| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? 21:35 - Apr 30 with 7252 views | noggin |
He has no idea about the struggles of ordinary working people, does he? |  |
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| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 18:28 - May 1 with 2035 views | DJR |
| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 17:13 - May 1 by factual_blue |
There's an interesting argument that says Trades Unions are indeed capitalists.
As Joe Gormley pointed during the 1970s miners' strikes, all his members wanted were a nice car for themselves, and a washing machine for their wives.
Leaving aside the implicit sexism, what could be more capitalist than seeking to gain the fruits of the acquisitive society? |
That sounds to me an argument that those on the right might make. |  | | |
| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 18:28 - May 1 with 2035 views | lowhouseblue |
| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 16:11 - May 1 by noggin |
Lol. So accept the status quo or shut up. Britain is great! |
who said accept the status quo. the choice is between doing something that leads to change or just posing on the internet. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 18:33 - May 1 with 2004 views | Herbivore |
| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 17:21 - May 1 by chicoazul |
I don’t think it does particularly no. I’m aware there are some studies that say huge wealth inequality is a bad thing for society but I’m not convinced. |
You've never really been overly worried about evidence. |  |
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| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 18:50 - May 1 with 1986 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 18:28 - May 1 by DJR |
That sounds to me an argument that those on the right might make. |
The whole left and right thing is complete tosh, It is just like football fans completely being blind to anything but their own coloured rosette - of which I am probably one.
Hitler was for nationalisation (was he a left winger)?
Tories got a landslide due to the traditional northern working class folk voting for Boris because of immigration and Brexit. (Are they right wingers)?
Can't remember what paper it was who drew that really bad cartoon of Serena Williams but they were quite rightly pulled up (but not substantiated) of racism - yet The Guardian repeatedly prints anti semitic cartoons - of which there was one the other day, but they get away with it because the angry people put their heads down and think it will blow over.. Nothing to see here
Quite laughable really.
It's not just the UK, the world needs a reset but it's not going to happen because where it matters the citizens either have no power or are force fed false information. Everywhere is getting bigger, everyone is running out of space, the world population has exploded and Big Gov is completely controlling everything.
It's almost definitely impossible to dismantle, we are all screwed baby. [Post edited 1 May 2023 18:53]
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| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 19:11 - May 1 with 1946 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 07:05 - May 1 by thebooks |
He was very leftwing as a student, and as Factual says has solid family credentials.
The road to the Labour right is a well-tread one, though. Such a shame — a real missed opportunity to actually try and fix things. |
What opportunity has he missed to fix things? How can he from his party’s current position? Surely we have to give him a chance of actually having a majority in the HoC before he can be judged?
Everyone left of centre seems to hate Blair for being a ‘Red Tory’. But things were immensely better under his administration (but Iraq war, yes I know and agree - I’m talking about the improvements they made across a lot of areas of society and the environment). If we can’t have perfect, at least let’s see if Starmer offers better, where fewer people are dying before they can get NHS treatment or are having to send their kids to school without breakfast. Or do we all really want more of this Tory mess?
If labour/Starmer get in and things get even worse, then criticise him away. If that happens I’ll happily join in. |  |
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| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 19:22 - May 1 with 1935 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 19:11 - May 1 by Swansea_Blue |
What opportunity has he missed to fix things? How can he from his party’s current position? Surely we have to give him a chance of actually having a majority in the HoC before he can be judged?
Everyone left of centre seems to hate Blair for being a ‘Red Tory’. But things were immensely better under his administration (but Iraq war, yes I know and agree - I’m talking about the improvements they made across a lot of areas of society and the environment). If we can’t have perfect, at least let’s see if Starmer offers better, where fewer people are dying before they can get NHS treatment or are having to send their kids to school without breakfast. Or do we all really want more of this Tory mess?
If labour/Starmer get in and things get even worse, then criticise him away. If that happens I’ll happily join in. |
If it wasn't for Iraq, Blair would already have a statue.
Tony Blair was led up the garden path by Bush 2, He did benefit by a global upturn but ultimately Blair was a pretty impressive beast. Brown was considered to be the big boss but he never had it in him - or maybe he was just a busted flush by the time he got the chance. | |
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| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 07:17 - May 2 with 1807 views | Darth_Koont |
| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 13:53 - May 1 by lowhouseblue |
seriously, find a party you support (the greens, respect, the workers party of great britain?), commit to their programme (perhaps it doesn't represent all of your views to the nth degree, but otherwise you'll have to be in a party of one), then come back and tell us how many mps they've elected and what in the country they have changed in the slightest. beyond that you're just pompous waffle. |
Gmpf. Don’t be ludicrous.
Our outdated electoral system is stitched up between these self-serving clowns. That’s why we only get the same bumbling, visionless and ineffective politics that have turned the UK into an unbalanced basket case ill-equipped for the current world, let alone what lies ahead.
You back this closed system and these people (Tory or Labour) to the hilt. Why don’t you find another country to feck up? |  |
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| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 07:22 - May 2 with 1795 views | Darth_Koont |
| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 18:28 - May 1 by lowhouseblue |
who said accept the status quo. the choice is between doing something that leads to change or just posing on the internet. |
What change are you talking about?
I seem to remember you being allergic to change when it was on offer. Or is this you being disingenuous and running interference for establishment politics as per?
It’s a rhetorical question. | |
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| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 07:27 - May 2 with 1793 views | Darth_Koont |
| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 17:25 - May 1 by DJR |
Rather unusually for the Tories, Cameron led a government that was relatively socially liberal. It was, however, very right wing economically, and eschewed the Keynsian philosophy of greater Government spending during a recession which would have avoided the mess we are in now (see, for example, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64970708.amp )
As such, Cameron and Osborne were perfect bedfellows for the Orange Book Liberals such as Clegg and Laws.
And according to someone I know, who is close to someone high up in New Labour circles now an adviser to Sadiq Khan, the Blairites were pretty supportive of Cameron and Osborne.
This to me is proof of the drift of politics rightwards over the last 40 years, with Corbyn being the last hurrah for anything much different. And these days even socially progressive politics are in retreat, with the supposed need to appease the anti-woke.
[Post edited 1 May 2023 17:39]
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Indeed. And now the sh/t is really starting to hit the fan re: the underlying socio-economic issues across the country so that it’s even starting to bite the middle class and their kids.
That drift right is starting to look authoritarian as it becomes more and more self-serving and detached from reality. | |
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| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 07:49 - May 2 with 1768 views | mrshallisfit |
Sorry but your thinking behind this post is very 2D. |  | | |
| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 07:50 - May 2 with 1767 views | mrshallisfit |
Why did Clement Attlee join? | | | |
| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 08:10 - May 2 with 1754 views | tractordownsouth |
| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 12:35 - May 1 by pointofblue |
I’m honestly wondering what the difference would be to Sunak winning again. Despite being more right wing than any Labour government of the past, at least Blair’s government did have a vision to improve the country, even if it wasn’t enough of a step. This lot… |
Maybe the Labour communication strategy needs work, but on the policy substance there are plenty of differences. These are just off the top of my head so there are probably some I’ve missed.
28bn annual investment to tackle climate change and transition to renewables
Reinstating the 300k annual housing target scrapped by the Tories
Ending Section 21 evictions
Doubling number of training places for doctors and nurses
Mental health treatment within a month
Ending non dom status
Funding breakfast clubs in state schools by charging VAT on private school fees
Extending 30 free hours of childcare to two year olds
Reversing the Rwanda policy |  |
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| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 09:35 - May 2 with 1720 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 08:10 - May 2 by tractordownsouth |
Maybe the Labour communication strategy needs work, but on the policy substance there are plenty of differences. These are just off the top of my head so there are probably some I’ve missed.
28bn annual investment to tackle climate change and transition to renewables
Reinstating the 300k annual housing target scrapped by the Tories
Ending Section 21 evictions
Doubling number of training places for doctors and nurses
Mental health treatment within a month
Ending non dom status
Funding breakfast clubs in state schools by charging VAT on private school fees
Extending 30 free hours of childcare to two year olds
Reversing the Rwanda policy |
Right to concentrate on policy but these personal attacks on Sunak, and his family, could be counter productive.
One key factor, in any election, is those who decide not to vote. Labour voters who stayed at home and didn’t vote in the last election contributed towards to Tory landslide. If Starmer keeps attacking the player, and not the ball, there will less be apathy from traditional Tory voters. |  |
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| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 12:13 - May 2 with 1665 views | DJR |
| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 07:27 - May 2 by Darth_Koont |
Indeed. And now the sh/t is really starting to hit the fan re: the underlying socio-economic issues across the country so that it’s even starting to bite the middle class and their kids.
That drift right is starting to look authoritarian as it becomes more and more self-serving and detached from reality. |
These snippets from the Guardian on Starmer's interview on the Today Programme.
"Starmer suggests he no longer backs increasing income tax for top 5%, saying he's not like other 'tax and spend' Labour leaders", [this coming on top of a refusal to increase the low rates of capital gains tax which enable the wealthy (such as Sunak) to limit the tax they pay.]
"Starmer argued that the “high-tax, low-growth” model did not work. But there are plenty of people on the left who believe that there is a “high-tax, high-growth” model that might work. Starmer does not seem inclined to try."
I'm one of the plenty on the left, but sadly Starmer is ruling out a model which the wealthiest, most equal and most economically successful countries in Western Europe follow. [Post edited 2 May 2023 12:33]
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| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 12:18 - May 2 with 1641 views | tractordownsouth |
| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 09:35 - May 2 by Pinewoodblue |
Right to concentrate on policy but these personal attacks on Sunak, and his family, could be counter productive.
One key factor, in any election, is those who decide not to vote. Labour voters who stayed at home and didn’t vote in the last election contributed towards to Tory landslide. If Starmer keeps attacking the player, and not the ball, there will less be apathy from traditional Tory voters. |
That's a fair point but the post I was replying to was more about policy after an election rather than the campaign tactics during it.
I'm comfortable with the idea of personal attacks on Sunak because part of his and every otherTory Prime Minister's strategy has been to distance themselves from the previous incumbents despite serving in their governments. However, the one about child abusers overstepped the mark and frustratingly could have been worded in a way which was much more tasteful while still making the same point. For example, saying Sunak and the Tories' underfunding of the judiciary has resulted in a number of child abusers not being caught or having their trials delayed, rather than implying he's comfortable with letting them escape prison, would have been a fair point.
I guess they went for the creating outrage approach to generate publicity, which has done the trick. | |
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| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 13:20 - May 2 with 1584 views | Radlett_blue |
| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 08:10 - May 2 by tractordownsouth |
Maybe the Labour communication strategy needs work, but on the policy substance there are plenty of differences. These are just off the top of my head so there are probably some I’ve missed.
28bn annual investment to tackle climate change and transition to renewables
Reinstating the 300k annual housing target scrapped by the Tories
Ending Section 21 evictions
Doubling number of training places for doctors and nurses
Mental health treatment within a month
Ending non dom status
Funding breakfast clubs in state schools by charging VAT on private school fees
Extending 30 free hours of childcare to two year olds
Reversing the Rwanda policy |
All these come with huge costs & while I agree with ending non-dom status, it isn't going to make a big difference to public finances. If Starmer goes with a full-on menu of expensive government programmes, he will immediately create a financial crisis similar to that spawned by Truss & Kwarteng's mad mini budget. |  |
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| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 14:00 - May 2 with 1529 views | StokieBlue |
| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 16:12 - May 1 by chicoazul |
Most sincerely I do yes. |
You've written some really stupid things on here over the years but clearly you're trying for a new number one.
SB |  | | |
| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 14:13 - May 2 with 1488 views | leitrimblue |
| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 18:28 - May 1 by lowhouseblue |
who said accept the status quo. the choice is between doing something that leads to change or just posing on the internet. |
It's so cute that people think voting Labour will lead to genuine social change |  | | |
| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 14:22 - May 2 with 1462 views | Darth_Koont |
| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 14:13 - May 2 by leitrimblue |
It's so cute that people think voting Labour will lead to genuine social change |
Indeed. They’re an establishment-approved wet blanket to stop change or at least minimise it.
That’s why Starmer and Labour get an incredibly easy ride from even the centrist press and soft Conservatives. And why their lies and dishonesty towards progressive voters and their values aren’t just ignored but noddingly approved. | |
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| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 15:58 - May 2 with 1389 views | tractordownsouth |
| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 13:20 - May 2 by Radlett_blue |
All these come with huge costs & while I agree with ending non-dom status, it isn't going to make a big difference to public finances. If Starmer goes with a full-on menu of expensive government programmes, he will immediately create a financial crisis similar to that spawned by Truss & Kwarteng's mad mini budget. |
I'm sure the manifesto will include how to fund it when it comes out. Even so, doing all the things I listed without increased revenue probably still wouldn't come close to the Truss/Kwarteng sh1tshow. | |
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| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 16:06 - May 2 with 1372 views | chicoazul |
| Why did Kier Starmer join the Labour Party? on 18:33 - May 1 by Herbivore |
You've never really been overly worried about evidence. |
That’s the thing with evidence though bubalah, you can always find experts who disagree. |  |
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