the last few years of 'culture war' bullsh1t result in people that would otherwise rub along just fine spending all their time focussing on the stuff that they disagree on. It is tedious and I refuse to join in! | |
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| Fawlty Towers Revival on 19:38 - Feb 8 with 1286 views | J2BLUE |
| Fawlty Towers Revival on 19:28 - Feb 8 by Dubtractor |
Yeah, I added the edit to hopefully show that I was initially using it as a tongue in cheek reference, self mocking if you like.
Basically I'm not someone who goes around policing views on the internet, even if I disagree with them. It's why I give those sort of threads on here a swerve - the last few years of 'culture war' bullsh1t result in people that would otherwise rub along just fine spending all their time focussing on the stuff that they disagree on. It is tedious and I refuse to join in! |
I get involved in a few of those threads but this is largely my stance as well. If it’s something crystal clear that is wrong then I will of course challenge it but when it’s a grey area I’m not going to demand people conform with my view like plenty on Twitter seem to do.
I also think sometimes you do need to hear both sides rather than just attack the other side and refuse to listen. Obviously that does not apply in the crystal clear situations mentioned above. |  |
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| Fawlty Towers Revival on 20:01 - Feb 8 with 1242 views | itfcjoe |
| Fawlty Towers Revival on 19:06 - Feb 8 by Trequartista |
I think that's a good point in that things that have always existed have seen boundaries changed. Let's take Dizzee Rascal. I thought everyone loved him. His music has been removed from the Coronation celebrations playlist. I found out he had been convicted of assaulting his partner. 10 years ago, perhaps he wouldn't have been invited in person to a Coronation celebration, but they wouldn't have removed his music from a playlist. The boundaries have changed, but the cancellation has always been there. To take it to the extremes to prove the point, if he'd committed mass murder he'd always have been cancelled, if he'd committed a parking violation, he'd never have been cancelled. (Well, we're not quite there yet :-) ) |
Funny how there is such inconsistencies about things like that, plenty of high profile personalities have been done for domestic abuse and still get on fine whereas there is a ‘cancellation’ of Dizzie but others just as bad don’t get cancelled, or those who can afford to send out SLAPP notices every time they are mentioned in the press
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone | |
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