| ITV Debate 21:02 - Jun 4 with 17368 views | Zx1988 |
Not holding out much hope of Sunak wanting to debate properly. Assuming it'll be 60mins of him whining 'but Corbyn', no? |  |
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| ITV Debate on 10:25 - Jun 5 with 1402 views | GlasgowBlue |
| ITV Debate on 10:11 - Jun 5 by _clive_baker_ |
Yep, its outrageous that politicians are allowed to stand up in front of such a big audience and peddle such unsubstantiated b0llocks. Point is though, as you say, for every 10 people that saw it, as with the media, I would think 1 will see the small print on page 12 a couple of weeks later.
Sunak probably 'won' the debate last night in terms of sentiment off the back of peddling nonsense soundbites and Starmer having very little reply other than 'yeah but the Tories'. Its a real sorry state for British politics. |
It's an awful format that doesn't allow facts to be challenged. As I said earlier, sit them in front of Andrew Neil and he would forensically challenge everything they said. |  |
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| ITV Debate on 10:36 - Jun 5 with 1357 views | Pinewoodblue |
| ITV Debate on 10:25 - Jun 5 by GlasgowBlue |
It's an awful format that doesn't allow facts to be challenged. As I said earlier, sit them in front of Andrew Neil and he would forensically challenge everything they said. |
Would love to see Andrew Neil interview each of them, asking the same questions, then splice the two interviews together. |  |
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| ITV Debate on 10:48 - Jun 5 with 1338 views | mutters |
| ITV Debate on 10:11 - Jun 5 by _clive_baker_ |
Yep, its outrageous that politicians are allowed to stand up in front of such a big audience and peddle such unsubstantiated b0llocks. Point is though, as you say, for every 10 people that saw it, as with the media, I would think 1 will see the small print on page 12 a couple of weeks later.
Sunak probably 'won' the debate last night in terms of sentiment off the back of peddling nonsense soundbites and Starmer having very little reply other than 'yeah but the Tories'. Its a real sorry state for British politics. |
Sadly they all do it, though some are considerably worse than others. Its all about spinning something, even if the grain of truth is so minute to gain an advantage. The problem is if politicians spoke the truth they would never get elected.
It was clear from last night that labours approach is "we are not the tories", and to get elected in a month should be enough. I do worry about what that means for our country as labour has not yet indicated what they are going to do that is different. I had hoped that we would see more what they are about during this election campaign but I am still waiting to see.
No idea where to vote at the moment. Even Ed Davey is starting to look like an option, mainly because he looks like he is having a lot of fun during the campaigning :-D
https://www.thepoke.com/2024/05/31/lib-dems-style-of-campaigning-funny-comments/ |  |
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| ITV Debate on 11:04 - Jun 5 with 1313 views | _clive_baker_ |
| ITV Debate on 10:48 - Jun 5 by mutters |
Sadly they all do it, though some are considerably worse than others. Its all about spinning something, even if the grain of truth is so minute to gain an advantage. The problem is if politicians spoke the truth they would never get elected.
It was clear from last night that labours approach is "we are not the tories", and to get elected in a month should be enough. I do worry about what that means for our country as labour has not yet indicated what they are going to do that is different. I had hoped that we would see more what they are about during this election campaign but I am still waiting to see.
No idea where to vote at the moment. Even Ed Davey is starting to look like an option, mainly because he looks like he is having a lot of fun during the campaigning :-D
https://www.thepoke.com/2024/05/31/lib-dems-style-of-campaigning-funny-comments/ |
That's been one of my frustrations of Starmer's Labour from the get go really. I know the 'captain hindsight' rhetoric was a bit corny but there's been an element of truth about that through his whole tenure. I hear so much from him about what the Tories have got wrong (lets be honest, there's plenty of examples), but not too much about what his party tends to do about it. As you say it'll be enough to get elected at the next election, maybe that's the tactic, I just hope at that point the 'yeah but the Tories' can stop and they prove effective at actually implementing positive change and bringing actionable ideas. Its more a hope than expectation though. |  | | |
| ITV Debate on 11:13 - Jun 5 with 1299 views | mutters |
| ITV Debate on 11:04 - Jun 5 by _clive_baker_ |
That's been one of my frustrations of Starmer's Labour from the get go really. I know the 'captain hindsight' rhetoric was a bit corny but there's been an element of truth about that through his whole tenure. I hear so much from him about what the Tories have got wrong (lets be honest, there's plenty of examples), but not too much about what his party tends to do about it. As you say it'll be enough to get elected at the next election, maybe that's the tactic, I just hope at that point the 'yeah but the Tories' can stop and they prove effective at actually implementing positive change and bringing actionable ideas. Its more a hope than expectation though. |
Your last sentence is wrong (not with you that you wrote it but the whole idea behind it). The parties should be out there telling us what they will do and how they will make a difference and improve people's lives. | |
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| ITV Debate on 11:17 - Jun 5 with 1285 views | _clive_baker_ |
| ITV Debate on 11:13 - Jun 5 by mutters |
Your last sentence is wrong (not with you that you wrote it but the whole idea behind it). The parties should be out there telling us what they will do and how they will make a difference and improve people's lives. |
They absolutely should, but I'm not seeing any evidence of it. I've not been canvassed by either on my doorstep for the first time since I've been old enough to vote, I've not heard much from the top about clear and demonstrable plans to tackle many of the issues we face. Starmer was presented with a few very direct questions and opportunities to provide that last night and every time fell back on the 'look at the last 14 years of Tory government'. It's valid, they need to be binned and in spectacular fashion, but we really need to see more of the why we should vote for you rather than the why we shouldn't vote for the alternative.
In truth I'm voting for neither, I'll vote Green again. | | | |
| ITV Debate on 11:33 - Jun 5 with 1234 views | itfcjoe |
| ITV Debate on 11:04 - Jun 5 by _clive_baker_ |
That's been one of my frustrations of Starmer's Labour from the get go really. I know the 'captain hindsight' rhetoric was a bit corny but there's been an element of truth about that through his whole tenure. I hear so much from him about what the Tories have got wrong (lets be honest, there's plenty of examples), but not too much about what his party tends to do about it. As you say it'll be enough to get elected at the next election, maybe that's the tactic, I just hope at that point the 'yeah but the Tories' can stop and they prove effective at actually implementing positive change and bringing actionable ideas. Its more a hope than expectation though. |
Ultimately the Labour parties 'job' is to get in power - whether that's by inspiring people to vote for them, or people not wanting to vote for the others it doesn't really matter.
As things stand they are doing their job, their ploy/strategy/tactics has worked superbly in conjunction with what the Tories have done.....that's really the nub of it.
They then have 5 years to find a way to stay in power, so will have to have a positive record to stand on at that point, and a vision - but they can't build that holistic package from opposition.
It frustrates people, but if this time in a month Starmer has a 100 seat majority then the end will have totally justified the means |  |
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| ITV Debate on 11:41 - Jun 5 with 1215 views | Blueschev |
| ITV Debate on 11:33 - Jun 5 by itfcjoe |
Ultimately the Labour parties 'job' is to get in power - whether that's by inspiring people to vote for them, or people not wanting to vote for the others it doesn't really matter.
As things stand they are doing their job, their ploy/strategy/tactics has worked superbly in conjunction with what the Tories have done.....that's really the nub of it.
They then have 5 years to find a way to stay in power, so will have to have a positive record to stand on at that point, and a vision - but they can't build that holistic package from opposition.
It frustrates people, but if this time in a month Starmer has a 100 seat majority then the end will have totally justified the means |
I think Labour would do well to remember what happened to May's 20 point lead in the polls once the election campaign started in 2017. She offered very little other than not being Corbyn and got punished for it.
I'm not convinced that this election will be quite the landslide predicted. The public seem to be completely sick of this government, but I'm yet to hear any enthusiasm for Starmer and Labour at all. Closet Tories and swing voters may still stick with what we have if they feel they're not really being offered an alternative. |  | | |
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| ITV Debate on 12:00 - Jun 5 with 1186 views | J2BLUE |
I think Starmer's defence would be that when he was asked directly about private healthcare the presenter did not say for life saving treatment like she did originally.
Anyone claiming they would let their family member die rather than use private healthcare out of principle (like on this thread) is lying. |  |
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| ITV Debate on 12:03 - Jun 5 with 1165 views | _clive_baker_ |
| ITV Debate on 11:33 - Jun 5 by itfcjoe |
Ultimately the Labour parties 'job' is to get in power - whether that's by inspiring people to vote for them, or people not wanting to vote for the others it doesn't really matter.
As things stand they are doing their job, their ploy/strategy/tactics has worked superbly in conjunction with what the Tories have done.....that's really the nub of it.
They then have 5 years to find a way to stay in power, so will have to have a positive record to stand on at that point, and a vision - but they can't build that holistic package from opposition.
It frustrates people, but if this time in a month Starmer has a 100 seat majority then the end will have totally justified the means |
I get it, given the polls they don't really need to do much from here on in to win an overwhelming majority. It doesn't evoke a huge amount of confidence though. It's still an opportunity to turn the screw with those on the fence or build a compelling case to increase sentiment in the final month. Last nights debate was p1ss poor. | | | |
| ITV Debate on 12:07 - Jun 5 with 1140 views | Pinewoodblue |
| ITV Debate on 11:41 - Jun 5 by Blueschev |
I think Labour would do well to remember what happened to May's 20 point lead in the polls once the election campaign started in 2017. She offered very little other than not being Corbyn and got punished for it.
I'm not convinced that this election will be quite the landslide predicted. The public seem to be completely sick of this government, but I'm yet to hear any enthusiasm for Starmer and Labour at all. Closet Tories and swing voters may still stick with what we have if they feel they're not really being offered an alternative. |
So unreal when the only real alternative so far offered comes from the right, and not the left.
Reform can do so much damaged to an already beaten Conservative Party. Have seen suggestions of less than 100 Conservative MPs, and even Lib Dems being close to being the official opposition.
Predict a reduced turnout with many Tories not bothering to vote. | |
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| ITV Debate on 12:08 - Jun 5 with 1135 views | leitrimblue |
| ITV Debate on 12:00 - Jun 5 by J2BLUE |
I think Starmer's defence would be that when he was asked directly about private healthcare the presenter did not say for life saving treatment like she did originally.
Anyone claiming they would let their family member die rather than use private healthcare out of principle (like on this thread) is lying. |
Does family member stretch to mother in laws? Asking for a friend obviously |  | | |
| ITV Debate on 12:08 - Jun 5 with 1130 views | J2BLUE |
| ITV Debate on 12:03 - Jun 5 by _clive_baker_ |
I get it, given the polls they don't really need to do much from here on in to win an overwhelming majority. It doesn't evoke a huge amount of confidence though. It's still an opportunity to turn the screw with those on the fence or build a compelling case to increase sentiment in the final month. Last nights debate was p1ss poor. |
They are being projected over 400 seats. Gambling from here only goes one way. There's no benefit to having an extra 10 seats when you have a majority that high being predicted. | |
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| ITV Debate on 12:12 - Jun 5 with 1102 views | _clive_baker_ |
| ITV Debate on 12:08 - Jun 5 by J2BLUE |
They are being projected over 400 seats. Gambling from here only goes one way. There's no benefit to having an extra 10 seats when you have a majority that high being predicted. |
I don't think its a gamble to demonstrate and convey what your party intends to do about some of the serious issues that we face as a country and society. I would argue its more of a gamble to avoid answering such questions and come across as meek and spineless, when most people are sat there wanting to see proper leadership for the first time in years. | | | |
| ITV Debate on 12:21 - Jun 5 with 1053 views | mutters |
| ITV Debate on 12:12 - Jun 5 by _clive_baker_ |
I don't think its a gamble to demonstrate and convey what your party intends to do about some of the serious issues that we face as a country and society. I would argue its more of a gamble to avoid answering such questions and come across as meek and spineless, when most people are sat there wanting to see proper leadership for the first time in years. |
Completely agree, however, they are playing the game. They know unless they completely mess it up they are going to form the next government. The game they are playing at the moment won't get my vote but there will be enough to get them over the line.
Still doesn't answer the question of what they are about. Guess we will find out over the next 5 years. | |
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| ITV Debate on 12:22 - Jun 5 with 1048 views | J2BLUE |
| ITV Debate on 12:12 - Jun 5 by _clive_baker_ |
I don't think its a gamble to demonstrate and convey what your party intends to do about some of the serious issues that we face as a country and society. I would argue its more of a gamble to avoid answering such questions and come across as meek and spineless, when most people are sat there wanting to see proper leadership for the first time in years. |
The projected majority is big enough to do anything he wants.
After last night, last time I looked 51% of people thought Sunak 'won' which is laughable really. I considered it a 0-0 draw with a terrible ref.
If you just look at the numbers there is no incentive for Starmer to gamble. | |
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| ITV Debate on 12:26 - Jun 5 with 1027 views | Blueschev |
| ITV Debate on 12:22 - Jun 5 by J2BLUE |
The projected majority is big enough to do anything he wants.
After last night, last time I looked 51% of people thought Sunak 'won' which is laughable really. I considered it a 0-0 draw with a terrible ref.
If you just look at the numbers there is no incentive for Starmer to gamble. |
It's a sad indictment of the state of British politics when clearly defining your goals when in government is seen as gambling. | | | |
| ITV Debate on 12:28 - Jun 5 with 1020 views | StokieBlue |
Sunak is looking pretty dubious today with the publishing of the letter from the Treasury saying they had no part in calculating the 38m figure and that ministers shouldn't promote the number as calculated by them and contained data from partisan advisors.
I see the Tories are sticking to it though and the number is being repeated at every chance I assume to get it into the minds of people regardless of accuracy.
SB |  | | |
| ITV Debate on 12:39 - Jun 5 with 975 views | _clive_baker_ |
| ITV Debate on 12:22 - Jun 5 by J2BLUE |
The projected majority is big enough to do anything he wants.
After last night, last time I looked 51% of people thought Sunak 'won' which is laughable really. I considered it a 0-0 draw with a terrible ref.
If you just look at the numbers there is no incentive for Starmer to gamble. |
51% thinking Sunak won doesn't sound a lot, but it's quite significant when you consider (based on polls) the majority of those watching were / are far more likely to vote for Starmer, so it's not 51% / 49% from a 50:50 base. | | | |
| ITV Debate on 12:40 - Jun 5 with 970 views | GlasgowBlue |
| ITV Debate on 11:41 - Jun 5 by Blueschev |
I think Labour would do well to remember what happened to May's 20 point lead in the polls once the election campaign started in 2017. She offered very little other than not being Corbyn and got punished for it.
I'm not convinced that this election will be quite the landslide predicted. The public seem to be completely sick of this government, but I'm yet to hear any enthusiasm for Starmer and Labour at all. Closet Tories and swing voters may still stick with what we have if they feel they're not really being offered an alternative. |
May got punished for her social care proposal that would have seen most of her core support losing out on inheriting their parents homes. So you could say she offered too much. | |
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| ITV Debate on 12:47 - Jun 5 with 940 views | GlasgowBlue |
| ITV Debate on 12:22 - Jun 5 by J2BLUE |
The projected majority is big enough to do anything he wants.
After last night, last time I looked 51% of people thought Sunak 'won' which is laughable really. I considered it a 0-0 draw with a terrible ref.
If you just look at the numbers there is no incentive for Starmer to gamble. |
It was 51/49 in favour of Sunak. When you consider how far behind Starmer he is in the polls and a lot of peoples confirmation bias, I'd say it was a far better lead than the poll showed.
The debates won't win the election and I get Starmer's strategy but he came across as very dull and evasive whereas Sunak had some piss and vinegar about him. | |
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| ITV Debate on 12:51 - Jun 5 with 920 views | J2BLUE |
| ITV Debate on 12:26 - Jun 5 by Blueschev |
It's a sad indictment of the state of British politics when clearly defining your goals when in government is seen as gambling. |
I don't disagree but it's in large part due to how terrible the Tories are. Labour are going to get a big majority for simply not being the Tories. | |
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| ITV Debate on 12:52 - Jun 5 with 910 views | J2BLUE |
| ITV Debate on 12:47 - Jun 5 by GlasgowBlue |
It was 51/49 in favour of Sunak. When you consider how far behind Starmer he is in the polls and a lot of peoples confirmation bias, I'd say it was a far better lead than the poll showed.
The debates won't win the election and I get Starmer's strategy but he came across as very dull and evasive whereas Sunak had some piss and vinegar about him. |
I don't disagree with that. | |
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| ITV Debate on 12:54 - Jun 5 with 896 views | GlasgowBlue |
| ITV Debate on 12:03 - Jun 5 by _clive_baker_ |
I get it, given the polls they don't really need to do much from here on in to win an overwhelming majority. It doesn't evoke a huge amount of confidence though. It's still an opportunity to turn the screw with those on the fence or build a compelling case to increase sentiment in the final month. Last nights debate was p1ss poor. |
The one improvement Labour will bring is some decency and honesty back into government. Which has been severely lacking since Johnson took over.
They'll have a big enough majority that can't be overturned in one term, so we are looking at a minimum of ten years and if the economy is in decent shape they can do more in that second term.
We just need sensible and competent. | |
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| ITV Debate on 12:59 - Jun 5 with 880 views | Ryorry |
As a LP member & Starmer supporter (I back the team no matter who manages it) I was disappointed & quite worried by last night, think complacency is a danger. It was like watching a team prepared by Paul Hirst vs. a dirty streetfighting one prepared by Neil Warnock.
Pointless complaining about the format, it's what *floating* voters, waverers, or politically homeless take away with them that matters - and what many in those categories will have as earworms now is that Labour would take £2K from them.
The old dirty tactic of repeating the same short phrase multiple times, however untrue it might be, is, sadly, a vote-winner. Starmer needed to arrow a refutation of it in every time it was parroted, in the first 10 secs before being interrupted, but failed to do so (resulting in me shouting at the TV). He did apparently go on to it later, but by that point I'd had to leave the room for a few minutes, as I imagine plenty of others had done too, whether by necessity or choice.
I find it absolutely shocking that Labour don't yet have a Manifesto out - yes 4th July announcement was something of a surprise by the tories, but you'd have thought that a competent Labour organisation would have draft/s lined up near-ready to go.
(The Tories do have one out - thankfully it's a pathetic epic fail). For those who want first sight - https://labour.org.uk/updates/stories/labour-manifesto-2024-sign-up/
I breathed a sigh of relief when the question on National Service came up last night, as the idea was met with derision & swung things back Starmer's way. He also gave a good answer to the ECHR question, which went down well with the audience. |  |
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